GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: SagaciousKJB on September 02, 2014, 06:31:15 AM
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Well, my friend John, David, Shannon and I were all hanging out when Shannon asks about my Kodiak because she noticed it was a .22 caliber. After I explained she said, "Oh so it's not like a real gun," and David says off-the-cuff, "No that thing would just give you a bruise." I explained to him that actually it's estimated that it might penetrate up to 4" and he insisted, "Yeah, but it would just hit a rib or something."
Now I know there's a high probability he was just being facetious, but I couldn't convince him that if I shot him point blank in the chest with it, that it would probably kill him or at least seriously ruin his week. He was convinced that it would basically break the skin, maybe go pretty deep but he didn't seem to think the likelihood of a fatal or even significant injury was very high. My honest opinion? If you didn't puncture a lung or give yourself a sucking chest wound, you'd still probably need surgery for tissue damage. Like being stabbed with an ice pick or something.
I may be over-reacting, but I want him to respect the power the rifle really has. People not having proper respect for guns is how I believe accidents happen. Maybe if I thaw out a chicken breast and shoot a pellet clean-through it that will convince him? Perhaps a wing to throw some bone in there? I mean what first gave you guys a healthy dose of respect for your airgun's power?
Funny thing is he's not one of those types to call a .22lr a pea-shooter, he said once "A gun is a gun it's going to mess you up." But apparently if it's an air rifle, that doesn't count. I may be investing too much time and thought into this but I don't even want to let him touch it until I know he knows he could kill someone with it.
In fact I probably never will let him shoot it... This is a guy that accidentally shot my Daisy 880 into my ceiling the very first time I handed it to him. Oddly enough he was way more cautious when he shot my .22lr, so for him in particular I see a very troubling lack of concern for how safely he should handle airguns.
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Go to utube and show him the aftermath of some of these pea shooters. David
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Just like I know better to discuss politics with my MIL, you should avoid the subject of air guns and firearms with your friend and just accept that people have differing opinions, right or wrong. Trying to prove a point will most likely only damage an otherwise good friendship.
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A pellet rifle can be just as deadly as a firearm. In New Zealand, three years ago a bank robber shot two police officers and killed them with a pellet rifle. New Zealand band air rifles and anyone who wants to own one now has to get a special permit now. So just be clear that a pellet gun or rifle can be just as deadly as a fire arm.
Gene
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Just show him some of the pictures and videos from the hunting gate.
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for a power reference, I had our range owner shoot a full gallon milk jug of water with his 880 I gave him, he was suprised that it went through it with no problems, in and out...
Maybe try a whole raw thawed chicken.
They aren't that expensive..
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In any case, FPE is what matters. I'm sure there's a list somewhere about "how many FP does what" on the human body... Then find out how many FPE your rifle is shooting... It kinda puts things into perspective. Failing that, just be patient with him. Unfortunately a lot of people these days talk like they know something, when in fact they know nothing.
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the guy's a closet jerk....his mine's bigger than yours attitude will get some one else hurt
for the sake of God and all those around him, don't ever let him handle an airgun...he'll shoot somebody thinking he's just gonna get their attention and start a public relations nightmare
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Some people, you are just wasting your time. If they want to believe something, they will, and trying to convince them otherwise is an exercise in frustration. Just be wary of where this individual points your air guns.
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;D Rather than explaining with words only go to the nearest grocery store and buy a 25 lb unfrozen turkey then shoot through from the side and aim for a leg bone if the results do not convince him of the actual capabilities of a modern Air rifle. if that does not open his eyes and Brain to the danger of unsafe behavior with AG's nothing will . At that point the best course of action is to not discuss or shoot AG's when he is around
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“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
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I would leave it at they are just as deadly as pb's and leave it at that.
there are people who think they know it all and cannot be convinced otherwise. I tend to keep some distance between them.
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No disrespect intended, but doesn't the bible mention the dangers of fools not listening to wise counsel??? Seems that your attempts to give wise counsel to this fool only fell on deaf ears. I think many in our government suffer from this fatal disease. You can't win this argument because it's kinda like arguing with a drunk. Only worse because he was sober.
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“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
Very, very true.
Here is another one. It's an insensitive analogy, but there is truth in it. Please allow me to "Pre" apologize if this offends anyone:-)
"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if I win... I'm still..."retarded"."
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It's an argument you'll probably never win because your opponent's mind is already made up with preconceived erroneous notions.
Airguns can and do kill from time to time. Is a person killed with an airgun any less dead than one killed with a powder burner?
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I have freinds that drink way too much and I don't drink with them. I have freinds that ride way too fast and wreckless, I don't ride with them. If this was my freind..... I probably wouldn't shoot airguns with him.
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::) Nope dead is dead and it makes no difference whether dumb assumptions lead to the "ACCIDENT".
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Let me get this straight; this IS the guy who shot one of your guns into the ceiling when you handed it to him?!?!?!?
Why are you even trying to discuss the power of an airgun with him? Get him away from all your guns and refuse to discuss them with him. Let him be your friend based on other commonalities than YOUR guns. I have lots of friends but I have enough discernment to know that some of my friends should never come into contact with MY guns just because of their knowledge and attitudes toward guns. That doesn't make them any less my friends, it's just that my guns are not the basis for our friendship. Look elsewhere for gun-based friendships.
Another thought: if you have to prove something to him, you have other problems in your friendship.
just my thoughts.
joe
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The bottom line is common sense would tell you it's extremely dangerous, as well as all the warning labels.
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I remember reading about 6 months ago in the local paper about a man who "accidentally" fatally shot his wife with a BB gun. Wasn't the fpe that killed her but the penetration of the BB into her lung. This was in an urban area too where hospitals are within 10 min. My point being it doesn't take a "magnum springer" or PCP to collapse a lung or hit the heart. Always shoot safely.
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I agree that arguing the point with a fool will go nowhere, but for your own vindication - Google "airgun accidents" or "air rifle accidents" or "BB gun accidents" and you will find plenty of cases to support your (correct) viewpoint.
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Sounds to me like he was playing the tough guy role to impress the lady friend who was present.
Belittling you and your accomplishments to make himself look better perhaps?
I once had a guy tell me, with a straight face and he was dead sober, that if I was to shoot at him from 600 yards with a 30-06, he could jump aside and not get hit as long as he had a line of sight to my firing position!! ::)
I tried to convince him that I believed him utterly, and that we needed to demonstrate the principle for the non believers.......................... ;)
He was spouting off to impress a friends daughter with his manly prowess, and it didn't work.
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If one argues with anything that has "Gun" in it's name?
They are asking for trouble and show no respect of the possible damages.
The Water Guns you can buy can cause damages to your eyes if used wrong!
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Belittling you and your accomplishments to make himself look better perhaps?
How does an opinion on the power of an airgun belittle another person or their accomplishments?
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Sorry. Your so called friend is a dumb-^&*. Anybody that puts their finger across the trigger when handed any type of gun is ignorant, and has no business having one in his hands. As for his stupid assumptions and assertation's that an air rifle cannot be used as a lethal weapon on any animal including a human is just showing his ignorance to all those around him. When he shot a hole in your ceiling with a BB gun, be thankful it didn't richochet and hit anyone present. Or even worse, it could have been in the direction of a wall instead and possibly struck an innocent bystandard. Just think of that scenario with a magnum rifle like an RX springer or a big bore career pcp. Not a pretty picture. I hope you share this thread with your friend so he might understand just how stupid he is for what he said and for his unacceptable behavior.
On a side note, I hope you've learned something from this experience. Never hand a cocked and loaded weapon to anyone,....ever. The next time it might be you and not the ceiling. Not Cool.
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Simple! Go to the store, and buy a section of ribs and a chicken. Shoot through the ribs and into the chicken. With a Kodiak, it's likely to go through both.
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i see no reason to be insulting the guy , he's just uninformed . most of us here are old enough to know that you can't believe everything people tell you or that just because somewhere on the internet it says something is or isn't true doesn't mean it's so . showing him the power of modern air guns so he can see with his own eyes will convince him . some great suggestions here on how to do that . if there's still any question in his mind show him news article about folks being killed by airguns ..... . explaining how you can shoot them in areas where a "real gun" would surely put you in jail may even spark his interest and get you a new air shootin buddy :)
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Simple! Go to the store, and buy a section of ribs and a chicken. Shoot through the ribs and into the chicken. With a Kodiak, it's likely to go through both.
if I brought some ribs and chicken and sombody shot it to see how deep it went I'm inclined to see how deep my foot would go.*LOL*
shooting good bar-b-que food. not hardly, I'll let'em believe what he wants to believe while I'm grilling.*L*
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Politically speaking, I don't like to see gun and airgun in the same sentence. I like being left alone in my back yard. It's along drive to the range.
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Belittling you and your accomplishments to make himself look better perhaps?
How does an opinion on the power of an airgun belittle another person or their accomplishments?
His opinion was based on ignorance, therefore it was not an opinion, but inane rambling being passed of as information.
be·lit·tle
/biˈlitl/
verb
gerund or present participle: belittling
make (someone or something) seem unimportant.
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Politically speaking, I don't like to see gun and airgun in the same sentence. I like being left alone in my back yard. It's along drive to the range.
I agree. Seems many want it both ways. No one wants airguns to be real guns when it comes to laws and classifications. But in an argument like this they are the same.
I understand the argument and danger of all guns but there is a big difference.
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His opinion was based on ignorance, therefore it was not an opinion, but inane rambling being passed of as information.
be·lit·tle
/biˈlitl/
verb
gerund or present participle: belittling
make (someone or something) seem unimportant.
I know the definition. I guess I'm just not so sensitive that I'd think an opposing opinion is belittling to me or my accomplishments. To each their own.
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who cares about insult and belittling? this dudes a window licking danger to all around him. run away and don't be shy Santa Claus can't bring you an eye...or stop a law suit
even my cousin's gun destroying nightmare (I still want to know how he bent the cocking lever on my Titan)23 year old son treats all projectile weapons with extreme safety in mind....absolutely no concern for preservation of the gun in any form, but he'll never hurt anything via negligent discharge...
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I know the definition. I guess I'm just not so sensitive that I'd think an opposing opinion is belittling to me or my accomplishments. To each their own.
It wasn't an opinion, it was balderdash passed off as fact or common knowledge.
Seek ye first to understand, then to be understood.
To be thought of as ignorant is nothing, to open ones mouth and demonstrate ignorance is something else entirely.
Lets go find us an airgun discussion to join, what say ye my friend?? ;)
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I know the definition. I guess I'm just not so sensitive that I'd think an opposing opinion is belittling to me or my accomplishments. To each their own.
It wasn't an opinion, it was balderdash passed off as fact or common knowledge.
Seek ye first to understand, then to be understood.
To be thought of as ignorant is nothing, to open ones mouth and demonstrate ignorance is something else entirely.
Lets go find us an airgun discussion to join, what say ye my friend?? ;)
Hahahaha....
That takes me back to something my father used to say. He'd say it like this. "Sometimes it's best to keep your mouth shut and be though a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".
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I was referring to the airgun naysayer, I WAS NOT referring to Gresh...............
Clarification provided so as to prevent the possibility of the content of my last post being misconstrued.
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No big deal and I apologize for taking this off topic. I was just saying an opposing opinion or even blatantly wrong opposing information would not belittle me or my accomplishments. Nor would I think that is the intent of the other person. The OP even said he didn't know if the guy was serious or not. It seemed like like a goofy exchange rather than a true debate to get any real information.
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Get a 400 fps air soft gun and shoot him and then ask him if he wants to get hit by a chunk of lead traveling twice as fast.
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I would hate for airguns to be **controlled** like pb's, and IMO sometimes public forum conversations like this might fall upon the WRONG eyes/ears, and draw UNWANTED attention to the subject, ie; MORE UNNECESSARY LAWS. Just little worry of mine for our beloved sport. Bottom line anything that spits lead is dangerous... Then again that's just my opinion. " No offense intended towards anyone "
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No big deal and I apologize for taking this off topic. I was just saying an opposing opinion or even blatantly wrong opposing information would not belittle me or my accomplishments. Nor would I think that is the intent of the other person. The OP even said he didn't know if the guy was serious or not. It seemed like like a goofy exchange rather than a true debate to get any real information.
Oh yeah he wasn't too serious, except when I said, "Well if you're so sure lemme shoot you with it," and he says, "Okay, so long as I can kick you in the #&%@ afterward." Haha It was in my attempt to explain to him that he would probably be unable to do so that I felt he didn't have an appreciation for how potentially lethal the airgun really was--but as others have said he probably could have just been putting tongue in cheek, and it was far from a real serious disbelief or argument and just silly machismo.
Mostly he's just a seeing is believing kind of guy, visual learner or whatever. I can quote all sorts of numbers or news stories, but pretty sure the second he saw for himself how powerful it was he'd change his tune in kind of a "Why didn't you tell me!?" kind of way. And really it's not so much for me, but for him--he never even liked handling my powder burners because they made him feel uncomfortable. Meanwhile he's got this very false sense of security in thinking "Well that's not necessarily a toy, but it's nothing close to a firearm."
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Bottom line.... take a 1" thick piece of pine and shoot it at 10'. When it passes clear thru and he is still not a beleiver, then it is quite possible that you may be able to shoot him in the head with no affect.
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I would not like to get hit with a .22 pellet traveling at 700fps. Ask your friend if he would.
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Bottom line.... take a 1" thick piece of pine and shoot it at 10'. When it passes clear thru and he is still not a beleiver, then it is quite possible that you may be able to shoot him in the head with no affect.
I "dang" near pee'd my pants when I read this!!! And I spilled my coffee. Good one:-)
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Simple! Go to the store, and buy a section of ribs and a chicken. Shoot through the ribs and into the chicken. With a Kodiak, it's likely to go through both.
if I brought some ribs and chicken and sombody shot it to see how deep it went I'm inclined to see how deep my foot would go.*LOL*
shooting good bar-b-que food. not hardly, I'll let'em believe what he wants to believe while I'm grilling.*L*
You can still grill them after you shoot them! That's what we do with small game. ;D
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True Doug, True :D
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Bottom line.... take a 1" thick piece of pine and shoot it at 10'. When it passes clear thru and he is still not a beleiver, then it is quite possible that you may be able to shoot him in the head with no affect.
HA!!!