GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Booger on September 01, 2014, 06:52:39 PM
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Many times questions come up on which gun should I get. So I thought I would do an apples to apples to oranges comparison as I see it. Many people look at things in a whole different light. I wish my R11/HW98 was tuned then I could plug in better numbers. So Joe just send my your HW98 and I can update my excel work sheet. :) I really would like to compare them both tuned and untuned, but that is for another day after I hit the lottery.
TX200 .22 HW97K .22 R11/HW98 .177
Full Tune Full Tune Untuned
Trigger 1 2 3
Cocking Effort 1 3 2
Shot Cycle 2 1 3
Accuracy * 1 1 1
Shouldering 3 2 1
Power ** 1 2 3
Loudness * 1 1 3
Loading *** 3 1 1
Grip **** 3 1 1
Total 16 14 18
Average 1.78 1.56 2.00
* No clear winner
** FPE 16.82 16.27 14.9
*** HW breech is wider Crosman tend to fit tight in the TX
**** I have small hands
Edit:
I tried to straighten these a little for you.
-Niko
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well Booger.. you got into some depth there, looks good can you pass along where you get your air gun pills, i think maybe i may need a prescription too....have fun, Joe P will not say where he gets his, if i had to guess they are not covered under Blue Cross.....LOL
Chet
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I just wish I could make it neater, Excel does not copy and paste well.
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;D Jesse what spring kit in your .22 TX200 I'm getting between 780 and 810 with the Vortek SHO kit in mine
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;D Jesse what spring kit in your .22 TX200 I'm getting between 780 and 810 with the Vortek SHO kit in mine
A worn out Maccari, I am sending my rifle off to be tuned after I go to my first Field Target match 9-13-14. I plan on bringing all three springers. Good thing I will not be competing. :)
Edit: My TX200 has lost about 50FPS in 40,000 shots.
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so I guess 17 fpe is not bad for the .22 TX200
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so I guess 17 fpe is not bad for the .22 TX200
It is not about power, but accuracy. I really wish I could have posted this in an Excel format. The questions always arise about which rifle should I get and I think this would answer a lot of questions and be right there in one place with one person's opinion. For example I have small hands & Motorhead (Scott) has large hands, so that makes a difference. Kinda like the compare items at Pyramyd Air.
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;D I agree my concern is that the TX has enough power to take down a muskrat humanely. My in-laws have a small pond behind their home and presently the muskrats are becoming more than just a mild nuisance. Long story short my father in-law needs something fairly quiet and powerful enough to take down a muskrat or 5 with the 13.43gr JSB's accuracy is dime size groups at 25 yards and I don't think the kit is fully broken in
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;D I agree my concern is that the TX has enough to take down a muskrat humanely. My in-laws has a small pond behind their home and presently the muskrats are becoming more than just a mild nuisance. Long story short my father in-law needs something fairly quiet and powerful enough to take down a muskrat or 5
I just purchased another .25 MROD (I regret selling my first). Get him an MROD .25 I hit a pigeon in the head at 105 yards, granted it was a benched shot. For accuracy PCP is the way to go, for pure fun and pleasure I really enjoy my UK & German spring piston rifles. If noise is not a factor the Disco is a nice choice, mine really like the 21 grain H&N Barracuda pellets. I like it so much that I am considering pulling it out of the Classifieds.
Well that is my opinion, you might see things differently.
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::) ::) I really like my father in-law but I can't afford to set him up with a complete PCP rig with a tank and all the peripherals and a pump is not an option ha has a bad shoulder. I figure the TX is easy to cock and if need be he can rest it against his thigh then use 2 hands to complete the cocking of the rifle like I do with my D460
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::) ::) I really like my father in-law but I can't afford to set him up with a complete PCP rig with a tank and all the peripherals and a pump is not an option ha has a bad shoulder. I figure the TX is easy to cock and if need be he can rest it against his thigh then use 2 hands to complete the cocking of the rifle like I do with my D460
I totally understand, while I love my Condor you sold me I think the MROD is slightly more accurate. When you go to the dark side your money runs through your fingers like water, but after a big tank it is really nice. You should really consider R11/HW98 for him, I love mine. With just a lube job I think he would like it better than a TX or 97K. The adjustable stock is so nice.
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::) ::) I really like my father in-law but I can't afford to set him up with a complete PCP rig with a tank and all the peripherals and a pump is not an option ha has a bad shoulder. I figure the TX is easy to cock and if need be he can rest it against his thigh then use 2 hands to complete the cocking of the rifle like I do with my D460
I totally understand, while I love my Condor you sold me I think the MROD is slightly more accurate. When you go to the dark side your money runs through your fingers like water, but after a big tank it is really nice. You should really consider R11/HW98 for him, I love mine. With just a lube job I think he would like it better than a TX or 97K. The adjustable stock is so nice.
Well the only way he gets an HW98 is if I can work a trade with someone on here that is dying for a very nice TX200 MK III with a Vortek SHO kit installed ;D ;D ;D ;)
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If I could afford a tank and fill set up I would let him have the Synthetic Marauder .25 that thing is a tack driver to 100 yards when there is no wind
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::) ::) I really like my father in-law but I can't afford to set him up with a complete PCP rig with a tank and all the peripherals and a pump is not an option ha has a bad shoulder. I figure the TX is easy to cock and if need be he can rest it against his thigh then use 2 hands to complete the cocking of the rifle like I do with my D460
I totally understand, while I love my Condor you sold me I think the MROD is slightly more accurate. When you go to the dark side your money runs through your fingers like water, but after a big tank it is really nice. You should really consider R11/HW98 for him, I love mine. With just a lube job I think he would like it better than a TX or 97K. The adjustable stock is so nice.
Well the only way he gets an HW98 is if I can work a trade with someone on here that is dying for a very nice TX200 MK III with a Vortek SHO kit installed ;D ;D ;D ;)
That would not be me. My son will have to pry it from my hands after I am dead and gone, and he still may not be able to accomplish that feat. ;)
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Good write-up Boog. It took me a minute to figure out the lower the better. What had me confused is that I thought the 97 would be harder to cock than the TX. I guess the tune makes a big difference. I keep going back and forth between the 97 and the AA then someone throws in the LGU. I figure about the time I get my pocket change collected for one, the Wather will be old news and imported here.
Thanks again!
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Good write-up Boog. It took me a minute to figure out the lower the better. What had me confused is that I thought the 97 would be harder to cock than the TX. I guess the tune makes a big difference. I keep going back and forth between the 97 and the AA then someone throws in the LGU. I figure about the time I get my pocket change collected for one, the Wather will be old news and imported here.
Thanks again!
The 97 is harder to cock, I thought the 98 would be, but it seems easier. The TX is easiest and why I gave it a 1.
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I'm all confused. I see that now. At silver aged that is a consideration. Thanks for setting me straight.
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I'm all confused. I see that now. At silver aged that is a consideration. Thanks for setting me straight.
Do not discount the R11/HW98 it is easy to cock and loading pellets is easier too. The adjustable stock can not be over rated as well. Just to muddy the waters a little. :) To muddy them more ask Joe P or anyone else who have shot all three.
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Maybe it's a bit premature but I want away from the inconsistencies of the break barrel design. I just don't see how a break barrel can be as consistently accurate as a fixed. Since this will be my primary home defense weapon (chipmunks) it will seldom ever go any further than the lawn chair on my front porch so weight isn't an issue. For scouting missions, I'll keep my Lightweight Ruger.
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Maybe it's a bit premature but I want away from the inconsistencies of the break barrel design. I just don't see how a break barrel can be as consistently accurate as a fixed. Since this will be my primary home defense weapon (chipmunks) it will seldom ever go any further than the lawn chair on my front porch so weight isn't an issue. For scouting missions, I'll keep my Lightweight Ruger.
It is my opinion and mine only that the R11 hangs in there with both of the other rifles mentioned. If you ever get a chance to shoot one you might see it the same way I do. I have also found that confidence in a rifle helps accuracy. ;)
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Jesse, I have to ask; did the 97 or the TX scratch that itch? I have a suspicion that after I buy that nearly thousand dollar walnut Prosport I'll still be wanting something else. Doctor? Is it too late for me? Do I have it bad Doctor?
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Jesse, I have to ask; did the 97 or the TX scratch that itch? I have a suspicion that after I buy that nearly thousand dollar walnut Prosport I'll still be wanting something else. Doctor? Is it too late for me? Do I have it bad Doctor?
;) Once you start down the path the slope keeps getting steeper and slipperier. then the decisions have to be made. Which to sell to keep from becoming overloaded with excess equipment I own 4 springers and am considering selling off 2 just can't decide which 2 to sell ::) I like them all and all have different personalities
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Jesse, I have to ask; did the 97 or the TX scratch that itch? I have a suspicion that after I buy that nearly thousand dollar walnut Prosport I'll still be wanting something else. Doctor? Is it too late for me? Do I have it bad Doctor?
;) Once you start down the path the slope keeps getting steeper and slipperier. then the decisions have to be made. Which to sell to keep from becoming overloaded with excess equipment I own 4 springers and am considering selling off 2 just can't decide which 2 to sell ::) I like them all and all have different personalities
It is a viscous circle, I sell 2 to get my collection down and turn around and buy 3. Then sometimes I regret selling one and buy another one just like it.
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Oh, I understand all too well. I also have a thing for Sako bolt action rifles and O/U shotguns.
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Oh, I understand all too well. I also have a thing for Sako bolt action rifles and O/U shotguns.
:( Sold a Remington 1100 12 gauge 35 years ago and still regret that decision to this day
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Maybe it's a bit premature but I want away from the inconsistencies of the break barrel design. I just don't see how a break barrel can be as consistently accurate as a fixed. Since this will be my primary home defense weapon (chipmunks) it will seldom ever go any further than the lawn chair on my front porch so weight isn't an issue. For scouting missions, I'll keep my Lightweight Ruger.
I have all 3 plus a Pro Sport all in 177.
I was totally blown away by the 98. No lock up issues whatsoever after well over 27,000 rounds.
It is just as accurate as all my fixed barrels and built like a tank!
I have shot my tightest groups with her and taken squirrels out to 65 yards with head shots.
I have TOTAL confidence with it!!
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I will agree with Booger that the R11 will hang in there, accuracy wise, with any of the very best spring guns. I also find the R11 much easier to cock than the TX200. I believe this is the fact it is a brake barrel. The barrel is also a heavy bull barrel and I think the weight of it helps when cocking. Just does some of the work for you. For the money I would probably choose the TX as I think it is a nicer gun (just a little assuming a Beach stock) for the cheaper price. Unfourtunately R11's aren't cheap. Great rifle though, and if you choose it over a TX or 97 you have nothing to be concerned about. The R11 was my first real air rifle as an adult and I still have it. It still shoots great. I may very well have been better off stopping with the R11 but you have to try other things to realize that. It's just one of those rifles, once you shoot a bunch and is broke in, that you gain confidence in and shoot very well. To date mine has never been tuned or taken apart, not even has the stock been removed. Just the trigger adjusted.
Though I do not own a 97 I have shot a few and that is not the same thing. They seem to be a great rifle but I can only compare the 2 out of 3 listed that I own. You have to own a gun to really compare.
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;) ;D Sharky it doesn't matter what you are shooting you raise the bar for all us lesser mortals ;D ;D :P but now I have a PCP that promises to make the Synthetic Marauder .25 look like 3rd string QB. If it lives up to the promise of tonight at longer distance this will be the all time best reach out and ring the bell annoyingly rifle yet . This beauty is stacking 5 at a time and I did a tight 10 shot group that was maybe .30" at 10 yards .
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Can't wait to fondle your new girl Don!!!
;D
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Many times questions come up on which gun should I get. So I thought I would do an apples to apples to oranges comparison as I see it. Many people look at things in a whole different light. I wish my R11/HW98 was tuned then I could plug in better numbers. So Joe just send my your HW98 and I can update my excel work sheet. :) I really would like to compare them both tuned and untuned, but that is for another day after I hit the lottery.
TX200 .22 HW97K .22 R11/HW98 .177
Full Tune Full Tune Untuned
Trigger 1 2 3
Cocking Effort 1 3 2
Shot Cycle 2 1 3
Accuracy * 1 1 1
Shouldering 3 2 1
Power ** 1 2 3
Loudness * 1 1 3
Loading *** 3 1 1
Grip **** 3 1 1
Total 16 14 18
Average 1.78 1.56 2.00
* No clear winner
** FPE 16.82 16.27 14.9
*** HW breech is wider Crosman tend to fit tight in the TX
**** I have small hands
Edit:
I tried to straighten these a little for you.
-Niko
Nice comparison !
So obviously the HW97 is the winner ? But is that also according to your "overall feel factor" though ?
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Many times questions come up on which gun should I get. So I thought I would do an apples to apples to oranges comparison as I see it. Many people look at things in a whole different light. I wish my R11/HW98 was tuned then I could plug in better numbers. So Joe just send my your HW98 and I can update my excel work sheet. :) I really would like to compare them both tuned and untuned, but that is for another day after I hit the lottery.
TX200 .22 HW97K .22 R11/HW98 .177
Full Tune Full Tune Untuned
Trigger 1 2 3
Cocking Effort 1 3 2
Shot Cycle 2 1 3
Accuracy * 1 1 1
Shouldering 3 2 1
Power ** 1 2 3
Loudness * 1 1 3
Loading *** 3 1 1
Grip **** 3 1 1
Total 16 14 18
Average 1.78 1.56 2.00
* No clear winner
** FPE 16.82 16.27 14.9
*** HW breech is wider Crosman tend to fit tight in the TX
**** I have small hands
Edit:
I tried to straighten these a little for you.
-Niko
Nice comparison !
So obviously the HW97 is the winner ? But is that also according to your "overall feel factor" though ?
I would not say winner, they all are great guns. Just a comparison. Some things will matter more to some people than other things. The R1 has not been tuned, so you have your orange. Some people the trigger is the most important thing, where cocking effort might be the most important to others.
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;) Jesse now that the chart is aligned I like the format and I will add that I will agree with your appraisal that some of the value calls are definitely personal what yo need to do is plan to make the trip to the South Carolina GTA fun shoot and do a random sampling of as many members as are willing to do the comparrison using your scale and then you will no longer be totally subjective ;) ;) ;D ;D
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;) Jesse now that the chart is aligned I like the format and I will add that I will agree with your appraisal that some of the value calls are definitely personal what yo need to do is plan to make the trip to the South Carolina GTA fun shoot and do a random sampling of as many members as are willing to do the comparrison using your scale and then you will no longer be totally subjective ;) ;) ;D ;D
I would like that, but my thumb would be sore after hitch hiking there. LOL
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Since it's a personal thing, I might add that the Pro Sport would spank the pants off all of them ;D
There, I said it, LOL!
Now all I need is all the Pro Sport owners to back me up (there isn't very many of us so I'll run off and hide now) ;D
Jesse, you did a nice job on your list and it illustrates well how you feel about your rifles and it will certainly help some folks out so it's very much appreciated.
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Since it's a personal thing, I might add that the Pro Sport would spank the pants off all of them ;D
There, I said it, LOL!
Now all I need is all the Pro Sport owners to back me up (there isn't very many of us so I'll run off and hide now) ;D
Jesse, you did a nice job on your list and it illustrates well how you feel about your rifles and it will certainly help some folks out so it's very much appreciated.
Hey brother, you could just send me all your rifles and I could just add them to my review. :)
Thank you for your compliment, if you notice I never did say which rifle I grab first when I go shooting.
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For some reason, I'm guessing you grab the MkIII first.
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;D Jesse wants a Pro Sport Walnut stock he is just having trouble finding a nice used one for $150 ::) ;) ;D ;D ;D :P
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Don, I see what you did there.
You just unleashed Stage 1 of Enabling; crack joke about certain rifle.
Don't give in to his jab, Jesse.
Instead, wait for Joe to respond with pics of said rifle ;D
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Hmmmmmm......this one Niko????
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Enabling Level 2, unleashed ;D
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Enabling Level 2, unleashed ;D
Enable all you want, I am broke. LOL I have 2 rifles out and would have to sell them both & a couple I have here at home for the enabling to work. :)
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Ha ha!!!!
It is a slow process Jess.....but very effective!!!