GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Headclot on September 01, 2014, 11:15:53 AM
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Hey everyone, let me say that as a newbie I'm pretty impressed with the amount of knowledge here! You guys obviously know far more than I do, so I'm interested to see what you have to say about my pretty basic questions. Hope this is the right thread for this.
I have a Benjamin NP and RWS model 34 for break barrel guns. Now I'm a pretty beefy guy and cocking these guns is like nothing. I would be very happy to have a gun with more cocking effort for more power. My question is, does it work this way? Take the NP for example: it has a cocking effort of 33 lbs and a muzzle energy of 23 foot pounds. If this gun was built to have a cocking effort of 132 lbs would the muzzle energy be 92 foot pounds? And if so, why don't manufacturers make beefier guns for beefier guys? Bigger springs, bigger slugs, while avoiding the high price of PCP guns...I think people would be all over something like this, if it's possible.
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A 92 ft/lb springer would probably weigh around the same as a Ma Deuce and kick about about the same. If you need 92 ft/lb a rimfire is your best bet. Some PCP airguns will get you there, but at considerable expense and probably low shot count. I'm guessing here but is your 23 ft/lb gun a Benjamin Trail NP? If so it's probably more like 18 ft/lb. Springers like the Diana magnums will get you about 23-25 ft/lb. If you go that route I would suggest the Diana M48. BTW, 18 ft/lb will cleanly kill squirrels out to at least 40 yds.
Scotty
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That thought did cross my mind; that a spring this powerful might be pretty big. I did check the specs of the Trail NP from Pyramid Air before I posted, but yeah that number is probably the ideal VS the usual. A .22 LR would probably be a lot more efficient for the kind of power, but I still think people would really enjoy an affordable airgun that can compete with the .22 LR for power. Maybe a multi pump pneumatic could do this while keeping the weight of the gun down? Thanks for your post!
A 92 ft/lb springer would probably weigh around the same as a Ma Deuce and kick about about the same. If you need 92 ft/lb a rimfire is your best bet. Some PCP airguns will get you there, but at considerable expense and probably low shot count. I'm guessing here but is your 23 ft/lb gun a Benjamin Trail NP? If so it's probably more like 18 ft/lb. Springers like the Diana magnums will get you about 23-25 ft/lb. If you go that route I would suggest the Diana M48. BTW, 18 ft/lb will cleanly kill squirrels out to at least 40 yds.
Scotty
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So-called "hyper velocity" .22lr like the cci stinger put out almos 200 ft/lb. Big bore pcp's are the only airguns that come close and they are expensive. The point of my reply is that you don't need that kind of power to hunt small game.
Scotty
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The power output of Springers is more related to the swept volume of the cylinder and less to the spring force.... Doubling the spring force in a gun like a 34 wouldn't do much except increase the recoil.... If you want more power, you need a larger cylinder.... That larger cylinder will then require a stronger spring, of course, and as the recoil goes up, the weight required to tame it does as well.... The practical limit for Springers, at the present time, seems to be about 30 FPE in .25 cal, and they are quite a beast....
Bob
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It's not all about spring power. The air displacement would also have to scale up . You would probably need something with a 2" diameter tube, and about 10" of piston stroke. All that would have to be made more beefy to take the recoil. That would make for about a 20 lb behemoth, that would take a gorilla to cock, hold, and shoot. Not very practical!
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I understand this thread is about power, but accuracy will come into play with a more powerful gun. The process of firing a springer sets the gun into motion from the recoil. The motion begins before the pellet even leaves the barrel. You must hold the gun consistently to expect any accuracy. The motion must always be in the same direction at the same time in the cycle. More powerful guns are generally more difficult to master.
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you might find this recent thread to be interesting...
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=73608.msg702275#msg702275 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=73608.msg702275#msg702275)
also referenced in that thread is this one...
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=34372.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=34372.0)
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I understand this thread is about power, but accuracy will come into play with a more powerful gun. The process of firing a springer sets the gun into motion from the recoil. The motion begins before the pellet even leaves the barrel. You must hold the gun consistently to expect any accuracy. The motion must always be in the same direction at the same time in the cycle. More powerful guns are generally more difficult to master.
+1 once you break the sound barrier accuracy goes down the drain. You would need a 46 grain pellet traveling at 950 FPS. You are better off going PCP, there your options really open up for power, accuracy and much heavier pellets.