GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: popedandy on August 31, 2014, 10:42:13 AM
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Edit: I thought I'd let folks know that I went with the HW30S so they wouldn't keep posting advice after the decision was made. Thanks to everyone for their help!
My wife has been doing a little bit of shooting with me. She enjoys it, but has been hampered by the fact that she is quite a bit smaller than I am and does not have the strength to easily cock my guns. I have done a bit of research and have narrowed down the list of guns I know about, but could really use some help.
Here are the factors that I am looking at:
Use: Backyard target shooting, maximum range 25-30 meters with most shooting being done at 15-20 meters. Almost all shooting would be off of a bench.
Caliber: Either .177 or .22, but I was assuming .177 would be what would be available, plus all of our other guns are .177 so we already have plenty of different kinds of pellets on hand.
Desired power: It would be nice, but not essential, if it made enough fpe to take squirrels and rabbits at the same ranges I listed for target shooting.
Shooter size: 5' tall, length-of-pull measurement (inside of elbow to pad of index finger) is 13"
Cocking: 20 lbs max. That is an estimate. She can do 30 lbs with great difficulty using both hands, but is fine with my IZH53M pistol at 13 lbs., so 20 lbs or less seems to be a realistic target.
Optics: Decent open sights with the option for a scope.
Stock material: If the stock is composite/plastic, it needs to meet the length-of-pull criteria. If it is wood, I would be able to cut it down if the length-of-pull is a bit too long.
Other: She is left-handed.
Cost: No real target range, but I'm a bit leery of shelling out for a German gun when I'm not sure she will do much shooting. She has a history of expressing interest in things, getting them, then not using them. If there is a gun that would be good enough to give her a good shooting experience and help her decide if she is serious about shooting, that would be good.
Rifles I was considering:
-XS12 from Mike Melick with a full tune. My only question concerns the stock - it is the Monte Carlo type stock, but it looks like the cheek piece is set up for a right-handed shooter. Am I correct in assuming that the opposite side is plain (no Monte Carlo cheek piece) and would this be a factor in whether to buy the gun or not.
-Stoeger X5 - seems to have good ratings for accuracy, but the trigger could be better. This one would be a home tune before being shot.
-IZH60 - I like the adjustable stock; it sounds like the trigger is reasonably good; but can it take a scope?
-Customized Crosman 2240 with the AR-type adjustable stock. She has shot my 2300KT so she is familiar with the basic platform, but I'm not sure if she if really interested in a CO2 gun.
Comments on those rifles or on any other possibilities would be appreciated.
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XS-12 or HW30.
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XS-12 or HW30.
X2
#1 would be HW30 (R7), trigger is da bomb.
I have both HW30 and X5, and you would not be disappointed with either for long plinking sessions with their weight and cocking effort.
Edit: there's the Bronco @ PA, but trigger is unknown to me.
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I agree with the XS-12. The only issue being the right handed cheek. We got 2 of them with Mike's basic tune and they cock and shoot like butter. They are perfect for your range and the price is awesome. As is Mike's service. I don't know if there is a stock option. Mike would be the one to answer that. It seems to me with all the cloning these days, there are options. I also know that is is available in .177 and .22. It is my opinion that .22 would be a bit under powered. Ours shoot cheap Daisy and Beeman wadcutters into the same holes at 20 - 30 meetors all day long. They also like the Winchester 9.8 gr domed for humane pesting. We have scopes adjusted that we can put on or take off for our choice of shooting styles (scoped vs. open sights) The front sight is visible in the scope but, 2 allen screws remove very quickly. I am probably bias to the XS-12 because I have 0 experience with the others you mentioned except for the 2240. We converted ours to .177 carbines with 17" barrels. If there is any downside to these it would be keeping a supply of C02 carts on hand. They are real fun and accurate shooters and it takes no time to blow right through the 30 shots we get from 1 cart. 10 carts each will make a good weekend of plinking.
We are fortunate men to have women in our lives to share this hobby with. I know I will encourage Betty Lou anyway I can. It seems to work out well for me. ;)
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+1 on the R7 or HW30. Great quality and accuracy.
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Get her an R7. Easy to cock, easy to shoot, great trigger and accurate. Don't be surprised if, after a little bench time, she starts to outshoot you
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+1 on the R7 or HW30. Great quality and accuracy.
Those would be my top two choices if I were reasonably sure she would do much shooting. She's a great lady, but sometimes she likes things more in theory than she does in practice. Since I've spent several thousand dollars on other things she was sure she wanted, but which have hardly been touched since they showed up, I was hoping to avoid the "pricier" guns until I know if she is going to take to the sport. I put "pricier" in quotes because I know that it is easy to spend a lot of money on less expensive items hoping to get something that will be good enough, but in the end you wind up spending more money and being less satisfied than you would be if you had started with the higher priced, but also higher quality, item. Then you eventually buy the more expensive item and realize you should have just bought it in the first place.
On a separate note, if folks know the length of pull on the various guns they mention, including the R7 and HW30, that information would be helpful. I've been able to find some of those figures on-line, but it doesn't seen to be available for all of the guns.
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The R7 & HW30 are the same gun. Beeman R7 is just a rebrand of the HW30. :)
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I guarantee that if she doesn't like the HW30, you will not regret keeping it for yourself. They also retain value if resale is needed. I grabbed a refurbished 30 for $80 less off new, from PA with sale code when they had.
Side note: HW30 comes with open sites, R7 comes with barrel brake & no sites.
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LoP
- R7 = 14-1/8" wood
- IZH-60 = 12 - 14-1/2" adjustable, plastic, GREAT trigger, easy to cock. The rear sight rail is rather short so could be difficult to mount a scope, but there is a short rail on the front of the receiver where you could put the front ring. Some have used a mount that clamps to the barrel. The loading port would be under the scope, so clearance could be a problem. I use a Tasco MiniMag red dot on mine.
- Bronco = 13" wood. But it has a straight pistol grip, similar to a lever action Winchester, not very comfortable IMHO.
- Crosman Raven = 12-1/2" Plastic
- Diana 24 = 13-1/2" wood
- Gamo Recon = 12-3/4" plastic, I have the predecessor Delta and that is easy to cock
- Mendoza RM600 = 13-1/2" wood
- Ruger Explorer = 12" plastic
- Stoeger X3 youth = 13" wood
- Weihrauch 25L = 13" wood
- Xisico XS12 = 14" wood
- Xisico XS16 = 13-1/2" plastic
Shooting off a bench, she can shoot a rifle with a longer LoP than the measured LoP. This is because on most benches, you lean forward so your head is positioned further forward than in the standing position. So don't cut the stock until she shoots it, then you can determine how much shorter it needs to be.
Some of the triggers are pretty bad, and really could use smoothening of the sear or parts replacement. I only have experience with 2 of the rifles; the trigger on the R7 is good, the IZH-60 is GREAT.
BTW, I bought my wife a TAU-200 Jr and moved my scope from the R7 to the TAU, so she could should with me. She said she did not want it. grrrrrr It sits in the corner of my office for me to glare at.
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- Bronco = 13" wood. But it has a straight pistol grip, similar to a lever action cock
The worst rifle I ever held, accuracy was the pits, it would be easier hitting a target using it as a club. Evey time I see a Bronco recommended I cringe. Next time I see a Bronco I will not walk away, but run. "Feet do not fail me now".
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Thanks for the input, folks. I realize I did not wait very long after asking for input, and I'm sure there would have been a lot more, but the posts about the R7/HW30S got me thinking about all the money I've spent in the past trying to avoid making the purchase that was more expensive initially. I keep trying, but it never seems to work. Something someone posted got me to check the PA website to see if their discount coupon applied to the HW30S, and when I found out it did, I ordered one. They are back-ordered for a couple of weeks, but that isn't too long to wait for such a nice gun.
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- Bronco = 13" wood. But it has a straight pistol grip, similar to a lever action cock
The worst rifle I ever held, accuracy was the pits, it would be easier hitting a target using it as a club. Evey time I see a Bronco recommended I cringe. Next time I see a Bronco I will not walk away, but run. "Feet do not fail me now".
Jesse...Jesse...Jesse.... you know how hit or miss these things can be...... I rescued a Mendoza RM377 (essentially an Air Venturi Bronco) from the local flea market and bought another broken one from another member. I bought 2 sets of Fiber Optic sights from PA off of the Bronco. We shoot the Chinese fly paper at 20' in the shed and stack pellets at 25yds in the backyard range scoped with them. Of course, I did tune them and replace that 90gage (or so it seemed) trigger torsion spring with a 24gage. Huge difference. We love these things. One of our goto plinkers.
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Anyhow, congrats popedandy. I never shot a 30 but I bet they and a fine gun.
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I can't help it. I left a worse taste in my mouth than the Benjamin Trail & RS2. I bought it for my son, I destroyed it trying to fix it, then I had to buy him a MROD .22 just to make it up to him.
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I can't help it. I left a worse taste in my mouth than the Benjamin Trail & RS2. I bought it for my son, I destroyed it trying to fix it, then I had to buy him a MROD .22 just to make it up to him.
Smooth move Jesse, maybe I'll see if I can destroy Betty Lou's.
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Love the HW30s, easily a gun that will be enjoyed for years. Also a gun that a Macarri tune kit will make even better. The rubbing of the cocking arm on the receiver tube is frustrating and a plastic insert in the cocking arm helps significantly. ARH has sold a plastic insert in the past.
Also, if your wife is short armed and small handed, a modified stock might help. My kids shoot a custom stocked R7 and love it!
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I would consider a CZ 631 as well. Easy to cock and accurate.
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No one has mentioned a Daisy 853? ???
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HW 25. Smaller than a 30/R7 and only about 3 bills. Decent velocity and German quality. AoA has them in stock.
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the qb78 or 79 ?
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While it is late, Oldgringo is right, I don't know why I did not suggest a 953/853.
It does not have a good trigger, in fact the stock Daisy trigger is LOUSEY. But the trigger mods will make it a decent trigger.
Being a SSP rifle, with ZERO recoil, it is easier to shoot accurately than all but the recoilless spring rifles and gas guns (co2 and CA/PCP).
LoP is 12 inches, and can be made longer with spacers under the butt pad.
It is a 10m rifle. 30m will be a LONG shot for this low powered rifle. At 30m, the pellets trajectory might be like a rainbow.
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Shot a few R7's here and there. ;D
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Shot a few R7's here and there. ;D
I see said the blind man. Kinda grabs me like a man with no hands. :)