GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: cclingma on August 11, 2014, 12:40:17 AM
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I've been researching PCPS for months and just bought a refurb Benjamin Titan a few weeks ago to hopefully get my mind off this PCP problem for a while. It's kind of working as I'm really enjoying the Titan but has also introduced another decision....
So now I'm thinking maybe I just need a kick butt springer/gas gun instead of PCP and the support equipment, or maybe I already have a kick butt rifle. This is where I need some perspective from the Pros on here. Disclaimer...I put quite a bit of effort and some money into the Titan because I HAD to make it as good as I could. It has GRTIII trigger, brass pivot washers, crown and leade in polished, compression chamber honed with new piston seal and 70% moly lube, scope upgraded. It pushes CPHP at 740 according to my Chrono. I believe I could wear a nickel sized hole out in my target at 25 yards with the rifle as is now. I was just smacking soda cans at 40 to 60 yards with it last night. I also admit I'm
a pretty poor shot as I can often feel myself doing things wrong at the shot. So if I got my hands on a Diana 34 or maybe even Beeman R9/R1 or equivalent am I gonna throw rocks at my Titan? Maybe I'm a springer/gasser guy and I can just move on from this Pcp torture I'm putting myself through.
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(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn111/manbearpig1986/tumblr_lr9ya8xeve1qcv2hso1_500.gif) (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/manbearpig1986/media/tumblr_lr9ya8xeve1qcv2hso1_500.gif.html)
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You may be your own worst enemy on this one. What kind of accuracy do you expect out of an airgun? At what distance? How much are you willing to pay for this goal?
In general a fixed barrel will outshoot a springer (barely). A pcp will usually outshoot a springer. Is it worth the cost? For me it is not.
I shoot only against myself, improving my technique and shrinking groups as I go. I have made a lot of improvements to my Nitro Venom and I can shoot groups under 1/2" (dime size) at twenty plus yards. I purchased a TX 200 as I was not satisfied with the Venom. It can do one large hole at the same distance - not always, but I have done it.
Much of my problem has been my learning curve. A little has been the guns themselves. My most recent thing is adjusting triggers. I have found trigger adjustment makes a HUGE difference in my groups.
I would like to improve my groups at a distance. I can purchase a .17 HMR and a few bricks of ammo for what it would cost for a halfway decent PCP setup. My next toy will probably be just that.
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Well darn. One cool little animated dark side picture and I'm
Right back to obsessing on PCP rifles.
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You may be your own worst enemy on this one. What kind of accuracy do you expect out of an airgun? At what distance? How much are you willing to pay for this goal?
I think you've just figured me out. I've not set a goal but I need to. Thanks for the insight.
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I've been researching PCPS for months and just bought a refurb Benjamin Titan a few weeks ago to hopefully get my mind off this PCP problem for a while. It's kind of working as I'm really enjoying the Titan but has also introduced another decision....
So now I'm thinking maybe I just need a kick butt springer/gas gun instead of PCP and the support equipment, or maybe I already have a kick butt rifle.... So if I got my hands on a Diana 34 or maybe even Beeman R9/R1 or equivalent am I gonna throw rocks at my Titan? Maybe I'm a springer/gasser guy and I can just move on from this Pcp torture I'm putting myself through.
Welcome to the addiction!
Do you enjoy shooting? Are you focused on improving your shooting? Personally I started with just spending "good money" on an R7 and learning to shoot a springer ...then a slew of Dianas... a proverbial ton of pellets and off hand shooting self critiquing... a few impressive low cost high value BAM B40's ...a few more Dianas and Then...the gun that stopped my heart when I first saw one- an HW 97 + A Lot more shooting and searching for what I really want to think an airgun should be.
The higher dollar 97 became what I'd always envisioned- a spring gun I could pick up Any time and enjoy. Of course I still needed to dabble and a few more HW/R guns as well as a QB or two came and went along with all of the Dianas. An HW98 (Awesome break barrel!) and an HW30S followed, along with a Stoeger X20S (tweaked much like you've done with your Titan) compliment the HW 97 to this day. Finally I've added a "lowly" Crosman Fury refurb to my now "meager" stable. The little airgun that could brings the same smile to my face that my HW's and tweaked Stoeger do when I shoot it. I still hang on to that 97 because it is my perfect One Gun. I even tried to think I had to have a PCP gun but just couldn't find the justification to really Neeeeed one.
I guess what I'm saying is the Titan is everything you need it to be but you'll never be truly satisfied until you try out what you think you want. Not great advice from an AG Addict but it is what it is ;) You can't just have one
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Do you really want a PCP? Do you really want a better springer? Life is short! If you really want one get it.
Personally, I think the next step up would be a quality springer. I would recommend buying a used one a nd if you're not satisfied with it, you could likely resell it without losing any money. Then make the move up (?) to a PCP
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Well darn. One cool little animated dark side picture and I'm
Right back to obsessing on PCP rifles.
I am only here to help. :)
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I sincerely appreciate the insight and advice. I think you guys have given me some tools to help figure this out....even the pictures of the good looking air gun arsenal.
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I've had a couple fancy guns, and you know what? I have more fun with my cheap Chinese rifles than I ever had with one of the pricier guns. I was afraid to shoot the TX200 I once had for fear of scratching it. But, maybe someday if I ever have the money, I'll get a fancy shooter. Just something to take photos of and have people say 'Ahhhh ohhhhh' over. (Pokes Booger) :P ;D
You just have to weigh the pros and cons, check your bank account, check with SWMBO (If you have one)and make the best choice you can.
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But, maybe someday if I ever have the money, I'll get a fancy shooter. Just something to take photos of and have people say 'Ahhhh ohhhhh' over. (Pokes Booger) :P ;D
LOL, I do have some nice guns, but since the R11 all my other guns pale in comparison. I just need a good tune. I shot my TX200MK3 today, and she must have been jealous because she just wasn't hitting. I cleaned her the other day and maybe she just needs some lead fed to her. :)
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But, maybe someday if I ever have the money, I'll get a fancy shooter. Just something to take photos of and have people say 'Ahhhh ohhhhh' over. (Pokes Booger) :P ;D
LOL, I do have some nice guns, but since the R11 all my other guns pale in comparison. I just need a good tune. I shot my TX200MK3 today, and she must have been jealous because she just wasn't hitting. I cleaned her the other day and maybe she just needs some lead fed to her. :)
I think the best way to enjoy shooting is to be content and just shoot and get to know what you have right now. That's the lesson I have learned the hard way. If and when you get something really good later on, then be thankful.
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^^^ what he said. i found out a long time ago that chasing a dream and chasing your tail are pretty much one in the same.
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;D The last few posts were good advice . Try not to spend beyond your comfort level that is what I did and I'm very satisfied with mine. MY only regret is that I didn't find the GTA sooner. If you want an affordable and accurate springer give the Gamo CFR .177 a very hard look by all accounts an "accurate and affordable under lever springer. George there is nothing wrong with springers and there is absolutely nothing wrong with gassers or multi pumps it is just what you get comfortable with, my problem is liking them all
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Thanks for sharing wisdom. The chasing a dream statement really caught my attention. I've been down this road before mostly with my compound bows. It starts innocently enough with a modest model, then as interest and understanding expands so does the price of equipment including "support" equipment. I can see myself peeking down this road again with airguns. I enjoy shooting pellets, tinkering with the rifle, and thinking about how to make myself a better shooter. Oh boy, gotta keep this under control. I do however still greatly enjoy my bows. Shot a few arrows last night in fact right after loading enough pellets to discolor my fingertips nicely.
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Thanks for sharing wisdom. The chasing a dream statement really caught my attention. I've been down this road before mostly with my compound bows. It starts innocently enough with a modest model, then as interest and understanding expands so does the price of equipment including "support" equipment. I can see myself peeking down this road again with airguns. I enjoy shooting pellets, tinkering with the rifle, and thinking about how to make myself a better shooter. Oh boy, gotta keep this under control. I do however still greatly enjoy my bows. Shot a few arrows last night in fact right after loading enough pellets to discolor my fingertips nicely.
Know the feeling. For many decades I was an NFAA bowman (can't use the proper word here but it begins with an "a") and that experience was all about building bows, shafts and strings, participating in the tournament circuit and hunting big game all across the West. I shot in both freestyle and "instinctive" classes at the "A" level and was very successful in both and I have taken my fair share of deer and elk...and carp...and...sharks. I actually built my first bow in 1964, real hard rock maple/fiberglass laminated limbs - built the forms and the air-pressure clamping system to do the laminating - exotic wood riser - the whole shootin' match. Built a few more after that but ended up shooting commercially available (PSE, Pearson, Golden Eagle and a few others, some of 'em custom) compounds.
So, yeah I know the feelin'.
What I learned was that you can be successful and have a really good time with just a simple, unadorned recurve bow if you practice long and hard enough, that going nuts in pursuit of retail tech (guzzle enough of that Kool-Aid) does not necessarily add more fun to a sport that fundamentally is just a very fundamental fun sport.
Now this comment is not aimed at criticizing anybody's preference regarding tools or technological pursuits, because I loved every minute of that chase myself, but for me today I find that simple makes me more fun, and fun is what life really is all about these days.
Just enjoy the trip.
;) Ben
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Crosman/Benjamin are IMO some of the better chinese airguns.
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This is from a long time shooter,
Been shooting airguns since I was too young to pump the Benjamin 312 I was given.
Been shooting powder burners a long time too.
I have always drooled over the PCP guns, but funds limited me to the springers, and multi pumps, and also co2.
The co2 gave me my first "taste" of what could be a PCP.
Fast forward many years, I had opportunities in Colorado Springs, to shoot some of the finest PCP air guns in the world at the Olympic training center.
All it did was make me want one more.
But funds and life still limited me.
A while back, I was given a PCP hand pump in need of servicing.
$25 later,
I had the one tool that had kept me out of the darkside. (A way to fill any PCP gun)
I picked up a used Bam B50, in .22, after some tinkering, I had it shooting well.
Now I have a second PCP, and 2 scba tanks, and my hand pump.
(The tanks cost $20 each, and a hydro was $27)
I am still limited on funds, but I find a way..
I waited over 40 years to join the PCP ranks, I wish I had done it sooner.
You may THINK it is too expensive, but if you can get that 1 necessity, (a way to fill) out of the way,
The market is full of used reasonably priced PCP's
I saw a FX CYCLONE PCP sell yesterday online for $275 with the pump.
(It retails for over $1300)
I just missed it..
The pleasure of sending 5 pellets screaming through the same hole, with a $200 gun,
with no kick, and no hold sensitivity, is priceless..
Don't wait, just do it..
B50, PCP at 50 yards, JSB 14.35's
5 shots, the flier is all me, I called it when I pulled the trigger.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2qiyer7.jpg)
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Still thinking on whether I want a nicer break barrel or jump to a PCP. I think I'm going to have to go for a PCP. I'm simply fascinated by the PCP concept. Charge up a pressure vessel with air attached to a barrel and trigger, walk around firing pellets with air from the vessel......How cool is that?!?!!!!
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Still thinking on whether I want a nicer break barrel or jump to a PCP. I think I'm going to have to go for a PCP. I'm simply fascinated by the PCP concept. Charge up a pressure vessel with air attached to a barrel and trigger, walk around firing pellets with air from the vessel......How cool is that?!?!!!!
I went PCP, and then I came back to the spring. Truth is I like them both, but the spring has more soul. :)
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To answer your question....... if you had an R9, chances are good you won't be shooting the Titan very much.
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Having owned a Titan ... currently a X20 Stoeger in .22 cal ( BOTH B-19 platform guns BTW ) never again knowing what I do now.
Not going to slam or discredit those who own and like them ... Just no thank you :P
Have been into "Better" air guns sense the early 1980's and along the way had those turds you just had to have and fiddle with HOPING to get a great shooter. Sometimes the work payed dividends, all too often a money pit that did not.
The Fancy stuff as you say ... well, more often than not it lives up to the hype and then some ;)
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I still look at springers, (kinda like looking at an old girlfriend)
But I have definitely given them up.
I now have another PCP, a marauder.
That makes 3, it never ends..
I love it..
The marauder is a bolt action repeater.
Just pull the bolt, load a pellet, shoot, and do it again.
And again.
So much like a rimfire, but oh so quiet, and fulfilling..
It is a load of fun..
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;D The only type of AG that I don't own presently is a gasser but years ago I had a Crosman co2 pistol (don't remember the model #) and I had a ball plinking spiders and grasshoppers with it. Most of my AG's are mid level springers and PCP's. I enjoy shooting both and now will start to thin the heard of some of the lesser rifles. No dislike or dissatisfaction just the need to own more AG's than I presently own makes no sense to me. AG's are a satisfying hobby for me and allow me to tinker and improve them so if I see one I am interested in I will plop down the required cash and enjoy the ride ;) ;D ;D ;D
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I have three PCP's,a carbon fiber 4500 psi tank,and a Hill pump.I haven't touched any of the PCP's for a couple of months.I prefer to use spring piston guns.I don't care for the gas piston guns either.The springers are just more interesting.I do intend to get two of the PCP's out and do some long range shooting when I get a chance.
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I'm understanding more all the time why many of you have large collections of air rifles. I'm going to have to have a nice springer and a PCP to settle this. I'm going to go check the couch for loose change cause I'm going to need it.
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my heart says PCP..my wallet laughs hysterically...
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my heart says PCP..my wallet laughs hysterically...
Spring piston guns can cost as much or more than PCPs. My wallet laughed too, and my Credit Cards :'( .
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My wallet has cobwebs, and the credit cards are all panting from being overworked....
A PCP is not as expensive as you think.
A good german springer can ser you back more than a decent non german PCP.
But there is the FEEL of quality.
Pick up a fwb, or high end rws. Put it to your shoulder, close your eyes and run your hands across it, you can feel the pride in workmanship.
200 can get you a new bam 50, or a flying dragon PCP.
Both are capable of a lot of power, and good accuracy.
If you decide on a springer, and a PCP, look into a under lever springer.
The quality is excellent, and the barrel is always lined up..
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i think what cured me of pcp's was the that you absolutely have to have a way to fill / refill the gun, as well as the limited number of shots before the required refill. if i'm in the woods, and nothing's moving, i like to stump shoot. i've been known to burn through an entire tin of pellets in a day that way. kind of hard to do with a pcp, unless you drag a tank or pump into the woods with you. if i'm strapping an 88 inch tank to my back, there's water involved, not woods. the pump is out. my back won't take it, i already tried that.
springers, on the other hand, are a grab & go gun. the only time the fun stops is if you run out of ammo, or, you decide to quit for the day.
yes, there's something to be said for the accuracy of pcp, but, there's none of the satisfaction of knowing that you've truly mastered something, to the point of near perfection, like there is with a springer. at least not for me.
just my two cents.
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;D Scott my goal is to enjoy the AG's and shooting to the best of my ability with any of my rifles. presently I can pick up any of mine and shoot dime or quarter size groups at 25 yards and 1" at 50 yards. The only one that gives me fits is the Gamo Whisper .177 and some of that is me not being patient with the shots
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...the satisfaction of knowing that you've truly mastered something, to the point of near perfection, like there is with a springer. at least not for me.
just my two cents.
I'm down with that. Carrying the simplest airgun of them all, the springer, into the woods has a lot to recommend it. I do appreciate the high tech of the PCP as well as its accuracy potential but when I go forth to smite the grave diggers I launch a lot of pellets, some of 'em just practice shots as longhunter mentioned.
I like simple, quick-handling and self-contained; in the woods I favor the springer or gas ram. Yeah, put me down for optimized simplicity when out in the remote.
Ben
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;D Scott my goal is to enjoy the AG's and shooting to the best of my ability with any of my rifles. presently I can pick up any of mine and shoot dime or quarter size groups at 25 yards and 1" at 50 yards. The only one that gives me fits is the Gamo Whisper .177 and some of that is me not being patient with the shots
I agree. If you don't enjoy , or can't master a springer, and some are very hard to get a handle on, PCP or msp, co2 are the way to go. I've owned / currently possess all four types. I do miss my condor. That gun was a real accurate hammer. But, like I said, it had it's limitating factors.
I'm darn good with my springers and gasrams. That's what I'll be sticking with. I don't know if I should say that I've mastered the gun, or, if I've mastered myself. I guess you could say that it's a zenlike accomplishment. Know what I mean?
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;D Scott my goal is to enjoy the AG's and shooting to the best of my ability with any of my rifles. presently I can pick up any of mine and shoot dime or quarter size groups at 25 yards and 1" at 50 yards. The only one that gives me fits is the Gamo Whisper .177 and some of that is me not being patient with the shots
I agree. If you don't enjoy , or can't master a springer, and some are very hard to get a handle on, PCP or msp, co2 are the way to go. I've owned / currently possess all four types. I do miss my condor. That gun was a real accurate hammer. But, like I said, it had it's limitating factors.
I'm darn good with my springers and gasrams. That's what I'll be sticking with. I don't know if I should say that I've mastered the gun, or, if I've mastered myself. I guess you could say that it's a zenlike accomplishment. Know what I mean?
;D I couldn't agree more when I am in a "ZONE" I feel unbeatable and can't miss
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Springers and PCPs all have their pros and cons. For years, springers were my go to platform. When the desire came for ultimate precision, then a PCP was the right platform for me. Springers taught me the importance of proper hold. If budget was my prime concern, then the Stoeger or Crosman line is what I would select. They can be enhanced over time with low cost parts and easily serviced with minimal tools and skill. I'm enjoying my first PCP, a Marauder. It is point and shoot with excellent precision right out-of-the-box. I do enjoy shooting whatever happens to be in my hands.
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I don't know if I should say that I've mastered the gun, or, if I've mastered myself. I guess you could say that it's a zenlike accomplishment. Know what I mean?
Indeed I do. The gun is just being a gun; what it's really all about is how well the shooter controls the shooter, less about whatever bad behavior might be built into the gun, though as we all know they's some guns that cain't be rode. I've had a couple of those. Last I saw 'em they were vacationing in a dumpster.
I also get how the pursuit of ultimate precision works. These days I'm going for excellent precision from the offhand position in the tall grass, sweat running into my eyes and so forth though I still do have that gear jones that demands perfection from time to time but not so often anymore. Been there, done that, yeah maybe I'll do it again but not right now. Right now it's all about a carbined 'Hawk smothered in bed liner...and a Titan that I still cannot believe shoots as well as it does...actually, there are several guns in the cabinet that do real good...hmmm...I'm headed to the back 40, time to launch a few...maybe I should just get a SmartPhone and quit getting all this exercise...become a zombie, fit right in...
It's zen, man.
;) Ben
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I bought 3 springers and 1 co2 air rifle before I finally had enough and bought a pcp. Now I'm a happy camper. Buy once cry once
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Hey, Ben. Been meaning to ask, how's that hawk shootin'??
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Original poster here, and I'm still checking in on this one regularly. I must admit that I'm still all mixed up on PCP vs better springer vs no change. I love, love, love the freedom of no support equipment that the springer offers. I just said love three times. I also would really like to try the no recoil, no vibe, and most importantly no hold sensitivity of a PCP. I get what you guys are saying about the zen experience with springer. I've been at one with my break barrell a few times and the hit whatever I want feeling is oh so good. But, when I went squirreling I was busy thinking about don't hold too tight, don't let forend touch tree I'm leaning against, don't drop pellet (I'm wanting a repeater). Maybe I just haven't shot it enough but life is always going to get in the way. I'm sure there will be times when I don't shoot for a month and then pick up a rifle and expect squirrel head accuracy. Rim fire used to be that way for me and I'm thinking PCP would too. Tough decision.
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Original poster here, and I'm still checking in on this one regularly. I must admit that I'm still all mixed up on PCP vs better springer vs no change. I love, love, love the freedom of no support equipment that the springer offers. I just said love three times. I also would really like to try the no recoil, no vibe, and most importantly no hold sensitivity of a PCP. I get what you guys are saying about the zen experience with springer. I've been at one with my break barrell a few times and the hit whatever I want feeling is oh so good. But, when I went squirreling I was busy thinking about don't hold too tight, don't let forend touch tree I'm leaning against, don't drop pellet (I'm wanting a repeater). Maybe I just haven't shot it enough but life is always going to get in the way. I'm sure there will be times when I don't shoot for a month and then pick up a rifle and expect squirrel head accuracy. Rim fire used to be that way for me and I'm thinking PCP would too. Tough decision.
;) The hardest thing is deciding on your personal comfort level as far as what you are willing to spend for the cost of a Quality break barrel or under lever you can buy a refurb Marauder Synthetic .25 and pump if you desire power and accuracy. The Diana 460 .177 is quite capable of minute of squirrel head at 30 to 50 yards an 1 shot 1 kill power not hold sensitive and very pretty to boot, If less expensive rifles are the only option and still want non hold sensitive Gamo CFR may be your best choice
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Just to confuse you further... If you think about it, a nice multi-pump is a really a PCP in disguise and a real bargain in comparison. The firing cycle is exactly the same and there is no support equipment required. My Sheridan is quite accurate to 35 yards and gives me a bit of upper body exercise in the mix. Routinely available in nice condition for around $175 or less. But I have to admit, my current go-to gun is an AA S200. Not sure why...but I still find myself window shopping almost every day!
pv
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;D Come on Unclie Paulie you know that window shopping is half the fun
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Just to confuse you further... If you think about it, a nice multi-pump is a really a PCP in disguise and a real bargain in comparison. The firing cycle is exactly the same and there is no support equipment required. My Sheridan is quite accurate to 35 yards and gives me a bit of upper body exercise in the mix. Routinely available in nice condition for around $175 or less.
pv
I was so close to purchasing a 392 a while back. The issues with new Sheridan quality control ultimately scared me away but I still think about it occasionally. Sounds like finding a older one would eliminate those concerns. Of course I'd want to make it quiet which looks like a trip to Mac1. Then there's the scope mount, looks like Mac1 has a great fix for that too with his scope grove machining. While it's there there would be no question that it would need his steroid conversion. Still sounds like a trick setup when all complete.
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I really like pumpers, but yes - I'd avoid the new Benji's big time. I just returned a new Sheridan, it was NOTHING like the old rocker safety gun I had as a kid.
I wish they'd make some better new production pumpers - Dasiy metal recievers, old model 2100's with the oil wipers, or 2200's especially!
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The key to happiness is figuring out how to enjoy what you already have, instead of living a continuous cycle of obtaining more.
That said, life is short. Buy something nice to enjoy already having.....
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The key to happiness is figuring out how to enjoy what you already have, instead of living a continuous cycle of obtaining more.
That said, life is short. Buy something nice to enjoy already having.....
+1.
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The key to happiness is figuring out how to enjoy what you already have, instead of living a continuous cycle of obtaining more.
That said, life is short. Buy something nice to enjoy already having.....
You said it so well. Be content but be content with something cool!
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The marauder is a bolt action repeater.
Just pull the bolt, load a pellet, shoot, and do it again.
And again.
So much like a rimfire, but oh so quiet, and fulfilling..
It is a load of fun..
You left out pump, and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump.
Shoot 10 times then:
pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump.
Or you can spend over $1000 and get yourself a way to have electricity do the pumping for you.....or you can buy a tank $$$, then drive (gas)$$$, pay to have it filled $, drive home (gas)$$$ and shoot again. Sounds like such fun.
The closest place for me to get something filled is over 45min away.....one way....two hours in the car just to get a tank filled....what a way to spend a Saturday.
Big bucket of no thanks.
I am sure one day I will own a PCP gun, the talk about how inexpensive they are is garbage....sure the gun itself might be inexpensive but if you want to shoot it hire a 12yr so he can pump the bicycle pump for you, shell out a thousand dollars plus for a pump, or hundreds of dollars for the tank and such.
Quite a bit of cork sniffing going on here, you know I shot high power, high power silhouette, small bore, PPC.....tons of different matches....been there done that, I shoot an airgun for FUN, I don't want to go to a match. I want to sit on my front porch and shoot the old pop cans, have the 2100 with one pump to zap the deer so they don't eat the wife's tulips. I enjoy my "cheapo" guns, I find they shoot well, and I enjoy trying to make them shoot as well as they can. I will keep and enjoy my sub $300 spring and CO2 guns, just bought a Fusion and LOVE it. Set it on a lead sled and I am amazed how well it shoots.
Nope if it was me and I owned the Titan I would be more then happy with the dime sized groups, and working on my skills to make them better (let me know when you want to sell it to fund some of the stuff you are going to need to enjoy the PCP rifle you are drooling over)
This is all just ME, and what (I) like....everyone is different...we all like different things. My view on "cheap" rifles is yes they are pretty INEXPENSIVE but there are some real jewels out there that are just amazing...QB anyone...but in the end I would say, if your wallet can afford it go for it, you only go this way one time. Don't neglect your other duties, but you are allowed to enjoy yourself as well.
Have fun that is what it is all about.
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;D Having fun is what it is all about ! Years ago I spent literally thousands of dollars on downhill ski equipment and lift tickets ski vacations and all I have to show for it are some great memories also had a 28 ft sport fisherman for about 10 years same story lots of money spent many great times and pictures from those trips also. Now it is pellet rifles and more great times and building on the memories so at the end of the day it is about what you want and feel comfortable spending to get . As they say you can't take it with you. ;) ;D 8)
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You left out pump, and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump.
I hear ya. That's too much pumping for a few shots. I too am not willing to spend compressor money at this point and can't stomach being tied to a tank that someone else fills, so leaves me looking at pumps. My reading here makes me believe there are some guns the either by smaller resivor or lower fill pressure wouldn't be bad to pump. Examples of such guns include the FDPCP, Discovery, and Marauder pistol. I find myself leaning heavily toward the Marauder pistol because..........repeater, lightweight, 24 good shots per fill with a moderate tune, repeater, shrouded, repeater. I hit on the repeater bit a little hard but that really has my attention. I think they say 48 pumps for those 24 shots. I see that as twice the pumping of a springer but 1/4 the pumps of the good MSP. So many things to think about, but I enjoy just thinking about it.
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;D Having fun is what it is all about ! Years ago I spent literally thousands of dollars on downhill ski equipment and lift tickets ski vacations and all I have to show for it are some great memories also had a 28 ft sport fisherman for about 10 years same story lots of money spent many great times and pictures from those trips also. Now it is pellet rifles and more great times and building on the memories so at the end of the day it is about what you want and feel comfortable spending to get . As they say you can't take it with you. ;) ;D 8)
+1 When you reach that age, it is not about the money. I went to my first FT competition and it was a blast. While my score was DNF it was a great time. Two hours driving there, and two hours home. It was the most fun shooting I have had in a long time.
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You left out pump, and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump.
I hear ya. That's too much pumping for a few shots. I too am not willing to spend compressor money at this point and can't stomach being tied to a tank that someone else fills, so leaves me looking at pumps. My reading here makes me believe there are some guns the either by smaller resivor or lower fill pressure wouldn't be bad to pump. Examples of such guns include the FDPCP, Discovery, and Marauder pistol. I find myself leaning heavily toward the Marauder pistol because..........repeater, lightweight, 24 good shots per fill with a moderate tune, repeater, shrouded, repeater. I hit on the repeater bit a little hard but that really has my attention. I think they say 48 pumps for those 24 shots. I see that as twice the pumping of a springer but 1/4 the pumps of the good MSP. So many things to think about, but I enjoy just thinking about it.
That is a good way to look at it, about 1/4 the pumps of a MSP....however even a cheap MSP seems to out last the bicycle pumps, just based on what I read here. Replacing the seals on your $200 bicycle pump just seems like one more thing I have to take care of in addition to the gun itself. I started shooting air rifles for two reasons, 1) after surgery I really can't take the recoil I once did, and 2) it is to be less intensive in the taking care of the shooting gear department. If I want all that headache and/or expense to shoot PCP I will just start reloading again, and shooting pistols again...just move to 38 super, 28g shotgun league, and a M1 Carbine for my military matches. Can't figure out the high power side of things, but smallbore is still a non issue and no loading required.
No for me PCP is still to big a pain. It will get better and more inexpensive, I am more then happy to let others lead the way....then when they have the $2,000 compressor and the $300 units first hit the shelf that is when I will jump in....and they will jump to the next new (hay look at me) way of shooting pellets that comes along.
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You left out pump, and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump.
I hear ya. That's too much pumping for a few shots. I too am not willing to spend compressor money at this point and can't stomach being tied to a tank that someone else fills, so leaves me looking at pumps. My reading here makes me believe there are some guns the either by smaller resivor or lower fill pressure wouldn't be bad to pump. Examples of such guns include the FDPCP, Discovery, and Marauder pistol. I find myself leaning heavily toward the Marauder pistol because..........repeater, lightweight, 24 good shots per fill with a moderate tune, repeater, shrouded, repeater. I hit on the repeater bit a little hard but that really has my attention. I think they say 48 pumps for those 24 shots. I see that as twice the pumping of a springer but 1/4 the pumps of the good MSP. So many things to think about, but I enjoy just thinking about it.
That is a good way to look at it, about 1/4 the pumps of a MSP....however even a cheap MSP seems to out last the bicycle pumps, just based on what I read here. Replacing the seals on your $200 bicycle pump just seems like one more thing I have to take care of in addition to the gun itself. I started shooting air rifles for two reasons, 1) after surgery I really can't take the recoil I once did, and 2) it is to be less intensive in the taking care of the shooting gear department. If I want all that headache and/or expense to shoot PCP I will just start reloading again, and shooting pistols again...just move to 38 super, 28g shotgun league, and a M1 Carbine for my military matches. Can't figure out the high power side of things, but smallbore is still a non issue and no loading required.
No for me PCP is still to big a pain. It will get better and more inexpensive, I am more then happy to let others lead the way....then when they have the $2,000 compressor and the $300 units first hit the shelf that is when I will jump in....and they will jump to the next new (hay look at me) way of shooting pellets that comes along.
+1 on everything you've said about PCP Cherokee. Back when I had a good, steady income I looked into PCP and crunched the numbers. Insanely expensive for what you get. Now that I live on a fixed income, it just ain't happening. My Ruger 10/22 can run rings around most PCP guns. Even with ammo shortages it is a better system for me. I have enough 22lr on hand for the occasional shoot, so bye bye PCP.
Nope, I prefer simple systems. I like the idea of grabbing a gun, putting on shooting glasses, grabbing a tin of pellets and going outside for a relaxing shoot. It's getting to the point that I don't even want to bother with lugging CO2 carts around. I am coming around to thinking that self contained guns are the thing for me. MSP, SSP, and gas piston are what I use the most now, and will be the guns I can use in cooler temps without the limitations of CO2. Heck, I may even break my taboo against springers and this time get a non magnum. Just something inexpensive for plinking, where I don't have to worry too much about hold sensitivity. Either use a cheap scope, or just find one with decent iron sights and call it a day. When I get some spare cash, I might just give Mr Melick a call and see what he can whip up.
It comes to a point where you just have to lower your sights and shoot at what you can hit. And have fun doing it. As the Bible says, be content with such things as you have. That shiny new expensive gun will just lead you on a merry chase to wanting more, more more. I know, because I went on that chase.
'nuff said. Have fun and be safe out there!
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You left out pump, and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump,and pump.
I hear ya. That's too much pumping for a few shots. I too am not willing to spend compressor money at this point and can't stomach being tied to a tank that someone else fills, so leaves me looking at pumps. My reading here makes me believe there are some guns the either by smaller resivor or lower fill pressure wouldn't be bad to pump. Examples of such guns include the FDPCP, Discovery, and Marauder pistol. I find myself leaning heavily toward the Marauder pistol because..........repeater, lightweight, 24 good shots per fill with a moderate tune, repeater, shrouded, repeater. I hit on the repeater bit a little hard but that really has my attention. I think they say 48 pumps for those 24 shots. I see that as twice the pumping of a springer but 1/4 the pumps of the good MSP. So many things to think about, but I enjoy just thinking about it.
That is a good way to look at it, about 1/4 the pumps of a MSP....however even a cheap MSP seems to out last the bicycle pumps, just based on what I read here. Replacing the seals on your $200 bicycle pump just seems like one more thing I have to take care of in addition to the gun itself. I started shooting air rifles for two reasons, 1) after surgery I really can't take the recoil I once did, and 2) it is to be less intensive in the taking care of the shooting gear department. If I want all that headache and/or expense to shoot PCP I will just start reloading again, and shooting pistols again...just move to 38 super, 28g shotgun league, and a M1 Carbine for my military matches. Can't figure out the high power side of things, but smallbore is still a non issue and no loading required.
No for me PCP is still to big a pain. It will get better and more inexpensive, I am more then happy to let others lead the way....then when they have the $2,000 compressor and the $300 units first hit the shelf that is when I will jump in....and they will jump to the next new (hay look at me) way of shooting pellets that comes along.
+1 on everything you've said about PCP Cherokee. Back when I had a good, steady income I looked into PCP and crunched the numbers. Insanely expensive for what you get. Now that I live on a fixed income, it just ain't happening. My Ruger 10/22 can run rings around most PCP guns. Even with ammo shortages it is a better system for me. I have enough 22lr on hand for the occasional shoot, so bye bye PCP.
Nope, I prefer simple systems. I like the idea of grabbing a gun, putting on shooting glasses, grabbing a tin of pellets and going outside for a relaxing shoot. It's getting to the point that I don't even want to bother with lugging CO2 carts around. I am coming around to thinking that self contained guns are the thing for me. MSP, SSP, and gas piston are what I use the most now, and will be the guns I can use in cooler temps without the limitations of CO2. Heck, I may even break my taboo against springers and this time get a non magnum. Just something inexpensive for plinking, where I don't have to worry too much about hold sensitivity. Either use a cheap scope, or just find one with decent iron sights and call it a day. When I get some spare cash, I might just give Mr Melick a call and see what he can whip up.
It comes to a point where you just have to lower your sights and shoot at what you can hit. And have fun doing it. As the Bible says, be content with such things as you have. That shiny new expensive gun will just lead you on a merry chase to wanting more, more more. I know, because I went on that chase.
'nuff said. Have fun and be safe out there!
Spot on, but one thing you did miss on....you said it comes to a point where you lower your sights.....I disagree with that, IMHO you are not lowering your sights....you are not making due....you are not buying lesser....or anything along those lines. Those that have the PCP and German guns with names most Americans can't pronounce want you to think you have something that is an "OK Starter" gun, or something till you get a real gun. Ok that's fine, In my book I buy the best tool for doing the job I want to do. I want to sit on my porch, talk to the wife while she reads a book and shoot stuff, or have my kid next to me (on the odd chance a 17yr old would want to do anything with his dad) and shoot together....no ears, just popping this or that....and you know what those cheap guns work just fine.
And the odd thing is in my experience a great many of those with the Anschutz rifle and a vest with their name on the back can't shoot any better then the guy with the walmart 10/22 and a BSA sweet 22 scope....but they sure talk a big game till you start to score the little bits of paper.....after that they tend to get real quiet.
This has been fun but I am done here.