GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: UCChris on August 07, 2014, 11:39:58 AM
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Hi all! I ordered a refurb Ruger BHE from AGD last night for a screaming deal. I figured this will be the springer for me to try tuning with. I should have it in a couple days and I will outline my escapades here in this thread. But I have some questions first.
1) Is it true that the Ruger BHE is a copy of the RWS 34?
2) If number one is true, then can I use a Vortek PG2 kit in my new Ruger BHE?
3) If one and two are true, then is it better to use a Vortek PG2, or something else?
4) Can I send the trigger group to Mike Melick and have him do this second screw mod I've been hearing about?
My end goal is to get as close to 950 fps with 7.9 grain pellets as possible. I want this to be a really flat bird popper. I will post further questions and what not here.
Thanks GTA family!
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1. Yes
2. Yes
3. That's entirely up to you. I'm still running the stock spring in mine, with a reversed piston sleeve and a tophat from mike.
4. Yes. It's the best money you'll ever spend on your gun. PERIOD.
I think you'll find that the gun will shoot pretty close to what you want, or, a little hotter.
As long as you're getting your trigger done, get a tophat and a new seal from mike, also. The factory piston seals are usually chewed up.
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I was looking at those. Screaming deal.
Yes it is the Diana T05 clone. Same air rifle as the XS-25 and Air Hawk/Black Hawk in a different stock.
Yes, the PG2 kit will fit.
I have a Ruger Air Hawk and a PG2 kit waiting to go. Trouble is, I also have a Diana T06 34. I can't decide which air rifle is more worthy of the PG2 kit. The D34 is already an awesome air rifle. Do I make the D34 even more awesome with the PG2 kit or bring the Air Hawk up closer to the level of the D34? Decisions, decisions...
Mike can do the second screw mod. It's the same trigger as the XS-25. (Or do it yourself if you can drill and tap a straight hole)
Interested to see what you decide and how you find the results.
Jon
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Hey Chris, you're gonna love it.
#1- yes it's a clone of the 34
#4- yes (though I have not personally done it so you may want to talk to him first)
Later, if you want to change things up Mike's got a few parts available. I changed mine to .22 by changing out the barrel assembly. I also changed the stock to wood because the fore grip bit into my hand after a while.
Eventually I chopped the barrel down (5" I think) and shortened the stock. It's an incredible Carbine now, one of my favorite rifles to shoot!
Blue
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I think you'll find that the gun will shoot pretty close to what you want, or, a little hotter.
As long as you're getting your trigger done, get a tophat and a new seal from mike, also. The factory piston seals are usually chewed up.
Ok, thanks for the info. I will be sure to get a tophat from Mike.
I have a Ruger Air Hawk and a PG2 kit waiting to go. Trouble is, I also have a Diana T06 34. I can't decide which air rifle is more worthy of the PG2 kit. The D34 is already an awesome air rifle. Do I make the D34 even more awesome with the PG2 kit or bring the Air Hawk up closer to the level of the D34? Decisions, decisions...
Simple fix, buy another PG2 kit...
Hey Chris, you're gonna love it.
#1- yes it's a clone of the 34
#4- yes (though I have not personally done it so you may want to talk to him first)
Later, if you want to change things up Mike's got a few parts available. I changed mine to .22 by changing out the barrel assembly. I also changed the stock to wood because the fore grip bit into my hand after a while.
Eventually I chopped the barrel down (5" I think) and shortened the stock. It's an incredible Carbine now, one of my favorite rifles to shoot!
Blue
Thanks for the info. A carbine sounds sick, but I just got done making my XS12 a carbine, so this will be a "tactical" build.
So a few more questions then.
1) Does the Vortek PG2 kit come with all the seals I need? Meaning, when I send my trigger group to Mike, I only need to order a tophat from him and not any seals, right? For that matter, what exactly does the Vortek PG2 kit come with?
2) Does anyone know where I can find a schematic for the 34/B25/'Hawk platform?
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This help? I have PDF's of the XS-25 and Blackhawk, too large to post. Email?
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When I open the picture in a new tab it is big enough. Thanks!
Can the trigger group be removed without a spring compressor?
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Chris I have a Blackhawk that I did myself. Yes you definitely need a spring compressor. Next thing is talk to Mike He walked me thru the tune and mine turned out great.
If I can be of anymore help let me know
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K. We had a family death, so I'm trying to find someone who can build me a compressor since I'm not going to have the time or the willpower at this point.
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Chris,
I think I used the B-18/19 tuning guide Bob/CDT put out as a guide, the steps are basically the same for a basic tune and maintenance.
There's a guide in the library, I also remember googling CDT B-18/19 tuning to find his guide outside of the GTA library.
The trigger is different so it doesn't have info on doing the 2 screw mod but it sets you up to do everything else to make it a beautiful shooter.
I get my seals and springs from Jim Maccari/Air Rifle Headquarters (anything that says it fits RWS 34) along with lubes. For barrels, stocks, breech seals (although a search will yield the correct o-ring info), breech seal shims, and other miscellaneous parts I'd call Mike and see what he has.
My Airhawk was my first of the platform. I've replaced the stock spring (after it got soft after many thousands of rounds) and piston seal, other than that (I think) she's stock and she's beautiful. A little long and nose heavy but shoots great rested. If I needed to shoot it off hand more, I'd think about shortening the barrel (you actually pick up a little speed) but since I don't have to she's staying as is. Her name is "Baby", and she is very good to me.
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yess!!! Excited to see updates on this thread! :)
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K. We had a family death, so I'm trying to find someone who can build me a compressor since I'm not going to have the time or the willpower at this point.
Sorry for the loss. My compressor cost $12 in parts to build.... The hardest part was cutting the c clamp so get one that's relatively thin. Someone could build it for you but you're gonna spend at least $30-40. Mine took about 6 hours to make and was my first wood project so you should really consider doing it yourself after everything settles down.
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K. We had a family death, so I'm trying to find someone who can build me a compressor since I'm not going to have the time or the willpower at this point.
Sorry for the loss. My compressor cost $12 in parts to build.... The hardest part was cutting the c clamp so get one that's relatively thin. Someone could build it for you but you're gonna spend at least $30-40. Mine took about 6 hours to make and was my first wood project so you should really consider doing it yourself after everything settles down.
Thanks for the thought. It was unexpected for sure.
$12 and some woodworking actually sounds therapeutic the more and more I think about it. Would you mind doing a quick write up of how you did yours? Also, I don't even understand how a spring compressor works. I understand that it compresses the spring (duh) but how does the piston sit in the compressor. Anybody got a picture? Thanks again.
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K. We had a family death, so I'm trying to find someone who can build me a compressor since I'm not going to have the time or the willpower at this point.
Sorry for the loss. My compressor cost $12 in parts to build.... The hardest part was cutting the c clamp so get one that's relatively thin. Someone could build it for you but you're gonna spend at least $30-40. Mine took about 6 hours to make and was my first wood project so you should really consider doing it yourself after everything settles down.
Thanks for the thought. It was unexpected for sure.
$12 and some woodworking actually sounds therapeutic the more and more I think about it. Would you mind doing a quick write up of how you did yours? Also, I don't even understand how a spring compressor works. I understand that it compresses the spring (duh) but how does the piston sit in the compressor. Anybody got a picture? Thanks again.
It was actually fun and I actually felt proud after building something useful haha. I pretty much followed the directions from Kermit airgun but I made it simpler and left out the U bolt. You'll need a drill and screws to secure the wood and a saw to cut the clamp/wood. I used power tools so it went fast. http://www.kermitairgunclub.com/airguntips/compressor/ (http://www.kermitairgunclub.com/airguntips/compressor/) - mine is a lot simpler and once you start building you'll find ways to make it easier than the directions. The clamp basically puts pressure on the rear spring guide and let's you take it out and in slowly.
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That doesn't look too bad. I'll pick up the parts when the gun comes and throw it together.
A quick question for you Jon. Here is the kit I'm looking at.
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/RWS-Diana34 (http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/RWS-Diana34)
You said that you have one of these kits already. What is the Proseal-28? Do I need one in the kit? And does the kit come with a replacement breech and piston seal? Thanks.
longhunter, what does reversing the piston sleeve do?
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heres my saved links on the second screw mod
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,39090.msg364177.html#msg364177 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,39090.msg364177.html#msg364177)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=63100.0;topicseen (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=63100.0;topicseen)
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That doesn't look too bad. I'll pick up the parts when the gun comes and throw it together.
A quick question for you Jon. Here is the kit I'm looking at.
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/RWS-Diana34 (http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/RWS-Diana34)
You said that you have one of these kits already. What is the Proseal-28? Do I need one in the kit? And does the kit come with a replacement breech and piston seal? Thanks.
longhunter, what does reversing the piston sleeve do?
Reversing the sleeve helps.to keep the piston aligned in the cylinder, smoothing out the shot cycle. By reducing vibration from the piston traveling down the cylinder.
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A quick question for you Jon. Here is the kit I'm looking at.
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/RWS-Diana34 (http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/RWS-Diana34)
That's the kit I have and the one you want.
You said that you have one of these kits already. What is the Proseal-28? Do I need one in the kit? And does the kit come with a replacement breech and piston seal? Thanks.
It comes with a spring, Vortek spring guide, breech seal, piston seal and a small jar of spring lube. Proseal-28 is the piston seal (for 28mm diameter compression tubes). Except for the spring compressor it is everything you need.
I think I'll put the Vortek kit in the Diana 34 and go with Mike's top hat and reversed spring guide in the Air Hawk. That is until I have enough spare change to buy another PG2 kit for the Air Hawk. :)
Jon
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Chris - Please accept my heartfelt condolences for your loss.
Chris and everyone else - As a AG newbie who is just a couple of hundred rounds away from breaking in his Umarex Surge (RBE in a different dress)... You guys are killing me. I'm drooling. Am I right in understanding that besides increasing performance the PG2 helps reduce the spring noise? Worse yet, tune the Surge or get a .22 XS25 next? Time to walk away and go shoot. ;D
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Scott, is that sleeve part number 35 in the diagram that Jon posted? Thanks.
Thanks for the detailed info Jon. Will I need moly lube, tar, etc?
Thanks for the condolences checkbit. From what I have read (keep in mind I haven't done this yet) the PG2 kit will quiet the gun down AND lead to an increase in velocity, as well as consistency.
I would vote tune the Surge and drop in a PG2. You can convert the Surge to .22 later with parts from Mike Melick, so I would tune the Surge up nice first. Of course, I hate having more than one project going at a time. I whipped out collared dove decoys in two days so I wouldn't have to deal with it once the RBE arrives. (the thread on those decoys is coming to the hunting section near you shortly)
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That sounds like the perfect plan to me, Chris. Thanks. I'm looking forward to learning everything I can about this sport.
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I put a PG2 kit in my Blackhawk Elite a few weeks back and all I used for a spring compressor was a long pipe clamp and a block of wood. That was with the barrel removed from the action. The pipe clamp itself did not provide quite enough compression, so I compressed the spring a little bit by hand and slipped the block of wood in between the end of the spring and the clamp, if that makes any sense.
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Chris, first off let me extend my condolences to you and your family. I lost my father a year ago, last January, and my mother just this past spring, so, I know what you and your family are going through. Best thing I've found is to remember the good times and try not to concentrate on the loss.
And, yes, that is part number 35 that I was referring to. If you get a vortek kit, you will remove.that part altogether.
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Buckle up checkbit, it is incredibly fun, but it will drain your wallet! I wasn't planning on getting this rifle at all. I saw the deal, searched for a discount code, and bought it. Fastest I've ever spent $50. :D
Thanks for the information Dave. I'm going to build something a little more permanent.
Thank you Scott. This is the only forum I've ever seen where members actually care how other members are doing. Logging into chat is like going to the family reunion. Thank you again.
I hadn't thought about what parts I'll be replacing. Besides the breech seals, what parts am I replacing? Obviously I'm replacing the spring, but parts like part no. 35 that just get removed?
Anyway, thanks to all of you! I'm excited to get the rifle. AGD ships from Utah from what I've heard so I should have it real quick.
EDIT: The rifle is scheduled to arrive today! Since my girlfriend decided she needed space, my Friday nights are open! Break in happening in T-10 hours!
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It's here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OHMYGOSHOHMYGOSHOHMYGOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahem... It has arrived. It's loud, and sprays like a shotgun, but I love it. Pictures coming after I get off work.
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It's here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OHMYGOSHOHMYGOSHOHMYGOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahem... It has arrived. It's loud, and sprays like a shotgun, but I love it. Pictures coming after I get off work.
A diamond in the rough!
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Hopefully! I'm on break, but I don't remember working! I can't wait to get into this rifle!
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Yaaayyyyy! This is very exciting!! Pics!! :D
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Yaaayyyyy! This is very exciting!! Pics!! :D
Remember the whole "pics after I get back from work" part?!
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Aint it great to have an excuse to shoot that Hawk all weekend?
Have a good time and dont get frustrated. It will get better. My Blackhawk really likes the destroyers Go figure
Hope all is well
Tommy
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Grrr! Girlfriend called while I was on my break. Wants to talk after work.
I will come back for you Blackhawk...
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Grrr! Girlfriend called while I was on my break. Wants to talk after work.
I will come back for you Blackhawk...
She probably thinks you're spending too much time with your air rifles and ignoring her. ;D
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Hehehehe! This makes me laugh! I didn't even tell my fiance that I bought my scope yet! Guess maybe she'll be wondering where our money is :/
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Grrr! Girlfriend called while I was on my break. Wants to talk after work.
I will come back for you Blackhawk...
She probably thinks you're spending too much time with your air rifles and ignoring her. ;D
There's just something about my China dolls...
(XS12 and BHE)
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Ok, the girlfriend is appeased and I have turned my attention back to my BHET (Blackhawk Elite Tactical) Here is the moment we have all been waiting for! Not really, it got dark so the photos are crappy, so I will take better ones tomorrow.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0582_zpsfae158c5.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0583_zps5c2c1ba9.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0581_zps287e5538.jpg)
I really, really hope this thing quiets down with a tune. It is a blast to shoot, but it is loud!
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I held that gun in my hands at walmart - feels nice right, like you want to point it at something.... Man I was so close to getting it several times haha. Maybe when there's a gas piston version I'll jump on it.
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That's the only thing I don't like. I wish there was a gas ram kit for the 34 and clones. But I'm told it can be made into a sweet shooter with a tune and that PG2 kit.
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Even after a thorough barrel cleaning, the first shot with my Surge sounded like a .32. Then a handful of 7.4gr pellets went supersonic after that but she settled down a bit after a couple of dozen rounds.
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Thanks for the info Brady! I am at work (baggy eyed and droopy tailed) until noon thirty today. I will get some more pellets downrange afterwards. I'm starting my compressor today!
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If I remember correctly, the RWS 34 Magnum is the same as the Ruger Magnum (1400+fps model) can you not use the same powerplant :)
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If I remember correctly, the RWS 34 Magnum is the same as the Ruger Magnum (1400+fps model) can you not use the same powerplant :)
Depends if the Magnum and Blackhawk are the same internally, besides the ram of course. I don't want to put in a huge ol' gas ram if the internals arent strong enough to take it. And I'd like to keep it around 950 fps with 7.9 grain pellets. 800-850 with 10.5 grain. Only 2.5 more hours of work!!!!
I'm going to start with the XS12 first as it has some buzz. Am I going to need tar, lube, etc to get rid of that buzz?
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Oh alright, I understand :)
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Depends if the Magnum and Blackhawk are the same internally, besides the ram of course. I don't want to put in a huge ol' gas ram if the internals arent strong enough to take it.
If I remember correctly, the 34 and clones can't accept a gas ram, you'll have to make do with a wire spring.
Blue
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That's okay. With the Vortek kit, it should shoot nice with a spring.
I am building my compressor now. Got it all cut out; just gotta screw everything together.
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IIRC the ruger air mag is a "clone" of the RWS 350 .
here's a interesting conversation about gas pistons .......
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=50162.msg475152;topicseen#msg475152 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=50162.msg475152;topicseen#msg475152)
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Gah! Finally done with my compressor. Here is a pic of the compressor and some better pics of the gun.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0586_zps92aeb3f9.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0589_zps93a666ee.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0590_zpsbce3c3a0.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0588_zps4a274f93.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0587_zpsc92d8011.jpg)
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Hehehehe! This makes me laugh! I didn't even tell my fiance that I bought my scope yet! Guess maybe she'll be wondering where our money is :/
She's only your fiancé and she already has you calling it " our " money??? You are so screwed.
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I wasn't going to be the one to say it, but good luck Ali!
I kid, I kid.
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That is a mighty fine lookin compressor Chris Nice job Now you will get to know that hawk very well and you can tune it to yourself
Enjoy and keep your head up
Tommy
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Just thought I'd throw a picture of mine in for inspiration.
I put the section of barrel out front for reference. I also included the old stock so you can see what they look like with a home camo job.
I like the idea of having a synthetic stock for a field gun so I keep it as a potential future project.
Can't wait to see what you do with yours.
Blue
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Thanks for the encouragement Tommy!
Blue, that's a sweet camo job! I'm not going to chop the barrel, but I will probably recrown it. Is it just one set screw to get the brake off?
With a PG2 kit, do I also need one of Mike's tophats?
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Very very nice gun and compressor. Make sure you use a belt on that to keep the gun down TIGHTLY. I had a mishap yesterday where it jumped up and the guide was able to shoot out with the spring. Luckily it was facing away from me. I'm gonna add another belt to mine to make it tight.
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Very very nice gun and compressor. Make sure you use a belt on that to keep the gun down TIGHTLY. I had a mishap yesterday where it jumped up and the guide was able to shoot out with the spring. Luckily it was facing away from me. I'm gonna add another belt to mine to make it tight.
I have a U bolt with rubber tubing over it between the two barrel supports. Not shown in the picture.
I decided to shoot for some groups this evening, now that I have ~200 pellets through it, and the results were very interesting. Photos and elaboration in the morning!
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Is it just one set screw to get the brake off?
Just the one screw but I think it had some kind of adhesive that was doing the real job of holding it in place.
I had to tap it off (not as easy as just "tapping" but you get the idea) with a block of wood and mallet. I found that curse words act as a bit of a lubricant, your results may vary.
Blue
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Very very nice gun and compressor. Make sure you use a belt on that to keep the gun down TIGHTLY. I had a mishap yesterday where it jumped up and the guide was able to shoot out with the spring. Luckily it was facing away from me. I'm gonna add another belt to mine to make it tight.
I have a U bolt with rubber tubing over it between the two barrel supports. Not shown in the picture.
I decided to shoot for some groups this evening, now that I have ~200 pellets through it, and the results were very interesting. Photos and elaboration in the morning!
yes, please tell! How are the groups!? What distance were you shooting? :)
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Okay, ready for this! I was shooting at ten yards, just destroying a pop can until I got to 500 shots. At ~200 shots, I decided to shoot for groups with my next break in session, so I did. One cold bore shot, then 5 shots went into a single .33" hole. This this is going to be a shooter! I'm working on posting the photo now.
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Tada!!!!!!!!
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0592_zpsc18f5e0a.jpg)
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Tada!!!!!!!!
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0592_zpsc18f5e0a.jpg)
now that is some impressive stuff! Much better! :D
Hehehehe! This makes me laugh! I didn't even tell my fiance that I bought my scope yet! Guess maybe she'll be wondering where our money is :/
She's only your fiancé and she already has you calling it " our " money??? You are so screwed.
I wasn't going to be the one to say it, but good luck Ali!
I kid, I kid.
haha well to be honest, it's me telling her it's our money! :P
I'm not worried, she's very understanding hahaha
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what was the range of those five shots? :P
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15 yards. I'm shipping the trigger group to Mike tomorrow. But I need to get it out. Disassembly instructions anyone?
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15 yards. I'm shipping the trigger group to Mike tomorrow. But I need to get it out. Disassembly instructions anyone?
Real simple. Put gun in compressor. Take off plastic endcap. Pull safety lever out. Now you're looking at the back end of the trigger assembly. Screw compressor in just enough to take pressure off the two pins that go through the receiver. Push the pins out with a drift punch. ( if they give you a hard time, increase or decrease tension while pushing on pins ). They usually slide out pretty easily. Now back off the compressor while holding on to the trigger group. It's that simple.
Put the pins back in the trigger group and wrap a little tape around them, so they don't fall out.
DON'T take the black plastic sleeve off the trigger group!! Not unless you want to be picking parts up off the floor. Mail everything to mike and set back , wait for the magic package to arrive.
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15 yards. I'm shipping the trigger group to Mike tomorrow. But I need to get it out. Disassembly instructions anyone?
Real simple. Put gun in compressor. Take off plastic endcap. Pull safety lever out. Now you're looking at the back end of the trigger assembly. Screw compressor in just enough to take pressure off the two pins that go through the receiver. Push the pins out with a drift punch. ( if they give you a hard time, increase or decrease tension while pushing on pins ). They usually slide out pretty easily. Now back off the compressor while holding on to the trigger group. It's that simple.
Put the pins back in the trigger group and wrap a little tape around them, so they don't fall out.
DON'T take the black plastic sleeve off the trigger group!! Not unless you want to be picking parts up off the floor. Mail everything to mike and set back , wait for the magic package to arrive.
Clear instructions, thank you! I'm going to send that off to Mike and order a PG2 kit tomorrow! Single piece mount also comes tomorrow. Now I just gotta find the right scope!
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And she's out! HUGE thank you to you Scott! Here is what I have. Is this what I send to Mike?
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0593_zps5ad261f9.jpg)
Here is a pic of the workbench! I'm officially hooked on this tinkering thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/DSCN0595_zps74b47668.jpg)
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Sorry to triple post, but I'm still a little confused. Will I need/want one of Mike's tophats in addition to the Vortek PG2 kit? If I do, will Mike's tophat replace part number 38 in the diagram that Jon posted?
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=72561.0;attach=88541;image)
Also, I tore the gun down the rest of the way. Much simpler than I was thinking. This is fun!
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Put the pins back in the trigger group and wrap a little tape around them, so they don't fall out.
Before you ship the trigger group to Mike, measure the diameter of those two receiver pins. You will need two more just like them but shorter to get the trigger back into the compression tube! Make the re-assembly pins the same length as the diameter of the trigger group. Put them in the holes where the long pins are now. They should be long enough to hold everything in the trigger group in place but short enough so they don't stick out either side of the trigger group.
Now you can push the trigger group back into the compression tube with your spring compressor without anything in the trigger falling out of position. When the holes in the trigger group line up with the holes in the compression tube, use the long receiver pins to push out the short re-assembly pins.
I found a cheap philips screw driver in my junk box that was exactly the diameter of the receiver pins. It made two nice re-assembly pins. A couple of drill bit shanks the right diameter and cut to length work too.
Jon
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Good advice on the pins Jon. I "found" mine at the local hardware store in the spares container for door closers. They even are tapered on one end for ease of use.
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Thanks for the tip! I was under the impression that, as long as the black sleeve (part no. 39) was on, I was good to put it back in without pins.
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Sorry to triple post, but I'm still a little confused. Will I need/want one of Mike's tophats in addition to the Vortek PG2 kit? If I do, will Mike's tophat replace part number 38 in the diagram that Jon posted?
No, the pg2 kit will replace the spring and rear guide, as well as the piston liner. You won't need a tophat from Mike. The kit will have one in it.
Did you order the kit with the piston seal?
Also, let me know if you want to get rid of the factory spring and rear guide ( part # 38 ).i wouldn't mind having a spare set.
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I haven't ordered the kit yet. I was planning on getting the piston seal. Should I not?
I will let you know if I decide to dump the spring and guide.
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Sorry to triple post, but I'm still a little confused. Will I need/want one of Mike's tophats in addition to the Vortek PG2 kit? If I do, will Mike's tophat replace part number 38 in the diagram that Jon posted?
Nope. Top hat and reversed sleeve or PG2 kit, not both. You keep spring guide #38 with the top hat and reversed sleeve. You replace #38 with the spring guides that come in the PG2 kit.
The short pins make getting the receiver pins back in much easier. The safety in the trigger group can get in the way of the pins going in and without the short pins to guide them you can accidentally damage the safety by forcing the pins.
Needing a new piston seal depends on the condition of the original. Any score marks or other damage to the seal?
Jon
Sorry Scott, didn't see your post about the top hat.
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I haven't ordered the kit yet. I was planning on getting the piston seal. Should I not?
I will let you know if I decide to dump the spring and guide.
Definitely get the seal. And, be careful when you install it. If you look closely at the factory seal, you'll understand.
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I already understand. My piston seal is chewed up! There is a sharp spot on the main tube. I will shoot some close up pics and post them. I want to sand it down smooth, but I need to check with you all to make sure it can be sanded down without affecting function.
Anybody got a guide on what I should lube and sand and whatnot while I'm in the guts of my gun?
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http://www.charliedatuna.com/airgun_docs/B19%20Super%20Tune.doc (http://www.charliedatuna.com/airgun_docs/B19%20Super%20Tune.doc)
Read the section called "The Receiver". Even though the article is about B-18/19's, the same basics apply. You can cross hatch the cylinder and de-burr all the stamped slots while it's all apart if you want, your piston seal will thank you. Also polish the washers and spring ends while they're out. I'd just do the whole supertune (as much as apples to the 34 clones). You can get the specific lubes from Air Rifle Headquarters (if you don't have them already), and SuperLube is available online or at Ace Hardware.
If you think she's sweet now, just wait until you knock the rough edges off.
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If you order lubes from ARH, look for his bundle. He's got the three things you want (clear tar, heavy tar, and moly paste) in a bundle that saves you a few bucks.
You can use some of the moly paste to make Gene Sunday's Mystery Oil.
Also search for info about some alternate lubes some of the folks are using like Krytox. I have no experience with it, but it sounds like another option you could try if you want.
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I will find that bundle.
This one?
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/4169286.htm (http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/4169286.htm)
Tack on another $23. This project is getting expensive!
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Yeah, if you want all three.
I skipped the clear tar and it's so much better after using just the moly and heavy tar I can't imagine things get that much better with the few areas the clear tar goes but I personally don't know.
You'll have enough to do many more lubes in the future and the moly paste (and Mystery Oil you can make) can be used on your other guns.
I look at it as an investment in proper maintenance supplies.
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Ordered the Vortek kit and lubes tonight. Sending trigger group to Mike in the morning. Now I just gotta figure out what scope to top it with...
I'm hoping to get it all back together this Friday. Hopefully, the loud twang and buzz will be reduced to a dull thud.
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I've had good luck with the center point adventure class 4-16x40. You can pick them up at wallyworld under a hundred bucks.
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I've had good luck with the center point adventure class 4-16x40. You can pick them up at wallyworld under a hundred bucks.
wow! Mine stunk :( Wouldn't focus past 8x
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I'm thinking about a Leapers Bugbuster.
Or I might just grab a 3-9 from Mike. I don't need mildots since all my hunting is done within the 1/2" killzone zero.
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Good advice on the pins Jon. I "found" mine at the local hardware store in the spares container for door closers. They even are tapered on one end for ease of use.
Jon,
X2 on the good advice. those short pins are an awesome idea!!
thanks
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Now the wait for parts...
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I'm thinking about a Leapers Bugbuster.
Or I might just grab a 3-9 from Mike. I don't need mildots since all my hunting is done within the 1/2" killzone zero.
you might have a problem getting the bugbuster set far enough back to get proper eye relief. better to stick with a full size scope.
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Now the wait for parts...
I'm still at this stage :( Ordered some stuff from the UK! Baaaaad idea! Takes like 2 weeks! :(
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Alright, ordered a 3-9 from Mike. Everything *should* be here by Friday, except the trigger group. I will be tearing down my XS12 to put some tar on the spring due to some buzz.
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can't wait to see how this turns out.
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Me neither. I'm super excited! I'm currently looking for a shroud that will fit. I love the look of the Gamo Bull Whisper Extreme barrel, but I'm not sure if that is a shroud, or a full barrel covering.
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Me neither. I'm super excited! I'm currently looking for a shroud that will fit. I love the look of the Gamo Bull Whisper Extreme barrel, but I'm not sure if that is a shroud, or a full barrel covering.
why don't you get a plain shroud like mine?
(http://i.imgur.com/9ONAbTW.jpg)
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I like contours on my shrouds...
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Next is to figure out if there is a way to make the Stoeger ATAC stock fit.
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I like contours on my shrouds...
How handy are you and what equipment do you have?
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I'm handy with no equipment.
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I'm handy with no equipment.
Never mind then.
;D
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Yup, it's sad isn't it?
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Oooh. THAT is a sexy rifle!
To Chris and everyone who has contributed to this thread, I want to thank you. There has been a lot of great information shared here and I am benefiting quite a bit from it. I'm very excited to see the end result. Keep it coming and don't be stingy with the pics! ;)
why don't you get a plain shroud like mine?
(http://i.imgur.com/9ONAbTW.jpg)
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That's what this forum is all about. Sharing what we've learned, so others can benefit, as well.
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Yup, it's sad isn't it?
It's even sadder that I am not handy with NO tools! :'( (Maybe I am safer that way) ::) :P :-[ ;D
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Me neither. I'm super excited! I'm currently looking for a shroud that will fit. I love the look of the Gamo Bull Whisper Extreme barrel, but I'm not sure if that is a shroud, or a full barrel covering.
why don't you get a plain shroud like mine?
(http://i.imgur.com/9ONAbTW.jpg)
I see you got the scope to fit. Looks like my Eclipse. I'm not risking that scope, at least until I know Dusky won't tear them up.
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I even got better 6 bolt rings on it now hahaha
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I see you got the scope to fit. Looks like my Eclipse. I'm not risking that scope, at least until I know Dusky won't tear them up.
Got about 50-75 shots with this scope on this rifle thus far! Will let you know George ;)
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So, I figured out what destroyed the OEM piston seal. Can I just sand this down smooth?
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/2014-08-15101621_zps4bab72d3.jpg)
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So, I figured out what destroyed the OEM piston seal. Can I just sand this down smooth?
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/2014-08-15101621_zps4bab72d3.jpg)
Wow that's ridiculous.... It shouldn't have left the factory like that but yeah sanding is the right decision.
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yes yes yes and look for more in every factory cutout. A dremel stone works great and after go ahead and put a little moly there.
Y
Tommy
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I'm going to go through it very carefully tonight. My Vortek kit is supposed to arrive today. Then we are just waiting for Mike's magic trigger package to come back.
Yesterday, I received the scope, mount, lubes, loctite, hex key set, set screws for another project I'm doing, and Krytech for lubing pellets. It was like Christmas in August.
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Had some free time so I went through and sanded all the rough edges. Now to figure out how to crosshatch...
I'm amazed the gun shot the groups it did with this seal...
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/2014-08-15140037_zps4524e2c4.jpg)
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You really are going ALL out on this one! :D
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You really are going ALL out on this one! :D
You haven't seen the half of it...
I've got three tricks up my sleeve.
;)
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Had some free time so I went through and sanded all the rough edges. Now to figure out how to crosshatch...
I'm amazed the gun shot the groups it did with this seal...
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz287/footballplayerchris/2014-08-15140037_zps4524e2c4.jpg)
Looks like a dog chewed on it. :o
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You really are going ALL out on this one! :D
You haven't seen the half of it...
I've got three tricks up my sleeve.
;)
Only 3?? ::) :P ;D
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Well, I got it all back together and...the sear doesn't engage. I cock it and it won't engage. The screw closest to the trigger blade is to adjust first stage right? I have no idea what the farther screw is for.
Somebody got any ideas?
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if it wont latch when cocking it could be a few things by any chance did you install Mikes tophat if so did you remove the thickkness of the tophat from the spring guide, if that ain't it, the screw closest to the trigger blade is stage 2 the one furthest from the trigger blade is probably turned in to far, turn it out about 2 turns and see if that helps, then work you way back it till you get it where you like it.
Chet
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Thank you Chet. Turns out I needed to hold the trigger down while sliding in the safety. Then I had to adjust the furthest screw out. It works now!
The shot cycle is night and day! Before I put in the Vortek PG2 kit, it was so harsh and loud that I wanted to wear earpro while shooting it. Now it is just a solid, and I mean solid, thump! I will do a full write up later.
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UCC,
This is the best visual I've seen that explains how the two screws in a two stage trigger should work together.
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VERY helpful John. Thank you!!!
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Well, first 10 shot group at 25 yards was 4.5" ctc with 6/10 in a 1.5" ctc spread.
Gotta break this in quick! It's coming with me on my dove hunt, in two weeks, to knock out those yummy Eurasians!
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good progress! :)
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I got mine today. Before I fired it I tore it down for a meeting with the files, sandpaper, mineral spirits and moly. My breech seal was in bad shape but the piston seal is OK. I added a .005" shim under the pivot washers and tomorrow may add another .002 to snug up the play. I sanded and polished up the spring ends a little while in there. I am lucky that I have no barrel droop at all. Right now I'm getting 870s with the. 7.9 and under 1" at 28yds. Promising indeed. Oh, why did the even bother adding the 4x32 scope. I put on my CP 4-16x40AO using a Weaver 3/8 to a Weaver adaptor mounts with Weaver low rings. These adaptors allow adjustment for windage. Nice. I centered my scope on the bench, adjusted the adaptor mounts and have yet to adjust the scope at all. I'm consistently nailing my 1" spinners at 28yds and there's less than 100 rounds through it.
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How is this project going anyways!? :D
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Mine is no longer a project. It is now officially a keeper! At 27 yds I have 10 shots in 5/8" with boxed CPLs.
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Mine is no longer a project. It is now officially a keeper! At 27 yds I have 10 shots in 5/8" with boxed CPLs.
Oddly enough, mine liked the CPL's too.
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Chris's project is now my project.....I'm checking a few things on it and taking it out later, I'll let you know what I think. I moved the scope and swapped rings until I get new screws for the 1pc mount. I got this for the grand kid to shoot. I don't know what a stock one is like to cock but the Vortek spring is harder than I would have thought. I'll do a so so sight in before I leave to get it close. I told Chris my plan was if the kid has a hard time cocking it I plan on trying the stock spring first, then maybe cut a coil or two off the stock spring until he can cock it better. When I see he can cock it safely with the Vortek spring I'll put it back in. He shoots my RWS 94 so so and I can tell you the Vortek spring in this is stiffer than the Maccari spring in the RWS.
BTW.......Thanks Chris....
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Having shot the RWS 94 and my a Ruger with a stock spring, I'd say the 94 is about 5 lbs easier to cock. It may be more but the Ruger has the blob to help as a handle.
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That Vortek is indeed stout to cock. At least it is smooth though. I can't imagine stout and gritty. Nasty...
JR, you are going to have to move the piston seal over from the Vortek kit, since the OEM seal was beyond saving.
Edit: Nevermind, I'm dumb. You're just switching out springs...
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OK....did a little test drive yesterday.....shot a few across the Chrony and put about 70 shots through it. Chris didn't have a Chrony so he didn't have any numbers, I tried a few different pellets. The lightest were Beeman 7.1 gr, then CPHP 7.9 gr and Crossman heavy 10.5 gr.
First few shots with the CPHP were 780'ish FPS, I thought that seemed a little low so I checked the breech seal. The seal wasn't much more than flush so I pulled it out and replaced it with a shim behind the new seal. The next shots were 830 FPS, so the new seal helped a little. I really don't know how many shots this new set of guts has on it but these are the numbers for now.
CPHP 7.9 gr Ave......831 ES.......14
Destroyer 7.9 gr Ave......828 ES.......10
Crosman 10.5 gr Ave.......731 ES.....24
Beeman 7.1 gr Ave........863 ES.....32
CPL 7.9 gr Ave....834 ES.....12
I shot a few shots at 28 ft. CPHP did fairly well as did Destroyers and the CPL that Chris gave me. All three pellets were about quarter size 10 shot groups. Not bad considering I haven't shot this gun before. The Crossman 10.5 gr did very poor, like 4-5 inch poor, it doesn't not like these pellets. The Beeman 7.1 gr didn't do much better than the 10.5 gr did.
One thing I did notice while shooting it was how I had to cock it to get it to latch the sear. It didn't do it every time but most of the time. You more or less have to jam it at the end of the cocking travel to get it to latch. Most have a little over travel after it cocks, this one has something preventing it from latching like I think it should. I don't know what this gun is like out of the box but I assume it should latch easier.
So I take it out shooting/take the dog for a run down to the river bottoms. I walk up top for about 2 miles and she runs all over and covers 5 miles. I go there 3-4 times a week and take a pellet gun every time I go. I know what the ranges are because I have checked with my range finder, longest is 131 yards. I started shooting at a spot I know is 50 yds, I shot CPHP the whole time. It took about 20-25 shots to get the scope where I wanted it, but it shot pretty good 2 inch'ish. I adjust my scopes so I hold just under POI, I then shot at 75 yds, I was hitting about 1 in low so I adjusted the scope. I was still hitting about 2 inch'ish groups so I went out to 131 yds. Shooting this far I was hitting 3 in low so I adjusted the scope a little more. Just as a side note the REX scope still had 4 more turns before it maxed out at this range. So shooting at 131 yds out of 32 shots most hit within 4 in group, yes there were a few fliers but not bad for that range. I was shooting at a white rock in the mud I would guess was golf ball size. I wasn't giving up until I hit it and on try 32 I knocked it in the mud out of sight.
Over all not a bad little gun, I'll see today if the grandkid can cock it or if I need to detune it. I am going to tear into it and see why the sear isn't latching, that is not a good thing. I have tried adjusting the screws but you still have to cock it hard to get the sear to latch. The stock rubs the barrel when cocking a little so I am also going to shim that out so it doesn't rub. I think it will make a good step up for him when I get the sear deal worked out. It weighs a little more than I though but not to bad, he packed and shot my RWS the other day for 2 hrs.
We'll see how today go's and I'll report back on if I need to detune it.
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Just got back from spitting a few boxed CPLs over the chrony. A consistent 875-880. I have a stock refurb Blackhawk Elite using a very tiny bit of Honda 60 Moly paste mixed with moly powder on the rear end of the piston and dry moly everywhere else on the piston. Been shooting these numbers since new. Figure I have 500+ through it by now oh, and 1/2" groups at 25 yds too.
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I would like to have those numbers but up here at 4800 above sea level we loose a few FPS.
Well, just had him cock it and shoot it a little so I know where to start messing with it. He can cock it but struggles more than he will admit, so I'll try the stock spring and see how much difference there is. Then I'll start removing coils from the stock spring to detune it as I need. As far as holding and aiming it he did ok, hit a pop can at 30 ft seven out of ten times.
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4800'. Holy cow! I did forget we do shoot AIR guns and you are lacking in that department. I'm right about 850 if I'm sitting.
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The sear latch has to do with Mike's trigger mod. It wasn't latching at all, but I adjusted the screws and haven't had a problem since (100 shots or so)
Haha, 56S, the air is a little thin up here. I went rabbit hunting today and it was 5600 feet where I was.
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So this is how they dimple golf balls ;)
This is an aluminum pipe coupler that is part of a tree rat proof bird feeder I'm making for Mrs. 56S. It is placed 23 yds from my favorite shooting spot.
5 shots, boxed domes, not even trying.
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Awesomeeeeee! Staying tuned to see what happens! :)
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That's some good shooting, this one can come close to that but I get flustered with cocking it and they open up.
So...I pulled the Vortek spring and put the stock spring back in, I didn't do anything else, pulled one spring out, put the OEM back in. I took it out and shot it a few times, first thing I notice is the sear catches better, not like I think it should but better than with the Vortek spring. The OEM spring does make more noise, I don't know that I would call it night and day difference. The OEM spring was clean so I did put a small amount of tar on it, not much because I figured I would be pulling back out shortly anyway.
Shooting across the Chrony with the OEM spring......Same 7.9 gr CPHP as before, 10 shots ave. 843, so a little faster than the first shots with the Vortek spring, ES was 27 though.
I then pulled the OEM spring and put the Vortek spring back in. I cocked it a few times and it requires more to get the sear to latch than the OEM spring did. I shot it across the Chony again and I'm getting 800 fps, +/- 8 fps. So I wondered why it was 30 fps lower now...only thing I can think of is that it has had about 300 shots through it since I got it and the seal is worn in better.
So....apart it comes again, I pulled out the spring and this time I removed the piston to see what the seal is like. The seal looks for the most part ok, a couple little bugger marks.
There are 2 things on the piston I wonder about.....
#1...The center latch rod is not centered in the piston...I can force it centered with a screwdrive but it goes back to off center, The rod has splines on it down by the piston head, can I knock the rod out bend it straight and put it back in the piston?...... The mushroom head for the sear latch is kind of buggered up on the top side, which is the side the rod is bent towards.
#2....There is a washer in the bottom of the piston, this washer is a little less the the end of the slot for the cocking rod. I can stick a small screwdriver between the washer and the piston body. Maybe this is normal? Maybe the washer should be 1/2" farther down inside the piston? Maybe it is sticking out to far making the spring over compress when cocking so the rode doesn't travel back into the sear like it should?
So.....you guys with this same gun.....When you cock it, can you hear and/or feel the sear latch before the end of the cocking stroke? Or are they all the same and you have to have a hard stop when cocking to get it to latch? Every gun I own 9? total all have some free travel at the end of the cocking stroke. This gun has none, you can cock it as far back as it will go and ease off and there is no spring tension at all.
Also, nothing against Chris...might have worked fine for him, these are just my findings
Edit....Just got off the phone with Vortek, explained how it latches with both springs and the washer in the piston. He said he doesn't remember a washer being in the piston but if there was he would think it would be at the bottom not 1/4-1/2" back. He said to try it with the top hat off (which I was going to try anyway) That will shorten up the preload by 3/4"ish. If the guts are to long this would solve the latching issue. So that's what I'm trying next, we'll see if it works. The rod being off center isn't helping either
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The muzzle might move an additional 1/2" after latch. Once latched you can pull it back another 1.5-2" I'd guess. Very little done to mine. Took maybe 2mm off the spring ends total to square and polish. No change it washers or guides. Light honda 60 moly on the spring. Biggest improvement was adding shims behind the pivots washers
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Forgot to add. That piston scares me! That is an accident waiting to happen.
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I have the Air Hawk, basically the same rifle. They must have quality issues with piston assembly. My piston had a loose head so I welded it. Then the rod was then slightly off center so I centered it with a rubber mallet. Others say they had loose piston heads and thought it was supposed to be that way so the rod would center itself in the latch. Some welded the head, some leave it loose. Having never seen a purposely loose head before I assume it should be tight. Yours is tight but it got crimped off center. Obviously it is supposed to be centered. Trying to center it with force could loosen the splines. Good luck. If mine came loose I would try drilling a hole and pinning it.
It sounds like there is too much spacing for the length of the spring. Taking out washers or the top hat should resolve the latching problem. Cutting out a coil would work as well. To be safe there needs to be some overthrow past the point where the piston latches to ensure full engagement with the latch. Like having a trigger sear set on the edge of breaking, you don't want the piston latched on the edge of letting go. Sounds potentially dangerous to me.
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Exactly what I think it is, a accident waiting to happen, I'm going to have it in parts again in a minute, need a zipper on it. and yes the piston head is a tad loose. When I force the center rod to center or just past it does flex around the piston head.
So the washer that is down inside...anybody else remember a washer in there? It is just outside of the stake marks on the piston but it looks like it is tight on the splines on the rod and so so tight in the piston with slight pressure by the staking. My first guess was this washer should be on the other side of the stakes on the piston. I can get a small screwdriver behind it in the cocking slot and wiggle it but that's all.
I also backed Mikes extra screw out most of the way, really made no difference in latching, screw it in to far won't latch at all. So it's either barely or not at all.
As a side note....I just shot my Benjamin Trail to compare speed, I would think these two guns would be close in speed. I put the 177 barrel on it a few months ago and have never checked the speed. I have put close to 1000 shots through the 177 barrel, twice that with the 22 cal barrel. I have de-burred it, crosshatched, tapered the transfer port and new seal when it was new. The Trail is shooting CPHP's 904 fps ave. ES of 5 fps, that was 5 shots...was starting to cloud up and rain. The Trail is 100 fps faster, my RWS 94 also is just over 900 fps, my old TF99 is just under 900. So I'm wondering if the rod being off center is making the seal off center, would explain a loss of 100 fps.
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The EVP diagram shows a thrust washer on the spring guide #37 but no washer in the piston. If a thrust washer was added inside the piston it should be loose enough to move freely so the spring can unwind on release without friction. The Air Hawk and Blackhawk part diagrams are the same. Does this photo look like your piston with cocking slot?
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Thanks for the pic...Yep almost exactly like that! mine is just a tad farther out
So I fixed the cocking issue! I removed the top hat off the Vortek sping, just tried it, works like a champ, has about 1/4" over travel at the end of the cocking travel. It works better now than with the stock spring. The top hat is about 5/16 thick, so if I remove about half the thickness it should cock just fine with a little over travel when latched. If not I'll remove a little more.
However..I am beginning to wonder if the speed is slower than it should be, and loosing a little preload isin't going to help that, wondering if the spring was crunched a little the way it was? But if it still shoots around 800, shoots at least as good as it did I'm good with it. At least I feel safe with it now.
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Yep. Mine is this way. Washer is very thin. Just enough to keep the spring end from cutting into the composite. One test I did when new was to chuck the piston in the drill press and I remember being impressed at well centered the latch pin is.
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Thanks for the pic...Yep almost exactly like that! mine is just a tad farther out
So I fixed the cocking issue! I removed the top hat off the Vortek sping, just tried it, works like a champ, has about 1/4" over travel at the end of the cocking travel. It works better now than with the stock spring. The top hat is about 5/16 thick, so if I remove about half the thickness it should cock just fine with a little over travel when latched. If not I'll remove a little more.
However..I am beginning to wonder if the speed is slower than it should be, and loosing a little preload isin't going to help that, wondering if the spring was crunched a little the way it was? But if it still shoots around 800, shoots at least as good as it did I'm good with it. At least I feel safe with it now.
Happy to help and very glad you figured out the cocking issue. My Air Hawk clocks a hair under 900 fps with 8.3 gr Superdome pellets. It is bone stock except for a new Vortek ProSeal Black piston seal.
Jon
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Alright boys and girls just shot 10 shots through it, wwaaaayyy better. Everything is so much better, cocks easier, trigger feels better, shot cycle is just a thump. The trigger screws are way out of whack now, kinda like a Crosman trigger, but you can hear and feel the sear snap into place now! To late to shoot across the chromy so I'll unzip it again and do some tweeking. I know Chris did some de-burring and put the parts in so I'll do a little more. Shave some off the top hat, so it will work, buff the chamber up and taper the transfer port. When I get it back together I'll post what kind of numbers I get out of it. I did tweek the center shaft over a little, fairly close to center now but it does have a bit more wiggle around the head. Hard to tell if the piston seal is on a angle or how much. I figured if I messed it up I'd get a new piston. Might tig it just to feel warm and fuzzy.
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Last question for other owners that I forgot to ask earlier.....Does the cocking linkage always make a clicking sound when you first break the barrel open? It snaps up against the chamber at the roller link, then the link rides the stock the rest of the way through the cocking action. Just wondering if there should be a plastic tap that prevents it from doing that like Crosman and others have. Just wondering, if not maybe I can fab something. Don't see anything on the sketch
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they all do that. it's the nature of the beast.
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Yes. Drove me nuts. Now I don't hear it over the hootin' and hollerin' I hear when I hit my target time and time again.
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I kind of figured that was just how they are, thanks for the info......
I figured before I tore it down I try a few across the Chrony just to see, 10 shots......AVE. of 804 fps, ES 23 fps. Talked to the guy a Vortek again today and asked him if he though the spring might have been weakened by having it compressed as far as it was. He said it shouldn't but to double check everything make sure there are no other issues and go from there.
So now I'll tear it down and mess with it a little. I plan on burning 50-100 shots through it before I check it again when I get it back together.
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Here's an idea. When I put the Vortek seal in the velocity dropped, a lot. From almost 900 fps with a scored seal to about 815 fps. I sized the seal by removing about .005" from the diameter. The velocity returned plus a little. Maybe your piston seal is too tight?
Jon
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I know my seal is tight. I think too tight if compared to my NVD.
I remember reading somewhere that on one instance removing a number of coils actually increased FPS. Not sure why.
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I just got back from checking it out after I got done messing with it and putting about 70 shots through it.........
So......I sanded down the top hat so it is now .180 thick on the spring end. It cocks and latches with a little extra over travel, I now feel good and safe about that.
The piston had wear marks on the rear 1/2" from dragging, the chamber also had some nice marks in it. The piston head has like a washer between the seal and piston, the bottom half was also dragging, the seal showed almost no wear here. I put the piston in my drill press and started with 220 grit and buffed the rear scratches down. I also sanded down the washer sticking out so it is below the seal. I buffed the chamber with a flapper and 220 grit and then finished everything with 400 grit. I also tapered the transfer port a slight amount.
I put it all back together with Krytox on the seal and small amount of tar on the spring. I re-lubed the pivot points and put it all back together, loaded up the dog to go try it out.
The first 5 or so shots had a little ping to them then went away. I just wasted about 25 shots before I even aimed it at anything. It took about another 10 shots to readjust the scope and I started shooting. It shot really well, I readjusted the trigger where I like then backed it off a little for the grand kid.
When I got back home I shot it across the Chony again, Ave. 857 fps with ES of 12 fps with 7.9 gr CPHP, so it's a little better than it was already. As it is now I'm good with it, it shoots good, trigger latches good and just has a thump when you shoot it. At some point I will get a new piston because I know this one isn't as good as it should be. The grandkid will work on cocking it, he just has to get use to it like most people do.
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Those numbers seem quite good with your rarified air. That's right behind my numbers.