GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: NickB79 on July 24, 2014, 08:44:40 AM
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All I've ever used are pumpers, springers, and regular firearms. A PCP is something I've never had experience with.
I see the FD-PCP advertized as a great gun to tinker with, etc, but I'm not really looking to tinker. I'm not so gifted mechanically, and while I want to learn someday, right now I just want to shoot and not worry. Something I can easily get a good number of shots out of at 18-20 fpe for hunting and targets. Hand-pumping isn't a problem though, I'm in good shape for that.
With this in mind, would the FD-PCP be a gun for me? My only other choice would be a Disco. Thanks!
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As nice as the 60c seems to be once people get done tinkering with it, I would lean away if I were you until you were ready to tinker with one.
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;D If you are looking for a PCP to hunt with it and casual plinking /target shooting a .177 or .22 will be fine if larger game is going to be hunted consider a .25. The Marauder is a good place to look not to difficult to hand pump and the .25 Synthetic with the Green Mountain Barrel is both accurate and powerful enough to take Possum and Raccoon out to 50 yards without modification. A few weeks ago I was able to hit a quarter size target at 50 yards 6 out of 8 times and the missed shots were very close to the mark
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If they were in the least bit mechanically inclined I would.
It is my first adult airgun.
A marauder is a fine airgun, but very expensive for someone just getting into a hobby.
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You could order one from Mike and have him tune it for you. That way it comes to your door ready to go, no tinkering needed. The next one on the list, would be a Disco, find the happy fill spot, and shoot it. Just my 2 cents.
Casey
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Will Mike do a tune and get the velocity string where I want it with these guns? I didn't see a "tune" option on his website with the 60C, just if I want to buy the gun or gun/pump combo.
As for a Marauder, I'm staying away from both .25-cal and anything I can't easily hand-pump. I'm not interested in spending extra money on expensive pellets and a scuba tank right now; hence my PCP choices being the two cheapest PCP's on the market. Most of my shooting is targets, sparrows, starlings, etc, and f I need more than 20 fpe to make a humane kill, I'll grab my .22LR.
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With an FDPCP, the truth is you don't HAVE to tinker, and you don't NEED to be very mechanically inclined. You just need to be able to pay attention to detail and follow a set of instructions to do the "fiddling" you will likely do when you get it. And that could be limited to removing the barrel for cleaning and checking the power adjustment. But don't forget. You've got that power tuning capability out of the box in an FDPCP. A disco requires more parts and tinkering to get that functionality.
Your only choice with a .22 FDPCP is the gen2. Mike sends them out either for shot count, or for power. I believe the power tune is irreversible (drilling the transfer port). Ok, irreversible for us mortals. There is a selection of GTA members who have worked miracles with jbweld.
The .177 will be available in gen1 again later his year (check the May not be dead thread).
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Gentlemen...
Keep in mind that the First Gen XS-60C is known as the "FD-PCP". The gun was discontinued by the maker for issues including a leak. Mike at Flying Dragon gained access to the remaining inventory and painstakenly repaired the leaks and set them up for bulk fill. This included a bulk fill cap with check valve foster fitting, a bigger, stronger tube and valve work to handle higher pressure HPA. He then offered the gun as a tinkerer's delight. Alot of the guns came out of the box needing no further tweeking and some, not so much. What a jewell tho...
On to the GEN II....
This guy was the replacement for the GEN I. The maker fixed the leak. It has a working saftey. You can get it in it's C02 or bulk fill form. If you order it in bulk fill you have the option of low shot count/high power or high shot count/low power. This is set by Mike and is non reversible. Any gun can be "tinkered" with. The GEN I was meant to be tinkered with.. The GEN II was not. And it's a great entry level gun to PCP.
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Avator, doesn't the Gen II still have the adjustment screw at the back of the action?
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I'm not sure. I think the high/low settings are set by opening the valve orafices or leaving it stock. Once opened, it would have to be replaced to reverse. I personally don't have a GEN II. I have 3 of the FD-PCP. I got my understanding of the GEN II thru talking with Mike. I'm sure when he sees this thread, he will jump right in.
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from his site
"Also note, our normal warranty does not extend to this rifle. We will attempt to solve any issues that may arise as a result of defective manufacture, but as this rifle is modified and intended for additional user modification, we cannot extend our normal warranty service."
bold added by me
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the rifle can be shot and used as it comes, owner may adjust power levels using the adjuster if wanted. The .177 does 890 with 8.6 gr.( had .22 on my mind when I first posted. sorry guys)with adjuster mid way in adjustment out of the box so adding velocity to it isn't needed unless you got to have it...the .22 does gain with the high power settings...if the owner wants to mess with it fine by me, just make sure you know what you are doing...we do supply parts for repairs or we will repair it if needed...no refunds on purchase how ever, I have gotten enough rifles back with imaginary problems (air gun of the month club guys) that I had to do this. sorry
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My FD-PCP in 22 really didn't need much adjustment at all to get to the 20 at 20 FPE. I did take the trigger apart, and polish all contact points, and burnish them with molly lube for a smooth, crisp trigger. FOr me, this rifle was a great deal, and I have had a ton of fun "tinkering" with it, even though it didn't really need anything right out of the box. Basically, and this would apply to a Disco as well, I started out by filling to the max recommended fill, then shot a string over my Chrony until I found the sweet spot. (top of the power curve) Then counted how many shots after that. On the next fill, I filled to just above the sweet spot, noted my velocity, and adjusted my fill pressure until I got the gun to shoot a full 20 shots at an average of 20 FPE. Only really took me maybe an hour or so, and I didn't even need to touch the adjuster to get there. So even if your not mechanically inclined, this is still a good choice, especially for the price, and Mike stands behind the guns above and beyond what any other vender that clearly states no warranty. I actually ordered a 177 as well, and Mike sent me a full set of seals while helping me track down a leak. The process for finding the sweet spot, and getting the nice shot string, and curve you want applies to the Disco as well, and as others mentioned, if you do want a bit more adjustability for your disco, places like Disco's are us, and other Crosman parts makers can provide you with a simple velocity / power adjuster. These require nothing more than a screw driver to install, and some patience to tune the rifle to your preferred shot string/power combo.
Just my thoughts,
Casey
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Thanks much Mike for the reply. good to hear from the seller's "mouth" what the word is.
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LOL...see, he lurks in the shadows waiting to be summoned... gotta love that guy.
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I can't be the only one surprised at 25ftlbs for the .177, can I?
Mikeiniowa, what pellet is that? I want to buy some.
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And as mentioned and proven many times before.... the BStaley 3 #113 buna o-rings dropped in the tube in front of the hammer does amazing things to flatten out the bell curve. Betty Lou's .177 gets a real nice 35 shots a fill. My .22 easily gets 20 shots over 20fpe within a 4% curve. And the Black Mamba is an absolute 12 shot hammer with 30gr JSBs and a 5/16 delrin shim on the hammer spring. And all I've done to any of them is smooth the trigger to our liking, o-rings and power tune.... oh, we did pretty the furniture up a bit.
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I can't be the only one surprised at 25ftlbs for the .177, can I?
Mikeiniowa, what pellet is that? I want to buy some.
I think you posted this before Mike corrected his post.... BUT I'm pretty sure the .177 caliber FDPCP can push JSB 13.43gr pellets at very close to 25 FPE.
My .22 is spitting out 18.13gr JSB pellets at a little over 850 FPS. I would think that the same powerplant can move the lighter 13.34gr .177 pellet at close to 900fps (24 FPE).
I have the pellets... I have both calibers... I just need the time to do the actual test.
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I should probably run the Black Mamba over the chrony too. I almost named him "Howitzer" but that name already went to the Beeman x2 in .22 with GAMO TS22. For some reason it loves those things.
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Thanks for all the info, guys!
Yeah, I guess I should have specified the new Gen II model with safety in my initial post was what I was looking at, in .22-cal. If I could get 20 shots at 20 FPE out of the box, that would knock it out of the ballpark.
And as for "tinkering" on the Gen II model, all I'd have to do is drop a few o-rings in, turn the power adjuster screw a little one way or another while shooting a few strings over my Chrony, and I'd be set, right?
I think I can handle that.
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yep, that's about all you need... there are other things to tinker with but that will get you going real nice. if you need any help just holler, we're all right here and happy to help.
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also use fill pressure to adjust string...some like a lower or slightly higher fill pressure, every one is a bit different...
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Mike, can you tell us the port sizes on the 'power tuned' GEN II?
I would like to tune this gun for absolute max power and use a (reverse mount) bottle to extend shot count a little -possibly only enough for a PRod magazine (or even two, but only if power doesn't suffer.)
It's also a little daunting to a however well studied (and metal fabrication experienced) novice
to embark on 'tinkering' without a backup valve and a spare fill plug&cap.
And to even be able to assess shot count and deviation (never mind to safely know that the gun is not just "probably" empty before opening it up,) the check valve needs to be moved for a downstream gauge, which I personally already have started to consider absolutely essential.
Since FDPCP valves are understandably at a premium, can we at least convert QB valves by imitating what you did to our XS60C PDP valves (or try our mods on it?)
How well would, say, a commercially modded QB/AR valve (XP etc) FIT?
Can the end plug on a "spare parts" XS/QB plug/cap (from UknowWhere) seal at HPA pressure?
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the complete QB valve will fit, max. port size is 5mm any more and a .22 pellet falls in, for .177 use 4mm. Only use a brass type cap, plastic will work but is kind of iffy...have one being tested but don't trust the plastic to hold the nipple
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Thank you Mike - as always!
Rod