GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: airgunwarriors on July 19, 2014, 12:44:22 AM
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WHAT IS THE BEST, ALL-AROUND .25 CALIBER AIR-GUN MONEY CAN BUY FOR UNDER $600.00 IN YOUR OPINION?
WHY?
PLEASE NOTE: Please chime-in whether you own the .25 Air-Gun you feel is the best for under $600.00 or not. Also, it does not matter what type it is.
Based on a lot of research over the past few weeks, I have concluded that the Hatsan 125 Sniper .25 Vortex or NP is the best over-all .25 money can buy for under $600.00.
Although I do not own one, my reason for choosing the Hatsan 125 Sniper .25 Vortex...according to a ton of reviews; is the outstanding power, quality, accuracy and "affordability" and does not require the additional cost and/or use of a fill-station.
I really, really look forward to reading the the opinions of many others! :D
Respectfully,
agw.
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After you shoot the Big Nasty you may change your mind....
It is a Hatsan BT65, spitting JSB Kings (25.4gr) at 1000 fps....
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On a budget, my vote is a tuned XS-28 from Mike Melick.
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On a budget, my vote is a tuned XS-28 from Mike Melick.
I did not know that MM offered the XS-28 in .25?
Thanks,
Al.
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After you shoot the Big Nasty you may change your mind....
It is a Hatsan BT65, spitting JSB Kings (25.4gr) at 1000 fps....
Al,
My dream gun as of late is the BT65 .25 Air-Rifle!
As it is out of my price range, my other dream Air-Rifle is the AT44 in either wood stock or the Tactical model...in .25 of course! I would just have it tuned in hopes that it too could reach the mid to upper 900-fps range shooting 25-grain ammo!
you've no idea how much I look forward to the first weekend of August! ;D
Respectfully,
Al.
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After you shoot the Big Nasty you may change your mind....
It is a Hatsan BT65, spitting JSB Kings (25.4gr) at 1000 fps....
Al,
My dream gun as of late is the BT65 .25 Air-Rifle!
As it is out of my price range, my other dream Air-Rifle is the AT44 in either wood stock or the Tactical model...in .25 of course! I would just have it tuned in hopes that it too could reach the mid to upper 900-fps range shooting 25-grain ammo!
you've no idea how much I look forward to the first weekend of August! ;D
Respectfully,
Al.
Check this out BT65 Elite: http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114)
Or this, AT44 Long: http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=309 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=309)
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On a budget, my vote is a tuned XS-28 from Mike Melick.
I did not know that MM offered the XS-28 in .25?
Thanks,
Al.
Here 'tis. http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/XISICO_XS28M.html (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/XISICO_XS28M.html)
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On a budget, my vote is a tuned XS-28 from Mike Melick.
I did not know that MM offered the XS-28 in .25?
Thanks,
Al.
Here 'tis. http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/XISICO_XS28M.html (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/XISICO_XS28M.html)
Thanks George! :D
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After you shoot the Big Nasty you may change your mind....
It is a Hatsan BT65, spitting JSB Kings (25.4gr) at 1000 fps....
Al,
My dream gun as of late is the BT65 .25 Air-Rifle!
As it is out of my price range, my other dream Air-Rifle is the AT44 in either wood stock or the Tactical model...in .25 of course! I would just have it tuned in hopes that it too could reach the mid to upper 900-fps range shooting 25-grain ammo!
you've no idea how much I look forward to the first weekend of August! ;D
Respectfully,
Al.
Check this out BT65 Elite: http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114)
Or this, AT44 Long: http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=309 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=309)
Wow, those are some really great deals!
I wonder if the barrels on these are choked? If the long barrel is choked and I do not want it to be choked, then I could have the choked section cut-off, right?
If the barrel is choked and to short to cut-off, then I would be in trouble.
I never thought I would like a thumb-hole stock, but that BT65 looks so mean!
Thnaks,
Al.
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If I had the skill I would copy Bobs work...
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=37401.20 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=37401.20)
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AGW, I took an off the shelf Umarex Octane and swapped the barrel to .25 cal, and have been quite pleased with what I have for the money spent. For less than $200.00 I have a 26 plus fpe .25 cal that shoots FTT 19.91 at 775 fps and can easily nail hen eggs at 50 yds.
On the other hand I also have a BT65 Elite...Yes, you have to have some support equipment (I currently just fill with a pump) but that big hog killer will make you smile. It is quite loud without an LDC, but that is easily remedied.
I love both guns, they are both very capable, very accurate, opposite ends of the spectrum... ;) :D ;D
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I don't own one (only held and dry fired) but I'd say a Marauder...
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I would take a look at the Hatsan AT44 10- long. Great shooters for the money. I own a Hale Storm which is a copy of the AT44 . Extra air cylinders can also be had which makes it very nice to take along while hunting. Simple and easy to change in the field. Just twist it off and add another!!
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Al (AGW) you just wait till you shoot Al(OTC)'s BT-65...it's smallest cannon you'll ever shoot from your shoulder
He bought it from me when i got sick and needed money for meds faster than I could argue with insurance companies....in the line of "If wishes were horses" I wish had had two!
there aren't a lot of airguns that you shoot into a dirt bank 100 yards away and make dust cloud big enough to get a PB shooters attention... I had that thing out at Twin Pines shooting pieces of a broken shotgun pigeon laying on the bank at 100... after 3-4 shots the entire line of 8-10 hot rods with ARs and Glocks all stopped shooting to watch...
(that'll teach em to do the "secret he's been neutered laugh" at a guy that thinks shooting involves lugging a 50# air tank around..
Hey Al (OTC)....If you have an oilless compressor (mine got sold), I still have the Shoebox, the 60 minute scba CF tank and all the connecting implements... we could put A and B together and top that up too (has about 1K in it now)
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I like my Hatsan AT-44 S-10 Long in .25 cal.... The only drawback is the lack of heavy, accurate ammo to take advantage of the power, I have to DETUNE it into the high 900s with 25 gr. Kings.... I'm hoping JSB's soon-to-be-released 34ish gr. version proves accurate, that will give me a 70 FPE hammer....
Bob
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I have filled out the order form twice and slapped my hand twice to not buy this. I have the Galation version now and don't need it.
This shoots 100 yard groups, has a great thumb hole stock with a molded pistol grip. The butt plate adjusts north and south and slides east and west. The comb goes north and south. It has to 2 clips the fit in front of trigger. There are 3 Weaver mounts in the forestock for bipod and a light and a transister radio. You can screw a air splitter or lcd on the barrel.
It gets enough shots out of a fill to use all 3 of the 9 round clips. You can pick up a spare air cylinder and through in your day sack and get about 60 shots.
They bark and they bite. I think you better buy it so I can't. It is refurb but is $200 less then new.$485 plus 99 cents shipping.
Forgot you get a plastic rifle case and your fill prob, sling, 3 nine shot rotary clips, etc.
It sounded so good when I wrote it all out, I bought The last one, oops.
http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114)
Be Well,
Gator
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After you shoot the Big Nasty you may change your mind....
It is a Hatsan BT65, spitting JSB Kings (25.4gr) at 1000 fps....
Al,
My dream gun as of late is the BT65 .25 Air-Rifle!
As it is out of my price range, my other dream Air-Rifle is the AT44 in either wood stock or the Tactical model...in .25 of course! I would just have it tuned in hopes that it too could reach the mid to upper 900-fps range shooting 25-grain ammo!
you've no idea how much I look forward to the first weekend of August! ;D
Respectfully,
Al.
Check this out BT65 Elite: http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114)
Or this, AT44 Long: http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=309 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=309)
Wow, those are some really great deals!
I wonder if the barrels on these are choked? If the long barrel is choked and I do not want it to be choked, then I could have the choked section cut-off, right?
If the barrel is choked and to short to cut-off, then I would be in trouble.
I never thought I would like a thumb-hole stock, but that BT65 looks so mean!
Thnaks,
Al.
Those are nice prices, to start with. But, are you willing to use a hand pump every 20 or so shots? (I'm hip shooting here, it may be more, but willing to bet not much more) You may find that you'll want a shoebox and tank. This has been the deal breaker for me over and over. That blasted support equipment. With my income at the lowest level that I have had in over 25 years, PCP is a pipe dream. :(
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M-Rod!!
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FYI,
I have 2 dive tanks since I am a diver. But I only use the top third of the air out of them. So got to be friends with the dive shop owner and he charges me 2 bucks a tank and I fill them every 3 weeks.
Be careful if you buy a used tank. If it needs to be pressure tested it will cost aboutv $35 plus a first fill $6.00.
If you tell the dive shop you are shooting the air not breathing it, they may fill dated tanks. Depends on the guy and if you can get friendly with him.
Be Well,
Gator
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I like my Hatsan AT-44 S-10 Long in .25 cal.... The only drawback is the lack of heavy, accurate ammo to take advantage of the power, I have to DETUNE it into the high 900s with 25 gr. Kings.... I'm hoping JSB's soon-to-be-released 34ish gr. version proves accurate, that will give me a 70 FPE hammer....
Bob
Bob,
I'm guessing that you tuned your AT44 in order for it to exceed 900-fps using the JSB 25-grain ammo?
I too have heard that JSB is supposed to introduce a heavier (30+ grain) .25 ammo, that will be awesome for many I'm sure! ;D
Thanks for the input,
Al.
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FYI,
I have 2 dive tanks since I am a diver. But I only use the top third of the air out of them. So got to be friends with the dive shop owner and he charges me 2 bucks a tank and I fill them every 3 weeks.
Be careful if you buy a used tank. If it needs to be pressure tested it will cost aboutv $35 plus a first fill $6.00.
If you tell the dive shop you are shooting the air not breathing it, they may fill dated tanks. Depends on the guy and if you can get friendly with him.
Be Well,
Gator
Thanks for the heads up! :D
Al.
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After you shoot the Big Nasty you may change your mind....
It is a Hatsan BT65, spitting JSB Kings (25.4gr) at 1000 fps....
Al,
My dream gun as of late is the BT65 .25 Air-Rifle!
As it is out of my price range, my other dream Air-Rifle is the AT44 in either wood stock or the Tactical model...in .25 of course! I would just have it tuned in hopes that it too could reach the mid to upper 900-fps range shooting 25-grain ammo!
you've no idea how much I look forward to the first weekend of August! ;D
Respectfully,
Al.
Check this out BT65 Elite: http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114)
Or this, AT44 Long: http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=309 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=309)
Wow, those are some really great deals!
I wonder if the barrels on these are choked? If the long barrel is choked and I do not want it to be choked, then I could have the choked section cut-off, right?
If the barrel is choked and to short to cut-off, then I would be in trouble.
I never thought I would like a thumb-hole stock, but that BT65 looks so mean!
Thnaks,
Al.
Those are nice prices, to start with. But, are you willing to use a hand pump every 20 or so shots? (I'm hip shooting here, it may be more, but willing to bet not much more) You may find that you'll want a shoebox and tank. This has been the deal breaker for me over and over. That blasted support equipment. With my income at the lowest level that I have had in over 25 years, PCP is a pipe dream. :(
George,
I'm glad that you mentioned the having to refill subject.
It is a subject that puts the Hatsan .25 models at the top of my list, because of the fact you can easily switch out cylinders...carry extra ones with you.
Yes, a shoe-box setup would be ideal, no doubt about it!
I think that after shooting the 11 or however many shots you get (can't remember) with the .25 models, you are only re-filling a little over 1000-psi, which isn't bad for me, but it was having to re-fill 2000-3000 each time, I wouldn't do it!
Thanks again for your input George! :D
Al.
p.s. stay positive, you never know what might happen in the future and you may have a fill-station someday!
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Yes, it's tuned, but stock it shot 25 shots at over 850 fps with Kings (41 FPE), which is more than you will get with an MRod.... Just a couple of turns on the hammer spring adjuster increased that to 27 shots at 43 FPE.... a couple more gave 18 shots (2 clips) at 47 FPE.... Getting more than that requires a bit of port/valve work, but nothing dramatic to get into the mid 900s.... Over that is a bit more work.... The gun shoots dime-sized groups at 50 yards with the Kings....
Bob
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Yes, it's tuned, but stock it shot 25 shots at over 850 fps with Kings (41 FPE), which is more than you will get with an MRod.... Just a couple of turns on the hammer spring adjuster increased that to 27 shots at 43 FPE.... a couple more gave 18 shots (2 clips) at 47 FPE.... Getting more than that requires a bit of port/valve work, but nothing dramatic to get into the mid 900s.... Over that is a bit more work.... The gun shoots dime-sized groups at 50 yards with the Kings....
Bob
So now your telling me that the AT44 has a power adjuster feature?
That's awesome!
Wonder how a 32-grain would do?
Thanks again Bob,
Al.
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I say Sumatra, .....under 600 bucks after Pyramyd 10% off
that is the most versatile .25 and the most powerful, not pellet picky and shoots cats bullets well too.
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I think, and agree, that relying on a springer to be of count, with the .25 may be a torturing and underpreforming compromise for accuracy with power you want.
But you aren't the first to ask, or even contract, some builds. A guy tried it with Diana, and it was...what it was, going in. But he tried. :D
PCP is king for this caliber. Blow the $600.00 budget, out the window, if you want quality. Sumatra has been at it for a while. And Nomadic Pirate has hunted them very well, for a long time. The accessories for any PCP, have to be figured into your budget. Why not a good .22 springer, if that's your thinking and budget? Diana 48 or 460 are in your budget?
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Topic should be renamed ".25 Springer under $600" because any pcp .25 under $600 would blow any .25 springer out of the water.
And lol. Saying the Sumatra as the most versatile .25 is highly subjective. I wonder how come you don't have one then Manny?
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Laz... Manny has posts on his Sumatra hunts. This may be too far for you to Troll back to.
Laz... He,( like me, and like many),occasionally sell off some good stuff. Not uncommon, and we have many happy new owners. Be a Nice Guy Laz ;)
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Personally, a springer that has enough FPE available to make the .25 a better choice than the .22 cal would be in the "kick like a mule" department that only a handful of guys will ever take the time to learn how to shoot.... I found that a .22 cal B-28 was more gun than I found pleasant (or accurate) to shoot.... Once you start tickling the 30 FPE range, PCPs are the only game in town, IMO, and when you start looking at 50 FPE, to make a .25 cal really worth the trouble, you are clearly out of springer territory....
The Hatsan has an preload adjustment inside the hammer, but it's a simple stock mod (drill a small hole and file a groove) to make it externally adjustable, and like any PCP, having the ability to adjust the preload is, IMO, a necessity for tuning....
Bob
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Personally, a springer that has enough FPE available to make the .25 a better choice than the .22 cal would be in the "kick like a mule" department that only a handful of guys will ever take the time to learn how to shoot.... I found that a .22 cal B-28 was more gun than I found pleasant (or accurate) to shoot.... Once you start tickling the 30 FPE range, PCPs are the only game in town, IMO, and when you start looking at 50 FPE, to make a .25 cal really worth the trouble, you are clearly out of springer territory....
The Hatsan has an preload adjustment inside the hammer, but it's a simple stock mod (drill a small hole and file a groove) to make it externally adjustable, and like any PCP, having the ability to adjust the preload is, IMO, a necessity for tuning....
Bob
Bob,
I could not agree with you more!
Having the external power adjuster would be a given for me, so glad to know it can be done with the Hatsan AT44 .25!
Thanks again,
Al.
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Topic should be renamed ".25 Springer under $600" because any pcp .25 under $600 would blow any .25 springer out of the water.
And lol. Saying the Sumatra as the most versatile .25 is highly subjective. I wonder how come you don't have one then Manny?
Laz my man,
I said many a times that if Sumatras came in .357 I would sell all my Storms and have one Sumatra carbine and one 500cc in .22 .25 and .357 :)
Why is it the most versatile .25 ?
well, it's a fast cycling 6 shooter lever action that can be powered way, way down and shoot the lightest .25 pellets in the 30 FPE range, than with the flick of a finger can be powered way up and shoot cast bullets at over 100 FPE, the barrels aren't pellet picky so you can shoot just about everything else in between at different power levels :)
The barrels are threaded so you can go from LDC to bare barrel in a couple of seconds,...I say she's a pretty versatile rifle indeed :) :)
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Topic should be renamed ".25 Springer under $600" because any pcp .25 under $600 would blow any .25 springer out of the water.
And lol. Saying the Sumatra as the most versatile .25 is highly subjective. I wonder how come you don't have one then Manny?
Laz my man,
I said many a times that if Sumatras came in .357 I would sell all my Storms and have one Sumatra carbine and one 500cc in .22 .25 and .357 :)
Why is it the most versatile .25 ?
well, it's a fast cycling 6 shooter lever action that can be powered way, way down and shoot the lightest .25 pellets in the 30 FPE range, than with the flick of a finger can be powered way up and shoot cast bullets at over 100 FPE, the barrels aren't pellet picky so you can shoot just about everything else in between at different power levels :)
The barrels are threaded so you can go from LDC to bare barrel in a couple of seconds,...I say she's a pretty versatile rifle indeed :) :)
So, the Sumatra can shoot .25 thru cast ammo that is .357 for example? If yes that's pretty awesome! Not pellet picky either? Again, very awesome!
If my above assumptions are correct, the Sumatra would be a top choice, but I really like the removeable cylinder feature and repeater feature offered by the Hatsan .25 air-rifles. Is the Sumatra a repeater?
When I get home later tonight, I will study up on the Sumatra.
Thanks,
agw.
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The sumatra .25 shoot pellets and cast bullets in .25 not .357.
yes it's a repeter 6 shots lever action
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Re-read the post agw... It's a reapeater, and you are new. Re-read,an look into them.
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Hello Bob,
¤¤¤¤¤¤《《《The Hatsan has an preload adjustment inside the hammer, but it's a simple stock mod (drill a small hole and file a groove) to make it externally adjustable, and like any PCP, having the ability to adjust the preload is, IMO, a necessity for tuning....》》》》》¤¤¤¤¤¤
Bob
If you have explained that drill and file method, would you mind sharing. Possibly link me to the steps. Thank you sir,
Be Well,
Gator
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The sumatra .25 shoot pellets and cast bullets in .25 not .357.
yes it's a repeter 6 shots lever action
.25 Cast bullets like the ones Bob/rsterne designed...50-grain?
Thanks,
Al.
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Correct, and because the magazine is long can possibly shoot up to 60-70gr like the Surefires that Jerry sells at the Talon forun
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I did some twist calculations a while back that indicated the 70 gr. (7 ring) would need a faster twist than a 16".... the 6 ring should be OK in a 16"....
Bob
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Yeah reports on the 60gr bullets where real good in the past
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I did some twist calculations a while back that indicated the 70 gr. (7 ring) would need a faster twist than a 16".... the 6 ring should be OK in a 16"....
Bob
As the BT65 and a tuned AT44 .25 seem to be quite powerful as well (compared to the Sumatra), what makes them so different that they too could not shoot the heavier ammo, such as the ammo being mentioned that the Sumatra can shoot, like the bullet that Bob designed and other heavier .25 ammo/50+ grain and up?
Thanks,
agw.
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Hello Bob,
¤¤¤¤¤¤《《《The Hatsan has an preload adjustment inside the hammer, but it's a simple stock mod (drill a small hole and file a groove) to make it externally adjustable, and like any PCP, having the ability to adjust the preload is, IMO, a necessity for tuning....》》》》》¤¤¤¤¤¤
Bob
If you have explained that drill and file method, would you mind sharing. Possibly link me to the steps. Thank you sir,
Be Well,
Gator
It is in this thread here:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=37401.20 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=37401.20)
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The ability to handle heavy ammo depends on the FPE level the gun can develop.... There isn't a lot of point using 50 gr. bullets in a gun that won't shoot at least 90 FPE (IMO) as that is 900 fps with that weight.... I assume Manny is just saying the Sumatra can do that, I don't know I've never had one....
Bob
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Mods to allow hammer preload adjustment are covered here.... http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=33903.20 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=33903.20)
Bob
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The ability to handle heavy ammo depends on the FPE level the gun can develop.... There isn't a lot of point using 50 gr. bullets in a gun that won't shoot at least 90 FPE (IMO) as that is 900 fps with that weight.... I assume Manny is just saying the Sumatra can do that, I don't know I've never had one....
Bob
Thanks Bob,
nervoustrigger and I were talking about what makes going bigger in caliber worth it, in reference to hunting the other night. Like if a .25 cannot increase the size of game you hunt or distance, why get one? Seems you'd be better off going up to a .357/9mm instead?
Watched a video just now of a guy killing 2 hogs in S.C. with a .22 Sumatra using 32-grain ammo and the hogs dropped like rocks! My guess is that a a .22, 32-grain is no different than a .25, 32-grain?
Here's a link to that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5BNNfOJTlk&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5BNNfOJTlk&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
Well, if a .22 can do that, why go .25? My guess is that the Sumatra is not the only .22 PCP that is capable of doing what is seen in the video link above or is capable of slinging 32-grain ammo as effectively as the Sumatra?
I truly want to step up to .25 caliber, but become hesitant when I see a .22 doing the same job a .25 can do.
Really frustrating to say the least!
I want an air-rifle with more balls...with ammo that looks and feels larger than what I currently have!
???
Al.
EDIT/ADD-ON: Even my FD-PCP can produce 43-fpe using heavy Eun-Jin ammo, although it is only like 6 or 7 shots, still not bad imho.
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It also depends on why your buying it if its mostly to punch paper i would go with somthing with a high shot count since your going to be hand pumping cause you dont want to pump the rifle up every 20 or so shots (trust me ive been there)
If its for hunting i would recomend the sumatra 2500 500cc i just bought one from pyramid air and shes a beast if your just going to mosly punch paper i would recomend a m rod although you can certinly hunt with that too at the end of the day it really comes down to what will fit your needs and make you happy
Happy and safe shooting!!!!
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It also depends on why your buying it if its mostly to punch paper i would go with somthing with a high shot count since your going to be hand pumping cause you dont want to pump the rifle up every 20 or so shots (trust me ive been there)
If its for hunting i would recomend the sumatra 2500 500cc i just bought one from pyramid air and shes a beast if your just going to mosly punch paper i would recomend a m rod although you can certinly hunt with that too at the end of the day it really comes down to what will fit your needs and make you happy
Happy and safe shooting!!!!
My interests are a combination of both hunting and punching paper/tin cans. Providing the game I hunt the most humane kill possible is of great importance to me.
At this point, there's no doubt in my mind that if I were to get anything other than the Sumatra, it would be either the .25 Hatsan BT65 or AT44 (no tactical).
Fortunately I will have the opportunity to shoot a .25 BT65 the first weekend of August! ;D
Thanks for the in-put,
Al.
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A .25 cal will drive a given weight of pellet/bullet more easily to a given velocity.... and punch a bigger hole I the target/game when it connects.... The limiting factor for power, assuming 950 fps, is 2 FPE per grains of projectile weight.... The bigger the caliber, the more potential FPE....
Bob
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A .25 cal will drive a given weight of pellet/bullet more easily to a given velocity.... and punch a bigger hole I the target/game when it connects.... The limiting factor for power, assuming 950 fps, is 2 FPE per grains of projectile weight.... The bigger the caliber, the more potential FPE....
Bob
Bob,
That makes sense and puts things into better perspective, thanks! ;D
Al.
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Al,
Have you added the external adjustable power feature to the BEAST?
As mentioned before, regardless of which .25 Hatsan I may go with, be it the AT44 or BT65; I for sure want to have that feature!
Thanks,
Al.
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After you shoot the Big Nasty you may change your mind....
It is a Hatsan BT65, spitting JSB Kings (25.4gr) at 1000 fps....
Al,
My dream gun as of late is the BT65 .25 Air-Rifle!
As it is out of my price range, my other dream Air-Rifle is the AT44 in either wood stock or the Tactical model...in .25 of course! I would just have it tuned in hopes that it too could reach the mid to upper 900-fps range shooting 25-grain ammo!
you've no idea how much I look forward to the first weekend of August! ;D
Respectfully,
Al.
I bought an at44 s10 long from Amazon for 355 and free shipping and bought the Tactical stock from Hatsan USA for 150 shipped . Drops right in. Now I have an at44 long tactical for cheaper than you could even get the regular at44 tactical from Pyramyd. It is a hammer for sure in .25.
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Personally, I've been tossing around the idea of a fully tuned XS-28 in .22 or .25. All my shots will be under 40 yards, so I'm thinking that the .25 will be sweet for a groundhog to raccoon sized prey. I'm liking the idea of a larger wound channel as long as the trajectory isn't too loopy at 40 yards.
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I like my Hatsan AT-44 S-10 Long in .25 cal.... The only drawback is the lack of heavy, accurate ammo to take advantage of the power, I have to DETUNE it into the high 900s with 25 gr. Kings.... I'm hoping JSB's soon-to-be-released 34ish gr. version proves accurate, that will give me a 70 FPE hammer....
Bob
[/quo
The long at44 will hit over 900fps without a tune.
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After you shoot the Big Nasty you may change your mind....
It is a Hatsan BT65, spitting JSB Kings (25.4gr) at 1000 fps....
Al,
My dream gun as of late is the BT65 .25 Air-Rifle!
As it is out of my price range, my other dream Air-Rifle is the AT44 in either wood stock or the Tactical model...in .25 of course! I would just have it tuned in hopes that it too could reach the mid to upper 900-fps range shooting 25-grain ammo!
you've no idea how much I look forward to the first weekend of August! ;D
Respectfully,
Al.
I bought an at44 s10 long from Amazon for 355 and free shipping and bought the Tactical stock from Hatsan USA for 150 shipped . Drops right in. Now I have an at44 long tactical for cheaper than you could even get the regular at44 tactical from Pyramyd. It is a hammer for sure in .25.
Wow, that's pretty cool!
Thanks for sharing that! Although I'm not a big fan of the tactical look, I do like the dual clip storage under the stock on the AT44 tactical. The BT65 has that same feature too.:-)
Thanks again,
age.
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jnagy, that depends on pellet weight, of course.... my numbers were with 25 gr.... The .25 cal AT44 long will easily exceed 900 stock with lighter pellets....
Bob
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jnagy, that depends on pellet weight, of course.... my numbers were with 25 gr.... The .25 cal AT44 long will easily exceed 900 stock with lighter pellets....
Bob
Bob,
There's no doubt in my mind that I will want to get the Nomad Kit in in .25 caliber. The standard weight is 32-grains, but it can be customized to create heavier or lighter ammo.
What weight would you get or recommend for the BT65 or a tuned AT44, based on your knowledge of the type of power they can produce and the shape of the Nomad?
I was originally thinking I'd get 30-grain, which to me would be like something in the middle weight range of most of the .25 ammo I've looked at, but the more I learn the more I feel that something heavier than 30-grain would be better?
Thanks,
Al.
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Topic should be renamed ".25 Springer under $600" because any pcp .25 under $600 would blow any .25 springer out of the water.
And lol. Saying the Sumatra as the most versatile .25 is highly subjective. I wonder how come you don't have one then Manny?
Laz my man,
I said many a times that if Sumatras came in .357 I would sell all my Storms and have one Sumatra carbine and one 500cc in .22 .25 and .357 :)
Why is it the most versatile .25 ?
well, it's a fast cycling 6 shooter lever action that can be powered way, way down and shoot the lightest .25 pellets in the 30 FPE range, than with the flick of a finger can be powered way up and shoot cast bullets at over 100 FPE, the barrels aren't pellet picky so you can shoot just about everything else in between at different power levels :)
The barrels are threaded so you can go from LDC to bare barrel in a couple of seconds,...I say she's a pretty versatile rifle indeed :) :)
Those are all fine points Manny. If one absolutely must have a repeater and power at once, Sumatra may be the ticket.
If one wants power and accuracy at once but can live with and use effectively a single shot I'd definitely look at the big bird. Very hard to beat a 24" LW barrel with a 24" Korean barrel as far as accuracy goes.
As far as versatility, my friend, let's not forget the endless mods, feats, and capabilities of the Condor platform (not TalonP ;)) :D :D
Airgunwarriors, if you aren't stuck on repeaters, the Condor .25 would make the ultimate platform for shooting heavy ammo accurately at longer ranges at an economical price. If it is FPE you are after, it can be modded more powerful than all the Hatsans and Sumatra. Not to mention the sweet LW barrel will give you an easier time finding/making the right cast pellet for than non LW.
Heck, the Condor can give you the option of going .257 and up seeing as how good you are at casting pellets already. Then you are talking 200+ FPE accurately (What I mean is casting bullets) ;D ;D
The Condor platform is a slippery road. I'm already determined and sold on BBT's. Got to shot his 50gr's at a mild 895 fps awhile ago and both 5 shot groups sub .75" at 50 yards. Uncleaned, not broken in barrel. 8) Can't wait to get ahold of more to really stretch the legs.
-
I really like the AT44-10 QE. It is the short version, but it does everything I need it to do out to 50 yards. Probably the best out of box gun I have had, it's easy to handle, super quiet, extremely accurate. PA has them for $479 minus 10%, $440.
Have fun
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the Condor has never been known for being that accurate of a gun, ....regardless of the big name barrel.
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The ability to handle heavy ammo depends on the FPE level the gun can develop.... There isn't a lot of point using 50 gr. bullets in a gun that won't shoot at least 90 FPE (IMO) as that is 900 fps with that weight.... I assume Manny is just saying the Sumatra can do that, I don't know I've never had one....
Bob
Thanks Bob,
nervoustrigger and I were talking about what makes going bigger in caliber worth it, in reference to hunting the other night. Like if a .25 cannot increase the size of game you hunt or distance, why get one? Seems you'd be better off going up to a .357/9mm instead?
Watched a video just now of a guy killing 2 hogs in S.C. with a .22 Sumatra using 32-grain ammo and the hogs dropped like rocks! My guess is that a a .22, 32-grain is no different than a .25, 32-grain?
Here's a link to that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5BNNfOJTlk&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5BNNfOJTlk&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
Well, if a .22 can do that, why go .25? My guess is that the SumThe ability to handle heavy ammo depends on the FPE level the gun can develop.... There isn't a lot of point using 50 gr. bullets in a gun that won't shoot at least 90 FPE (IMO) as that is 900 fps with that weight.... I assume Manny is just saying the Sumatra can do that, I don't know I've never had one....
Bob
Thanks Bob,
nervoustrigger and I were talking about what makes going bigger in caliber worth it, in reference to hunting the other night. Like if a .25 cannot increase the size of game you hunt or distance, why get one? Seems you'd be better off going up to a .357/9mm instead?
Watched a video just now of a guy killing 2 hogs in S.C. with a .22 Sumatra using 32-grain ammo and the hogs dropped like rocks! My guess is that a a .22, 32-grain is no different than a .25, 32-grain?
Here's a link to that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5BNNfOJTlk&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5BNNfOJTlk&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
Well, if a .22 can do that, why go .25? My guess is that the Sumatra is not the only .22 PCP that is capable of doing what is seen in the video link above or is capable of slinging 32-grain ammo as effectively as the Sumatra?
The ability to handle heavy ammo depends on the FPE level the gun can develop.... There isn't a lot of point using 50 gr. bullets in a gun that won't shoot at least 90 FPE (IMO) as that is 900 fps with that weight.... I assume Manny is just saying the Sumatra can do that, I don't know I've never had one....
Bob
Thanks Bob,
nervoustrigger and I were talking about what makes going bigger in caliber worth it, in reference to hunting the other night. Like if a .25 cannot increase the size of game you hunt or distance, why get one? Seems you'd be better off going up to a .357/9mm instead?
Watched a video just now of a guy killing 2 hogs in S.C. with a .22 Sumatra using 32-grain ammo and the hogs dropped like rocks! My guess is that a a .22, 32-grain is no different than a .25, 32-grain?
Here's a link to that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5BNNfOJTlk&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5BNNfOJTlk&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
Well, if a .22 can do that, why go .25? My guess is that the Sumatra is not the only .22 PCP that is capable of doing what is seen in the video link above or is capable of slinging 32-grain ammo as effectively as the Sumatra?
I truly want to step up to .25 caliber, but become hesitant when I see a .22 doing the same job a .25 can do.
Really frustrating to say the least!
I want an air-rifle with more balls...with ammo that looks and feels larger than what I currently have!
???
Al.
EDIT/ADD-ON: Even my FD-PCP can produce 43-fpe using heavy Eun-Jin ammo, although it is only like 6 or 7 shots, still not bad imho.
EDIT/ADD-ON: Even my FD-PCP can produce 43-fpe using heavy Eun-Jin ammo, although it is only like 6 or 7 shots, still not bad imho.
atra is not the only .22 PCP that is capable of doing what is seen in the video link above or is capable of slinging 32-grain ammo as effec
EDIT/ADD-ON: Even my FD-PCP can produce 43-fpe using heavy Eun-Jin ammo, although it is only like 6 or 7 shots, still not bad imho.
I dropped 2 hogs in 20 minutes with my AR6 .22 shooting 32gr EunJin
I dropped a big nasty Boar with my Rainstorm .22 shooting the 32gr EunJin
I dropped back to back hogs with my Rainstorm .22 shooting the 28gr EunJin
I dropped many, many Hogs with Sumatras and Rainstorms .25 too :)
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☆★☆★☆BOB THANKS SO MUCH FOR LINKING ME TO THE HATSAN Mods Help
I trust your tune advise with blind faith. ☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
Al,
If you would have bought that refurb bt65, then I would not been so tempted.
Happily I lost all restraint tonight. Rick called me and after he answered my questions I said I'll that take that darn BT65 Elite. No will power. If Al would have bought, then I wouldn't need to eat cat food for the rest of the month, lol. The good thing is I guess, and partly why I bought another Hatsan is because I have three 255cc exchangable air tanks. 765ccs all combined and that means about 90-100 shots for the BT65 and 180 shots for the Galation
Without lugging big air. Rick tell's me the refurbs they are selling are returns from P.A.and Air Gun Depot. If they are defective or scratched up, then they are used for parts. So the refurbs are like new with all the goodies that come with a new gun. The 28% ($200) discount is in this case costs you 9 months warranty.
Why don't more factories add the the extras as the higher line Hatsan PCPs do.?
I mean exchangable air tanks is a no brainer. Marauder would probably double their sales if you could buy portable air tubes, Weaver scope mounts and the 3 Weaver forestock mounts.
If they offered open sights and my favorite, adjustable rear butt plate. Being able to slide
The butt pad down that extra 1" helps line up my lanky frame to get the glass in the best spot for me?
Good luck Al,
I hope you find that perfect rifle. Maybe you could just buy the rifle first, then start looking
for a used air supply. It is my guess, lots of guys buy a pump and decide that it sux, then go look for a tank. They end up wasting that $200+ they spent for a pump.
Or you could buy a used pump for say $75 and tuff it out for awhile then sell the pump again for $75. No harm no foul.
http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114)
Be Well,
Gator
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"My Plan" for the BT-65 was to open the loading port and extend the magazine rearward (there's easily .100" available between the mag and bolt recess) and make it repeater that will fit the Bob's Boat Tails boolit..
after following Bob's basic mod plan to up the power... to get in reasonable sight of Bob's thoughts about 90fpe for boolits.....hmmmm, seems to be some kind of a theme here doesn't it?...
I had already gotten a mini lathe and was digging around for an X-Y milling attachment for it when i got sick and had to liquidate...(which turned out to be a "if I knew then what I know now" thing)
-
How heavy you go on bullets will depend on how much power you think you can get.... which may mean how skilled are you are increasing the power.... divide the FPE by 2 to get the ideal bullet weight, IMO....
Bob
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Topic should be renamed ".25 Springer under $600" because any pcp .25 under $600 would blow any .25 springer out of the water.
And lol. Saying the Sumatra as the most versatile .25 is highly subjective. I wonder how come you don't have one then Manny?
Laz my man,
I said many a times that if Sumatras came in .357 I would sell all my Storms and have one Sumatra carbine and one 500cc in .22 .25 and .357 :)
Why is it the most versatile .25 ?
well, it's a fast cycling 6 shooter lever action that can be powered way, way down and shoot the lightest .25 pellets in the 30 FPE range, than with the flick of a finger can be powered way up and shoot cast bullets at over 100 FPE, the barrels aren't pellet picky so you can shoot just about everything else in between at different power levels :)
The barrels are threaded so you can go from LDC to bare barrel in a couple of seconds,...I say she's a pretty versatile rifle indeed :) :)
Those are all fine points Manny. If one absolutely must have a repeater and power at once, Sumatra may be the ticket.
If one wants power and accuracy at once but can live with and use effectively a single shot I'd definitely look at the big bird. Very hard to beat a 24" LW barrel with a 24" Korean barrel as far as accuracy goes.
As far as versatility, my friend, let's not forget the endless mods, feats, and capabilities of the Condor platform (not TalonP ;)) :D :D
Airgunwarriors, if you aren't stuck on repeaters, the Condor .25 would make the ultimate platform for shooting heavy ammo accurately at longer ranges at an economical price. If it is FPE you are after, it can be modded more powerful than all the Hatsans and Sumatra. Not to mention the sweet LW barrel will give you an easier time finding/making the right cast pellet for than non LW.
Heck, the Condor can give you the option of going .257 and up seeing as how good you are at casting pellets already. Then you are talking 200+ FPE accurately (What I mean is casting bullets) ;D ;D
The Condor platform is a slippery road. I'm already determined and sold on BBT's. Got to shot his 50gr's at a mild 895 fps awhile ago and both 5 shot groups sub .75" at 50 yards. Uncleaned, not broken in barrel. 8) Can't wait to get ahold of more to really stretch the legs.
I actually watched a video on youtube last-night that was a comparison between the Sumatra and the Condor.
I commented saying that I feel if Air-Force would introduce a repeater option, they would most likely sell a lot more than they already do and I would probably be a prime candidate. I'm sure I am not the first to make this comment.
I understand what you are saying about the Air-Force platform and agree with you, it is a very versatile platform for sure, with plenty of power to boot, but I am one that must have the repeater option. Really a bummer, as I really like all of the same things that I'm sure you like about the Condor.
Thank you for your in-put/advice,
agw.
-
☆★☆★☆BOB THANKS SO MUCH FOR LINKING ME TO THE HATSAN Mods Help
I trust your tune advise with blind faith. ☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
Al,
If you would have bought that refurb bt65, then I would not been so tempted.
Happily I lost all restraint tonight. Rick called me and after he answered my questions I said I'll that take that darn BT65 Elite. No will power. If Al would have bought, then I wouldn't need to eat cat food for the rest of the month, lol. The good thing is I guess, and partly why I bought another Hatsan is because I have three 255cc exchangable air tanks. 765ccs all combined and that means about 90-100 shots for the BT65 and 180 shots for the Galation
Without lugging big air. Rick tell's me the refurbs they are selling are returns from P.A.and Air Gun Depot. If they are defective or scratched up, then they are used for parts. So the refurbs are like new with all the goodies that come with a new gun. The 28% ($200) discount is in this case costs you 9 months warranty.
Why don't more factories add the the extras as the higher line Hatsan PCPs do.?
I mean exchangable air tanks is a no brainer. Marauder would probably double their sales if you could buy portable air tubes, Weaver scope mounts and the 3 Weaver forestock mounts.
If they offered open sights and my favorite, adjustable rear butt plate. Being able to slide
The butt pad down that extra 1" helps line up my lanky frame to get the glass in the best spot for me?
Good luck Al,
I hope you find that perfect rifle. Maybe you could just buy the rifle first, then start looking
for a used air supply. It is my guess, lots of guys buy a pump and decide that it sux, then go look for a tank. They end up wasting that $200+ they spent for a pump.
Or you could buy a used pump for say $75 and tuff it out for awhile then sell the pump again for $75. No harm no foul.
http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114)
Be Well,
Gator
Thanks for the advice and congratulations on your purchase!:) I already have a HPP that I use for filling my .22 QB-HPA and .22 Flying Dragon-PCP.
Being able to change out cylinders is HUGE to me and another reason why the Hatsan BT65 and AT44 are at the top of my list! Not to mention the great power and accuracy right out of the box!
After having read more post that were made in the past 8-hours, I am learning sooo much more about the potential with the BT65 and AT44! Pretty exciting stuff for sure!
I noticed one post that was made by HYspd that I am about to go read again and comment on.
Thanks and enjoy your new investment! :D
agw.
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How heavy you go on bullets will depend on how much power you think you can get.... which may mean how skilled are you are increasing the power.... divide the FPE by 2 to get the ideal bullet weight, IMO....
Bob
Thanks Bob,
I have ZERO skills at tuning air-guns, but was just reading a post made by HYspd about what he would do with a BT65 and will have the pleasure of meeting him the first weekend in August. Al (OleTomCat) is going to let me shoot The Beast (.25 BT65) that very same weekend, so my plan is to shoot the beast and then further converse with HYspd about his idea for the BT65 being able to shoot your Boolits and take it from there.
One thing I will want for sure (sorry for repeating myself), is the ability to adjust the power externally, regardless of which model I get between the AT44 and the BT65.
As far as the weight goes, I think I'm going to go 33-grains, as I plan on having a very powerful .25 caliber air-rifle and I know that my friends would have nothing less than that type of power as well, so they too would be able to use this ammo. :D
Thanks again,
Al.
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"My Plan" for the BT-65 was to open the loading port and extend the magazine rearward (there's easily .100" available between the mag and bolt recess) and make it repeater that will fit the Bob's Boat Tails boolit..
after following Bob's basic mod plan to up the power... to get in reasonable sight of Bob's thoughts about 90fpe for boolits.....hmmmm, seems to be some kind of a theme here doesn't it?...
I had already gotten a mini lathe and was digging around for an X-Y milling attachment for it when i got sick and had to liquidate...(which turned out to be a "if I knew then what I know now" thing)
Really looking forward to learning more about your idea mentioned in your post about the mods for being able to shoot Boolits, like Bob's for example.
As mentioned before, I have a small frame and not really sure the BT65 is something that I would be able to comfortably handle, but again, thanks to Al, I will find out here soon. If I find that it is not a good fit for me, that's o.k. because there's always the AT44! ;D
Respectfully,
Al.
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The AT-44 is not a light rifle.... and the long version is on the heavy side.... The BT-65 is a tank.... My 44 Long with a largish scope and bipod is 10 lbs.... If you don't like lugging a heavy gun around in the field, I would avoid the BT-65.... It makes the MRod a lightweight by comparison....
Bob
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The AT-44 is not a light rifle.... and the long version is on the heavy side.... The BT-65 is a tank.... My 44 Long with a largish scope and bipod is 10 lbs.... If you don't like lugging a heavy gun around in the field, I would avoid the BT-65.... It makes the MRod a lightweight by comparison....
Bob
That's great advice Bob and I really appreciate it!
Question: What is the length of the "long" barrel on the AT44 and the length of the barrel that isn't "long"? Also, I understand that the long barrel gives more fps and accuracy, but I do not like or want the long, I can make up for the higher fps with the tune it will get anyway, right?
Thanks,
Al.
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I've never taken my 44 Long past 80 FPE, although that might be possible with additional porting mods.... The maximum I achieved (single shots, no usable shot string) was 78.4 FPE with EunJin Points (42 gr.).... but the highest power I achieved with a usable string averaged 72 FPE with 36 gr. Daystate pellets, where I got 12 shots within a 4% ES and 9 within 2%.... Unfortunately, the Daystate were horrible for accuracy, as were the EunJin 35 gr. Domes and 42 gr. Points, and the 31 gr. Baracudas were also not acceptable at long ranges, so I ended up detuning the gun for the only really accurate pellet, the 25 gr. JSB Kings.... That is why I am hoping that the new heavier JSB (said to be about 34 gr.) will be accurate and I can get the gun back up to around 70 FPE....
The heavy pellets really hold their energy better downrange.... 25 gr. Kings with a MV of 1070 were down to 898 (45.5 FPE) at 100 feet, while the 36 gr. Daystates, starting at a MV of 959 fps had only dropped about 100 fps to 857 fps (58.9 FPE) at the same distance.... no change in tuning on the gun.... That's 30% more FPE at 100 feet....
Bob
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The AT-44-Long and the BT-65 both have a 23" barrel, the standard AT-44 is 19.3".... The reservoirs are 255cc (BT-65), 230cc and 180cc (AT-44s).... The BT-65 weighs 9-9.4 lbs, the AT-44 weighs 7-7.9 lbs (7.9-8.8 for the Long).... all weights depending on the stock chosen, and bare rifle, no scope.... Since I was capable of tuning the 44-Long, and it had the same barrel length (and hence potential power) as the BT-65, that was my choice.... For any given tune you can never make up for the 3.7" difference in barrel length, they will always differ by about 40-50 fps....
Bob
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the Condor has never been known for being that accurate of a gun, ....regardless of the big name barrel.
Seems they do have some issues, but it's not the barrels.
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the Condor has never been known for being that accurate of a gun, ....regardless of the big name barrel.
It appears you missed my point... I said accuracy and power at once. :D :D
Compared to a Sumatra :D :D
And I've seen Condors compete in 100m matches against other superior rifles. Korean guns- zero times :D. But that's not to gauge how accurate a gun can be... Just saying :D
Airgunwarriors, me and Manny will not take away from the topic no more. I personally think for what you are after and what you wish to accomplish, the AT44-10 Long or BT65 are awesome candidates. Especially the side lever and bolt action parts. Sooo much better than any under-lever pcp. And those two Hatsans are beasts/can be beasts.
Good luck in the final decision!! :D Can't go wrong any way you go!
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What is not indicative is that those comp guns aren't even close to what you buy of the shelf, yes those guns can be made accurate but you really have to work on them, Frame flex isn't a mith :)
Anthony Storey won the nationals with Korean guns and Will Piatt is in the US Benchrest team with Korean guns,...just saying :)
Still think that the Sumatra is vastly superior to them Hatsans, just answering questions as the O.P. requested in the opening post :)
They are superior in :
Power
External power adjuster
Fast Cycling action
Ammo length and type that can be used
The Carbine is super Light and apparently the OP isn't into big heavy guns
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the Condor has never been known for being that accurate of a gun, ....regardless of the big name barrel.
It appears you missed my point... I said accuracy and power at once. :D :D
Compared to a Sumatra :D :D
And I've seen Condors compete in 100m matches against other superior rifles. Korean guns- zero times :D. But that's not to gauge how accurate a gun can be... Just saying :D
Airgunwarriors, me and Manny will not take away from the topic no more. I personally think for what you are after and what you wish to accomplish, the AT44-10 Long or BT65 are awesome candidates. Especially the side lever and bolt action parts. Sooo much better than any under-lever pcp. And those two Hatsans are beasts/can be beasts.
Good luck in the final decision!! :D Can't go wrong any way you go!
You are not taking away from the post!
I learn a lot in just about every post and everyone's opinion counts!
Please continue to chime-in!
Respectfully,
agw.
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I have a Hatsan 125 sniper .25 from AGD - $165 / shipped/ remanufactured - very happy with it - got licky!!!
Hits at 796/FPS, JSB kings 25.39 gr., the gun or myself can only contain it within 2.00" at 30 yards - i feel its doing the job and for less than $200.00. It's taken two raccoons without a second efforts.
Ive had a RWS 48 in .25, some years back, but it was not hitting at this velocity, but very accurate - IMHO!
For what it's worth....
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The AT-44-Long and the BT-65 both have a 23" barrel, the standard AT-44 is 19.3".... The reservoirs are 255cc (BT-65), 230cc and 180cc (AT-44s).... The BT-65 weighs 9-9.4 lbs, the AT-44 weighs 7-7.9 lbs (7.9-8.8 for the Long).... all weights depending on the stock chosen, and bare rifle, no scope.... Since I was capable of tuning the 44-Long, and it had the same barrel length (and hence potential power) as the BT-65, that was my choice.... For any given tune you can never make up for the 3.7" difference in barrel length, they will always differ by about 40-50 fps....
Bob
"The reservoirs are 255cc (BT-65), 230cc and 180cc (AT-44s).... "
Bob,
Thank you.
Question: why does the AT-44 have 2 different reservoir sizes?
Pretty sure I would want the 230cc, so which AT44 has the 230cc reservoir?
I understand what you are saying about the barrel length, tuning and power achievement.
Really not interested in a long barrel, so if I could achieve an fps that ranges from the mid to high 900s shooting ammo that weighs around 34-grain, then I would get the 19.3" barrel, if not, then the 23" inch barrel it will be!
What do you think?
I need to read all of the posts in this thread in relation to the Hatsan AT44 again so as to have a better grip on what it takes to get a certain level of power.
Thanks,
Al.
EDIT: Bob, I found the answer about the various reservoir sizes myself and should have figured it out immediately, but I tend to be a bit slow sometimes. ::)
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The AT-44 Long has a longer reservoir to go along with the longer barrel.... 23" barrel, 230 cc reservoir.... 19.3" barrel, 180 cc reservoir....
Getting mid to high 900's with the 19.3" barrel and 34 gr. pellets (68+ FPE) will be quite a challenge.... You will have to do ALL the mods I did and then find more on top of that....
Bob
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The AT-44-Long and the BT-65 both have a 23" barrel, the standard AT-44 is 19.3".... The reservoirs are 255cc (BT-65), 230cc and 180cc (AT-44s).... The BT-65 weighs 9-9.4 lbs, the AT-44 weighs 7-7.9 lbs (7.9-8.8 for the Long).... all weights depending on the stock chosen, and bare rifle, no scope.... Since I was capable of tuning the 44-Long, and it had the same barrel length (and hence potential power) as the BT-65, that was my choice.... For any given tune you can never make up for the 3.7" difference in barrel length, they will always differ by about 40-50 fps....
Bob
"The reservoirs are 255cc (BT-65), 230cc and 180cc (AT-44s).... "
Bob,
Thank you.
Question: why does the AT-44 have 2 different reservoir sizes?
Pretty sure I would want the 230cc, so which AT44 has the 230cc reservoir?
I understand what you are saying about the barrel length, tuning and power achievement.
Really not interested in a long barrel, so if I could achieve an fps that ranges from the mid to high 900s shooting ammo that weighs around 34-grain, then I would get the 19.3" barrel, if not, then the 23" inch barrel it will be!
What do you think?
I need to read all of the posts in this thread in relation to the Hatsan AT44 again so as to have a better grip on what it takes to get a certain level of power.
Thanks,
Al.
EDIT: Bob, I found the answer about the various reservoir sizes myself and should have figured it out immediately, but I tend to be a bit slow sometimes. ::)
"Really not interested in a long barrel, so if I could achieve an fps that ranges from the mid to high 900s shooting ammo that weighs around 34-grain, then I would get the 19.3" barrel, if not, then the 23" inch barrel it will be!"
Was really hoping that my next air-rifle could be on the compact side, so going to a 23" barrel makes it kinda tough, but it would be stupid of me not to take full advantage of the potential presented by the AT44 "Long" Model!
Based on all that I have read, the BT65 is just going to be a bit big for me, so I take comfort in knowing that the AT44 can be tuned to get really close to the power level of a BT65.
Thanks,
Al.
-
The AT-44 Long has a longer reservoir to go along with the longer barrel.... 23" barrel, 230 cc reservoir.... 19.3" barrel, 180 cc reservoir....
Getting mid to high 900's with the 19.3" barrel and 34 gr. pellets (68+ FPE) will be quite a challenge.... You will have to do ALL the mods I did and then find more on top of that....
Bob
Thanks Bob,
I'm going 23" for sure!
Al.
-
the Condor has never been known for being that accurate of a gun, ....regardless of the big name barrel.
It appears you missed my point... I said accuracy and power at once. :D :D
Compared to a Sumatra :D :D
And I've seen Condors compete in 100m matches against other superior rifles. Korean guns- zero times :D. But that's not to gauge how accurate a gun can be... Just saying :D
Airgunwarriors, me and Manny will not take away from the topic no more. I personally think for what you are after and what you wish to accomplish, the AT44-10 Long or BT65 are awesome candidates. Especially the side lever and bolt action parts. Sooo much better than any under-lever pcp. And those two Hatsans are beasts/can be beasts.
Good luck in the final decision!! :D Can't go wrong any way you go!
You are not taking away from the post!
I learn a lot in just about every post and everyone's opinion counts!
Please continue to chime-in!
Respectfully,
agw.
Thanks AGW!
One absolutely crucial thing that was missing from the supposed 'Sumatra superiority list' (and rightfully so!) was.. you got it...Accuracy.
So if accuracy is important to you for a .25, you are definitely on the right track with the Hatsans. All airguns need work done to get how we want them, and the Hatsans are notoriously easy to work on. They are quite known for great accuracy at longer ranges.
I'd highly recommend the At44-10 (long or short) as it seems to fit your bill quite nicely.
The side-lever trumps an inconvenient under-lever and is quite superior in terms of durability and ease of use, and actually let's you use a bipod. Bipods are ideal unless you are shooting hogs at sub 30 yard distances :D Or any other game for that matter.
Once again, I think you will be more than happy with the AT44-10 (either) and would not regret it. If or when you want to go up in terms of power, then take a look at the Sumatra or Condor :D Or go big bore ;D Slippery road these bigger calibers are (.25 and up) ;D 8)
-
You know I completely forgot to mention that marvelous side-lever on the AT-44 that makes it so easy to load and cock.... the BT-65s have either a side or rear bolt....
Bob
-
Based on a few weeks of research and the wealth of knowledge I have learned on this thread alone about some very nice .25 air-rifles that can be purchased for around $700.00 or less...here's what I have concluded:
.25 AIR-RIFLES CONSIDERED
1. AirForce Condor SS ($700.00 at PA)
(I did not choose this one because it does not have a repeater option and price as new.)
2. BT65 Elite ($485.71 at Hatsan)
(Pretty sure this one is just a bit to big for me, BUT i am interested in learning more about the conversion that HYspd mentioned that would make this air-rifle capable of shooting ammo such as Bob's Boattail Boolits and others like it!)
3. Sumatra 2500/500cc ($575.99 at PA)
(Wow, just read-up more on this air-rifle and it too is a beast...my goodness! :o, BUT, the lack of a removable reservoir is a "con" for me, but not a deal killer. I want to learn more from Bob and the person that commented about it being able to shoot .25 ammo from 25-grain up to 50-grain, or even higher than that??? I want to learn more about this information from PA: "The finely rifled (and 10x1mm threaded) steel barrel (1:18 RH twist)". I guess what I have learned here, is that the diameter of a 25-grain must be the same as a 50-grain??? How is it that such large variations in ammo weight can fit in the barrel of the Sumatra? This may offend some, but I am not a huge fan of the Sumatra's looks, so that too is a "con" for me, but not a deal killer.)
4. Benjamin Marauder Synthetic ($549.00 at PA)
(If after having a full-power tune, the Mrod cannot achieve the same power or energy levels of the other .25 air-rifles mentioned here, then I will not consider it. One question that weighs on my mind; is why some Air-Gunners are converting their Mrod to the 13ci/HPA bottle??? I have the QB-78 Deluxe with the 13ci/HPA conversion that is regulated at 1500-psi out-put, but would think that an Mrod with a tube could produce the same, if not better power or energy? Also, would not the weight of the tube be better balanced and not so nose heavy? I understand too that the springs can be a head-ache in the repeater clips? I think too with the Mrod, you must insure that it has the Green Mountain barrel if you want the straightest most accurate barrel possible? Still more to learn on this one, that's for sure, but for now, it is at bottom of list.)
5. 4. Hatsan AT44 S Long ($307.96 at Hatsan)
(Although this one does not have the dual clip holder, I still like it a lot and it is right now at the top of my list. The fact that it has a removeable air reservoir is a huge bonus! I love the idea of being able to have 1 or 2 reservoirs on stand-by for a day of hunting, accuracy practice or plinking! The side-lever is nice and looks very smooth to operate as well. Wondering if the mod mentioned by HYspd on the BT65 could be done to this AT44 model? Will know soon enough.)
If there's anything I am missing here, especially in reference to the Benjamin Marauder, please advise.
Respectfully,
agw.
-
All great choices. The Sumatra not so much, too impractical. I think with some power tuning, you will be quite happy with the AT44.
-
If you are considering using my 52 gr. Bob's Boattail, be advised it was designed for a 14" twist.... It should work fine in the MRod's 15.5" twist, but would be marginal in a 16" and likely unstable in anything longer.... I would doubt it would work in the Sumatra's 18" twist, and if you got the optional LW barrel on a Hatsan (they are available at extra cost), since they have a 450mm (17.7" twist) I would doubt it would work in that either.... I don't know what the twist is in the standard Hatsan barrel (which mine has, and it's very accurate with JSB Kings).... If the Condor is using an LW barrel, it likely wouldn't work in that either, and I don't know what other barrel the Condor might use....
Boattails have less drag because the air flows around the bullet as if it was longer than a flat-base bullet of the same length.... Unfortuantely, the bullet acts longer for stability as well.... The only other 50ish gr. bullets I am aware of are the RN .25 ACP bullets, either self-cast or from Hunter supply, or Mr. Hollowpoints.... I have not been able to get the RCBS 50 gr. I have cast to shoot accurately.... however others have had more luck.... They are, however, stable in an 18" twist, as are Mr. Hollowpoints up to 58 gr....
Bob
-
If you are considering using my 52 gr. Bob's Boattail, be advised it was designed for a 14" twist.... It should work fine in the MRod's 15.5" twist, but would be marginal in a 16" and likely unstable in anything longer.... I would doubt it would work in the Sumatra's 18" twist, and if you got the optional LW barrel on a Hatsan (they are available at extra cost), since they have a 450mm (17.7" twist) I would doubt it would work in that either.... I don't know what the twist is in the standard Hatsan barrel (which mine has, and it's very accurate with JSB Kings).... If the Condor is using an LW barrel, it likely wouldn't work in that either, and I don't know what other barrel the Condor might use....
Boattails have less drag because the air flows around the bullet as if it was longer than a flat-base bullet of the same length.... Unfortuantely, the bullet acts longer for stability as well.... The only other 50ish gr. bullets I am aware of are the RN .25 ACP bullets, either self-cast or from Hunter supply, or Mr. Hollowpoints.... I have not been able to get the RCBS 50 gr. I have cast to shoot accurately.... however others have had more luck.... They are, however, stable in an 18" twist, as are Mr. Hollowpoints up to 58 gr....
Bob
Perhaps I just got lucky, but my 24" LW choked shot your BBT's extremely well at 50 yards. So well that I'd like to get my hands on more for further testing!
-
the Condor has never been known for being that accurate of a gun, ....regardless of the big name barrel.
It appears you missed my point... I said accuracy and power at once. :D :D
Compared to a Sumatra :D :D
And I've seen Condors compete in 100m matches against other superior rifles. Korean guns- zero times :D. But that's not to gauge how accurate a gun can be... Just saying :D
Airgunwarriors, me and Manny will not take away from the topic no more. I personally think for what you are after and what you wish to accomplish, the AT44-10 Long or BT65 are awesome candidates. Especially the side lever and bolt action parts. Sooo much better than any under-lever pcp. And those two Hatsans are beasts/can be beasts.
Good luck in the final decision!! :D Can't go wrong any way you go!
You are not taking away from the post!
I learn a lot in just about every post and everyone's opinion counts!
Please continue to chime-in!
Respectfully,
agw.
Thanks AGW!
One absolutely crucial thing that was missing from the supposed 'Sumatra superiority list' (and rightfully so!) was.. you got it...Accuracy.
So if accuracy is important to you for a .25, you are definitely on the right track with the Hatsans. All airguns need work done to get how we want them, and the Hatsans are notoriously easy to work on. They are quite known for great accuracy at longer ranges.
I'd highly recommend the At44-10 (long or short) as it seems to fit your bill quite nicely.
The side-lever trumps an inconvenient under-lever and is quite superior in terms of durability and ease of use, and actually let's you use a bipod. Bipods are ideal unless you are shooting hogs at sub 30 yard distances :D Or any other game for that matter.
Once again, I think you will be more than happy with the AT44-10 (either) and would not regret it. If or when you want to go up in terms of power, then take a look at the Sumatra or Condor :D Or go big bore ;D Slippery road these bigger calibers are (.25 and up) ;D 8)
You are welcome! :D
Good point about the under-lever action by the way, as I am a bi-pod nut!
My plan for the AT44 Synthetic Long, would be to add some sling studs, as I like the idea of a sling too and it will allow me to attach a bi-pod!
Ever since the first video I ever watched showing an air-rifle with a side-lever cocking feature, I have wanted one! Just looks very smooth and easy to operate/cycle...a bit modern looking to me as well!
Of course accuracy is of great importance to me, especially accuracy out to and beyond 50+ yards! Based on all of the video reviews I have watched on the Hatsan AT44 and many other Hatsan models, you're correct...they are very accurate air-rifles, at short and long range!
As I mentioned in my most recent post, I'm just not a huge fan of the looks the Sumatra has. I like a more conventional look.
After a good full-power tune, external power adjuster and some sling studs, I feel confident that a Hatsan AT44 Synthetic Long will be just right for me as well!
Thank you very much,
agw.
-
If you are considering using my 52 gr. Bob's Boattail, be advised it was designed for a 14" twist.... It should work fine in the MRod's 15.5" twist, but would be marginal in a 16" and likely unstable in anything longer.... I would doubt it would work in the Sumatra's 18" twist, and if you got the optional LW barrel on a Hatsan (they are available at extra cost), since they have a 450mm (17.7" twist) I would doubt it would work in that either.... I don't know what the twist is in the standard Hatsan barrel (which mine has, and it's very accurate with JSB Kings).... If the Condor is using an LW barrel, it likely wouldn't work in that either, and I don't know what other barrel the Condor might use....
Boattails have less drag because the air flows around the bullet as if it was longer than a flat-base bullet of the same length.... Unfortuantely, the bullet acts longer for stability as well.... The only other 50ish gr. bullets I am aware of are the RN .25 ACP bullets, either self-cast or from Hunter supply, or Mr. Hollowpoints.... I have not been able to get the RCBS 50 gr. I have cast to shoot accurately.... however others have had more luck.... They are, however, stable in an 18" twist, as are Mr. Hollowpoints up to 58 gr....
Bob
Bob,
I guess the only way I would be able to use the Bob's Boattail Boolit, is if that modification that HYspd mentioned would work and if whatever the twist rate in a stock Hatsan barrel is would work? Regardless, I would not mind having some of those Bob's Boattails...just in case! ;D
For now, I am content with the AT44 just being a full-powered tuned .25 air-rifle that is capable of effectively sending 25-grain thru 34-grain air-gun ammo down-range with lots of energy, effectiveness and accuracy.
Also, while spending time with OleTomCat and HYspd, I hope to learn more about the Bob's Boattail Boolit and what is exactly best for sending it down-range...effectively.
There's no doubt in my mind that the day will come when I will want a big-bore air-rifle that can shoot boolits such as the one in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqc36dlodoU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqc36dlodoU)
Bob, sorry to be all over the place with this post, but what does your AT44 shoot 30+ grain ammo at...what fps?
I am asking in hopes of getting an idea of what best grain to have the .25 Nomad Pellet Maker Kit done in. I want it to be something that is not already commonly available, yet allow the AT44 with full-power tune to be able to sling it down range with a minimum fps in the mid 900s.
Respectfully,
Al.
-
I've read a few times in this thread about the Hastan's removable cylinder as a value added feature. I believe their are a few cons to the removable cylinder as a method to increase shot count in the field.
1) That spare is heavy, you may be better served by a small CF tank that you can hang on your pack or belt
2) The valve is brass and prone to damage from all unscrewing.
3) Field installation can introduce dirt into the system
4) Any valve mods will have to applied to all your spare cylinders.
I'm not knocking the design, I just don't think is field friendly.
Tom
-
I've read a few times in this thread about the Hastan's removable cylinder as a value added feature. I believe their are a few cons to the removable cylinder as a method to increase shot count in the field.
1) That spare is heavy, you may be better served by a small CF tank that you can hang on your pack or belt
2) The valve is brass and prone to damage from all unscrewing.
3) Field installation can introduce dirt into the system
4) Any valve mods will have to applied to all your spare cylinders.
I'm not knocking the design, I just don't think is field friendly.
Tom
All very good and what seem to be valid points. I guess whn changing out in the field, one must be attentive to keeping things clean. As far as weight goes, I wonder just how heavy those cylinders/reservoirs really are? How much lighter do you think a CF tank would be?
Not sure how one would overcome trying to prevent damage to the brass valve when unscrewing; you would think that Hatsan would have addressed such matters, especially with such a hot selling point/feature?
The tuning or mods to the valve part seems like it could be a headache. Guess the best thing to do there, would be to have additional cylinders ready for modding at same time that the valve/air-rifle is modded?
Tom, do you have a picture or link to see the CF tank?
Thanks for the in-put Tom,
Al.
-
Some examples form Joe B. I think Ninja has some new tanks that may be suitable too.
http://www.airtanksforsale.com/GuppyMinnows_small.jpg (http://www.airtanksforsale.com/GuppyMinnows_small.jpg)
http://www.airtanksforsale.com/GuppyMinnows.jpg (http://www.airtanksforsale.com/GuppyMinnows.jpg)
Tom
-
I've read a few times in this thread about the Hastan's removable cylinder as a value added feature. I believe their are a few cons to the removable cylinder as a method to increase shot count in the field.
All good points Tom but here are some solutions/facts-
1) That spare is heavy, you may be better served by a small CF tank that you can hang on your pack or belt Not that heavy at all in a good backpack out in the field! But having your small CF tank PLUS a spare cylinder out there would be great! Both super light in a backpack.
2) The valve is brass and prone to damage from all unscrewing. ??? They are only prone to damage from stronger metals or bumping them around. I don't know how you'd damage them by just unscrewing :o In fact, the only thing that would take a beating is the o-ring which is easily replaced. I'd recommend to use the degasser tool as a valve protector.
3) Field installation can introduce dirt into the system Good call but I think standard precautions can help easily avoid this.
4) Any valve mods will have to applied to all your spare cylinders. THIS is the biggest problem one may have! May be extremely difficult but not impossible to duplicate your desired tune. If one is determined enough, could be done but personally I wouldn't. I only thought of the removable cylinder as an aid in tuning ;D by not having to fully pump up the gun every time!
I'm not knocking the design, I just don't think is field friendly.
I'm just providing some solutions to those issues as OP is looking for all info he can gather. ;D
Tom
And the side-lever is smooth as heck! I like it more than bolt action. ;D Anti-double feed is a nice bonus too!
-
Some examples form Joe B. I think Ninja has some new tanks that may be suitable too.
http://www.airtanksforsale.com/GuppyMinnows_small.jpg (http://www.airtanksforsale.com/GuppyMinnows_small.jpg)
http://www.airtanksforsale.com/GuppyMinnows.jpg (http://www.airtanksforsale.com/GuppyMinnows.jpg)
Tom
Wow, a lot more compact than I thought!
How many 1000-psi top offs per tank would you say?
Thanks,
Al.
-
I've read a few times in this thread about the Hastan's removable cylinder as a value added feature. I believe their are a few cons to the removable cylinder as a method to increase shot count in the field.
All good points Tom but here are some solutions/facts-
1) That spare is heavy, you may be better served by a small CF tank that you can hang on your pack or belt Not that heavy at all in a good backpack out in the field! But having your small CF tank PLUS a spare cylinder out there would be great! Both super light in a backpack.
2) The valve is brass and prone to damage from all unscrewing. ??? They are only prone to damage from stronger metals or bumping them around. I don't know how you'd damage them by just unscrewing :o In fact, the only thing that would take a beating is the o-ring which is easily replaced. I'd recommend to use the degasser tool as a valve protector.
3) Field installation can introduce dirt into the system Good call but I think standard precautions can help easily avoid this.
4) Any valve mods will have to applied to all your spare cylinders. THIS is the biggest problem one may have! May be extremely difficult but not impossible to duplicate your desired tune. If one is determined enough, could be done but personally I wouldn't. I only thought of the removable cylinder as an aid in tuning ;D by not having to fully pump up the gun every time!
I'm not knocking the design, I just don't think is field friendly.
I'm just providing some solutions to those issues as OP is looking for all info he can gather. ;D
Tom
And the side-lever is smooth as heck! I like it more than bolt action. ;D Anti-double feed is a nice bonus too!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
-
I just thought I'd ask have you looked at bullpups?
that would give the shorter length not sure if you can
get kits here in the US, would have to do some looking but
here are some pics of some. First ones are sold here
http://www.guntuning.com/content.php?cms_id=167&lang=eng (http://www.guntuning.com/content.php?cms_id=167&lang=eng)
they have them for the bt65 and the at44.
(http://www.guntuning.com/galeria.php?src=foto_20130911161149.jpg)
(http://www.guntuning.com/galeria.php?src=foto_20131007202609.jpg)
Here's one a guy did right here on GTA
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z445/blackhawk00/at1.jpg)
Link:http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39148.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39148.0)
Just something to think about.
Joseph
-
Those are very very nice! I love the last one, and would like to add to my stock collection ;D That Hatsan can have many looks, these are the two stocks that I have now but would like to add two more that way I can change up according to how I feel that day....If I feel like a GS assassin then I will go with my AT44-10 Tact Stock ;D If I go out to the range maybe the bull pup or a very nice wood stock, If im doing a lot of hiking for GS maybe the bullpup or the Pneuma stock.
-
I love my M-125 TH in .25 cal
-
Laz.... Like anything else, twist programs produce results that are supposedly "optimized", in this case giving a Stability Factor of 1.5, where 1.0 is unstable (in theory).... In addition, the worst stability is right below Mach 1 (ie 1120 fps) and the BBT gets more stable the lower the velocity.... In fact, in a 16" twist at 900 fps, the SF = 1.5 which is in fact ideal.... but it drops to 1.3 at 1000 fps and 1.0 at 1120 in a 16" twist.... In an 18" twist, the SF = 1.25 at 800 fps (no problem), but drops to 1.0 at 1000 fps.... so if you drive it fast enough you may find it won't work in your LW.... or it may, as these calculations are only for design purposes, and I use them to hopefully avoid any negative surprises.... What gun to you have the LW on, and what velocity are you getting with the 52 gr. BBT?.... Have you ever measured the twist rate?....
Al, when set for the maximum PRACTICAL power, I can drive a 36 gr. pellet at 950 fps (72 FPE) for 9 shots (1 clip) within a 2% ES.... One thing you might consider about replacing the air reservoirs in the field.... It might be difficult to get two absolutely identical, and since the reservoir is located by the barrel bands, there is a POSSIBILITY that changing the reservoir MAY also change the POI, meaning you would need to resight the gun.... Obviously that would not be desireable, so I agree with Tom that I would prefer topping up the gun from a pony tank to swapping out the cylinder in the field....
Bob
-
Laz.... Like anything else, twist programs produce results that are supposedly "optimized", in this case giving a Stability Factor of 1.5, where 1.0 is unstable (in theory).... In addition, the worst stability is right below Mach 1 (ie 1120 fps) and the BBT gets more stable the lower the velocity.... In fact, in a 16" twist at 900 fps, the SF = 1.5 which is in fact ideal.... but it drops to 1.3 at 1000 fps and 1.0 at 1120 in a 16" twist.... In an 18" twist, the SF = 1.25 at 800 fps (no problem), but drops to 1.0 at 1000 fps.... so if you drive it fast enough you may find it won't work in your LW.... or it may, as these calculations are only for design purposes, and I use them to hopefully avoid any negative surprises....
Al, when set for the maximum PRACTICAL power, I can drive a 36 gr. pellet at 950 fps (72 FPE) for 9 shots (1 clip) within a 2% ES.... One thing you might consider about replacing the air reservoirs in the field.... It might be difficult to get two absolutely identical, and since the reservoir is located by the barrel bands, there is a POSSIBILITY that changing the reservoir MAY also change the POI, meaning you would need to resight the gun.... Obviously that would not be desireable, so I agree with Tom that I would prefer topping up the gun from a pony tank to swapping out the cylinder in the field....
Bob
Thanks for the info Bob. I know not to try to push them past 900 now. Still, the benefit of using them vs normal pellets is huge at longer range for medium game. ;D I can live with 850ish fps.
-
If you have the ability, push them until they become unstable.... I'd LOVE to know how close the twist program is.... What gun do you have the LW on?.... Have you ever checked the twist rate by pushing a tight patch through the barrel and measuring the distance for 1 full turn on the cleaning rod?.... all good info....
Bob
-
If you have the ability, push them until they become unstable.... I'd LOVE to know how close the twist program is.... What gun do you have the LW on?.... Have you ever checked the twist rate by pushing a tight patch through the barrel and measuring the distance for 1 full turn on the cleaning rod?.... all good info....
Bob
A Condor .25 factory barrel. So 24" choked :o I haven't checked the twist rate but I've read they are typically 1 in 16.
-
One thing you might consider about replacing the air reservoirs in the field.... It might be difficult to get two absolutely identical, and since the reservoir is located by the barrel bands, there is a POSSIBILITY that changing the reservoir MAY also change the POI, meaning you would need to resight the gun.... Obviously that would not be desireable, so I agree with Tom that I would prefer topping up the gun from a pony tank to swapping out the cylinder in the field....
Bob"[/b]
Bob,
If there's one thing I hate, as I'm sure many others hate as well; that's having to re-zero a scope! After having seen the small size of those "pony tanks", it is a very strong consideration for me.
Wonder how many re-fills or top-offs one could get from the medium sized pony tank, like if you only use up 1000-psi after having shot your usable shot count?
Just watched a video of a guy shooting the AT44 Long Synthetic like the one I am pretty sure I'd like to have and he was averaging 287-mps, which I think comes out to about 940-fps using the JSB 25.4-grains and his AT44 is stock power, no tune! Pretty awesome!
Thanks again,
Al.
-
I just thought I'd ask have you looked at bullpups?
that would give the shorter length not sure if you can
get kits here in the US, would have to do some looking but
here are some pics of some. First ones are sold here
http://www.guntuning.com/content.php?cms_id=167&lang=eng (http://www.guntuning.com/content.php?cms_id=167&lang=eng)
they have them for the bt65 and the at44.
(http://www.guntuning.com/galeria.php?src=foto_20130911161149.jpg)
(http://www.guntuning.com/galeria.php?src=foto_20131007202609.jpg)
Here's one a guy did right here on GTA
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z445/blackhawk00/at1.jpg)
Link:http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39148.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39148.0)
Just something to think about.
Joseph
I was not a fan of bull-pups until I saw that Snow-Peak P12. There are a few others out there that I like, but they are sooo expensive!
Now, that white one in the bottom picture, I would love to put a AT44 .25 in that, all day long, in black! That looks awesome and the trigger looks great! :D
I am not skilled at creating such things, so for me it is a dream to have that. :(
Thank you for the in-put and sharing those pictures/link!
agw.
-
http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/ (http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/)
Al, here is a good fill calc. from Lloyd. Just plugin the the numbers and your questions will be answered :)
Some bottle reference....
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o553/QVTOM/Junk/ninjapnys_zps7582c3ac.jpg~original) (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/QVTOM/media/Junk/ninjapnys_zps7582c3ac.jpg.html)
-
I love my M-125 TH in .25 cal
I'm sorry, but what is a M-125?
Thanks,
agw.
-
http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/ (http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/)
Al, here is a good fill calc. from Lloyd. Just plugin the the numbers and your questions will be answered :)
That's awesome, Thanks a lot! :D
Al.
-
From Bob (esterne)...
"Al, when set for the maximum PRACTICAL power, I can drive a 36 gr. pellet at 950 fps (72 FPE) for 9 shots (1 clip) within a 2% ES.... "
:o
That's awesome Bob!
Based on that information, I think I will have the .25 Nomads made to be 35-grain.?.
Bob, if you wanted to , you could increase that shot count by dialing down the power a bit with the power adjuster, right? If so, that too is very awesome!
Thanks a lot for the information!
Actually just learned that Jason B. (JTB530) has the same black synthetic AT44 Long model, Hoping he can do the full-power tune and the addition of the external power adjuster feature! ;D
Respectfully,
Al.
-
for the BT-65, keeping things clean in the field is not a big deal...
the degassing tool is a fairly large thread on cap over an inch diameter and 2" long with a set screw threaded down through the center of the closed end...turn the screw in and it pressed on the end of the valve to release air.....back it off and it's a cover for the valve of an extra air res...
one point that needs to be made clear about the Hatsan air res...the VALVE is in the end of the res...when you change to res you are also changing the valve...because the valve is right there and you don't have to disassemble half the gun to get to it, tuning mods are fairly quick and the effcieincy mods (plugging the extra ports, filling the transfer groove that connects all the ports and opening up a single port to directly align with the transfer port) are well worth the hour or two you can spend ding them...alas I never actually got to do them...
also, again I only have experience with the BT-65, the barrel band floats around the air res, it's basically just helps guide to the res towards the receiver....once the res is mated up all the band does is locate the fore end of the stock in relation to the muzzle end of the barrel...
-
You can trade off less power for more shot count in pretty much and PCP.... Figure the total FPE per fill will stay about the same.... 10 shots at 60 FPE = 20 shots at 30 FPE, within reason....
Bob
-
Wow, this has been a fun and very educational thread for me and I really appreciate all of the in-put from everyone! :D
There's pretty much no doubt in my mind that I will get the .25 Hatsan AT44 Long with synthetic stock. Just have a few other debts to take care of first and then I can place my order. ;D
I want to dress her up with the following functional items after she has had her full-power tune and external power adjuster added:
Sling Studs-
2-inch rail under the forward part of the forearm for a lamp light-
Bi-pod from Trenier Outdoor Products-
Scope from Trenier Outdoor Products w/side focus or side AO adjuster wheel-
LDC to keep her quiet-
Possibly a Mossy Oaks "Real-Tree" Camo Wrap in the future-
Need to look into those portable fill-stations, pony tanks, refill bottles that QVTom recommended for sure!
Thanks again,
agw.
-
LOL! Save your money on cosmetics, and get the pump filling situation squared away first. This is really important to long life of the rifle and pump.
Good air in / Good air out :D
Truthfully bud, you ain't the first, and you won't be the last.
-
LOL! Save your money on cosmetics, and get the pump filling situation squared away first. This is really important to long life of the rifle and pump.
Good air in / Good air out :D
Truthfully bud, you ain't the first, and you won't be the last.
"I want to dress her up with the following functional items after she has had her full-power tune and external power adjuster added:"
No cosmetics, all "FUNCTIONAL" acessories...even the wrap when hunting!
No ornaments here!
I have 2 PCP air-rifles now and fill them effectively with a HPP.
Not sure what you mean by "won't be the first and won't be the last"???
Thanks,
Al.
-
the Condor has never been known for being that accurate of a gun, ....regardless of the big name barrel.
It appears you missed my point... I said accuracy and power at once. :D :D
Compared to a Sumatra :D :D
And I've seen Condors compete in 100m matches against other superior rifles. Korean guns- zero times :D. But that's not to gauge how accurate a gun can be... Just saying :D
Airgunwarriors, me and Manny will not take away from the topic no more. I personally think for what you are after and what you wish to accomplish, the AT44-10 Long or BT65 are awesome candidates. Especially the side lever and bolt action parts. Sooo much better than any under-lever pcp. And those two Hatsans are beasts/can be beasts.
Good luck in the final decision!! :D Can't go wrong any way you go!
You are not taking away from the post!
I learn a lot in just about every post and everyone's opinion counts!
Please continue to chime-in!
Respectfully,
agw.
Thanks AGW!
One absolutely crucial thing that was missing from the supposed 'Sumatra superiority list' (and rightfully so!) was.. you got it...Accuracy.
So if accuracy is important to you for a .25, you are definitely on the right track with the Hatsans. All airguns need work done to get how we want them, and the Hatsans are notoriously easy to work on. They are quite known for great accuracy at longer ranges.
I'd highly recommend the At44-10 (long or short) as it seems to fit your bill quite nicely.
The side-lever trumps an inconvenient under-lever and is quite superior in terms of durability and ease of use, and actually let's you use a bipod. Bipods are ideal unless you are shooting hogs at sub 30 yard distances :D Or any other game for that matter.
Once again, I think you will be more than happy with the AT44-10 (either) and would not regret it. If or when you want to go up in terms of power, then take a look at the Sumatra or Condor :D Or go big bore ;D Slippery road these bigger calibers are (.25 and up) ;D 8)
LOL, I can pull a million threads on Sumatra accuracy, but I just link this one from a total Sumatra Newbie
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=71536.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=71536.0)
Ho boy, a nice Sumatra Carbine is one of the most pleasureful rifles to carry in the woods for some serious hunting, at just over 6 Pounds and super short she is a winner :) :)
-
Ho boy, a nice Sumatra Carbine is one of the most pleasureful rifles to carry in the woods for some serious hunting, at just over 6 Pounds and super short she is a winner :) :)
Yeah, I had a recent introduction to the Sumatra carbine. They are unbelievable compact an light, much like the Winchester 1873. I can
't comment on the accuracy, it wasn't that type of shooting session. Never heard anything negative about accuracy though. Oh, almost forgot. NOT backyard friendly without a LDC.
Don't overlook the Sumatra for a field gun
Tom
-
Ho boy, a nice Sumatra Carbine is one of the most pleasureful rifles to carry in the woods for some serious hunting, at just over 6 Pounds and super short she is a winner :) :)
Yeah, I had a recent introduction to the Sumatra carbine. They are unbelievable compact an light, much like the Winchester 1873. I can
't comment on the accuracy, it wasn't that type of shooting session. Never heard anything negative about accuracy though. Oh, almost forgot. NOT backyard friendly without a LDC.
Don't overlook the Sumatra for a field gun
Tom
Because I'm not "money rich", I am taking baby steps for now, but there's no doubt that I want/will go big-bore/.357 next and the Condor SS may become a candidate again, as having a repeater in a big-bore or .357 is not of great importance to me, although it would be nice. Not sure if the Sumatra offers .357 or big-bore, but it too would be a candidate if it does.
Thanks,
agw.
-
AWG,
--●□●□●I was not a fan of bull-pups until I saw that Snow-Peak P12. There are a few others out there that I like, but they are sooo expensive!■□■□■□■□
P-12 IS AVAILABLE for per-order they have 20 in stock,
$749, just coming out of proto is the P-12 repester using Mrod mags. Looked smooth and quiet in the video.
It looked like you could swap barrels and up size,. Also they are selling 4500psi compressors for a mere $1295 delivered, and a couple of long guns. MROD.COM
Be Well,
Gator
They
-
AWG,
--●□●□●I was not a fan of bull-pups until I saw that Snow-Peak P12. There are a few others out there that I like, but they are sooo expensive!■□■□■□■□
P-12 IS AVAILABLE for per-order they have 20 in stock,
$749, just coming out of proto is the P-12 repester using Mrod mags. Looked smooth and quiet in the video.
It looked like you could swap barrels and up size,. Also they are selling 4500psi compressors for a mere $1295 delivered, sndca couplevof long guns. MROD.COM
Be Well,
Gator
They
Actually, a friend of mine ordered a P12. He is also a tuner of air-guns, so I look very forward to hearing a review from him. He's a GTA member, so I expect we will see a report from him hopefully soon.
$700.00+ is a little to much for my budget at the moment, which is why the .25 AT44 Long is perfect for me right now.
Plus, you must figure the cost to make the P12 a .25.
My friend that ordered the P12 happens to have a spare LW .25 barrel and yes not quite sure what to do with it (he owns around 16 air-guns, + or -), so maybe he will try to put it on that P12 and we can all get a report on that.
I'm sure he will tune the P12 for everything its worth!:)
nervoustrigger held a P12 at the GTA Fun-Shoot and said it was surprisingly light in weight, guess because of that titanium reservoir.?.
If and when I ever get a bull-pup, I'm 99% sure it will be the P12 and by that time, we should know all that we need to know about it and any/all bugs and upgrades should be figured out.:-)
In my humble opinion, the P12 being a repeater should be a no-brainer.
That P12 is going to put a dent in the sales of bull-pups costing over twice as much if it delivers!
Thank you Gatorproof,
agw.
-
AWG,
--●□●□●I was not a fan of bull-pups until I saw that Snow-Peak P12. There are a few others out there that I like, but they are sooo expensive!■□■□■□■□
P-12 IS AVAILABLE for per-order they have 20 in stock,
$749, just coming out of proto is the P-12 repester using Mrod mags. Looked smooth and quiet in the video.
It looked like you could swap barrels and up size,. Also they are selling 4500psi compressors for a mere $1295 delivered, sndca couplevof long guns. MROD.COM
Be Well,
Gator
Actually Gatorproof, I am angry with you for bringing that P12 to my attention again, ugggh!
Al.
-
☆★☆★☆BOB THANKS SO MUCH FOR LINKING ME TO THE HATSAN Mods Help
I trust your tune advise with blind faith. ☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
Al,
If you would have bought that refurb bt65, then I would not been so tempted.
Happily I lost all restraint tonight. Rick called me and after he answered my questions I said I'll that take that darn BT65 Elite. No will power. If Al would have bought, then I wouldn't need to eat cat food for the rest of the month, lol. The good thing is I guess, and partly why I bought another Hatsan is because I have three 255cc exchangable air tanks. 765ccs all combined and that means about 90-100 shots for the BT65 and 180 shots for the Galation
Without lugging big air. Rick tell's me the refurbs they are selling are returns from P.A.and Air Gun Depot. If they are defective or scratched up, then they are used for parts. So the refurbs are like new with all the goodies that come with a new gun. The 28% ($200) discount is in this case costs you 9 months warranty.
Why don't more factories add the the extras as the higher line Hatsan PCPs do.?
I mean exchangable air tanks is a no brainer. Marauder would probably double their sales if you could buy portable air tubes, Weaver scope mounts and the 3 Weaver forestock mounts.
If they offered open sights and my favorite, adjustable rear butt plate. Being able to slide
The butt pad down that extra 1" helps line up my lanky frame to get the glass in the best spot for me?
Good luck Al,
I hope you find that perfect rifle. Maybe you could just buy the rifle first, then start looking
for a used air supply. It is my guess, lots of guys buy a pump and decide that it sux, then go look for a tank. They end up wasting that $200+ they spent for a pump.
Or you could buy a used pump for say $75 and tuff it out for awhile then sell the pump again for $75. No harm no foul.
http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114)
Be Well,
Gator
Thanks!
Al.
-
☆★☆★☆BOB THANKS SO MUCH FOR LINKING ME TO THE HATSAN Mods Help
I trust your tune advise with blind faith. ☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
Al,
If you would have bought that refurb bt65, then I would not been so tempted.
Happily I lost all restraint tonight. Rick called me and after he answered my questions I said I'll that take that darn BT65 Elite. No will power. If Al would have bought, then I wouldn't need to eat cat food for the rest of the month, lol. The good thing is I guess, and partly why I bought another Hatsan is because I have three 255cc exchangable air tanks. 765ccs all combined and that means about 90-100 shots for the BT65 and 180 shots for the Galation
Without lugging big air. Rick tell's me the refurbs they are selling are returns from P.A.and Air Gun Depot. If they are defective or scratched up, then they are used for parts. So the refurbs are like new with all the goodies that come with a new gun. The 28% ($200) discount is in this case costs you 9 months warranty.
Why don't more factories add the the extras as the higher line Hatsan PCPs do.?
I mean exchangable air tanks is a no brainer. Marauder would probably double their sales if you could buy portable air tubes, Weaver scope mounts and the 3 Weaver forestock mounts.
If they offered open sights and my favorite, adjustable rear butt plate. Being able to slide
The butt pad down that extra 1" helps line up my lanky frame to get the glass in the best spot for me?
Good luck Al,
I hope you find that perfect rifle. Maybe you could just buy the rifle first, then start looking
for a used air supply. It is my guess, lots of guys buy a pump and decide that it sux, then go look for a tank. They end up wasting that $200+ they spent for a pump.
Or you could buy a used pump for say $75 and tuff it out for awhile then sell the pump again for $75. No harm no foul.
http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114)
Be Well,
Gator
I must have p/o'd or perturbed Rick E. at Hatsan Refurbs off by possibly, accidentally using the expression, "Take care" or something at the end of an e-mail, as he will not reply to any of my inquiries, nor will he return any phone calls about the .25 Hatsan AT44 Long Synthetic for only $307.00! >:(
For those of you that don't know, Rick (also of airgunweb, where you get the facts, not the fluff) does not approve of the expression..."Take care", as he so states at the bottom of his web-site page. To each their own, I have no problem if he does not like that expression or term and if I did accidentally use it at the end of my inquiry e-mail...I do apologize, but gee-whiz, he does not have to blow someone off for it!
Guess the AT44 won't be mine after all!
O.h. well, thanks for all of yalls help and advice regardless,
Al.
I dont think that you got it right, He is just hard to contact some times and he is real busy right now shooting American Airgun for all of us to enjoy, they are on the second episode and they have been good ones!
-
☆★☆★☆BOB THANKS SO MUCH FOR LINKING ME TO THE HATSAN Mods Help
I trust your tune advise with blind faith. ☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆
Al,
If you would have bought that refurb bt65, then I would not been so tempted.
Happily I lost all restraint tonight. Rick called me and after he answered my questions I said I'll that take that darn BT65 Elite. No will power. If Al would have bought, then I wouldn't need to eat cat food for the rest of the month, lol. The good thing is I guess, and partly why I bought another Hatsan is because I have three 255cc exchangable air tanks. 765ccs all combined and that means about 90-100 shots for the BT65 and 180 shots for the Galation
Without lugging big air. Rick tell's me the refurbs they are selling are returns from P.A.and Air Gun Depot. If they are defective or scratched up, then they are used for parts. So the refurbs are like new with all the goodies that come with a new gun. The 28% ($200) discount is in this case costs you 9 months warranty.
Why don't more factories add the the extras as the higher line Hatsan PCPs do.?
I mean exchangable air tanks is a no brainer. Marauder would probably double their sales if you could buy portable air tubes, Weaver scope mounts and the 3 Weaver forestock mounts.
If they offered open sights and my favorite, adjustable rear butt plate. Being able to slide
The butt pad down that extra 1" helps line up my lanky frame to get the glass in the best spot for me?
Good luck Al,
I hope you find that perfect rifle. Maybe you could just buy the rifle first, then start looking
for a used air supply. It is my guess, lots of guys buy a pump and decide that it sux, then go look for a tank. They end up wasting that $200+ they spent for a pump.
Or you could buy a used pump for say $75 and tuff it out for awhile then sell the pump again for $75. No harm no foul.
http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114 (http://www.airgunproshop.com/hatsan-airguns/viewitem.php?productid=114)
Be Well,
Gator
I must have p/o'd or perturbed Rick E. at Hatsan Refurbs off by possibly, accidentally using the expression, "Take care" or something at the end of an e-mail, as he will not reply to any of my inquiries, nor will he return any phone calls about the .25 Hatsan AT44 Long Synthetic for only $307.00! >:(
For those of you that don't know, Rick (also of airgunweb, where you get the facts, not the fluff) does not approve of the expression..."Take care", as he so states at the bottom of his web-site page. To each their own, I have no problem if he does not like that expression or term and if I did accidentally use it at the end of my inquiry e-mail...I do apologize, but gee-whiz, he does not have to blow someone off for it!
Guess the AT44 won't be mine after all!
O.h. well, thanks for all of yalls help and advice regardless,
Al.
I dont think that you got it right, He is just hard to contact some times and he is real busy right now shooting American Airgun for all of us to enjoy, they are on the second episode and they have been good ones!
Thanks for the comment Bwalton. :D
Regardless of what it is, I sometimes believe that things happen for a reason. I have decided on something else altogether, which I feel somewhat bad about, as so many of you helped and contributed in helping me make what I thought was a final decision on a .25 air-rifle.
Thanks again,
agw.
-
Hmmmm..
I'd like to see that Statement about Take Care for myself..
But Hatsan won't getting any recommendations or purchases from me
Take Care is an old Irish Protestant wishing of wellness shortened from Take care for your soul and The Lord will watch out for you....
being half Irish Protestant and Half Brazilian Catholic, I would feel awkward promoting a company who's US National Representative is openly professing to be "Anti" half my personal heritage...
-
Fortunately he has recently up-dated his site and removed the paragraph on the subject of why you should not close with the term "Take Care".
Good for him! :D
Take care,
agw.
-
My old parting phrase was " Take Care, Beware, Don't Stare and All that There"
It used to get a smile or two.
Be Well,
Gator
-
My old parting phrase was " Take Care, Beware, Don't Stare and All that There"
It used to get a smile or two.
Be Well,
Gator
Like I said before, "to each their own". If someone does not like, or approve of something, I respect that.
To Rick's credit, he did call and I was very glad that he did. ;D
I over reacted when i got no reply after almost 1.5-days and apologize for being a cry baby! Bad mood that night. ::)
Respectfully, :D
Al.
-
Al,
I am tied up tonight but please check my post tommorow to tell everyone how much Rick had my back this week. You might not believe what he did for me.
Be Well,
Gator
-
Al,
I am tied up tonight but please check my post tommorow to tell everyone how much Rick had my back this week. You might not believe what he did for me.
Be Well,
Gator
Sounds pretty awesome whatever it is; look forward to reading about it Gator!:)
Thanks for sharing,
AGW/Al.
-
Hmmmm..
I'd like to see that Statement about Take Care for myself..
But Hatsan won't getting any recommendations or purchases from me
Take Care is an old Irish Protestant wishing of wellness shortened from Take care for your soul and The Lord will watch out for you....
being half Irish Protestant and Half Brazilian Catholic, I would feel awkward promoting a company who's US National Representative is openly professing to be "Anti" half my personal heritage...
That's funny... Being Armenian I'm not sure if I could purchase a Turkish gun... I've had Turkish friends before but I dunno, it's tough stuff :) Tough time for it if you look at the pcp market right now.
-
Hmmmm..
I'd like to see that Statement about Take Care for myself..
But Hatsan won't getting any recommendations or purchases from me
Take Care is an old Irish Protestant wishing of wellness shortened from Take care for your soul and The Lord will watch out for you....
being half Irish Protestant and Half Brazilian Catholic, I would feel awkward promoting a company who's US National Representative is openly professing to be "Anti" half my personal heritage...
That's funny... Being Armenian I'm not sure if I could purchase a Turkish gun... I've had Turkish friends before but I dunno, it's tough stuff :) Tough time for it if you look at the pcp market right now.
I don't understand what you mean by "tough time for it if you look at PCP market right now"? Do you mean sales are slow? Or, its a bad time to buy a PCP?
Thanks,
agw.
-
Hey AWG (Al),
I am retired, but I was self employed for the last 12 years of the labor force. So having more then one business is crazy busy. . You better just figure 7 days a week and 12-14 .hours a day
First I don't know if people realize how many hats Rick wears? He has his reviews, his sales, his American Air Gunner involment, as well as a service type manager for Hatsan and he has a family who need to see him also. Rick answers every comment on his reviews. ( Not something Ted does, it is very time consuming.)
Speaking of family,
He called me from a fast food drive up window, answered all my questions, about buying a Refurb rifle from Hatsan site. Then asked if he could help with any other questions.
I mentioned I had a gun at the warranty place in Arkansas and I had not heard from them, but to be fair that had it for 2 working weeks. Then I mentioned that I had filled out request and a couple emails to Hatsan to ask for the red Truglo filiment that had disappeared from my AT44 front open sights.
.
▪▪▪▪Rick told me that management at Hatsan wanted to know if and what they had for gaps in their service. ººººº I ordered the BT65 Elite from Rick. Sunday.
Tuesday Hatsan contacted me and told me they had installed a new trigger in my Galation, they were not sure why my air cylinder nut was getting hammered. They said it is shooting great so go ahead and use it "PLUS THEY GAVE ME AND EXTRA $169 air cylinder and sent me a complete new front site assy. for my AT44.
I told a Hatsan service guy that I bought a refurb rifle from Hatsan sales and I hoped my new BT would come soon also.
Hatsan service guy emailed me back and said they were shipping both guns together.ººº This is all because Rick went to bat for me with Hatsan service!!ººº
Rick, was GOOD TO HIS WORD. Rick and Hatsan FedEx-ed
My guns on Tuesday and I had them 3 days later on Friday.
So Rick, in 6 days, solved all my warranty and gun sale needs. I consider that great service. Simular to P.A. except more personal.
I had a couple issues with the refurb gun, ◇◆◇◆◇◆ Rick offered advise and told me if it was not right by Monday, he would get my new refurb shipped to him, no freight fee and he would fix it, .How can I beat that.?●○●○●○Rick emailed me again Sunday night and asked me if I was satisfied with the refurb and if all my concerns had been met.
¤¤¤ Who does that on a Sunday evening? ¤¤¤
Turns out my problems were because my barrel was very snug . It didn't want to fire every time. Just needed a little lead massage. That and the bolt action was so tight I had trouble getting it to slot all the way open. Just something I as a rookie was not aware of. The BT action is much heavier then the AT and the Galation. A little lube and and working the action smoothed it out a lot. I had managed to get an extra pellet in the barrel, pushed them back out from muzzle and a piece of pellet fell down in the clip advancing mechanism. Let's say I learned a couple of basic air gun maintenance things.
The refurb BT65 Elite .25 was $486. The one I bought had, NEW BARREL, NEW BREECH, NEW TRIGGER, NEW CLIPS (4 Total ) NEW SLING☆☆Hatsan throw in a♡♡ free tin of pellets ($15) and a free clip.($14) ♥♥ love free stuff.
Hatsan warranty on refurbs is 90 days but my gun was new
Except the hard shell rifle case and the synthetic stock.
I saved $200 plus about $30 in freebies, that seemed like a lot of gun and extras to me.
Rick has treated me with 110% customer satisfaction.
BTW, I own two other Hatsan PCPs both with air strippers and they bark. The AT in .22 louder then Galation in .25. However, even with air stripper the BT65 Elite is way way beyond bark. It is dig out the ear protectors loud. Louder them my Remington , 22 PB.
Enjoy your shooting,
Gator
-
Rick Eusler is a good guy and will do the most he can do to support a Hatsan customer. He wants to get them going here in the States. He's done his very best for the last couple years. Understand that HATSAN is really new to the USA. Only a couple years. The start up hasn't been the best. I can't say that you should spend your money there, right now. But I wanna see them succeed.
They (Hatsan) have got to come up in design/quality consistence, and parts, for many of us to accept them as a top choice. Our worldwide brethren are quite aware of what "we Americans" are now finding out with their air rifles.
-
Hey AWG (Al),
I am retired, but I was self employed for the last 12 years of the labor force. So having more then one business is crazy busy. . You better just figure 7 days a week and 12-14 .hours a day
First I don't know if people realize how many hats Rick wears? He has his reviews, his sales, his American Air Gunner involment, as well as a service type manager for Hatsan and he has a family who need to see him also. Rick answers every comment on his reviews. ( Not something Ted does, it is very time consuming.)
Speaking of family,
He called me from a fast food drive up window, answered all my questions, about buying a Refurb rifle from Hatsan site. Then asked if he could help with any other questions.
I mentioned I had a gun at the warranty place in Arkansas and I had not heard from them, but to be fair that had it for 2 working weeks. Then I mentioned that I had filled out request and a couple emails to Hatsan to ask for the red Truglo filiment that had disappeared from my AT44 front open sights.
.
▪▪▪▪Rick told me that management at Hatsan wanted to know if and what they had for gaps in their service. ººººº I ordered the BT65 Elite from Rick. Sunday.
Tuesday Hatsan contacted me and told me they had installed a new trigger in my Galation, they were not sure why my air cylinder nut was getting hammered. They said it is shooting great so go ahead and use it "PLUS THEY GAVE ME AND EXTRA $169 air cylinder and sent me a complete new front site assy. for my AT44.
I told a Hatsan service guy that I bought a refurb rifle from Hatsan sales and I hoped my new BT would come soon also.
Hatsan service guy emailed me back and said they were shipping both guns together.ººº This is all because Rick went to bat for me with Hatsan service!!ººº
Rick, was GOOD TO HIS WORD. Rick and Hatsan FedEx-ed
My guns on Tuesday and I had them 3 days later on Friday.
So Rick, in 6 days, solved all my warranty and gun sale needs. I consider that great service. Simular to P.A. except more personal.
I had a couple issues with the refurb gun, ◇◆◇◆◇◆ Rick offered advise and told me if it was not right by Monday, he would get my new refurb shipped to him, no freight fee and he would fix it, .How can I beat that.?●○●○●○Rick emailed me again Sunday night and asked me if I was satisfied with the refurb and if all my concerns had been met.
¤¤¤ Who does that on a Sunday evening? ¤¤¤
Turns out my problems were because my barrel was very snug . It didn't want to fire every time. Just needed a little lead massage. That and the bolt action was so tight I had trouble getting it to slot all the way open. Just something I as a rookie was not aware of. The BT action is much heavier then the AT and the Galation. A little lube and and working the action smoothed it out a lot. I had managed to get an extra pellet in the barrel, pushed them back out from muzzle and a piece of pellet fell down in the clip advancing mechanism. Let's say I learned a couple of basic air gun maintenance things.
The refurb BT65 Elite .25 was $486. The one I bought had, NEW BARREL, NEW BREECH, NEW TRIGGER, NEW CLIPS (4 Total ) NEW SLING☆☆Hatsan throw in a♡♡ free tin of pellets ($15) and a free clip.($14) ♥♥ love free stuff.
Hatsan warranty on refurbs is 90 days but my gun was new
Except the hard shell rifle case and the synthetic stock.
I saved $200 plus about $30 in freebies, that seemed like a lot of gun and extras to me.
Rick has treated me with 110% customer satisfaction.
BTW, I own two other Hatsan PCPs both with air strippers and they bark. The AT in .22 louder then Galation in .25. However, even with air stripper the BT65 Elite is way way beyond bark. It is dig out the ear protectors loud. Louder them my Remington , 22 PB.
Enjoy your shooting,
Gator
Rick is a great guy, he has a real passion for the hobby and the ppl in the hobby, He will use what ever power that he has to make you happy........remember facts not blufff ;D
every gun that I purchased was one that he gave a great review on, and they have all been spot on...
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Hey there Everybody.. My ears were burning so I figured I come check what's going on. I wanted to say thanks for all the guys that give me the benefit of the doubt. I really appreciate it. There were a couple of questions that were raised that I wanted to take a few moments to address.
I do wear a lot of hats: Dog River Design, LLC - web consulting and management company which I own and is my primary business, AirgunWeb.com - consultant for PA, AGD, Umarex, Gamo, Hatsan, Inovairtech, MegaBOOM, and many more. I wish I could say that I'm 100% responsive and that I never make any mistakes.. but anyone that knows me would know that I'd just be lying. I do the best that I can do with the given hours in a day and then I setup to take on the next day. For those that understand and can respect that, I say thank you so much for your support. For those that yet want more, I ask that you forgive me for not being as responsive as I guess I should have been.
There seems to have been some "to do" about my opinion of the phrase "take care." Interestingly enough, I've not had anyone personally approach me about it. To clear the air, please allow me a little space to explain.
Here is the statement in question. It is at the bottom of all my email signatures from the email accounts of companies that I own. It's not, is not meant to be, included if I email on behalf of a client, i.e. Airgun Depot, Hatsan, etc. Here is the full email signature that you would see if you received an email from any of my airgun email accounts:
Rick Eutsler
www.AirgunProShop.com (http://www.AirgunProShop.com) (NEW Airgun Pro-Shop Site!)
www.AirgunWeb.com (http://www.AirgunWeb.com)
www.youtube.com/airgunweb (http://www.youtube.com/airgunweb)
www.facebook.com/airgunreviews (http://www.facebook.com/airgunreviews)
Phone: 928-846-3100
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Our Words Have Power - “Take Care…” - Respectfully, no Thank you.
“Care,” as used in that phrase, is a noun which is defined as: 1. a state of mind in which one is troubled; worry, anxiety, or concern; 2. a cause or object of worry, anxiety, concern, etc. While we often say “Take Care” as a means of courtesy, we are actually imparting (and receiving) distress. Rather, let’s wish each other well; So please, have a Great Day!
Here's my reasoning and why I've made a stand on this point. Every day I speak to people, whether in a professional capacity, ministerial capacity, or personal capacity, and I'm amazed at how many are ruled by the great "what if." What if this, what if that, what will happen if this, what will happen if that. The truth is that nothing has happened yet. I watch people being completely befuddled and paralyzed by what "may" happen. I used to be the same way until one day a minister corrected me for saying "take care." I realized, after I got over thinking "who the heck does he think he is..." that he may actually have a point. So I stopped saying it. And I stopped accepting it. You know what? I stopped being ruled by the great "what if." I stopped being paralyzed by what might happen and started trusting that no matter what happened, Jesus was big enough to handle it. And if He's big enough and I belong to Him, then what do I have to be afraid of?
So, that's why I have that bit of text at the bottom of all my emails. It's not meant as a slight, or to put anyone down, but rather to maybe let people think, if only for a moment, that maybe there might actually be something to it to consider.
It's my perspective and I certainly would never purposefully "shun" anyone that had a contrary perspective. If you have the impression that I've blocked you and been non-responsive I apologize, as that is not at all my intention. It's very possible that I simply let too much get piled on my plate and just messed up and forgot. It's happened in the past, and I guarantee that it will happen in the future. If I want grace and mercy, I have to extend grace and mercy to others. I hope that you all will do the same for me.
I know this forum is supposed to be about airguns and I'll let everyone get back to it. But, since there seemed to be quite a conversation about the topic, I figured maybe you all may want to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak.
Hope you all are well.
Cheers
Rick
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Hmmmm..
I'd like to see that Statement about Take Care for myself..
But Hatsan won't getting any recommendations or purchases from me
Take Care is an old Irish Protestant wishing of wellness shortened from Take care for your soul and The Lord will watch out for you....
being half Irish Protestant and Half Brazilian Catholic, I would feel awkward promoting a company who's US National Representative is openly professing to be "Anti" half my personal heritage...
That's funny... Being Armenian I'm not sure if I could purchase a Turkish gun... I've had Turkish friends before but I dunno, it's tough stuff :) Tough time for it if you look at the pcp market right now.
I don't understand what you mean by "tough time for it if you look at PCP market right now"? Do you mean sales are slow? Or, its a bad time to buy a PCP?
Thanks,
agw.
What I mean is that right now Hatsan is killing everybody at this price point (and from like 500 to 800) by a long shot. I'd really like to get into PCP's but I don't want to buy something inferior, although it's hard for me to pull the trigger on something made in Turkey due to my own nationalism. All I can look at is the marauder in wood, but it's still not an AT44... Disco takes too much work to hopefully turn it into a marauder, and nobody else has the important features.
So the tough time is really for me. Maybe if I wait until next season there will be something better, in another 3 months it will be all white around here anyways.
@airgunweb - Some people use 'take care' in a sarcastic and snooty way and it's a much more ambiguous way to say good bye. Some people who are perturbed at you or on the fence will just assume its negative, or maybe where they are from or in their circle of friends its used in a sarcastic way. People who are thankful or who know you better will take it at face value.
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Decided to make my comments in private...
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I'd really like to get into PCP's but I don't want to buy something inferior, although it's hard for me to pull the trigger on something made in Turkey due to my own nationalism.
Easy solution.... recognise that you may be nationalistic, but corporations definitely are not. That company you buy from may say "Assembled in USA", or even "Made in USA" - and all it's actual profits may be in a bank in the Caymens or Switzerland. Corporations in this global economy have no nationality. Just buy what you like best.
The way I see it, nationalism is a cognitive flaw anyway. It makes us have judgment lapses, in my opinion. The country, or state, or county or city you were born in is just a line on a map - nothing more. Nations (including the one you were accidentally born in) are as good as what they do and as bad as what they do. Based on that, I don't see any problem with buying a Hatsan over a Marauder if you like one.
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Hmmmm..
I'd like to see that Statement about Take Care for myself..
But Hatsan won't getting any recommendations or purchases from me
Take Care is an old Irish Protestant wishing of wellness shortened from Take care for your soul and The Lord will watch out for you....
being half Irish Protestant and Half Brazilian Catholic, I would feel awkward promoting a company who's US National Representative is openly professing to be "Anti" half my personal heritage...
That's funny... Being Armenian I'm not sure if I could purchase a Turkish gun... I've had Turkish friends before but I dunno, it's tough stuff :) Tough time for it if you look at the pcp market right now.
I don't understand what you mean by "tough time for it if you look at PCP market right now"? Do you mean sales are slow? Or, its a bad time to buy a PCP?
Thanks,
agw.
What I mean is that right now Hatsan is killing everybody at this price point (and from like 500 to 800) by a long shot. I'd really like to get into PCP's but I don't want to buy something inferior, although it's hard for me to pull the trigger on something made in Turkey due to my own nationalism. All I can look at is the marauder in wood, but it's still not an AT44... Disco takes too much work to hopefully turn it into a marauder, and nobody else has the important features.
So the tough time is really for me. Maybe if I wait until next season there will be something better, in another 3 months it will be all white around here anyways.
@airgunweb - Some people use 'take care' in a sarcastic and snooty way and it's a much more ambiguous way to say good bye. Some people who are perturbed at you or on the fence will just assume its negative, or maybe where they are from or in their circle of friends its used in a sarcastic way. People who are thankful or who know you better will take it at face value.
Thanks for the reply. I think I understand? I have a friend that is Albanian and he too feels the way you do, I guess there's still an on-going battle of some sorts between Turkey and your Country of origin, or is it from past quarrels?
The only "con" I could think of about owning a Hatsan, is the fact that it is made in Turkey and because of that, parts may be hard to come by? Other than that, I feel what Hatsan is doing is quite phenomenal! Creating awesome air-guns at an affordable price! I have read numerous reviews on the Hatsan AT44 and BT65 and the average rating is 4+ stars, out of a possible 5-stars and we are talking hundreds and hundreds of reviews!
Also, those Sniper 125 models seem to be pretty awesome as well, especially that .25! Not sure the average review rating on those, but the videos and reviews I have watched/read, have all been great! I will be shooting both a PCP Hatsan this weekend and a break-barrel Hatsan, can't wait!
Thanks again for the reply,
agw.
EDIT: I understand that the spring powered version of the Sniper 125 has been doing very well, but not the Vortex. I also understand or have recently learned that the NP version of the Hatsan 125 Sniper models are also good-to-go.
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Hey AWG (Al),
I am retired, but I was self employed for the last 12 years of the labor force. So having more then one business is crazy busy. . You better just figure 7 days a week and 12-14 .hours a day
First I don't know if people realize how many hats Rick wears? He has his reviews, his sales, his American Air Gunner involment, as well as a service type manager for Hatsan and he has a family who need to see him also. Rick answers every comment on his reviews. ( Not something Ted does, it is very time consuming.)
Speaking of family,
He called me from a fast food drive up window, answered all my questions, about buying a Refurb rifle from Hatsan site. Then asked if he could help with any other questions.
I mentioned I had a gun at the warranty place in Arkansas and I had not heard from them, but to be fair that had it for 2 working weeks. Then I mentioned that I had filled out request and a couple emails to Hatsan to ask for the red Truglo filiment that had disappeared from my AT44 front open sights.
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▪▪▪▪Rick told me that management at Hatsan wanted to know if and what they had for gaps in their service. ººººº I ordered the BT65 Elite from Rick. Sunday.
Tuesday Hatsan contacted me and told me they had installed a new trigger in my Galation, they were not sure why my air cylinder nut was getting hammered. They said it is shooting great so go ahead and use it "PLUS THEY GAVE ME AND EXTRA $169 air cylinder and sent me a complete new front site assy. for my AT44.
I told a Hatsan service guy that I bought a refurb rifle from Hatsan sales and I hoped my new BT would come soon also.
Hatsan service guy emailed me back and said they were shipping both guns together.ººº This is all because Rick went to bat for me with Hatsan service!!ººº
Rick, was GOOD TO HIS WORD. Rick and Hatsan FedEx-ed
My guns on Tuesday and I had them 3 days later on Friday.
So Rick, in 6 days, solved all my warranty and gun sale needs. I consider that great service. Simular to P.A. except more personal.
I had a couple issues with the refurb gun, ◇◆◇◆◇◆ Rick offered advise and told me if it was not right by Monday, he would get my new refurb shipped to him, no freight fee and he would fix it, .How can I beat that.?●○●○●○Rick emailed me again Sunday night and asked me if I was satisfied with the refurb and if all my concerns had been met.
¤¤¤ Who does that on a Sunday evening? ¤¤¤
Turns out my problems were because my barrel was very snug . It didn't want to fire every time. Just needed a little lead massage. That and the bolt action was so tight I had trouble getting it to slot all the way open. Just something I as a rookie was not aware of. The BT action is much heavier then the AT and the Galation. A little lube and and working the action smoothed it out a lot. I had managed to get an extra pellet in the barrel, pushed them back out from muzzle and a piece of pellet fell down in the clip advancing mechanism. Let's say I learned a couple of basic air gun maintenance things.
The refurb BT65 Elite .25 was $486. The one I bought had, NEW BARREL, NEW BREECH, NEW TRIGGER, NEW CLIPS (4 Total ) NEW SLING☆☆Hatsan throw in a♡♡ free tin of pellets ($15) and a free clip.($14) ♥♥ love free stuff.
Hatsan warranty on refurbs is 90 days but my gun was new
Except the hard shell rifle case and the synthetic stock.
I saved $200 plus about $30 in freebies, that seemed like a lot of gun and extras to me.
Rick has treated me with 110% customer satisfaction.
BTW, I own two other Hatsan PCPs both with air strippers and they bark. The AT in .22 louder then Galation in .25. However, even with air stripper the BT65 Elite is way way beyond bark. It is dig out the ear protectors loud. Louder them my Remington , 22 PB.
Enjoy your shooting,
Gator
Thanks Gatorproof,
like I said before, I was in a mood that night and being an impatient cry-baby. I really did think that I may have accidentally closed an e-mail to Rick with "Take care" and that it may have been the reason I had not heard from him in what I think was close to 1.5-days or 2-days.
I realize that I was wrong and have sent Rick an e-mail apologizing for the misunderstanding and for even commenting about it.
I am happy that you got such great deals and free stuff, that's very awesome, especially the extra reservoir!
Good for you! :D
Respectfully,
agw.
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Rick Eusler is a good guy and will do the most he can do to support a Hatsan customer. He wants to get them going here in the States. He's done his very best for the last couple years. Understand that HATSAN is really new to the USA. Only a couple years. The start up hasn't been the best. I can't say that you should spend your money there, right now. But I wanna see them succeed.
They (Hatsan) have got to come up in design/quality consistence, and parts, for many of us to accept them as a top choice. Our worldwide brethren are quite aware of what "we Americans" are now finding out with their air rifles.
I too want to see Hatsan succeed, as I like that they do try to keep pricing reasonable and offer a great selection of air-guns!
I honestly had no clue that they were that new to the States and that there have been some quality control issues with their product though, as most of what I hear, see, watch or read about the Hatsan line-up tends to always be on the positive side.
I did hear some negatives from a well known Air-Gun Smith, Tuner, Dealer about the Vortex models the other day though.
I will have a chance to check out both a break-barrel and PCP Hatsan this weekend.
If they do in fact need to bring the standards of their quality up more, let's hope that they do so and keep the pricing reasonable at the same time!
Respectfully,
agw.
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AGW, (Al)
Hey buddy, I have owned the Hatsan 125 Mod Thumb Hole Nitro Piston for about 8 months.
Of couse I got a great deal on it, I am a cheap bargin hunter. Learned from Mom.
If I am correct, P.A. is the only outlet for the 125 Mod ( guessing it means modified) P.A. sends the spring they removed to add the NP.
I love that big guy, it is probably the least flawed of my 4 Hatsan. .25 and a bear for an old guy to cock.
But he has great bluing, really consistant power, and shoots where pointed if I do my part. Hits tree targets at 85 yards all day long. Those are off the front deck when its not raining. I shoot him with my elbow on my knee.
I grab that gun at least 5 times a week, walk out on the back deck, in a rain protected area, where he has his own shooting stand, screwed to deck rail and fire 5 to 20 shoots.
I love it because it is so simple. cock, insert pellet, close, aim and fire. Genuine plinker but capable of much more.
No getting out bench rests, airing up, taking chair out to shooting tables, ect.
I call him my "CLUB". I have added 2-3lbs. Pimping him out. He all most has more money sitting on his scope mount area then he cost. Lol I think P.A. has a sale now so about $240. Worth every penny or at least my is to me.
Be Well,
Gator
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AGW, (Al)
Hey buddy, I have owned the Hatsan 125 Mod Thumb Hole Nitro Piston for about 8 months.
Of couse I got a great deal on it, I am a cheap bargin hunter. Learned from Mom.
If I am correct, P.A. is the only outlet for the 125 Mod ( guessing it means modified) P.A. sends the spring they removed to add the NP.
I love that big guy, it is probably the least flawed of my 4 Hatsan. .25 and a bear for an old guy to cock.
But he has great bluing, really consistant power, and shoots where pointed if I do my part. Hits tree targets at 85 yards all day long. Those are off the front deck when its not raining. I shoot him with my elbow on my knee.
I grab that gun at least 5 times a week, walk out on the back deck, in a rain protected area, where he has his own shooting stand, screwed to deck rail and fire 5 to 20 shoots.
I love it because it is so simple. cock, insert pellet, close, aim and fire. Genuine plinker but capable of much more.
No getting out bench rests, airing up, taking chair out to shooting tables, ect.
I call him my "CLUB". I have added 2-3lbs. Pimping him out. He all most has more money sitting on his scope mount area then he cost. Lol I think P.A. has a sale now so about $240. Worth every penny or at least my is to me.
Be Well,
Gator
So, it is a .25?
Very nice accessories in my humble opinion! It does not look tacky at all! All functional items!
Thanks for sharing!
I was 1mm away from getting the Hatsan 125 Sniper .25 until I leaned more in this thread.
Rick's review of the .25 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRr_2zPPsw0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRr_2zPPsw0)), and the reviews seen in these videos had me convinced that the Hatsan 125 Sniper had to be the best break-barrel for the money...hands-down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRr_2zPPsw0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRr_2zPPsw0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9SHD2Tp2Ck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9SHD2Tp2Ck)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOo6Og6WIFM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOo6Og6WIFM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRcdYbjxQLw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRcdYbjxQLw)
Pretty sure that these Hatsan Snipers 125 Air-Rifles are just a little bit big for me. If I did get one, it would be with the NP, as I love the idea of being able to have the air-gun pre-cocked and ready to shoot!
Thanks,
agw.
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I was just blown away by this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_vkIyfj6mA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_vkIyfj6mA)
Awesome power and accuracy!
Very impressive and not bad looking, but for that kind of money, I want a repeater!
Thanks,
Al.
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In my dreams, I own the following from Citrus Air:
(Hope this goes straight to the image!:)
http://citrusairguns.com/uploads/3/2/1/2/3212584/3555946.jpg?328 (http://citrusairguns.com/uploads/3/2/1/2/3212584/3555946.jpg?328)
I cannot think of any other air-gun I would rather own than this one right now!
EXTREME POWER: CHECK!
EXTREME ACCURACY: CHECK!
QUALITY OF BUILD/MATERIALS: CHECK!
REPEATER: CHECK!
EXTERNAL POWER ADJUSTER: CHECK!
QUIET: CHECK!
HIGH OR DECENT SHOT-COUNT: CHECK!
ABILITY TO TAKE-DOWN SMALL, MEDIUM and SOME LARGE GAME: CHECK!
EASY ACCESSIBILITY TO INTERNALS/EASY TO TEAR-DOWN: CHECK!
MEAN LOOKS: CHECK!
Thanks,
Al.
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Yes buddy,
He is a .25. His favorite food is H&N FTT 19.1 24.5 fpe and average 750fps.
He will shoot 25.4g too but gets the exact same 24.4fpe. The heavier pellet is more expensive and shows me no advantage. However I shoot the 25.4g AA & JSBs in the Galation and I guess for the BT65.
The pellets Hatsan uses in their .25 are 19.1g made by H&N. The sealing tape on the tins match and the skew are 1 # off.
Mine with the junk weighs about 12.5 lbs same as my Galation which is pimped too, of course
Happy gun testing,
Gator
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Yes buddy,
He is a .25. His favorite food is H&N FTT 19.1 24.5 fpe and average 750fps.
He will shoot 25.4g too but gets the exact same 24.4fpe. The heavier pellet is more expensive and shows me no advantage. However I shoot the 25.4g AA & JSBs in the Galation and I guess for the BT65.
The pellets Hatsan uses in their .25 are 19.1g made by H&N. The sealing tape on the tins match and the skew are 1 # off.
Mine with the junk weighs about 12.5 lbs same as my Galation which is pimped too, of course
Happy gun testing,
Gator
Thanks for all of the information, sharing of your arsenal and advice Gatorproof! :D
Would like to see and read more about your Galatian too...please.
Respectfully,
Al.
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Questions for those that own the HATSAN AT44 TACTICAL:
Is it easy/fast process to remove the extendable butt stock?
Also, how long is the AT44 TACTICAL when the extendable butt stock is removed?
Wondering if it would fit in a ruck sack, backpack or carry bag when the extendable butt stock is removed?
Seems like it could be like a "Take-down"?
Thanks,
Al.
(agw)
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Questions for those that own the HATSAN AT44 TACTICAL:
Is it easy/fast process to remove the extendable butt stock?
Also, how long is the AT44 TACTICAL when the extendable butt stock is removed?
Wondering if it would fit in a ruck sack, backpack or carry bag when the extendable butt stock is removed?
Seems like it could be like a "Take-down"?
Thanks,
Al.
(agw)
just a push of a button...
Also The Hatsan has all of those points? except the power adjuster, that you can have if you just drill two holes, but I wont do that cause once I tune it it stays that way.
EXTREME POWER: CHECK!
EXTREME ACCURACY: CHECK!
QUALITY OF BUILD/MATERIALS: CHECK!
REPEATER: CHECK!
EXTERNAL POWER ADJUSTER: CHECK!
QUIET: CHECK!
HIGH OR DECENT SHOT-COUNT: CHECK!
ABILITY TO TAKE-DOWN SMALL, MEDIUM and SOME LARGE GAME: CHECK!
EASY ACCESSIBILITY TO INTERNALS/EASY TO TEAR-DOWN: CHECK!
MEAN LOOKS: CHECK!
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Questions for those that own the HATSAN AT44 TACTICAL:
Is it easy/fast process to remove the extendable butt stock?
Also, how long is the AT44 TACTICAL when the extendable butt stock is removed?
Wondering if it would fit in a ruck sack, backpack or carry bag when the extendable butt stock is removed?
Seems like it could be like a "Take-down"?
Thanks,
Al.
(agw)
Hey Al,
It appears to look just like the Supercharger 25. I had one for a week but had to return.
It looks cool. With that said """"my personal opinion"""" I would not care to live with it for like,... years.
But it is a great seller for Hatsan. Rick reviewed it and told Hatsan to make more and more, so he likes his.
Be Well,
Gator
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The AT44 Tact is awesome. I have a long so it would not fit in a rucksack with the buttstock removed. It is a big gun.With the tactical stock you only have to modify the hammer hole at the back of the stock because if you remove the front clip underneath the stock, the hole is almost already lined up with the slot that accepts the extra clip. At least on mine it is. I bought an at44 s10 long and replaced the stock with the tactical stock from Hatsan USA. And so far I cannot imagine any PCP being any better. I search all the time and cannot find anything that matches the look,power, and accuracy of this rifle.
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Gatorproof. I assume you are saying the stocks of those two guns are the same. If so,that is correct. If you are saying the guns are similar you couldn't be further from the truth.
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Gatorproof. I assume you are saying the stocks of those two guns are the same. If so,that is correct. If you are saying the guns are similar you couldn't be further from the truth.
Figured it out.
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Sorry guys,
I was not very clear. So lets try again. It appeared to me ººººthe push the button release stock of the 25 SC and the AT44 Tactºººº are the same.
The two guns are night and day.
BTW, I saw the AT44 Tact was on sale at Air Gun Depot for about $460 if I remember correctly, but remember my old mind is 66 years old And failing, lol.
Be Well,
Gator