GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Tpatner412 on July 11, 2014, 10:54:49 PM
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Gun looks slick. Wasn't too loud and seemed to shoot pretty decent. New marauder was out there as well in a tactical stock. I am sure others will post pics
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac77/Tpatner412/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-01/8DA51734-BB6A-46E1-8F4B-48F983FA257C_zpswyvit4ll.jpg)
Tyler
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Not into the Tacticool look.... but I'll be interested in hearing how it shoots....
Bob
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Probably just another let done like the rogue. Maybe this time they won't claim numbers they can't produce.
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Define too loud? Also it shot pretty decent? Not great? I mean I'm interested but those words are safe words in my mind..
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Tell you exactly what that is....that's Crosman going after the 'FX' crowd.
Good grief, that looks like a fat Bobcat
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/jakeofaustin/FXBobcat_zps341fa0e8.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/jakeofaustin/media/FXBobcat_zps341fa0e8.jpg.html)
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Tell you exactly what that is....that's Crosman going after the 'FX' crowd.
Good grief, that looks like a fat Bobcat
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/jakeofaustin/FXBobcat_zps341fa0e8.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/jakeofaustin/media/FXBobcat_zps341fa0e8.jpg.html)
Exactly what I thought it was when I first opened the thread LOL
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Looks good. Saw it on FB. I hope someone posts pics of the Syn-Rod in tactical dress.
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Is there any speculation as to the asking price?
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Is there any speculation as to the asking price?
X2
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Wish they would build the M-Rod in .30 or .357. Better yet, offer the Disco in .25. All they gotta do is increase the fill pressure to 2500, and slap a .25 barrel and heavier bammer spring on there. Probably pay an extra $50 for it, and it would sell soooo fast. I imagine they don't because it would hurt sales of the .177 and .22...
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Wish they would build the M-Rod in .30 or .357. Better yet, offer the Disco in .25. All they gotta do is increase the fill pressure to 2500, and slap a .25 barrel and heavier bammer spring on there. Probably pay an extra $50 for it, and it would sell soooo fast. I imagine they don't because it would hurt sales of the .177 and .22...
Doesn't the Mrod struggle to push a "lighter" weight King (25.4gr) 900+ fps without sufficing with a shot count of 10 or less ???... (meaning something huge has to change with the platform to be able to push 50+ gr's at a usable speed :o) for .30 and .357. Better off making an entirely new platform.
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I am sure that they could figure out a way to make it worthwhile.
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Tell you exactly what that is....that's Crosman going after the 'FX' crowd.
Good grief, that looks like a fat Bobcat
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/jakeofaustin/FXBobcat_zps341fa0e8.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/jakeofaustin/media/FXBobcat_zps341fa0e8.jpg.html)
I think Crosman looks much better, at least it has the action in rear. What turns me off is that shroud/muzzle, looks like it was made from lego bricks. Let's wait for the specs, if it can do 5 or more shots at 200 fpe while being MOA accurate at 100M they sure have a winner there.
BTW, it's a magazine fed gun isn't it?
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Not in to BP guns but happy to see it wearing a side lever.
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Tell you exactly what that is....that's Crosman going after the 'FX' crowd.
Good grief, that looks like a fat Bobcat
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/jakeofaustin/FXBobcat_zps341fa0e8.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/jakeofaustin/media/FXBobcat_zps341fa0e8.jpg.html)
I think Crosman looks much better, at least it has the action in rear. What turns me off is that shroud/muzzle, looks like it was made from lego bricks. Let's wait for the specs, if it can do 5 or more shots at 200 fpe while being MOA accurate at 100M they sure have a winner there.
BTW, it's a magazine fed gun isn't it?
According to the guy that was shooting it, it will do five high power shots, 190 FPE, and five low power shots, (who needs five low power shots?), before refilling.
Seemed kind of loud to me, but this was the first time I ever heard a big bore being fired.
Definitely seemed to hit hard.
Moa at 100 yards would be sweet but I would have to see it to believe it.
Jim - jhm757
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Wow nice to see them breaking back into big bore, So that confirms what Rick said to me.....2015 Crossman, Hatsan and others coming out with.30 or 357.should be a interesting shot show in 2015
As always, I'm going to wait a year till all the bugs are worked out..'.
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Here is another pic with Fred Eichler having a go at it. Apparently, Ian Hartford is being sent one for an African Safari.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/10488091_10152365876158778_5271476201962967301_n_zps46058a6e.jpg)
I know what it is---it's a Zombie Apocalypse Air Ray Gun. The Z.A.A.R.G.
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I'm sorry but that thing is just flat out ugly. I seriously hope they trim that behemoth down
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Here is another pic with Fred Eichler having a go at it. Apparently, Ian Hartford is being sent one for an African Safari.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/10488091_10152365876158778_5271476201962967301_n_zps46058a6e.jpg)
I know what it is---it's a Zombie Apocalypse Air Ray Gun. The Z.A.A.R.G.
We have expected price point? How loud is it? Release date? I kind of want to get my hands on one of these.
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YUCH the FX styling department is not the ones to emulate
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I actually kinda like it, I know I could make her look much better if I had her in my hands ;D
glad to see they did go full mechanical after the Huge Rogue debacle.
Now as long as they stay away from the silly Hyper advertising and let the gun speak for itself once it comes out they might have something
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Here is another pic with Fred Eichler having a go at it. Apparently, Ian Hartford is being sent one for an African Safari.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/10488091_10152365876158778_5271476201962967301_n_zps46058a6e.jpg)
I know what it is---it's a Zombie Apocalypse Air Ray Gun. The Z.A.A.R.G.
I'm sorry, I am ussually pretty lenient when it comes to a guns looks, I mean I never thought the bobcat looked THAT bad and I happen to find the Sumatra's to be handsome looking guns but this one just takes the cake :o. I could not honestly say where I have ever seen a gun that looks remotely as ugly as it lol I think they either got their inspiration from the local laser-tag arena or better yet from that new Lego Star Wars video game ;D LOL
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LOL Caleb, you crack me up ;)
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Thing looks like it weighs a ton.
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YUCH the FX styling department is not the ones to emulate
FX meets LAZ0R gun :P
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Thing looks like it weighs a ton.
There was no word on what exactly it would weigh, it was said it will be much lighter than the rogue.
Also it was said this is a prototype and the actual rifle when released may not have this same stock.
Jim - jhm757
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Thing looks like it weighs a ton.
There was no word on what exactly it would weigh, it was said it will be much lighter than the rogue.
Also it was said this is a prototype and the actual rifle when released may not have this same stock.
Jim - jhm757
Hopefully it doesn't! Also, does the Herb Philipson's out in Rome have a Discovery or a Benjamin Pump? It's listed in our system here and I didn't get a chance to check stock at other stores.
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"LASER TAG!" good grief that's funny...and dead on accurate!
Seriously, this had better be the same as Chevy putting fake body panels on an upcoming model car so no one really sees the final product until being released.
I may be wrong here but wouldn't a .30 caliber have more appeal to the masses?
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Personally I think .357 is the way to go for a big-bore.... .30 cal is kind of in between a varmint caliber and a deer/hog gun, at typical (3000 psi) airgun power levels.... it's more of a predator gun (coyotes, bobcats, lynx, etc.).... Even a pretty stout .357 running 3000 psi with heavy bullets is only the power of a .38 special, and they aren't legal for deer hunting in many states.... I think Crosman got that caliber right, and I'm sure the fact that they co-operated with Nosler on bullet supply probably factors in too....
Bob
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Thing looks like it weighs a ton.
There was no word on what exactly it would weigh, it was said it will be much lighter than the rogue.
Also it was said this is a prototype and the actual rifle when released may not have this same stock.
Jim - jhm757
Hopefully it doesn't! Also, does the Herb Philipson's out in Rome have a Discovery or a Benjamin Pump? It's listed in our system here and I didn't get a chance to check stock at other stores.
No I don't believe they sell the Discovery or pumps, all I have ever seen there is break barrels.
Jim - jhm757
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Thing looks like it weighs a ton.
There was no word on what exactly it would weigh, it was said it will be much lighter than the rogue.
Also it was said this is a prototype and the actual rifle when released may not have this same stock.
Jim - jhm757
Hopefully it doesn't! Also, does the Herb Philipson's out in Rome have a Discovery or a Benjamin Pump? It's listed in our system here and I didn't get a chance to check stock at other stores.
No I don't believe they sell the Discovery or pumps, all I have ever seen there is break barrels.
Jim - jhm757
Sounds like the same here. If you want a NP2 keep an eye out we're getting them in stock soon.
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Was it a fully mechanical gun ? If so is it using a Prod trigger ? .357 is good caliber due to the large assortment of ammo available. Personally I would have liked to see it in .308
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Wish they would build the M-Rod in .30 or .357. Better yet, offer the Disco in .25. All they gotta do is increase the fill pressure to 2500, and slap a .25 barrel and heavier bammer spring on there. Probably pay an extra $50 for it, and it would sell soooo fast. I imagine they don't because it would hurt sales of the .177 and .22...
Doesn't the Mrod struggle to push a "lighter" weight King (25.4gr) 900+ fps without sufficing with a shot count of 10 or less ???... (meaning something huge has to change with the platform to be able to push 50+ gr's at a usable speed :o) for .30 and .357. Better off making an entirely new platform.
Yes the Mrod does struggle with the .25 out of the box. As myself and other modders have learned, opening up the ports greatly increases power and efficency. If Crosman would open the valve up And increase the air tank size, it should be a fine platform at least for a .30.
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That is, in my opinion, ugly. I could have sworn I've seen it before, then it dawned on me "The old Planet of the Apes movies". I'm including a picture I found online that the web site says is a rifle from the first Planet of the Apes movie ("get your paws off me, you "dang" dirty ape").
Having enjoyed my Hatsan rifles a lot, I sometimes get the feeling Crosman designers sit down and try to figure out how to take a Hatsan design and make it as ugly as possible. For example, let's take the BT-65 and ugly it up. Viola, new synthetic Marauder. Let's take the AT-44 TACT and ugly it up. Viola, new prototype .357. Now if Hatsan would make a .357 I'd be on the waiting list.
Sorry, didn't mean to change topic. I think it's ""dang" DIRTY APE" ugly.
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Fugley to You Fugley to Me; But the Kid's love that $#!T. Crosman needs Kid's to buy the "0" QC stuff They Sell at 100% Profit and Dreaming about that Fugley .357 "Stoked Man".....New World out there Mannnnn
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Here is another pic with Fred Eichler having a go at it. Apparently, Ian Hartford is being sent one for an African Safari.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag124/josephb1969/10488091_10152365876158778_5271476201962967301_n_zps46058a6e.jpg)
I know what it is---it's a Zombie Apocalypse Air Ray Gun. The Z.A.A.R.G.
1st off I think people throwing pictures of the FX Bobcat up in this thread is confusing people. Had me disappointed as I thought it was a closeup of the new Crosman till I saw it on a bigger screen.
That .357 proto type looks sweet. It may not appeal to the wood stock guys, but I love it. Looks more like something H & K would build. I want to see more, lol. That is the cleanest looking design. I want to shoot one Now!
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Fugley to You Fugley to Me; But the Kid's love that $#!T. Crosman needs Kid's to buy the "0" QC stuff They Sell at 100% Profit and Dreaming about that Fugley .357 "Stoked Man".....New World out there Mannnnn
This 49 year old kid wants to play with that toy now!
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For example, let's take the BT-65 and ugly it up. Viola, new synthetic Marauder.
Let's take the AT-44 TACT and ugly it up. Viola, new prototype .357. Now if Hatsan would make a .357 I'd be on the waiting list.
Below are the 2 guns you mentioned. Did you just pull these 2 out of the air cause your a Hatsan fan. I be dang if I can see any resemblance beyond that they are all 4 black airguns. To say Crosman took anything from them is just a feeble attempt at Crosman bashing. Crosman has enough reasons for bashing without just making stuff up. BTW, I like tactical, but keep it somewhat clean and sleek. These Hatsan's are anything but clean and sleek.
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Looking at it...this thing is ugly. Though when you search for concept cars for the upcoming tests, many companies will put extra &^^& on them so you can't see what the actual end product could look like. Hopefully this is what crosman is doing.
But on the bright side, there is a ton of surface area for bludgeoning your prey to death.
Post I made on another forum about the rifle. Looking at it more, seems like they couldn't figure out a design so they just slapped some left over crud on it.
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I think the biggest downfall will be if people can't tinker, work on or mod it easily.
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Guys, you wont believe it, I found their top secret design inspiration, after a thorough and time consuming google search of the two obscure keywords LEGO BULLPUP I came up with some very familiar images:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/18/article-2264592-1704489A000005DC-766_634x439.jpg)
(http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/13860/1232295094m_SPLASH.jpg)
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/HXDhBHre53o/0.jpg)
Now call me crazy but suddenly I am envisioning crosman marketing these new guns in kit form, along with those nifty color coded instructions so you can assemble them brick by brick.....err..... part by part ;) ;D ;D
LOL sorry crosman, couldn't resist ;)
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Here is the info I was able to gather
FPE should be around 190 for 5 shots.
Noise was similar to the Rogue. Quiet for a big bore
Yes, it is magazine fed with side lever action.
Gun is supposed to be modular, which I interpreted to mean calibers could be changed.
Weight scopes was said to be roughly 9lbs
Barrels are Green Mountain
Triggers on the prototype was said to be 2lbs or so. I imagine adjustable though
Think that is everything. No estimated date yet, which is a good thing. Let them take their time and get this one right. I'm sure we will have more concrete info when SHOT show rolls around. As for price, my guess would be between $900-$1000 which would make it very competitive in the multi shot big bore market right now. Knowing where the barrels are coming from and the fact that Crosman has always had outstanding customer service, there is a lot to look forward here. While a little spacey looking, I can still dig it.
Manny, this should be right up your alley!!
Tyler
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Tyler, as I mentioned I hope it's a good gun, the looks could be easily improved with a home DIY.
a couple of things jump at me, it seems to still have the smallish Crosman air tube and the claim of 5 Shots at 190 FPE seems a bit strange, and the 9# scoped if it's a beefed up action/barrel for extra power seems a bit low, those 2 claims just don't go together.
as I mentioned lets Hope Crosman stops the trend that they have to Hyper inflate the new guns they put out and lests see what they really have.
I'm assuming they are using the old Rogue magazines and that is a good thing so longer cast bullets can be used.
Good thinking commisioning an out of factory barrel
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C'mon shot show. I am really hoping to see it released.
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C'mon shot show. I am really hoping to see it released.
Released and announced are two very different things! My only request would be that the initial stated release time frame is met. If it takes a little longer because they are more realistic in that initial release date, that's okay by me.
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Any info on the new marauder?
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C'mon shot show. I am really hoping to see it released.
Released and announced are two very different things! My only request would be that the initial stated release time frame is met. If it takes a little longer because they are more realistic in that initial release date, that's okay by me.
True...I was just hoping that by the next show it will be released or have a release date.
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YUCH the FX styling department is not the ones to emulate
LOL
Take away the 3d printer and they are left with nothing. What are they hiding in that box anyway ???
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For example, let's take the BT-65 and ugly it up. Viola, new synthetic Marauder.
Let's take the AT-44 TACT and ugly it up. Viola, new prototype .357. Now if Hatsan would make a .357 I'd be on the waiting list.
Below are the 2 guns you mentioned. Did you just pull these 2 out of the air cause your a Hatsan fan. I be dang if I can see any resemblance beyond that they are all 4 black airguns. To say Crosman took anything from them is just a feeble attempt at Crosman bashing. Crosman has enough reasons for bashing without just making stuff up. BTW, I like tactical, but keep it somewhat clean and sleek. These Hatsan's are anything but clean and sleek.
No, I didn't pull anything out of anywhere, guess I see more similarities than just "black". I love the feel and design of my Nitro Venom. Curved lines and yet somewhat modern looking. I am a Hatsan and Crosman fan, all my air guns are one or the other and if you look at my posts concerning Crosman products you'll see I don't Crosman bash or bash any company.
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Here is the info I was able to gather
FPE should be around 190 for 5 shots.
Noise was similar to the Rogue. Quiet for a big bore
Yes, it is magazine fed with side lever action.
Gun is supposed to be modular, which I interpreted to mean calibers could be changed.
Weight scopes was said to be roughly 9lbs
Barrels are Green Mountain
Triggers on the prototype was said to be 2lbs or so. I imagine adjustable though
Think that is everything. No estimated date yet, which is a good thing. Let them take their time and get this one right. I'm sure we will have more concrete info when SHOT show rolls around. As for price, my guess would be between $900-$1000 which would make it very competitive in the multi shot big bore market right now. Knowing where the barrels are coming from and the fact that Crosman has always had outstanding customer service, there is a lot to look forward here. While a little spacey looking, I can still dig it.
Manny, this should be right up your alley!!
Tyler
They have all the components there to beat Evanix badly, let's hope they can pull it all together.
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Looks pretty cool, like out of Aliens...if you are into such a thing.
But not a classic gun look.
T
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Now I know why I like it. It looks like a VS weapon from Planetside 2. I wonder if it will come in a purple carbon fiber stock. I'll have to add a few pics later. I'm sure the designer was Vanu.
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Maybe things are for a reason. Not 10 minutes ago,I got off the phone with Darrin at AOA.
I offered to pay a full deposit for a SingSung Infinity. He was confused and repeated San Yang.
Finally,
He said no on a deposit. He went on to explain that AOA would happily stock the SingSung. However, he was told that SingSung is no longer going to supply AOA with their product.
So I woukd like a .357 Repeater in that price range. Now several of you have expressed that you are turned OFF by Crosmans new design.
Beauty has always been a personal taste. Me, I think the Marurader is a face only Momma could love. Now I think the Infinity is a sleek fine looking gun. I could live with this new Crosman .357 design.
I looked pretty hard at the new Bobcat. Now I love extra ammo clips. I have 8 for my AT44 and 7 for my Galation. FX seems to feel their clips are worth over $100 each???
So That is not a match for me.
So if I understood things, a salesperson from P.A. introduced the new .357 to GTA.?
Be Well,
Gator
So if the new Marurader .25 is $549, does like $799 sound like a price Crosman can sell enough of these .357s?
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Crosman timeframe between the 1st unveiling of a new gun to when they are actually on the shelves can run in excess of a year, that has been the norm the past few years.
if you can't get an infinity you can get a 7 shots repeter .357 in the Rainstorm at 900 bucks after 10% off at Pyramyd
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SO maybe this is diverting the topic a bit, maybe not ... But seriously, what do people do with a full-length Weaver rail on the top of the gun (such as is shown on the prototype) ?!? Mount a pistol scope waaaaay up in front? An inverted bipod to steady the gun on low overhanging limbs? I know I sound like a smart*** and I'm actually not 100% trying to be - I'm just curious. I can see a long rail underneath (Bipod, tactical light, sling mount, etc) and I can see them on the sides for a myriad of reasons and uses, but what the heck do you put in front of your scope on a full-length top rail?
THAT being said, a reliable, efficient, accurate, and mass-priced .357 repeater in the market would be a really cool thing, I've got NO problem keeping my fingers crossed on THIS one :)
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SO maybe this is diverting the topic a bit, maybe not ... But seriously, what do people do with a full-length Weaver rail on the top of the gun (such as is shown on the prototype) ?!? Mount a pistol scope waaaaay up in front? An inverted bipod to steady the gun on low overhanging limbs? I know I sound like a smart*** and I'm actually not 100% trying to be - I'm just curious. I can see a long rail underneath (Bipod, tactical light, sling mount, etc) and I can see them on the sides for a myriad of reasons and uses, but what the heck do you put in front of your scope on a full-length top rail?
THAT being said, a reliable, efficient, accurate, and mass-priced .357 repeater in the market would be a really cool thing, I've got NO problem keeping my fingers crossed on THIS one :)
Iron sights (maybe flip up), red dot sight mounted out further (both eyes open), scout scope….
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Crosman timeframe between the 1st unveiling of a new gun to when they are actually on the shelves can run in excess of a year, that has been the norm the past few years.
if you can't get an infinity you can get a 7 shots repeter .357 in the Rainstorm at 900 bucks after 10% off at Pyramyd
All current multishot .357s do only 120-130 fpe. IMO it would be worth waiting to have a 190fpe gun.
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That is if you want/need a 190 FPE .357
......and, if it's really a 190 FPE gun, Crosman is notorious for greatly inflating and making preproduction claims that aren't met when the actual guns hit the market ;)
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That is if you want/need a 190 FPE .357
......and, if it's really a 190 FPE gun, Crosman is notorious for greatly inflating and making preproduction claims that aren't met when the actual guns hit the market ;)
My preference is to have a gun that can shoot 880+fps to get a flat trajectory. Evanic can only do around 820fps with jsbs in stock form and if you feed it with bullets you are lucky to hit high 700fps. Even at 160 fpe that gun would be a considerable improvement over existing magazine fed .357s.
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That is if you want/need a 190 FPE .357
......and, if it's really a 190 FPE gun, Crosman is notorious for greatly inflating and making preproduction claims that aren't met when the actual guns hit the market ;)
My preference is to have a gun that can shoot 880+fps to get a flat trajectory. Evanic can only do around 820fps with jsbs in stock form I'm lucky to have a cand if you feed it with bullets you are lucky to hit high 700fps. Even at 160 fpe that gun would be a considerable improvement over existing magazine fed .357s.
You ought to get a little higher than 820 fps with JSBs. I have routinely chronied my .357 Rainstorm (stock unmodified) shooting 80 grain JSBs at 865 fps. (That is 134 FPE btw).
One interesting variable is the shot string, and number of usable shots. Is the Crosman gun getting 5 usable shots with a peak of 190 FPE? Or is it 5 shots with an average of 190 FPE? Is Crosman's 5-shots the per-fill usable shot limit? If so, then that places Crosman's performance more in the spectrum of the classic 4-to-5-shot-and-done big bore. Evanix and Shin Sung .357 are capable of more than 5 usable shots per fill (at least 40% higher than that). (By usable shots, I don't mean MOA at 100 yards - I mean roughly 50-60fps ES).
On the other hand, if Crosman has the same usable shot count as Evanix and Shin Sung, with a peak of 190 FPE - then it would be interesting. But I'm not seeing that yet. Could be interesting though. Now if they could only fix that hideous design.
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190 FPE with various bullet weights is as follows:
RB (67 gr.) = 1130 fps
Pellet (78 gr.) = 1047 fps
100 gr. = 925 fps
120 gr. = 844 fps
140 gr. = 782 fps
160 gr. = 731 fps
Since the FPE level of most PCPs increases with bullet weight, IF Crosman's 190 FPE claim is real, then it is likely with a 140-160 gr. bullet, so you can expect the velocities with the lighter bullets to be LESS than the numbers above.... To me, that means that taking into account a desire for a reasonably flat trajectory, the ideal bullet weight is going to be between 100-120 gr.... The only .357 ammo Crosman still lists is the 145 gr. Nosler (likely what they tested with to get their 190 FPE which works out to 768 fps).... It seems likely to me that this is a 50 yard gun at best....
Bob
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NOMADIC Pirate,
•◇•◇••Crosman timeframe between the 1st unveiling of a new gun to when they are actually on the shelves can run in excess of a year, that has been the norm the past few years.if you can't get an infinity you can get a 7 shots repeter .357 in the Rainstorm at 900 bucks after 10% off at Pyramyd◇◆◇◆◇◆◇◆
○●○●○●○●
Thanks for the tip, sounds worth the look.
Be Well,
One thing I have noticed, if a guy buys one Evanix then they seem to buy 4 or 5
Gator
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190 FPE with various bullet weights is as follows:
RB (67 gr.) = 1130 fps
Pellet (78 gr.) = 1047 fps
100 gr. = 925 fps
120 gr. = 844 fps
140 gr. = 782 fps
160 gr. = 731 fps
Since the FPE level of most PCPs increases with bullet weight, IF Crosman's 190 FPE claim is real, then it is likely with a 140-160 gr. bullet, so you can expect the velocities with the lighter bullets to be LESS than the numbers above.... To me, that means that taking into account a desire for a reasonably flat trajectory, the ideal bullet weight is going to be between 100-120 gr.... The only .357 ammo Crosman still lists is the 145 gr. Nosler (likely what they tested with to get their 190 FPE which works out to 768 fps).... It seems likely to me that this is a 50 yard gun at best....
Bob
looking At those numbers Bob I myself would go for the 100gr @ 925fps which would give me some great kill range! 100ftlb@ 65yards! with a pellet speed of 670fps
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Bob is absolutely correct.
Just as a reminder about past Crosman practices without going to the more recent NP2 preproduction claims.
Before the Rogue came out Crosman was claiming a 250 FPE gun for 4 shots with basically no fps chnge.
when the actual gun hit the market they had to change the specs to 190 FPE ( and that was achieved with the 190gr bullets at a dismal mid/upper 600fps ) and down to 3 shots with a spread that was worse than a decent tuned mechanical gun.
in the end, I'm not saying that this will be the same for the new gun, but certanly Crosman preproduction claims aren't something that you wanna take to the bank :) :)
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NOMADIC Pirate,
•◇•◇••Crosman timeframe between the 1st unveiling of a new gun to when they are actually on the shelves can run in excess of a year, that has been the norm the past few years.if you can't get an infinity you can get a 7 shots repeter .357 in the Rainstorm at 900 bucks after 10% off at Pyramyd◇◆◇◆◇◆◇◆
○●○●○●○●
Thanks for the tip, sounds worth the look.
Be Well,
One thing I have noticed, if a guy buys one Evanix then they seem to buy 4 or 5
Gator
I have two Evanix guns and neither met my expectations. I was able to make the .357 a decent one but I'm really not looking forward for another korean made disappointment.
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Too bad for you brother because there's a ton of estatic Evanix owners out there :)
here a link to the .357 MAX-ML video
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1405389691/Posted+a+short+video+on+the+Evanix+MAX-ML+Bullpup.. (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1405389691/Posted+a+short+video+on+the+Evanix+MAX-ML+Bullpup..)
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I think perhaps my "short" .357 cal Bob's Boattail might be just the ticket, at 109 gr.... that would be 190 FPE at 886 fps, and the predicted BC is 0.18, which would give a retained velocity of 850 fps (175 FPE) at 100 yards.... Even if the BC ends up "only" being 0.12 the velocity at 100 yards would be 832 fps and the energy 168 FPE....
Bob
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190 FPE with various bullet weights is as follows:
RB (67 gr.) = 1130 fps
Pellet (78 gr.) = 1047 fps
100 gr. = 925 fps
120 gr. = 844 fps
140 gr. = 782 fps
160 gr. = 731 fps
Since the FPE level of most PCPs increases with bullet weight, IF Crosman's 190 FPE claim is real, then it is likely with a 140-160 gr. bullet, so you can expect the velocities with the lighter bullets to be LESS than the numbers above.... To me, that means that taking into account a desire for a reasonably flat trajectory, the ideal bullet weight is going to be between 100-120 gr.... The only .357 ammo Crosman still lists is the 145 gr. Nosler (likely what they tested with to get their 190 FPE which works out to 768 fps).... It seems likely to me that this is a 50 yard gun at best....
Bob
The pellets or bullets ( I'm not sure what they were called, they looked more like bullets to me) that were being shot were 175 gr if I heard correctly, a Crosman product that they are not currently making, but still had some kicking around. And the guy said around 800 fps and 190 fpe. According to your numbers, 175 gr at 800 fps would come out to considerably more than 190 fpe, maybe I heard wrong and they were 125 gr at 800 fps and 190 fpe that seems to fit much better with your numbers.
I thought the guy said 175 gr but it seems I may have heard wrong.
Do you know what Crosman has sold in the past, 125 gr or 175 gr?
I know they were not the Nosler 145 gr cause I picked one up and looked at it, no ballistic tip, looked like a lead .38 pistol bullet.
Jim - jhm757
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I've never heard of a Crosman 175 gr. bullet, but they did have something lighter than the Nosler, no longer in their catalogue.... if it was 135 gr. @ 796 fps that is 190 FPE.... I found an old Pyramyd image of a 127 gr. flat nose and a 158 gr. round nose.... both listed as "Benjamin Persuit" bullets.... they also had a 95 gr. HP....
Bob
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So it is, I have lost my vision and my WiFi.
Be Well,
Gator
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Pics are still there....
Bob
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Picture is still there. And to be clear as you made a comment earlier about me working for PA and posting this for Crosman.....I posted this for the GTA as a member here, not as a PA employee and not having been asked by Crosman. Been a member for far longer than I have been working in this industry and will be one should I ever stop working in the industry.
Just wanted to clear the air on that.
Tyler
And on a side note, why would Crosman want that photo pulled? And what makes you think they could make me do such a thing?
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Easy Tyler,
I went through a thing a couple years ago with a"""" Tech company forcing an employee employed in the industry to pull some proto type photos""""". It happens☆★☆★☆★☆★, and since I have experienced this type of thing in the past it was perfectly logical to me. I just assumed most people knew that, my bad.
Turns out my wifi was losing signal quality. I live in the sticks and run all computer devices in the house from a 4g MiFi. 4 tablets, two desktops and sometimes a Ultra Book.
I wished we had real internet access. No hard feelings,
Be Well,
Gator
○●○●○●"So if I understood things, a salesperson from P.A. introduced the new .357 to GTA.?" ○●○●○●○ is this the sentence that offended you?
If so, sorry Tyler. I have actually talked to you on the phone and purchased from you,
I don't understand why this question would be inappropriate?
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No worries Gator, you did not offend, I just wanted to make sure the distinction was made. It is important to me and probably to PA as well that there is a difference. PA has their own account for that exact reason. I try to post as little as possible about business and I can see how it may have looked as if I was doing Crosman a solid because of industry ties. Makes sense to me as well, that is why I felt it needed to be addressed. Sorry if I came off a bit rash, that was not my intention.
Tyler
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Tyler,
In a earlier post I mentioned that since I could not find a SingSung, this Crosman might be just right.
I don't feel you were doing all this "solid thing".
I was happy to see it. I am glad you shared your hands on time with the GTA family.
If the Crosman is decent I will be a buyer. Also, since you did offer your services at P.A. and you see a SingSung Infinity come into inventory, I will be your first customer if you notify me. My email is in Profile.
By the same token please feel free to email any new information on big bore repeaters other then what you currently have in catalog.
Thank You,
Gator
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The only reason Tyler was the first to post pictures of the new Crosman Big Bore Prototype was because he got to a computer quicker than I did!!! :o
Jim - jhm757
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I think that looks pretty cool. I don't really understand some of the negative comments. I like a nice walnut stock too but can appreciate the futuristic look too. Different strokes for different folks. Two things are for certain but unrelated: Like many airguns it will only reach its full potential post tuning, and the usual group of Crosman haters will pronounce it a $)((# without having shot it or even seen one in real life. Hopefully actual users will post honest reviews.
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I think it would look cool with a more skeletal look to the barrel, say with the rail running the full length.
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Gun looks slick. Wasn't too loud and seemed to shoot pretty decent. New marauder was out there as well in a tactical stock. I am sure others will post pics
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac77/Tpatner412/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-01/8DA51734-BB6A-46E1-8F4B-48F983FA257C_zpswyvit4ll.jpg)
Tyler
Thats got to be the ugliest thing I ever laid eyes on! Looks like a waste of a good 4x4... why cant they just make something that looks normal and not look like it weighs 300 LB. I sure hope that Crosman didnt make the barrel for it!
I want sleek, lite weight and good wood, I have no use for a tactical look, just doesn't float my boat!
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not a big fan of bullpups, but I kinda like the way it looks 8)
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Thanks for posting the pictures and info Tyler. I personally look forward to finding out more as time goes on.
As a side note, I also hope that Crosman undersells rather than the opposite. The rouge was for sure a huge disappointment and the NP2 with the cracking plastic shroud and shoddy welding on the scope rail makes me cringe that it wasn’t caught before leaving the factory.
Having said all that, I would think it is challenging for a manufacture in this market to not get caught up in the hype while trying to compete with other brands. Just look at the price point they focus on. We are not talking high end market. I know I’m talking out both sides as I have had my rant or 10 about quality in the past.
In my opinion Crosman produces a good product and will make it right if a person knows to ask. Without really knowing, I'm thinking that 80% or more of their market is to people who just want to hit a tin can and are happy to do so. The Discovery and Marauder, (your Crosman air gun here)out of the box (most of the time) are accurate or can be tuned to be so. The exterior is usually rough which again explains price point.
I think that Crosman tries to be the everyman supplier of air guns (biggest market). They have fantastic customer service and really try to keep the customer happy at least that has been my experience.
I know this thread wasn’t really a Crosman beat down, yet I felt I needed to throw them some crumbs.
Dave
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The new tacticool marauder (https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10394826_10152365119458778_5101478348919618749_n.jpg?oh=e85cecc4482e1aa7802f1b88af27b1de&oe=544835BC&__gda__=1414208938_f3c70eef1e546bfb6d5405ec872e41b2)
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Nice shot group...now lets see the final product and lets hope it still shoots as well. I am interested. I hope that it can be tuned and/or modded. But was it shot at 25' per the target?
Joe
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If Crosman/Benjamin really wanted to make a big hit, they would scrap this idea and keep improving the Marauder. Lighten it up, better stock, Good Barrels on all calibers, a little bigger air reservoir and add a Regulator. Myself if I was them I would turn towards something in the way of a nice Bull Pup- light, accurate, quiet, plenty of shots with the regulator. Need to stay away from bigger is better as far as the gun frame itself and go up to at least a .30 cal. around $1000.00 +/-
I have a Disco that I have $1000 into and the only reason I dont have the perfect gun with it is, garbage .22 cal Crosman barrel. It will shoot, but not like it should. It's not a bull pup (yet) but it is regulated and modded to 3000 PSI fill.
William
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If Crosman/Benjamin really wanted to make a big hit, they would scrap this idea and keep improving the Marauder. Lighten it up, better stock, Good Barrels on all calibers, a little bigger air reservoir and add a Regulator. Myself if I was them I would turn towards something in the way of a nice Bull Pup- light, accurate, quiet, plenty of shots with the regulator. Need to stay away from bigger is better as far as the gun frame itself and go up to at least a .30 cal. around $1000.00 +/-
I have a Disco that I have $1000 into and the only reason I dont have the perfect gun with it is, garbage .22 cal Crosman barrel. It will shoot, but not like it should. It's not a bull pup (yet) but it is regulated and modded to 3000 PSI fill.
William
Hey William,
What valve are you using in your Disco?
Joe
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If Crosman/Benjamin really wanted to make a big hit, they would scrap this idea and keep improving the Marauder. Lighten it up, better stock, Good Barrels on all calibers, a little bigger air reservoir and add a Regulator. Myself if I was them I would turn towards something in the way of a nice Bull Pup- light, accurate, quiet, plenty of shots with the regulator. Need to stay away from bigger is better as far as the gun frame itself and go up to at least a .30 cal. around $1000.00 +/-
I have a Disco that I have $1000 into and the only reason I dont have the perfect gun with it is, garbage .22 cal Crosman barrel. It will shoot, but not like it should. It's not a bull pup (yet) but it is regulated and modded to 3000 PSI fill.
William
Hey William,
What valve are you using in your Disco?
Joe
Hey Joe,
I am only using the factory Valve, it is reemed out a little for more air flow. I think it does pretty good so far, I have it regulated at 1800 PSI and about 20 to 30 shots depending on what pellet I am using and how much I have my power adjuster cranked up. It has a double tube kit, spring guide, BNM breach with the TP sized a little bigger. I can shoot just about anything from 13 grain up to 25.4 grain JSB's with a few adjustments. It is pretty deadly out to 40 yards for sure, havent shot it much past 50 or so yards. The only thing I forgot to do was open up the Gauge Block hole for more air flow. Once I get the gauge block opened up I expect she will be a lot better. If you scroll through some of my posts you can see what I did to it.
I also have a Mrod and another Disco that is modded for 3000 PSI fill but mostly stock, I want to put a regulator it sometime soon!
William
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If Crosman/Benjamin really wanted to make a big hit, they would scrap this idea and keep improving the Marauder. Lighten it up, better stock, Good Barrels on all calibers, a little bigger air reservoir and add a Regulator. Myself if I was them I would turn towards something in the way of a nice Bull Pup- light, accurate, quiet, plenty of shots with the regulator. Need to stay away from bigger is better as far as the gun frame itself and go up to at least a .30 cal. around $1000.00 +/-
I have a Disco that I have $1000 into and the only reason I dont have the perfect gun with it is, garbage .22 cal Crosman barrel. It will shoot, but not like it should. It's not a bull pup (yet) but it is regulated and modded to 3000 PSI fill.
William
Hey William,
What valve are you using in your Disco?
Joe
Hey Joe,
I am only using the factory Valve, it is reemed out a little for more air flow. I think it does pretty good so far, I have it regulated at 1800 PSI and about 20 to 30 shots depending on what pellet I am using and how much I have my power adjuster cranked up. It has a double tube kit, spring guide, BNM breach with the TP sized a little bigger. I can shoot just about anything from 13 grain up to 25.4 grain JSB's with a few adjustments. It is pretty deadly out to 40 yards for sure, havent shot it much past 50 or so yards. The only thing I forgot to do was open up the Gauge Block hole for more air flow. Once I get the gauge block opened up I expect she will be a lot better. If you scroll through some of my posts you can see what I did to it.
I also have a Mrod and another Disco that is modded for 3000 PSI fill but mostly stock, I want to put a regulator it sometime soon!
William
I'm using a hawged out stock valve, myself. I don't have it regulated, but I did use the stock gauge block as a depinger, but it acts as a "poor mans" regulator. My shot count went up with it. I have it butted right up against my p-rod gauge block. I get 26 to 50 shots from 2000 to 1200. I have taken shots past 60 yards on p-dawgs with CPHP's with only 2.5 turns in on my pwr adj. I think the longest shot was 72 yards. I am very happy. I was thinking about double tubing it. I thought about a BNM, but I like the single load breech. For the way I shoot with it, I like it---I like to snipe from long distance and I can reload fast enough. I can shoot 14.3 grain all the way up to 40 grain (I shoot pellets and cast). I have some swaged pellets from johninthecamper and they do good. I like Mr. Hollowpoints very much. His 30 grains are just right for my Disco.
Joe
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The new tacticool marauder (https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10394826_10152365119458778_5101478348919618749_n.jpg?oh=e85cecc4482e1aa7802f1b88af27b1de&oe=544835BC&__gda__=1414208938_f3c70eef1e546bfb6d5405ec872e41b2)
Where is all the info on this pic? what gun is it? what was the distance and pellet for this group?
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Looks like a beautiful group,.....@ 8 yards.
Guess that was how Crosman checked those junk .25 pellets and pronounced them to be shooting just fine :(
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Looks like a beautiful group,.....@ 8 yards.
Guess that was how Crosman checked those junk .25 pellets and pronounced them to be shooting just fine :(
Manny you are too funny! I would love to go hunting with you, I bet it would be a blast! ;D
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The new tacticool marauder (https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10394826_10152365119458778_5101478348919618749_n.jpg?oh=e85cecc4482e1aa7802f1b88af27b1de&oe=544835BC&__gda__=1414208938_f3c70eef1e546bfb6d5405ec872e41b2)
Where is all the info on this pic? what gun is it? what was the distance and pellet for this group?
Baxter,
That's suppose to be the new tactical m-rod that Crosman has been playing with. You should trade one of your Hatsans for it---lol.
Joe
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The new tacticool marauder (https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10394826_10152365119458778_5101478348919618749_n.jpg?oh=e85cecc4482e1aa7802f1b88af27b1de&oe=544835BC&__gda__=1414208938_f3c70eef1e546bfb6d5405ec872e41b2)
Where is all the info on this pic? what gun is it? what was the distance and pellet for this group?
Baxter,
That's suppose to be the new tactical m-rod that Crosman has been playing with. You should trade one of your Hatsans for it---lol.
Joe
;D where is the rest of it? full pic please.....I think that I will wait and see what Hatsan respond with, from what I hear its a .357 and a bull pup in AT44 and BT65, but we just have to wait and see if Hatsan USA imports them....here is the BT65 Bull Pup
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At44-10 Bull Pup
http://kiev.all.biz/vintovka-pnevmaticheskaya-hatsan-at44-10-long-bull-g2046213#.U9FfeGO1F8E (http://kiev.all.biz/vintovka-pnevmaticheskaya-hatsan-at44-10-long-bull-g2046213#.U9FfeGO1F8E)
translation:
Caliber: 4,5 mm (.177)
Type: pre-pumped (PcP).
Inflatable pressure: 200bar.
Volume of tank: 230kub.sm.
Number of shots at full power: 70-80
Muzzle velocity: 355 m / s
Charger: drum 10 bullets
System arming / Recharge: side lever
Type of ammunition: Lead bullets caliber 4,5 mm
Overall length / barrel - 800 mm / 580 mm
Rear sight and front sight: fiberopticheskie thread basis for optical sight
Strap width on the gun: 11 mm and 22 mm
Butt Material: American Walnut
Barrel: Steel, threaded
adjustable butt plate
Descent: adjustable
Fuse: automatic
Weight: kg
Kit: Rifle + 2p. 10-round drum + fitting + bleed nipple pumping tank repair kit with instructions on + + Proporolonennaya RUSSIAN language on the inside cardboard box with a handle.
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This is the model design that they put in the trash can and its a good thing that they did!!!!
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23480 (http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23480)
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The new tacticool marauder (https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10394826_10152365119458778_5101478348919618749_n.jpg?oh=e85cecc4482e1aa7802f1b88af27b1de&oe=544835BC&__gda__=1414208938_f3c70eef1e546bfb6d5405ec872e41b2)
Where is all the info on this pic? what gun is it? what was the distance and pellet for this group?
Baxter,
That's suppose to be the new tactical m-rod that Crosman has been playing with. You should trade one of your Hatsans for it---lol.
Joe
;D where is the rest of it? full pic please.....I think that I will wait and see what Hatsan respond with, from what I hear its a .357 and a bull pup in AT44 and BT65, but we just have to wait and see if Hatsan USA imports them....here is the BT65 Bull Pup
I'd like to see more pics too. A .357 Hatsan would be very nice. Bull Pup...nice too, but I hear Hatsan won't give us the styles they have overseas. Like, the Galatian comes in a walnut thumbhole stock, but not here in the US. I would love to have a rear bolt BT-65, no luck on finding one yet.
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This is the model design that they put in the trash can and its a good thing that they did!!!!
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23480 (http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23480)
Brother, that thing is fugly.
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This is the model design that they put in the trash can and its a good thing that they did!!!!
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23480 (http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23480)
Brother, that thing is fugly.
lol heck yeah lol......
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I do want a bull pup something, a few AF rifles, another 1 or 2 or 3 Discos, a nice magnum springer...list goes on. And of course a Hatsan arsenal is in the mix. I hope to go p-dawging this weekend. Wish we had whistle pigs here in Colorado.
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Joe dont you have yellow bellied marmots aka rock chucks? They are very close in size to wood chucks and here in montana we still call rock chucks whistle pigs. They are very fun to shoot ;D
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Joe dont you have yellow bellied marmots aka rock chucks? They are very close in size to wood chucks and here in montana we still call rock chucks whistle pigs. They are very fun to shoot ;D
Let me rephrase:
I wish they were closer to me. Most are in the mountains and foothills. Not to many damage property---at least you don't hear of it often. P-Dawgs are on the list because of damage and the various strains of plague they now carry (been in the news lately). Ground squirrels aren't in the areas I go. If I can find a permission that has marmots or ground squirrels, I'd be all over it. In Idaho, I believe they call ground squirrels whistle pigs, too.
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When I was in High School,
In the Washington/Idaho border area. We would knock on the wheat farmers doors, and they would hand out free boxes of .22 shells to go hunt those critters in their fields.
Wonder if they hand out pellets these days, lol?
That was 50 years ago, dang I am an old bugger!
Gator