GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: dizzle on June 11, 2014, 02:48:00 AM
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So I was looking at the specs of this and was wondering what everybody's thoughts on it is? I was kind of thinking of ordering it but not too sure
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A lot of people are waiting for good info on this rifle.
There are a few posts by new owners, so far the results are not so good.
I'm hoping that in the long run, the NP2 will be a winner.
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I'm probably going to hold off then. I'm just worried its gonna have issues or be over rated
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There are a couple of posts on the blog on Pyramid Air website. Just click on the Airgun Academy link. Tom Gaylord has posted his initial impressions of the NP2 and they are positive. He also addresses some of the early issues with the gun.
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although i love Crosman i also wonder if Tom Gaylord's rifle was a "Ringer" also wonder if he was paid to review it in some shape or form. but even with the hype I am still going to get one. Just cant seem to get into the PCP thing because of ALL the other additional equipment that is REQUIRED for them... also dont have any local place to get air. And my Savage MKII is just about as cheap to shoot now that .22LR ammo is slowly starting to come back. really wish somebody would make a multi pump rifle that pushed a .22 pellet out at around 1000FPS. would not care that i had to pump it 20-40 times per shot!
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although i love Crosman i also wonder if Tom Gaylord's rifle was a "Ringer" also wonder if he was paid to review it in some shape or form. but even with the hype I am still going to get one. Just cant seem to get into the PCP thing because of ALL the other additional equipment that is REQUIRED for them... also dont have any local place to get air. And my Savage MKII is just about as cheap to shoot now that .22LR ammo is slowly starting to come back. really wish somebody would make a multi pump rifle that pushed a .22 pellet out at around 1000FPS. would not care that i had to pump it 20-40 times per shot!
someone does. it's called the FX Independence. better be sitting down, when you look at the price.
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although i love Crosman i also wonder if Tom Gaylord's rifle was a "Ringer" also wonder if he was paid to review it in some shape or form. but even with the hype I am still going to get one. Just cant seem to get into the PCP thing because of ALL the other additional equipment that is REQUIRED for them... also dont have any local place to get air. And my Savage MKII is just about as cheap to shoot now that .22LR ammo is slowly starting to come back. really wish somebody would make a multi pump rifle that pushed a .22 pellet out at around 1000FPS. would not care that i had to pump it 20-40 times per shot!
A lot of extra equipment is not required to get into PCP. Just get a Discovery with a hand pump. You don't have to get air or fool with expensive equipment; just buy the gun and pump (probably better off going with a Hill or something instead of the Benjamin, though) once you've gone through the easy, basic first stuff (instructions, assembly, filling the gun from empty) all you do after shooting is plug the pump up to the gun, pump for 5 minutes and shoot. And as for Tom Gaylord getting paid to review it I'm really pretty sure his reviews are fairly neutral...
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Does Crosman make their own barrels for the np2 or should I say rifle them?
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although i love Crosman i also wonder if Tom Gaylord's rifle was a "Ringer" also wonder if he was paid to review it in some shape or form. but even with the hype I am still going to get one. Just cant seem to get into the PCP thing because of ALL the other additional equipment that is REQUIRED for them... also dont have any local place to get air. And my Savage MKII is just about as cheap to shoot now that .22LR ammo is slowly starting to come back. really wish somebody would make a multi pump rifle that pushed a .22 pellet out at around 1000FPS. would not care that i had to pump it 20-40 times per shot!
someone does. it's called the FX Independence. better be sitting down, when you look at the price.
Or the old S&W 77A, 20 easy pumps only gets you about 750 fps, though.
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Swedge, I'm kinda with you. I want a PCP but the more I read about all the hassles and the poor shot counts, I tend to think I will just buy a nice old Sheridan and send it to Timmy for a Steroid tune.
Scotty
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although i love Crosman i also wonder if Tom Gaylord's rifle was a "Ringer" also wonder if he was paid to review it in some shape or form. but even with the hype I am still going to get one. Just cant seem to get into the PCP thing because of ALL the other additional equipment that is REQUIRED for them... also dont have any local place to get air. And my Savage MKII is just about as cheap to shoot now that .22LR ammo is slowly starting to come back. really wish somebody would make a multi pump rifle that pushed a .22 pellet out at around 1000FPS. would not care that i had to pump it 20-40 times per shot!
i take anything gaylord says with a large dose of salt, not just a grain. some days, he's pretty much on point. other days, he's so far off the mark, it's easy to believe that alzheimers is setting in.
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although i love Crosman i also wonder if Tom Gaylord's rifle was a "Ringer" also wonder if he was paid to review it in some shape or form. but even with the hype I am still going to get one. Just cant seem to get into the PCP thing because of ALL the other additional equipment that is REQUIRED for them... also dont have any local place to get air. And my Savage MKII is just about as cheap to shoot now that .22LR ammo is slowly starting to come back. really wish somebody would make a multi pump rifle that pushed a .22 pellet out at around 1000FPS. would not care that i had to pump it 20-40 times per shot!
Gaylord is paid to review every gun in a good light, no matter the obvious flaws. He probably had many but doesn't tell his poor, unsuspecting readers everything because the truth would lose sales. Which is what we are seeing now! :o But that's okay! He already helped PA sell tons already ;D To try to make a sale for PA in any form regardless of being true or not, or hiding facts from his customers is why he get's a cheque. I quit reading his "blogs" after seeing him for what he really is.. a salesman that provides ludicrous disinformation He obviously over-hyped the NP2 to such astounding, ridiculous and absurd level (ie the BB of AG 2014 edition) just to help boost PA's pre orders.
Have you ever went to the comments there and see a person or more spill the beans on Gaylord's deceptiveness or disinformation and they are obviously right but then get ignored by "pelletier" or he replies with generic, dumb-founded responses because Tom knows he is in the wrong but can't save his face? Then his fanboys come to his rescue no matter how wrong TG is.
Sorry rant over. I just cringe when I see people using the PA blog (Gaylord's sales pitch) as gospel or as a credible source of information, when it's clearly not. P.A just gets him a rifle and says "make this sell", he then goes to desperate measures ie disinformation.
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Gee Laz, tell us what you really think!! Some of the TG writings on older, vintage airguns is ok, although he is often wrong about repair and maintenance tips and details even there.
I bought a gun years ago when first on the internet, based on TG's 'review'. I was then mad at him for many years before I finally let it go. Every industry has to have a cheerleader, and he serves that role pretty well, I guess. Just too bad that a lot of people don't realize thats what he does, and mistake it for wisdom and knowledge.
BTW, I shot the NP2 prototype at the Shot Show this January, and it did indeed shoot like a dream. Easy to cock, accurate, like a well tuned springer with very little vibration or felt recoil. But, its interesting that Crosman didn't send out any samples for reviewers prior to the release to the public. So maybe the production models weren't quite up to the same build as the prototype.
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O.K. So I'm brand spanking new to the world of "real" airguns. (I had a pellet gun in my early teens) And I'm a "reader" and an engineer... So with 6 months of careful planning and research I can be as spontaneous as the next guy. But enough about me...
So I'm looking at getting a "good" airgun. And it LOOKS like gas springs are a technological (albeit maybe immature) leap that MAY change spring guns forever. And it LOOKS like the Crossman Trail NP2 COULD be another step in that progression. So I have scoured the internet for reviews. Of course with no pre-releases to writers there was nothing before the production run ship date. After that there is one review of a .177 caliber by a Brit that quotes he "heard" the .177 has a problem (but he bought one in .177 anyways!) and then his was horrible and sent it back. And several perturbed off new gun owners that are coloring the reviews with very typical first run quality control issues that the gun may never shake off.
Then I discover B.B. Pelletier (Tom Gaylord/Pyramid) blog. Seems thorough and in depth. But reading between the lines I'm wondering if I even want an air gun now. For example... Mr. Gaylords THIRTEEN (13!) part review of the TX200 Mark III. He states in part 1, "The TX200 Mark III is the finest spring-piston air rifle available today. Please notice that I did not say “one of” or “perhaps” or any other temporizing modifier. This is flat-out the best spring gun there is today — bar none."
Then there are several whole chapters of the 13 (to date) total chapters devoted to how the "...finest spring-piston air rifle available today." is shooting poor groups because it isn't being held right, isn't set on the sandbags right, isn't shooting the right pellets, etc., etc. In one part I think he shot 10-15, 10 shot groups to get ONE that was representative of the "legendary" groupings this $630 dollar gun is capable of.
So I can see why people (and more and more myself) see this guy as an internet flim-flame man. But there are a lot of those (if you get interested in photography the biggest on-line blow hard is Ken Rockwell). The problem is... Where do you find the honest, yet not disgruntled gun reviewers? Ted (Ted's Holdover) might be but he's hard core PCP, not springer. Anyone have any other good resources?
And so... Do any springers shoot consistently without spending an arm and a leg and then require the skill of a master pianist? Or is a PCP the way to go if you want repeatability with mystical powers? I'm lost and getting frustrated.
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Weird, I read Tom's blog (Part 1) on the NP2 he received and it wasn't that favorable. His gun must have went back. Scope mount may have even came off, who knows. Read part 2, Crosman sent him a letter cause they thought he was a little rough on the NP2. You really do have to learn how to read between the lines because they don't want to trash an Airgun, yet there not going to praise a so-so gun. They will find it's strong points, point out some weak points and move on.
I think when the NP2's get re-released The major problems will be go. Some will love it, some will hate it, Some people can't get a 2 inch groups at 10 yards and others shooting under and inch at 50 yards. FPS with CPHP's will be around 740's to maybe 770's. I don't think the Clean Break trigger will break near as clean as it's name but hopefully will be at least as good as Hatsan's Quattro trigger. I still want one, maybe, someday. More interested in the effects of the factory buttoned/tuned piston, the new gas ram and one piece cocking arm. I hate how the 2 piece rides on the stock.
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O.K. So I'm brand spanking new to the world of "real" airguns. (I had a pellet gun in my early teens) And I'm a "reader" and an engineer... So with 6 months of careful planning and research I can be as spontaneous as the next guy. But enough about me...
So I'm looking at getting a "good" airgun. And it LOOKS like gas springs are a technological (albeit maybe immature) leap that MAY change spring guns forever. And it LOOKS like the Crossman Trail NP2 COULD be another step in that progression. So I have scoured the internet for reviews. Of course with no pre-releases to writers there was nothing before the production run ship date. After that there is one review of a .177 caliber by a Brit that quotes he "heard" the .177 has a problem (but he bought one in .177 anyways!) and then his was horrible and sent it back. And several perturbed off new gun owners that are coloring the reviews with very typical first run quality control issues that the gun may never shake off.
Then I discover B.B. Pelletier (Tom Gaylord/Pyramid) blog. Seems thorough and in depth. But reading between the lines I'm wondering if I even want an air gun now. For example... Mr. Gaylords THIRTEEN (13!) part review of the TX200 Mark III. He states in part 1, "The TX200 Mark III is the finest spring-piston air rifle available today. Please notice that I did not say “one of” or “perhaps” or any other temporizing modifier. This is flat-out the best spring gun there is today — bar none."
Then there are several whole chapters of the 13 (to date) total chapters devoted to how the "...finest spring-piston air rifle available today." is shooting poor groups because it isn't being held right, isn't set on the sandbags right, isn't shooting the right pellets, etc., etc. In one part I think he shot 10-15, 10 shot groups to get ONE that was representative of the "legendary" groupings this $630 dollar gun is capable of.
So I can see why people (and more and more myself) see this guy as an internet flim-flame man. But there are a lot of those (if you get interested in photography the biggest on-line blow hard is Ken Rockwell). The problem is... Where do you find the honest, yet not disgruntled gun reviewers? Ted (Ted's Holdover) might be but he's hard core PCP, not springer. Anyone have any other good resources?
And so... Do any springers shoot consistently without spending an arm and a leg and then require the skill of a master pianist? Or is a PCP the way to go if you want repeatability with mystical powers? I'm lost and getting frustrated.
VerminHuntersTV on youtube. You'll learn a ton on airguns, reviews, airgun hunting, getting to know your airgun and much more. ;D Their newer last 5 or so vids are meh, too much darn ratting. They are springer hunters as well as pcp. They favour Weihrauch (for a good reason 8)). Their vids are a little long winded but you'll most likely find more than a few you'll like. They may even convince you unintentionally to buy a HW97KT OR A HW98 ;)
Ted's the man though when it comes to pcp's on YT. Si and Davy are the hunters. Ted wears shorts and t-shirt to a pesting while Si and Davy get geared up in a ghillie wheen needed.
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"Where do you find the honest, yet not disgruntled gun reviewers?"
I like the reviews done by Kenny at myairgunreviews.com.
He just seems like a straight shooting fellow to me. I've never met him but he seems on the level.
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I have money burning the proverbial hole...
Trying to figure out which gun to purchase has me so confused, I'm about to give up...Thought I would do some research/homework on "Air Guns" before wasting money on another Pump. I had no idea so many types and Models were out there.
Viewing & Reading reviews has literally driven me to the point, that I now feel further from making a decision, than before I discovered this site...Yes, I'm very frustrated, when I read that some of the reviewers are nothing more than a Shill for Brand-X...Oh Well!!...Eventually, I'll give my $$$ to someone and probably regret it, because I made the wrong decision...Rant Over.
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The NP2 project has some good points, and I'm all for letting them get everything perfected. Give them some credit for the ideas, and some time to get it wrung out.
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Husker, have you pinned yourself to the GTA members map? You might take a look and see if there are any GTA members close by. If you were in West TN I'd invite you over to handle and shoot almost every type of airgun available. :)
It sure is easier to actually handle an airgun before making a purchase and finding out it's just not "the" one.
Anyway, good luck and hope you can at least narrow your search down.
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And as a gentle reminder, GTA has a review section also for airguns, ammo, scopes/optics and airgun accessories. It's only as useful as YOU make it. Post non-biased reviews of your airgun items to help us all out!!!
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Husker, have you pinned yourself to the GTA members map? You might take a look and see if there are any GTA members close by. If you were in West TN I'd invite you over to handle and shoot almost every type of airgun available. :)
It sure is easier to actually handle an airgun before making a purchase and finding out it's just not "the" one.
Anyway, good luck and hope you can at least narrow your search down.
Yep, No one close...Thanks for the generous offer.
I agree, being able to see, touch and operate virtually anything helps the decision process.
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The NP2 project has some good points, and I'm all for letting them get everything perfected. Give them some credit for the ideas, and some time to get it wrung out.
+1, generally but, at the end of the day, not really.
It is a very poor practice to put a product into a market, expecting enthusiastic early-adopters to spend their money, that is not ready for prime time. The better mousetrap better be a better mousetrap. In fairness to the customer the place to wring out the bugs is in the lab. Then you put your product into the market.
Not the other way around. Smells like yet another poor executive decision and we all know how many of those there are today. Tons. So now Crosman gets to overcome objection, establish credibility, treat their self-inflicted wounds.
Not clever.
The design makes perfect sense, the implementation appears to have been a substandard effort. I'd surely fire the idiot who released it before it was ready. I realize that this wouldn't change the market realities but it I am pretty sure, myself having removed non-critical thinkers from positions of power many times during my career, that the decision-making process would most likely get a whole lot better. It is a process after all, and if managed properly you just don't have stuff like this happening to you in your market. This company clearly needs an overhaul, from top to bottom. It is a mess.
Ben
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And so... Do any springers shoot consistently without spending an arm and a leg and then require the skill of a master pianist? Or is a PCP the way to go if you want repeatability with mystical powers? I'm lost and getting frustrated.
PCP's are easier to shoot and more accurate than most if not all Springers out of the box. If you are looking for PCP accuracy in a Springer, you would have to get your Springer well (pro) tuned. Then you would love your spring gun and never want to let it go.
Harry
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I agree with Harry.
I love the challenge my springer has been and now that I know how to shoot it, the frustration has been replaced with fun!
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I have money burning the proverbial hole...
Trying to figure out which gun to purchase has me so confused, I'm about to give up...Thought I would do some research/homework on "Air Guns" before wasting money on another Pump. I had no idea so many types and Models were out there.
Viewing & Reading reviews has literally driven me to the point, that I now feel further from making a decision, than before I discovered this site...Yes, I'm very frustrated, when I read that some of the reviewers are nothing more than a Shill for Brand-X...Oh Well!!...Eventually, I'll give my $$$ to someone and probably regret it, because I made the wrong decision...Rant Over.
I'ts tough to discern as folks doing the blogs tend to highlight the better points and and some rifles suit people better than others.
Case in point Rick Euster & Tom Gaylord are both enthusiasts and both run blogs highlighting what the major online vendors want to be promoted. Rick loves spring Hatsan's, never seen a review from him that did not sound great. Tom has never reviewed one that he could get results from. My experience is they are performance over precision.
Back onto the NP2, I'm sending mine back, its a very good rifle. That said a Diana 34 is smoother, lighter and much better to shoot in every way except 14ftlbs vs 18ftlbs.
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That said a Diana 34 is smoother, lighter and much better to shoot in every way except 14ftlbs vs 18ftlbs.
Is it quiet/quite?
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That said a Diana 34 is smoother, lighter and much better to shoot in every way except 14ftlbs vs 18ftlbs.
Is it quite?
Spring guns as long as they shoot subsonic are quiet by nature, they sound something like a staple gun. The vast majority of the noise comes from the mechanics of the gun. Have a friend shoot it while you stand five yards to the side/rear, the moderator/shroud has very little effect on noise. The one area a gas spring does have an advantage over the conventional spring is the duration. The gas spring is by nature a dampener for rebound and it has a shorter noise span, that too was used in marketing. Its a nice benefit but hardly a deal breaker.
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And so... Do any springers shoot consistently without spending an arm and a leg and then require the skill of a master pianist? Or is a PCP the way to go if you want repeatability with mystical powers? I'm lost and getting frustrated.
PCP's are easier to shoot and more accurate than most if not all Springers out of the box. If you are looking for PCP accuracy in a Springer, you would have to get your Springer well (pro) tuned. Then you would love your spring gun and never want to let it go.
Harry
the closest springer i have that shoots accurate enough coming close to a pcp is my rws 54.22 and only out to 30yds cause i never shoot it further but it does very well ....jorge
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And so... Do any springers shoot consistently without spending an arm and a leg and then require the skill of a master pianist? Or is a PCP the way to go if you want repeatability with mystical powers? I'm lost and getting frustrated.
I'm very happy with my Stoeger X20S. However, it did require several enhancements. $150 for the X20S (on sale at PA), scope $90, rings $15, brass washers $1 and GTR III trigger $33. No need to tune internals since it was smooth out of the box. I do not find it hold sensitive. Consistent 5/8" groups at 40 yards. My goal was 1" or better at 50 yards, and I now have it. A PCP could cut those groups in half. So it depends on your accuracy objectives.
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although i love Crosman i also wonder if Tom Gaylord's rifle was a "Ringer" also wonder if he was paid to review it in some shape or form. but even with the hype I am still going to get one. Just cant seem to get into the PCP thing because of ALL the other additional equipment that is REQUIRED for them... also dont have any local place to get air. And my Savage MKII is just about as cheap to shoot now that .22LR ammo is slowly starting to come back. really wish somebody would make a multi pump rifle that pushed a .22 pellet out at around 1000FPS. would not care that i had to pump it 20-40 times per shot!
Gaylord is paid to review every gun in a good light, no matter the obvious flaws. He probably had many but doesn't tell his poor, unsuspecting readers everything because the truth would lose sales. Which is what we are seeing now! :o But that's okay! He already helped PA sell tons already ;D To try to make a sale for PA in any form regardless of being true or not, or hiding facts from his customers is why he get's a cheque. I quit reading his "blogs" after seeing him for what he really is.. a salesman that provides ludicrous disinformation He obviously over-hyped the NP2 to such astounding, ridiculous and absurd level (ie the BB of AG 2014 edition) just to help boost PA's pre orders.
Have you ever went to the comments there and see a person or more spill the beans on Gaylord's deceptiveness or disinformation and they are obviously right but then get ignored by "pelletier" or he replies with generic, dumb-founded responses because Tom knows he is in the wrong but can't save his face? Then his fanboys come to his rescue no matter how wrong TG is.
Sorry rant over. I just cringe when I see people using the PA blog (Gaylord's sales pitch) as gospel or as a credible source of information, when it's clearly not. P.A just gets him a rifle and says "make this sell", he then goes to desperate measures ie disinformation.
Wow! shoot the messenger and not the gun! Alzheimer's? that is a real blow which aybe you could be over hyping? Is it possible that the gun at the Shot Show was a custom rifle or do you really think it was out of the box gun for God sake? I find it interesting that his present reviews are not favorable at all. But then again if you hate Gaylord than that is a mute point. Go to the yellow, the gun seems to be having a major crisis in quality control.
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O.K. So I'm brand spanking new to the world of "real" airguns. (I had a pellet gun in my early teens) And I'm a "reader" and an engineer... So with 6 months of careful planning and research I can be as spontaneous as the next guy. But enough about me...
So I'm looking at getting a "good" airgun. And it LOOKS like gas springs are a technological (albeit maybe immature) leap that MAY change spring guns forever. And it LOOKS like the Crossman Trail NP2 COULD be another step in that progression. So I have scoured the internet for reviews. Of course with no pre-releases to writers there was nothing before the production run ship date. After that there is one review of a .177 caliber by a Brit that quotes he "heard" the .177 has a problem (but he bought one in .177 anyways!) and then his was horrible and sent it back. And several perturbed off new gun owners that are coloring the reviews with very typical first run quality control issues that the gun may never shake off.
Then I discover B.B. Pelletier (Tom Gaylord/Pyramid) blog. Seems thorough and in depth. But reading between the lines I'm wondering if I even want an air gun now. For example... Mr. Gaylords THIRTEEN (13!) part review of the TX200 Mark III. He states in part 1, "The TX200 Mark III is the finest spring-piston air rifle available today. Please notice that I did not say “one of” or “perhaps” or any other temporizing modifier. This is flat-out the best spring gun there is today — bar none."
Then there are several whole chapters of the 13 (to date) total chapters devoted to how the "...finest spring-piston air rifle available today." is shooting poor groups because it isn't being held right, isn't set on the sandbags right, isn't shooting the right pellets, etc., etc. In one part I think he shot 10-15, 10 shot groups to get ONE that was representative of the "legendary" groupings this $630 dollar gun is capable of.
So I can see why people (and more and more myself) see this guy as an internet flim-flame man. But there are a lot of those (if you get interested in photography the biggest on-line blow hard is Ken Rockwell). The problem is... Where do you find the honest, yet not disgruntled gun reviewers? Ted (Ted's Holdover) might be but he's hard core PCP, not springer. Anyone have any other good resources?
And so... Do any springers shoot consistently without spending an arm and a leg and then require the skill of a master pianist? Or is a PCP the way to go if you want repeatability with mystical powers? I'm lost and getting frustrated.
No, springers are just as accurate and easy to shoot as pcp guns. Well, they can be if they are tuned down to 8 to 10 ft lbs or so, and have some heft to them. Look at the Euro olympic match rifles, the spring guns have been replaced by pcp as much for the ease of cocking as for any improvement in accuracy. So, choose a purpose, then go for the tool that can do it. No free lunch, you want easy cocking, accurate, etc, probably pcp is best. Don't want to fool with fill gear? Well, then you have a tradeoff in ease of use v. ease of accuracy. Problem is, most of us want it all, easy to obtain accuracy, gobs of power, hassle free, etc. And, the kid at the Big 5 looks at the box and says "sure, you can have it all with this baby, .5" accuracy, 1500 fps, etc etc"
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It seems like the noise from the air exiting out of my benji ss,WFH and even my quest is a major contributor to the over all noise level. The mechanics are less IMO.
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somewhat on topic i love how all the folks that have put the NP2 through a chronograph and ALL the velocities are waaaay lower then the advertised specks granted that's to be expected however looking at what crosman sells pellet wise was wonder just what pellets they use for the velocity. and energy tests? and do they use TWO different pellets and combine the results... i mean obviously an ultra light weight pellet will yield High VMAX but low energy... just wondering if ANYBODY has even come close to the factory specks velocity/energy wise? also would like to ask crossman and all the other manufactures just what pellets do they use for testing? some kind of home made ringers again that weigh a fraction of an Oz? for the velocity tests? granted energy is a much better measure as its harder to fudge.. however as i mentioned earlier i really like crosman, just don't want to see them taking the GAMo route... next thing they will be posting vids of hog hunting with a .177 NP2!!! also would be really cool if the Np2 could be placed in an Np1 and regular spring gun for a side by side comparison... also still think this site needs a chrono section of ALL the user airguns with what mods they have done!! with the chrono review listing pellet weight and brand...
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somewhat on topic i love how all the folks that have put the NP2 through a chronograph and ALL the velocities are waaaay lower then the advertised specks granted that's to be expected however looking at what crosman sells pellet wise was wonder just what pellets they use for the velocity. and energy tests? and do they use TWO different pellets and combine the results... i mean obviously an ultra light weight pellet will yield High VMAX but low energy... just wondering if ANYBODY has even come close to the factory specks velocity/energy wise? also would like to ask crossman and all the other manufactures just what pellets do they use for testing? some kind of home made ringers again that weigh a fraction of an Oz? for the velocity tests? granted energy is a much better measure as its harder to fudge.. however as i mentioned earlier i really like crosman, just don't want to see them taking the GAMo route... next thing they will be posting vids of hog hunting with a .177 NP2!!! also would be really cool if the Np2 could be placed in an Np1 and regular spring gun for a side by side comparison... also still think this site needs a chrono section of ALL the user airguns with what mods they have done!! with the chrono review listing pellet weight and brand...
Maybe they use one-off pellets exclusive to the factory ;D You are right, I think they make the most massive fpe/velocity claims.
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i often wonder if some company's "encourage" a little dieseling for their velocity/energy tests??
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Thanks for all the additional input guys!
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tom gaylord's duplicity is further evidenced by the fact that he wrote a fairly damning blog on the airventuri bronco, yet, it's listed as " one of tom's picks " in the latest pa catalog. ???.
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Interesting response from Crossman in regards to problems with the NP 2.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1403114933/AN+OPEN+LETTER+FROM+CROSMAN (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1403114933/AN+OPEN+LETTER+FROM+CROSMAN)
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Been following the various owners' reports on this gun, mostly to see if it lives up to the hype, and there was a substantial load of that on the part of Crosman. What I've seen so far: this gun falls short in two critical areas. First is overall QC. I will bet Crosman is having a real heart to heart chat with their Chinese parts supplier. Failed rail welds and inability to cock might be an they got burned at the manufacturer's end. Not unlikke other companies which specified one thing and a crooked Chinese plant manager produced something else. Also saw a YouTube video today of an NP2 with small cracks in the shroud where it contacts the breach block. Again, could be unsuitable material or simply poorly thought out design. Those seem to be the main material based gripes. Seems like sufficient sample testing before market release would have caught these issues before the horse left the gate.
Second, and one which gets a real mulligan, although I can't understand why, is the lack of promised power. I don't care that the guns shoot well at a ohundred plus fps less than promised. The whole point of the two piece, snubber piston design is to capture energy lost by a conventional piston. If the design can be made to do that, something is definitely amiss with the gun. Leakage? Lubes interfering with the center band's ability to retard rebound? Don't forget that this is not exactly new technology, having been tried in the UK some time back (and by a company with much, much better QC). Even if Crosman succeeds in fixing the current mechanical woes, producing a gun which shoots at a pedestrian power level per pound of input is a deal breaker for me.
I was in Dick's today and visited their airgun section. About like Walmart's, which is to say cheap Daisy's, Gamo's, etc. Seems like this is the marketing sweet spot that Crosman is targeting for their spring gun lines. That would be fine but for what we were promised.
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Million dollar research and development someone or some people are getting over paid. Looks like its time to sharpen the axe. JMO