GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: huklbery on June 01, 2014, 05:25:56 PM
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Received the NP2 .22 with wood stock thursday. Ran fifty or so pellets through it and mounted a hawke scope with the provided mount. Ran 300+ pellets through it this morning, now I have a good idea of what have here.
The Good
The pistol grip is at much better angle and I had no problem getting my finger pad with my small hands on the trigger.
The trigger is a huge improvement and possibly with some spring tension reduction could become very good.
Fit and finish of the chinese parts is the best I have ever seen. The receiver block for instance has very gentle and even deburred edges.
Seems strong though I didn't bother to chrony it, the folks reporting 18ftlbs wouldn't surprise me.
The Not so Good
The supplied scope without AO is just good enough so you can "shoot" out of the box. By the marketing on the box thats the intended market segment. Since its not something I would ever leave on its no advantage in value.
The cushion behind the piston seal did not do much to reduce the severe jolt of a gas spring guns shot cycle.
The shrouded barrel makes it difficult to inspect for pellet clipping our crown issues. I'm not intending to shoot supersonic ammo so its of no use to me.
I used 5 shot groups of several domed pellets and got the best results with RWS domes. Bit bummed as the cheaper Webley and Crosman domes didn't settle down and had wild fly'ers.
Bottom line, I'll be sending it back as if this has a Diana 34 next to it on the rack I will pick that up every time. The Diana handles better, has a great trigger and while not at the same power level it just does not fight you to get a group. This price point is a problem, and the extra power of the gas spring isn't near as important to me as the shooting experience and results.
This rifle is better in almost every way than the original trail, its just not for me.
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Thanks for taking the time to write it up, Mark. I wasn't looking to buy. It's just good info for me.
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Thanks for the review! So the NP2 comes with a non AO Hawke scope :o What, is the parallax set at 50 yards or something? That's odd for them to do that for a springer?
An included Hawke AO would definitely be a fine 'selling point' for this rifle I would think.
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Thanks for the review! So the NP2 comes with a non AO Hawke scope :o What, is the parallax set at 50 yards or something? That's odd for them to do that for a springer?
An included Hawke AO would definitely be a fine 'selling point' for this rifle I would think.
No sorry I wasn't clear for testing I didn't use the supplied scope but a Hawke I had. The scope that comes with it is a 3-9x32 Centerpoint.
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Thank you for taking to the time to write your experience with the new NPII. It looks like you were very fair.
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Thanks for the review! So the NP2 comes with a non AO Hawke scope :o What, is the parallax set at 50 yards or something? That's odd for them to do that for a springer?
An included Hawke AO would definitely be a fine 'selling point' for this rifle I would think.
No sorry I wasn't clear for testing I didn't use the supplied scope but a Hawke I had. The scope that comes with it is a 3-9x32 Centerpoint.
Oh okay thanks for clearing that up. So maybe your CP would be better for it as it is probably AO until at least 10 yards or so. That Hawk scope would be great for pcp or pb at long range sniping ;D
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Thanks for the review. I'd still be interested to hear a few more reviews about groups or lack thereof (group size, pellet, distance).
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Thanks for the review. I'd still be interested to hear a few more reviews about groups or lack thereof (group size, pellet, distance).
I've got faith it can be a great 20 yarder! Well My Trail NP1 put 5 under a dime at 20 yards before it failed! Never got to test it at 50 yards though :(
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Thanks for the review. I'd still be interested to hear a few more reviews about groups or lack thereof (group size, pellet, distance).
Exactly, I didn't go into to much detail for that reason. My "evaluation" was at best superficial, a few hundred pellets at ten yards.
That said I found out the platform went in the wrong direction for the light simple gun I like to shoot. I will be interested in it if they make a Titan style budget version. I had a low velocity Titan with gold trigger, bushings and I reworked the stock to match my hand. It wasn't a target accurate gun but it could stay on a rabbit head to 30 yards. It shot 14.3g at 650fps and was a dream to cock, shoot and carry. Sadly some local jerk did a smash and grab and it probably is under some kids bed now.
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Gotta say, I'm kind of surprised with all the issues that seem to be popping up with the early guns. Not that there won't be bugs to be worked out in early production of anything more complex than a toothpick but I would have thought Crosman would have QA'd the pudding out of the first 1000 units or so to ship.
Early glowing reviews would probably have them neck deep in orders by now. I know a lot of people want this to be everything the marketing department wants it to be... and I know Crosman will make good on these early defects but it's a shame these issues weren't caught before the guns shipped.
The one thing I've seen most commonly mentioned is cracking (of what sounds like) the breech end shroud cap. With the cracks being so common it must be either material choice or assembly. If the NP2 shroud goes on like the NP/NPXL shround maybe they need to get the boys on the line a torque limited driver for assembling the shroud...
I know the breech end piece on the other NP guns is fairly stout metal but if they went thinner or plastic I could see it being stressed by too much torque on the threaded cap.
Here's hoping everything gets worked out soon and the gun turns out to be 85% or more of what's promised!
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The breech end of the shroud is plastic and shiny and a fairly severe angle. If they did use the wrong material and its prone to cracking they had best fire up a run of Alum replacements and get them to the anodizer pronto. The fact they brought assembly to NY should make it fair easy to change out in process.
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I've got an NP shroud tube right here but not my calipers. Close enough measurements are 7/8" OD and 3/4" ID. The breech end caps for the NP and NP XL are different because the XL has a thicker barrel but maybe they could swap in one of those parts. Now that I think of it though I'm pretty sure the new shroud is fatter so that probably wouldn't work.
Ah well. If I stay true to form I'll be picking up a refurb so I don't feel bad taking it apart right away. :)
But yeah... if that's a plastic part I see a retooling in the near future.... Assembly torque could still be the main factor though.
Dear Crosman Corp,
You're welcome to hire me and send me off across the NE doing scheduled shroud update days. It'll sure save you a lot on shipping all those guns back and forth! ;)
You'd be making another NY job too! I'm a right turn out your driveway and about 115mi down the road. :D
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I've got an NP shroud tube right here but not my calipers. Close enough measurements are 7/8" OD and 3/4" ID. The breech end caps for the NP and NP XL are different because the XL has a thicker barrel but maybe they could swap in one of those parts. Now that I think of it though I'm pretty sure the new shroud is fatter so that probably wouldn't work.
Ah well. If I stay true to form I'll be picking up a refurb so I don't feel bad taking it apart right away. :)
But yeah... if that's a plastic part I see a retooling in the near future.... Assembly torque could still be the main factor though.
1" OD, the plastic end cap gives no indication if it unscrews, pressed or glued. Its 1" OD, .200 long with a .325 opening. I had white glue like remnants at the breech end that shook off on the first few firings.
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1" OD, the plastic end cap gives no indication if it unscrews, pressed or glued. Its 1" OD, .200 long with a .325 opening. I had white glue like remnants at the breech end that shook off on the first few firings.
I can't find the image now that shows a cutaway drawing of the shroud but looking at the business end (baffles) on the Crosman site it does look like it doesn't thread on the same way.
Well, I guess we'll see what the fix is sooner or later.
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1" OD, the plastic end cap gives no indication if it unscrews, pressed or glued. Its 1" OD, .200 long with a .325 opening. I had white glue like remnants at the breech end that shook off on the first few firings.
I can't find the image now that shows a cutaway drawing of the shroud but looking at the business end (baffles) on the Crosman site it does look like it doesn't thread on the same way.
Well, I guess we'll see what the fix is sooner or later.
The camera over emphasises the colour difference between the plastic and Alum tube
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Those pictures make that look awful. Never even really noticed much about that piece on my Trail, but it is the same design. Just glad it's not the breech block where the barrel goes in cracking like I though. I feel better now.
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:'( Does anyone wonder what are chrony numbers with the 14.3 chp???? I think that the little defects is not so much a draw back if crosman respect their warranty.. What is intriguing me is, the velocity they announced at the shot show was their marketing candy to push their sales..
But no one is showing chrony numbers and that's what stop me from ordering one for the DECEPTION FACTOR... The piston being the same as the old Trail np is another issue that was not mention anywhere.. My Trail NP has shot around 3000 pellets trough it but has change the piston 3 time in the process.. Don't want to steer the pot, just want to others opinion... ;)
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Someone on the yellow did a nice review including chrony numbers. He got an average of 762 fps using 14.3 gr pellets which is 18.5 FPE. It seems like a nice rifle but I wish Crosman advertised it as a 20 FPE airgun instead of 26 FPE. My NPSS has more than 18.5 FPE.
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The piston being the same as the old Trail np is another issue that was not mention anywhere..;)
The nitro piston and actual piston are not the same as what's in the Trail NP. The piston has a guide at the front and buttoned in the rear like a factory tune job. The Nitro piston is a new supposedly higher quality design.
I enjoy shooting my Trail NP AW. It seem to fit me perfect when I shoulder it. It's 4 years old and the only change I made was the GTR trigger upgrade. I'm hoping this feels more like the Remington NPSS that was on my wish list.
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Another new feature of the NP2 is the Recoil Arrest Feature which is basically a urethane cushion at the end of the gas ram which supposedly eliminates secondary recoil.
I was looking at the parts diagram for the NPSS on Crosman's website because I needed the part number for a new gas ram and I see that they now have a part called "gas spring cushion" for the NPSS. I ordered one as well as a piston seal and gas ram.
I installed all three parts today and noticed that there is less secondary recoil than before. I suppose the Recoil Arrest feature isn't exactly new after all.
Oh, and the new gas ram has the NPSS shooting 14.3 gr CPHP pellets at 800 fps!
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Was that cushion part # ELS-011 and was the piston a different design than the stock one you took out?
I think the NP2 Recoil Arrest is the guide at the front that Craymar was talking about. Pretty sure it's supposed to expand at the end of the shot cycle and keep the piston from rebounding.
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Yea, that's the part # and the gas piston was the same as the original.
I thought the guide helps with reducing cocking effort.
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Someone on the yellow did a nice review including chrony numbers. He got an average of 762 fps using 14.3 gr pellets which is 18.5 FPE.
Can you provide a link to this test?? It would be appreciated.. Thanks ;D
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I was looking for that link too. Not knocking that forum but I find it hard to navigate/find what I'm looking for.
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I didn't see any mention of the cocking force, a part of the new project design.
Can you measure it on your bathroom scale? Compare it to your D34, for folks to see something to equate against?
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I didn't see any mention of the cocking force, a part of the new project design.
Can you measure it on your bathroom scale? Compare it to your D34, for folks to see something to equate against?
I don't have a scale but I'll check tonight back to back against these three rifles. For a standard gas spring gun though I did find it improved, just not to the level I had hoped from the initial shot show write ups. I have not sent it back yet, since Mondays Tom Gaylord's blog may reveal something I'm missing. Since he hasn't published a second article I'm thinking he ran into issues with his as well though thats of course speculation on my part. At this point I'm 95% certain I'm sending it back as a D34 is a much better match for my shooting enjoyment.
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Crosman claims a reduction of cocking force of 10 lbs for the new NP2.
Here is the link to the review:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1400984955/1401071815/Benjamin+NP2+.22+cal+1st+impression (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1400984955/1401071815/Benjamin+NP2+.22+cal+1st+impression)
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Crosman claims a reduction of cocking force of 10 lbs for the new NP2.
Here is the link to the review:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1400984955/1401071815/Benjamin+NP2+.22+cal+1st+impression (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1400984955/1401071815/Benjamin+NP2+.22+cal+1st+impression)
My experience mirrors this fellows, they did a real improvement all the way around. Bottom line though is its at the D34's price point and aside from raw power the D34 has it beat. I also note he found the firing cycle harsh enough to remark about it. I too was expecting more from the additional cushion behind the seal. I suspect it much likes Hatsan's SAS, its still a springer and power and hold sensitivity go hand and hand.
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The one thing I've seen most commonly mentioned is cracking (of what sounds like) the breech end shroud cap. With the cracks being so common it must be either material choice or assembly. If the NP2 shroud goes on like the NP/NPXL shround maybe they need to get the boys on the line a torque limited driver for assembling the shroud...
Stickstoff, you old gasser, I think you might be on to something....
I was just reading the PA blog entry on the NP2 and spotted this bit of text: "Unfortunately, the shroud unscrews from the barrel, and the rear portion of the shroud is made from plastic. People may overtighten their shrouds, causing this plastic to crack."
So the shroud does screw on in some fashion and these cracks with the plastic part of the shroud are probably from over-torquing during assembly. Yep, get those guys some sort of torque limiting driver to install the shrouds with and cut your returns by a large margin. :)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2014/06/benjamin-trail-nitro-piston-2-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2014/06/benjamin-trail-nitro-piston-2-part-1/)
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You know America could produce a truly great airgun. Darn shame Crossman/Benjamin won't commit to it
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You know America could produce a truly great airgun. Darn shame Crossman/Benjamin won't commit to it
John
You got that right. i waited for these reports on the new NP2. i like the piston concept with the rear bearings. but as for the rest of the gun. sort of disappointing so far. i was hoping to hear of accuracy to compare to the 34
Chet
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You know America could produce a truly great airgun. Darn shame Crossman/Benjamin won't commit to it
You got that right! Just look at the versatility of the Airforce pcp guns. What we need is a top notch springer to maybe compete with these TX's and Weihrauchs ;D Beeman did a good job of just slapping nice stocks on German guns though.
Crosman/Benjamin just need an actual "high-end" line/series ie $400-500+ springer and something that's not the Rogue price. Enough of the over-hyped, non innovative stuff they've been putting out.
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:-[There is a lot of company that made better air rifle then Crosman/Benjamin.. Just look at Hatsan hole line of product and THEY live up to their claim and reputation.. It`s not so much about the Crosman price or QC certification that I`m not happy with.. It`s their falsely advertise claims they never met.. The trail NP for an exemple is a great gun when you can tune it yourself.. Good power for the price, nice grouping when you can manage to revised every screws and replace those plastic washer to hold the barrel.. My burn come from their not meet claim and low quality of assembling if you compare to other company.. I have better shooting experience with the Hatsan 85 sniper and the RWS 34 compact than any Crosman/Benjamin line.. I`d rather buy a trail NP at discount and fiddle with it than buy their new NP2..
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You know America could produce a truly great airgun. Darn shame Crossman/Benjamin won't commit to it
You got that right! Just look at the versatility of the Airforce pcp guns. What we need is a top notch springer to maybe compete with these TX's and Weihrauchs ;D Beeman did a good job of just slapping nice stocks on German guns though.
Crosman/Benjamin just need an actual "high-end" line/series ie $400-500+ springer and something that's not the Rogue price. Enough of the over-hyped, non innovative stuff they've been putting out.
I would gladly pay $500 for a high quality, American made, gas piston, breakbarrel.....are you listening Crossman?
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Made in America isn't going to happen at the current price. Assembled in USA using Chinese steel and other components is the key for Crosman to keep the price down.
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Made in America isn't going to happen at the current price. Assembled in USA using Chinese steel and other components is the key for Crosman to keep the price down.
I agree, the Walther LGV's haven't exactly been flying off the shelves. I still think this is a very good platform, they addressed every aspect wildcat tuners have been performing for years. The trigger spring could do with some less lawyer force and if you get the luck of the draw decent chinese barrel bob's your uncle.
Would mine break in and settle down to be like the one Gaylord experienced at the Shot show? I don't know, I'm waiting for his second report just in case I'm missing something. I do not wish to take advantage of Pyramyd and return a rifle that I simply don't like, but in this case its an improved trail not a phenomenal rifle in my book. If a gas spring or 18 over 14 ftlbs was important to me it could very well be better choice than the Umarex Octane, Gamo or Hatsan products it competes with.
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quote{ If a gas spring or 18 over 14 ftlbs was important to me it could very well be better choice than the Umarex Octane, Gamo or Hatsan products it competes with. }
I need to ask you if you ever shoot a Hatsan or a Umarex first off????? I don't want to be rude but I have and my personal impression after having shooting the Hatsan or the Walter was a WAY more better feeling experience.. I don't try to make it a ^*%$#@ contest here.. Just want to know if you have experience other brand in the same power range... My personal input is nothing more than based on their QUALITY OF BUILD AND SHOOTING FEELING.. I just want to know what other have for evaluation on the subject.. Thanks
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quote{ If a gas spring or 18 over 14 ftlbs was important to me it could very well be better choice than the Umarex Octane, Gamo or Hatsan products it competes with. }
I need to ask you if you ever shoot a Hatsan or a Umarex first off????? I don't want to be rude but I have and my personal impression after having shooting the Hatsan or the Walter was a WAY more better feeling experience.. I don't try to make it a ^*%$#@ contest here.. Just want to know if you have experience other brand in the same power range... My personal input is nothing more than based on their QUALITY OF BUILD AND SHOOTING FEELING.. I just want to know what other have for evaluation on the subject.. Thanks
Not the Umarex, or recent Gamo's Gas spring, I have several Hatsans and only one gas spring Hatsan. So if you notice I do not make any claims about what I have not shot I suspect you are reading way to much into my comments. In truth I don't think the two days and 500 pellets are more than an impression on the NP2. I have a wide range of airguns FX Royal 400 to a metal receiver Baikal 61 somewhere over 30 air rifles, I'm just another enthusiast.
That said, given a D34 or an NP2 Trail the NP2 trail would gather dust. I do also agree I'm not keen on 18+ ftlb springers the only one I keep is my D48, so the NP2 trail isn't going to be on my list as the piston rebound cushion is like the Hatsan SAS, its there but its still a springer.
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Seems about the same from what I've heard. glad i canceled my order
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Personally, I'm not willing to spend $250 on 18~fpe when I have a .22 nitro venom that produces nearly 18fpe at $100+ cheaper and is more accurate than I am. It shoots a ragged hole at 25+yds. If I were to spend $250 or more on a gun at this point it would need to be one quality piece of equipment.(Diana or even higher end). My venom + gtx trigger + bushing and washers will easily outshoot the np2 I'd be willing to wager. I just can't wrap my head around putting a small profit margin over producing exceptional quality goods when, in all honesty, the air gunning niche is what it is. We, like firearms enthusiasts, demand a quality product so we spend the dough. Why not boost your reputation AND profits by making EVERYTHING right the first time????
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:)
Personally, I'm not willing to spend $250 on 18~fpe when I have a .22 nitro venom that produces nearly 18fpe at $100+ cheaper and is more accurate than I am. It shoots a ragged hole at 25+yds. If I were to spend $250 or more on a gun at this point it would need to be one quality piece of equipment.(Diana or even higher end). My venom + gtx trigger + bushing and washers will easily outshoot the np2 I'd be willing to wager. I just can't wrap my head around putting a small profit margin over producing exceptional quality goods when, in all honesty, the air gunning niche is what it is. We, like firearms enthusiasts, demand a quality product so we spend the dough. Why not boost your reputation AND profits by making EVERYTHING right the first time????
I agree with everything you have said... Bang for the buck, that`s what it is..If we as customer have no leverage on them, we might turn our head toward foreign company...