GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Benjamin Airguns => Topic started by: kamora187 on January 07, 2011, 03:50:49 PM
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hello,
Do any of you guys own both of these or have you shot both? I am wondering how they stack up to each other? I was told that the 725 is not so good for distance shooting and I like to reach out and touch targets. So I wanted to see what some of you might have to say that have shot both?
Thanx,
Travis
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What distance are you talking about ? it might not have the flat trajectory of the .22 but it's all about zeroing it accordingly and learn your mildots, those guys in the U.K. hunt with 12 FPE .22s that's far more drop than the powerfull NP XL .25 Than you can use the FTT, those are 20 gr pellets, trajectory should be pretty good with those
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Hey Manny,
My idea of a hunting application for the gun would be to sit in my buddy's sunflower field where there are some crows and thousands of blackbirds and reach out 100+ yrds to smack them without having to aim 3ft over to compensate. It looks like the FPE at 50 yrds is very comparable between the 1100 and 725 but the 1100 is faster meaning flatter (generally speaking).
Regards,
Travis
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100 yards ?...then you better get a PCP,..For sure
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Hey Manny,
Why do you say that? And I would love one but not in the budget right now. I saw the corsair .308 and that was pretty sweet though, maybe down the road. The guns themselves are one thing then you need connection lines and fill bottles and so on. I totally understand and agree with the quote "if you want to do it, do it right" but you have to weigh out how much you are going to use it with how much it costs. But I am interested in hearing about the variance between NP and PCP and why it matters at distance. It seems like FPE is close, must be accuracy...
Thanks!
Travis
Travis
Travis
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More expert folks surely will chime in ( surprised they didn't yet ).....100 yards with a break barrell ? ....no thanks, especially with a real hold sensitive one like the NP XL, power isn't everything,..unfortunatly :)
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FPE actually isnt THAT close. the npxl in .22 cal will only reach 700-800 fps depending on the weight of pellet. most npxls are getting around 25-28 fpe I believe. others who own them will comment on it. I am only going on memory of other posts I read. Pcps can be 30-60 FPE depending on which one you'd get. also Pcp is basically recoilless making it Wayyyyy accurate! an npxl is very hold sensitive and has some pretty rough recoil from what I understand. plus it takes time to learn to shoot springers, especially MAGNUM springers. hope this helps. and if i am off on any of the figures that i mentioned, some pleas feel free to correct me.
Joshua A.
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Hey Joshua,
Thanks for the info, as I had mentioned I am new to airguns I have not shot one for about 25+ years. I am not saying that all of the shots would be 100+ but I would be hoping to take some out to that distance. Good to know about the PCPs but I would think it is better knowing that every shot will be consistent instead of loosing pressure after each shot like PCP. I just remember growing up with a CO2 pistol and hated that from shot to shot there was a difference in power. I would think that you have to stay on top of your air constantly and Having to top off a tank over and over just does not sound all that fun to me. I can see if you are spending a ton of time shooting but I am just getting started and wont have a ton of time to contribute to shooting, wish I could but the schedule is pretty full. If I am way off let me know, I really appreciate information from people who are experienced.
Thanks guys!!
Travis
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Hey Joshua,
I was looking at specs between the NPXL 1100 and the Marauder .22 at :
http://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/ (http://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/)
They seemed pretty close there.
Travis
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the differences in pcp pressure does not change enough that it would be noticable, and/or effect shot accuracy, as it sounds like you are thinking. and depending on the gun you can get 40-50 good shots before the pressure drops enough to affect accuracy. most pcps can also be tuned for more or less shots as well. more shots=less power per shot though or less shots with more power. many pcps have a dial right in the gun somewhere for adjusting power. I love all kinds of airguns and I don't even own a pcp, but I have read and read and read up on them and know a great deal about them. maybe a springer or something else would be a better choice for you if you aren't going to be shooting THAT much, a pcp most likely is more than you need. an npxl will work fine for what you have discribed. it could probly reach out to 60-70 yds. we only recommended pcp because you said 100 yds.....and that won't work out well with a springer, multi-pump, NP and certainly not co2. there is a big fan base for the np's and npxl's i have one myself. they are an absolute blast. good luck to you bud, let us know what you end up with.
Joshua A.
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Just from what I have read and seen on here and other places accuracy past 100 yards is going to be brutal to accomplish with any measure of consistency. I was watching a video of a guy shooting beers with an Edgun at 115 yards or something and he said his elevation was max'd out and he was still having to use his mildots to compensate. Now that is a really expensive gun $1000+. I've also
Seen and heard people say at 50 yards their Mrods group quarter sized or
Less for five shots. You're talking about a probably 50-100 yard shot with a springer. Well that's gonna be a problem. Can it be
Done? Yes but probably not very often. Not
Only would you have to use a ton of holdover but you would also have to be able to shoot the thing accurately at closer distances first. And magnum spring guns can be very tough to shoot consistently with accuracy out past even 40 yards. I would recommend a PCP over
anything else. And one the shoots around 30+ fpe. And Mrod can do that. Also just a thought, I watched an episode of airgun
Reporter where Paul took his airforce condor and did some
100 yard shooting. That gun he has generates 60 or so fpe and he said he struggled to shoot the 1+ inch group that he showed.
I don't mean to be brutally negative here but I just don't see any GOOD chance of just about anyone consistently being able to shoot Crow sized animals at 70+ yards with a spring gun. In my mind it is just not going to happen and if it does it would probably be a lucky shot.
I would go PCP all the way. And
Even then I would try and get a
Little closer to your targets if at all
Possible so you get the beat opportunity to make a good and humane harvest.
Just my thoughts.
Good luck and keep us informed on your decision.
Tyler
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like tpatner said, your gonna have to get good with these things for that. its would be better off using a suppresed .22 or .17.
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Hey guys,
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. I would run right out and but a PCP but the accessories cost as much as the gun and $600-700 is not in the budget. Good to know about the increased accuracy in the PCP over the springer though.
Travis
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NPXL 1100 vids of possible interest...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvU-4vonWbg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvU-4vonWbg#)
Lots of different ballistics vids too. - this one shows interesting cp ultra results.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_V1q2lcivs&feature=related#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_V1q2lcivs&feature=related#ws)
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Thanks Alan, I have seen them all over an over :) Great videos, he does a nice job! I commented on one of his posts that if he wanted to do a down range test I would pay for the ballistic gel, since he is shooting from I think 4' away. It would be interesting to see what happens at 30-50 yrds.
The one think I have not seen is a review on the XL 725.
Travis
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You mention you don't have ton of time to dedicate to shooting.
Not to sound negative, but all the more reason to get a PCP, right away you'll be shooting dimes, it's a bit like cheating :)
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this is what you should get right here.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/airforce-ultimate-condor-pcp-air-rifle?m=1469 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/airforce-ultimate-condor-pcp-air-rifle?m=1469)
and then buy a hand pump. it fits most of your described needs, and you won't have to worry about filling a scuba tank. those little rascals won't stand a chance.
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I hear ya guys, who knows I might have to think about it. There is no way I am dropping $1500 to start out, I would be divorced tomorrow! The sad thing is what I pay for daycare for one month would buy that condor and a carbon fiber buddy bottle and some pellets :)
I do appreciate your guys advice!
Travis
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hahahaha i got ya! I thought you would get a kick out of that. it would be the best to for what you want, other than a rimfire. if you bring the target range into 30-50 yards your trail XL 1100 would be pretty good. just remember that with spring air guns, you have to learn to shoot them accurately. experimenting with different holds and pellets will help too. I'd go for the 1100 as opposed to the 725 simply because of the wide variety of .22 cal available pellets. you would be more limited in pellet selection if you went with the XL 725. this is just my opinion. whatever you do decide to do, keep us posted, and good luck bud. If there are any other questions just ask. ;)
Joshua A.
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Thanks Joshua,
You guys are great, it is nice to have good people around to help out those who are just starting! I would have to say I am thinking about the 1100 or the NPSS, I love the fact that the NPSS is made here and hear that it might be better made, but like the extra 150 fps, the wooden stock and the sling on the on the 1100. Oh well I will figure it out soon and I will keep you posted, and if I really get into it I have no problem dropping some coin on a nice PCP.
Thanks!
Travis
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It is very hard not to get "into it" and i think just about everyone here will agree. its a serious addiction. you have no idea. but you will as soon as you get your new gun. Also, as i've told others, I almost have as much fun here at the GTA discussing, and seeing pictures of airguns. It is definatly a great place to hang out. the list of guns that I have, all come since may 2010....except for 1.
Joshua A.
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A nice Sumatra would be 400 bucks at Pyramyd after discount a G4 pump 180 bucks, a scope 70.
that would give you a serious 100+ yards hunter
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100 yds?? seriously?? that would be extremely impressive. man, manny you sure are pushin the sumatra these days. you must be very very impressed with yours. they look like a great deal, and a very beautiful lookin gun in my opinion. it will get some serious consideration from me in my upcoming pcp decision, you can bet on that.
Joshua A.
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Manny's exactly right,and I 2nd that.The Sumatra is one heck of a rifle. I've also got the 2500 500cc Sumatra and I'm totally blown away with the Power and Accuracy.I love my Springers but the Sumatra is my Favorite Hunter when I want to reach out to 50 or beyond and not have to worry about a Bandit shaking his head and looking for the road he he.I've never had as good a groups at 50 yards with Springer's,but this thing with Barracuda's is deadly and I'm no FT shooter,(Just an Ole country boy) who's grown up with guns all my life.I like the Sumatra so much I'm buying one more PCP and that's the Condor so I can have a Barrel in each caliber and then it's on to my AA TX 200 later on,he he.Joshua,,if you like the looks of the Sumatra,,well pictures doesn't do the gun justice. Anyway,,just wanted to mirror what Manny was saying and add my 02 cents. Happy Plinking guys.
P/S: I've got the Trail XL in .22 cal and 50 yards is good for a Bandit,(But it had better be right between the lookers),but 100 yards,no way I'd take that shot at 60.Actually I wouldn't with my Trail pushing SHP's at 884 fps,(At least she was before the Full Tune and I'm waiting for my kit to put her back in action),nope,way to far in my books.Now the Sumatra,,well I'd take that shot and i know he wouldn't be going no where he he.Now with the Trail,well I like to know when that Predator hits, it's gonna do the job, and in my personal opinion and even as stout as my trail was before,I still think 50 yards is kind of pushing it.But that's JMHO. Thanks.
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That Sumatra is pretty cool looking, if I were to look at a PCP it would probably be a Marauder or a corsair .308. Man that Corsair looked pretty cool and is only $575. I think for now I will stick with a NP just not sure if I will get the NPSS or the NPXL 1100. hmmmm
Travis
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I would go for the npss, i think it will be a much better first (modern) gun for you. I see a lot of people start to get into this sport/hobby and go right for an XL and get frustrated because they have a hard time learning and having patience with it. it has some rough recoil and is really hold sensitive. some people I have seen, started out with that one because of its power, but then ended up selling it or returning it, many times for an npss.... the npss is said to be of better build quality (internally) and is a bit easier to shoot, and much easier to cock. very popular because of being american made. I am not saying that would happen in your situation, you might pick it right up and shoot it fine. Knowing what you know now from all of the info you have recieved here before you bought your gun, you would likely do better with an XL just because you know a bit more about what to expect. I hear really great things about the npss and the XL though, either are great guns. I am a BIG crosman fan, and there is a good reason for that.
Joshua A.
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I really like the NPXL because of the wooden stock and the extra 150-200 fps and the sling. I like the NPSS because it is made here. Any of you guys live in Colorado? that would be cool to shoot one first but not likely. :) Honestly I think I would be ok with either gun. If the NPSS had a wood stock like the NPXL it would be a done deal.
Travis
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maybe try looking into some of these too. some recommendations for you. good hunting guns with power. these guns also are ones with good reps that lots of people like and use for hunting.
Tech force 89 or 87
norica storm classic
stoeger X-20 or X-50
RWS Model 34 or Model 350 magnum
BAM B-28
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Thanks Joshua! to be honest if I were looking for a non PCP gun I think it would be hard for me to choose one that was not a nitro piston just for the fact that you can keep it cocked longer and it is quieter. But I will look into those, I have researched the RWS 350 looked pretty nice and it is supposed to be of great quality. Quite is really big for me, I have a gun safe full of rifles and shotguns but I want to shoot something that is ultra quiet. In the videos by Paul C. on airgun reporter the NPSS was 20 DBs quieter than the Marauder, pretty impressive.
Travis
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Hey one thing that I noticed between the NPXL and the NPSS is that the NPXL's barrel is 5" longer, wouldn't that make it even quieter than the NPSS? Figure there would be 5 more inches of baffling in there and just a longer barrel should be quieter?? thoughts?
Travis
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they are pretty quiet. especially the npss. I have the powder burners too. I just love guns hahaha. again, good luck. keep us posted.
Joshua A.
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I'm almost positive that the npss is known for being the more quiet one.
Joshua A.
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Thanks buddy I appreciate the info! I would guess that if I got the NPSS and wanted I could find a different stock for it.
Travis
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I have the xl1100, I have to say that mine is very accurate. out of every five to six shots I shoot at a thin branch at about 50 yards and hit it. Never tried anything at 100 yards although the power is there for that range if the accuracy would be good enough.
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Thanks Alex, I am going to have to do some soul seaching and see what kind of deals I can find. 50 yds seems to be the max that most people try to achieve with a springer\NP
Travis
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and sadly, i don't think there is a wood stock for the npss....there's some that will fit, but they are on guns that are no longer made, or no longer offered in a wood stock version. benjamin legacy, and crosman/remington legend.
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That Sumatra is pretty cool looking, if I were to look at a PCP it would probably be a Marauder or a corsair .308. Man that Corsair looked pretty cool and is only $575. I think for now I will stick with a NP just not sure if I will get the NPSS or the NPXL 1100. hmmmm
Travis
You wanna get a Corsair for shooting birds over a flower field ? the Corsair is a 200 FPE gun at 3700 psi.
Maurader .22, better choice but still the maurader is a low power gun you will really learn to use your mildots.
The trial series comes with the NP too, same look of the NP XL but a bit easyer to shoot.
I love my NP XL I think it's a great gun,...no matter where it's made
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I have no issue with my XL 1100 and if I'm going to worry about it being made in China,,well I'm going to buy German guns then,,as they have it down pat.Also if the Chinese gun's are no good,,and Diana used their Barrel's for a couple years so they can't be that bad.I have one 100% ''Made in Germany'' 350 magnum with the 8 L&G barrel and she's a sweet shooter,but they used Chinese barrels on the 34's and 350's for a couple years and that's why I wouldn't buy another Diana until they switched back.The German's do know how to make one fine rifle so if Chinese made gun's is an issue,,well the decision id easy for me,it's going to be German or USA made.I cannot say I have any issues with the Trail,,and I also have to say other than the stock on mine,(Which they Replaced) I am very Happy with my XL,(But my 350 with the Full Tune and the Macarri Pro mag spring is my favorite springer)! My Sumatra is my Favorite Hunting rifle followed but my 350, Trail & HW85. Hope this helps a bit,,Shoot Safe,,but Have a Blast.
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Hey Manny,
I was just saying if I were to be in the market for a PCP those would be the two I would look at and why no hammer black birds and crows with it, can't you get grain weights into the 50s? But for now I will either go with the NPXL 1100 or the NPSS. Troy, I have read a bunch of posts on here and have seen several where people have said that they had minor issues with their NP trail and NPXL guns out of the box, that is why I questioned the Chinese manufacturing, because they also did and I am the New Guy here :) I am glad that yours has exceeded expectations.
Thanks,
Travis
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Yep your right.I have seen quite a few but it seems that they have done some tweaking on the trail as a friend of mine just bought one and it seems to be even better than the one I have right out of the box.I think all of them have had seal problems due to threads back at the end of the receiver,,but oddly enough his was as good as I've seen so far.I think Crosman has picked up their pace a bit or maybe called these problems into question as Ryan's was a Hammer right out of the box.I never said mine was in good shape inside when I got it as it had a lot of oil inside and the seal was a bit marred up,but other than that and the stock,(Which was easy to fix) and then doing a tune on it,well that was all she needed.The Trails,(or at least the first one's) seemed to be pretty poorly manufactured last year,but what I was trying to convey is that it seems they've picked it up a bit as I was actually a bit envious of the way mine came compared to his,(And his was stronger out of the box as well) as his seal was a lot better than mine.
I guess my point is that everything that comes out of China in the past has left a lot to be desired,but as some has said,Crosman seems to be on it and more than willing to fix whatever they need too.
I totally understand,(And Agree) with you on the Chinese manufacturing,100%,but I do have to commend Crosman for fixing or replacing what they needed to to make everyone happy.My point was that if your looking for a good gun at a reasonable price,,the Trail is a very Good choice,but I still think the German made and anything Made in the Good Ole US of A. is the way to go.Crosman's gonna make it right whether there's is made in China or the US I think.Btw,,I wouldn't say mine exceeded my expectation's,,but they did fix it, and with a full tune now iIthink that may apply after a little work and the new stock they sent me.I still have to recommend the Condor though for the same reason's,Made in the US would be my first choice.Sorry for the misunderstanding too. Thanks and Have Fun.
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No problem Troy, and thanks for the info. I must say that I am really starting to like the Trail NP Laminated after taking a close look at it. It matches my 30-06 :) But of course that too is out of stock...
Travis
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Now that's One Nice 30-06!!! Wow,I think I'd go for the Trail laminated as well.if you do Please post a pic so we can admire her,,I'll be interested to see it as I've only seen the laminated version on the seller's sites.Thanks and TTya later,Happy Shooting.
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Thanks Troy, I have checked and they are out of stock all over, even at Crosman. As soon as they come back in stock I will be getting one. Love that stock and I think the NP Trail power plant will be just fine. I will drop a note and some pics when I am able to get it.
Later,
Travis
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here you go. if you go make an acct. here you could pick this up......you gotta hurry though
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1294696174/WTS-+Remington+NPSS+.22+%28EDITED%29.+Made+in+USA (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1294696174/WTS-+Remington+NPSS+.22+%28EDITED%29.+Made+in+USA)
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i do have a regular trail NP AW, and I love it. pretty powerful, smooth, and just a great gun. here is a pic of mine, some people do not like thumbhole stocks but I love them, and I have yet to find a gun that is as comfortable as this gun to shoot.. this is a 5 shot group that I shot at 30-35 yds OFF-HAND!!!....don't know how i did it, but i did....
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i42/rafeer896/airgun%20stuff/group02.gif)
Joshua A.
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Hey that is a nice one, gold trigger is an upgrade right? Good shooting!
Travis
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yeah that is the GRTIII trigger. it is one of the best triggers that i have ever pulled, and is the best $30.00 you could spend on an air rifle. the stock trigger was absolutely terrible.
Joshua A.
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Nice to know, I have heard alot about those and will have to get one. That is when I finally get a gun. That pistol on your avitar looks just like a Ruger mark I, I have one of those, of course it is a 22 and not an airgun. But it is pretty cool looking.
Travis
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yeah those are nice rimfire pistols. I know a few ppl that have the markIII hunter. very nice, accurate and reliable pistols. the one in my avatar is just like the ruger markI. it is actually the crosman markI and was made until the early-mid 80's they are starting to get a bit rare these days, and are one of crosmans most sought after air pistols. built like a tank, powerful as heck, and super super accurate! there is also a highly acclaimed airgunsmith that takes them and builds/converts them into a very desirable, and popular target pistol called the MARK I LD PISTOL. the gunsmith (mac1) has a shop out in CA and also does other custom airguns that are very popular. check out his websites here. the LD pistol has apparently won several target matches and is pin-point accurate out to 50-75yds
http://www.mac1airgun.com/ (http://www.mac1airgun.com/)
http://www.mac1airgunstore.com/ (http://www.mac1airgunstore.com/)
Joshua A.
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Josh, the numbers you post for the XL are pretty far off, those are more accurate for the NPSS which has less power. My XL1100 is shooting right around 905 with CHHP's with a FPE of 24+. If you're only getting 7-800, I think you're due for a tune.
That said, I just wouldn't shoot at 50+ unless I was plinking. Those videos are at 45 yds. but I suspect we didn't see every shot that was taken to get those results, also, it seems there was no wind. FYI, I've got a buddy who was on a local fire/rescue team who has a scuba tank AND a smaller Scott tank from his days in the dept. which he said I could have if I ever get my PCP funded. He told me they must turn them over every so often and get new tanks. You might check with your local fire dept. He thought it likely you could sweet talk them into giving you one. They would likely have a lot of usable life in them as the FD regulations make them turn them over sooner. They also beat carrying a full size tank out to the range.
I did a lot of research as well when I decided to get back into AG's about a year ago. And although I'm quite happy with the XL, I was pretty sure at that point, as a result of the research, that I wasn't either going to find the one perfect AG for everything, or I wasn't going to be satisfied with just one. The later scenario "no thanks"(LOL) to the GTA and all the great folks here. Took me less than a week here to get hooked! Now I experience almost daily frustration because some inane thing called a budget! Guess I'll just keep getting some of those lottery tickets, Hey, you never know! ;) ;D ;D ;D
pv
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i may be chiming in late here.
a benjamin discovery is 260 at PA, a tko brake is 44, and magazines are 92 (mount and 2 mags)
you dont have to get the brake or mags, the gun is perfectly fine either way
now to fill it, you can get a used 120 cubic foot steel tank for about 140 from a dive shop, then 65 for the adaptor and 6 bucks for a fill unless your local FD will fill for you. i get 50+ fills on my disco (probably more, havnt hit that number yet) and i get about 35 good shots before there is any drop in accuracy. and this gun will reach out to 75 yards (thats where my target is at) with good accuracy, like quarter sized accuracy and thats tripod shooting cause i like cheating.
this gun has absolutly zero recoil and the local bird populace hates it,so it could be about 475-500 for a gun and fill set up, but for future guns you wont need a new source cause these tanks are good for 15 years.
i havnt read all three pages so my bad if someone already tried to sway you towards pcp's
good luck
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Hey NGOTB,
Thanx for the info, I think the PCP sounds good but I will probably just go with the NP Trail Laminate for now. I am also getting ready to by a new M4 AR15 so the budget is tight :) In the future I will probably get a Marauder or Corsair, they both look very nice.
Travis
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I am also new to air guns and have the npxl 725. Its awesome and have been able to get quarter quarter sized groups at 25 yards, sometimes smaller. You will also need a much better scope than what comes with the npxl's. I have a leapers 4-16 x 50 and like it waaay better than the center point. Just my 2 cents.
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Hey wildnmild1,
That is awesome, do you see it losing alot of range after 25 yrds? Just wondering how the .25 is down range?
Travis
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Well I was going to wait for the laminated stock Trail NP but P.A. had the NPXL 1100 in stock so I just ordered it. Should be a lot of fun, can't wait. I appreciate all of your helpful info guys and I am sure I will be out here soon looking for tuning\upgrade info.
Travis
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congrats man. It will be one fun day when that arrives. when you get it post some pictures bro.
Joshua A.
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Thanks Joshua,
I will do that! Pretty excited, I am looking forward to this!
I see in your signature you have a powerline 880, I wore two of those out when I was a kid, that was the last airgun that I owned, loved it though! :)
Travis
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Nice! Hope your gun is a little more ammo friendly then mine. I got a very very picky XL725. Once you get a pellet it likes you'll be set.
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Thanks Ricochet808,
I am sure it will be a good time, I think both guns look pretty awesome!
Travis
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dude, i love the 880, i have mine modded up pretty good, it barely looks like an 880 anymore. I grew up on the 880 as well. I actually have two of them now, but they are new ones. one is stock, the other one is modded. I still shoot them like crazy. you gotta love the simplicity, effectiveness and price of them. lol 45 bucks
Joshua A.