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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Drakt on April 14, 2014, 11:34:14 PM
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Hey there guys, I'm planning on buying a Condor, but I just can't decide which!
I would like the most accurate one possible, of course down the road I would upgrade parts as needed, but which one of these would be the most accurate out of the box?
AF Condor cal .25 - I like the idea of the wind bucking abilities of this caliber.
AF Condor SS cal. 22 - Would removing the turbulent air increase accuracy?
AF Condor cal .22 - Probably the most efficient due to pellet weight/barrel length.
I would feed the best pellet to each caliber (probably JSBs or Baracudas from what I've read), and search for that sweet spot in power & fill pressure.
I'm talking accuracy to about 75-100 yards... I know that's a stretch for most guns... but I'm sure you guys can help me decide!
If you think they'd all be about the same, my priorities are, in this order:
Accuracy
Power
Shot Count
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If your primary concern is accuracy, look at something other than a condor.
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If your primary concern is accuracy, look at something other than a condor.
Which rifle would you recommend me for accuracy?
The next step up would probably be an Air Arms S500/S510 but those are outside my budget >_<
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;D The .25 with 24" Barrel and full shroud is both accurate and quiet if that is what you think you want try to meet up with someone nearby that has one and see if they will let you throw some pellets down range. that is the easiest way to go if it is do able
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Accuracy at that distance is going to require power and weight on the pellet. So out of those choices I would agree, the 25 cal will have the wieght advantage over the 22, and the longer barrel will help as well. But the suggestion to find someone close and try it is the best.
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Awesome, I will try to get some range time with one to get a good feel of it.
Which pellet does your Condor like best? What size groups does it give?
Thanks!
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my Condor SS is plenty accurate, even with valve issues (that AirForce is replacing free of charge)
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I have both a Condor .25 & a Talon Pistol .25 and they could hit 454 Big Block Chevy's avatar at 70 yards. No problem. :) I am looking to get a .22 24" barrel because the Air Force is a shooting system.
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Maybe I have a different idea of accuracy than others, but the hammer smacking the valve as it floats over the barrel isn't they most accurate system.
In that price range, I'd look at a marauder or hatsan.
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AF condor 24 inch 25 cal for power and accuracy. 100 yards capable.
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I looked into the condor for the longest time and after spending hours researching it I discovered that it wasn't the gun for me, two many adjustments needed and many complaining of constant poi changes, that's why ultimately I went with a hatsan because it's the kind you set up once and shoot all day. Just my two cents.
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Drakt, tell us a little more of what you are trying to achieve. What is accuracy to you at 100yrds, is it measured in inches, 1/2", 1/4", or 1/8"? What kind of power are you looking for, what is the power for? And another question is how much do you want to spend upfront, and on backend? You can get a gun for under $2,000 already setup or buy a cheap gun and go up and over $2,000.
I have already went down the questions your are asking. I purchased a Condor SS and would highly recommend it. After getting it I suffered from the poi shifts, learned it was me not the gun. Pushing to hard on the stock(tank), gripping forearm, and twisting it resulted in that. I did not want to buy a stock so I made one, first time making a stock too. Immediately my groups shrank and it was very consistent. As far as accuracy and power, I think it offers both. I took a squirrel at 150yrds with mine, the squirrel didn't even twitch. I can do 0.39" at 75yrds.
The system is flawed; the trigger is not match grade, the safety needs a little mod, and it needs a solid stock. The hammer valve system is sketchy when considering bench rest accuracy, but I wanted it for hunting. No PCP is perfect for everyone, they each have their flaws.
So my questions was do I want a turn key setup no tinkering? What's the most important items on gun; barrel first then power plant, so which guns have good barrels? Can I get aftermarket parts or replacements easily?
This led me to a Condor SS. I am in the process of building a new stock, custom tank, and regulating the gun. I keep thinking of adding another pcp to the ranks but in the end can't justify it as I am getting everything I need from it. When I finish the regulating process I will get triple the shot count!
How's that for short. BTW airforce guns are not for some folks.
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Well, I would be very pleased with 1" at 75 yards consistently. At least sub 1 inch at 60 yards.
I want the power for hunting small game and because I know I need it to reach beyond 50 yards.
I do plan on improving the hammer, trigger and maybe even the valve.
The altaros regulator seems amazing, 5fps spread, that would certainly take care of POI changes, just gotta find the right power wheel setting for that pressure.
What can I say, I am a tinker, as long as I see results, not just for the sake of tinkering hehe
Which caliber is you Condor SS?
Whats the best pellet you've tried?
Does anyone have information for the altaros regulator on a .25 Condor??
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to run the reg you will have to run a pre-chamber (would have to be fabricated)
between the reg and valve to have enough "volume" of air to make any decent velocity.
all people ive read about that installed a reg without a pre-chamber,
have had velocity drop from 900+ to below 600 even with a 2000psi reg.
food for thought.
ive been wanting to reg mine for quite a while.
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Yeah, thats what I figured, you do see some incredibly nice numbers for .22 Condor on their website at altaros.cz, the reg is for the gunpower.
But when they move up to 25 grains it just doesnt show the same results...
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Mine is a .25 and the best accuracy is out of JSB Exact Kings 25.4 Gr, not far behind is H&N Baracuda 31 Gr. I have played around with Jerry's slugs (6 ring 62.5 gr) talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3929&start=260, I have only shot a dozen so far just to see until I get the gun setup the way I want it (sub 1" at 75yrds).
What starlingassassin says is true about a pre-chamber. For testing I used my 490cc as a pre-chamber and then fed it with regulated air via fill nipple. It worked perfectly. I am now in the process of getting a custom tank made; final volume is still undetermined 65cc to 100cc. I am making a new stock that will house a ninja regulator and 13ci tank and plumb directly into the pre-chamber.
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Condor .25 24" w/shroud or SS .25 for long range shooting. I get 1/2" at 50yds with all my Condors. I only have a polished (lighter) trigger on 1 of them, and the trigger on the others is stock, but I like them. I don't think the Condor triggers are bad at all and they all break crisply at 3-3.2lbs. I have Crosman springers and Disco with 6lb triggers so the Condor triggers is like a match trigger to me compared to those.
The JSB King 25.4gr is the most accurate, with Kodiak/Baracuda a 2nd close as others aid.
Good luck with your decision.
Harry
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i will second what only1harry said. JSB's are very accuarate but i'm slinging them too fast. Baracudas like 1000 fps :-D
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Well it does sound like the .25 Condor is able to achieve a longer range, at least the one that has the least trouble doing so.
How do you guys cope with the change in velocity across the fill up of the gun? I've seen it fluctuate by as much as 100 fps over 25 shots, and 140 psi over 34 shots, filling from 3,000 psi.
Does that affect the POI at 50 yards?
This concern is kinda why I had the idea of the regulator (which seems definitely easier for a .22).
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That is a question about how you tune the gun. You can tune it for consistency and note how many shots you get a consistent velocity at per fill. You may fill to 2700psi, not 3k. You may get 12 consistent shots from 930-950-30 and end at 2200psi. You need to spend some time with the gun and adjusting it to find out.
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That is a question about how you tune the gun. You can tune it for consistency and note how many shots you get a consistent velocity at per fill. You may fill to 2700psi, not 3k. You may get 12 consistent shots from 930-950-30 and end at 2200psi. You need to spend some time with the gun and adjusting it to find out.
That 930-50-30 sounds amazing, its the bell curve that i'm used to and provides good consistency throughout a shot string.
What do you need to modify to tune the condor into a bell curve rather than a slope?
Thanks for all your help guys, this forum is amazing and I'm learning a lot!
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i would try an o ring behind the tophat.
it works very well to mellow out the condor
i put one on mine the other day,
and using the chrono connect app on my phone it really seemed to level out the curve.
i filled to 2700psi and a power wheel setting of about 3 and got at least 20 shots at 980-995-980 with jsb kings.
but every gun is different so your setting may end up different.
but give the oring a try it really helps flatten the curve.
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What if my gun has the new spin loc tank with the manometer?
AFAIK All the top hat tricks kinda died with these tanks...
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theres nothing different about the spin loc vs non spin loc tanks,
the only difference is the addition of a gauge and foster fill nipple to the tank collar,everything else is the same on the tank.
no the tophat tricks most certainly didnt die with the new tanks.
mine is a spin loc and the oring works great ;D
did some more tuning today,
and with an o ring,
and a 2900psi fill,
power wheel just under 2,
i got 950-962-950 for 25 shots ;D im pretty happy about that,
although the baseball sized rocks i was smacking at 130yds werent as happy as i was LOL ;)
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25 shots with that small a spread is really good Chris. I have been meaning to try the o-ring behind the tophat. Is yours regular/soft rubber or polyurethane? What diameter o-ring are you using?
Harry
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25 shots with that small a spread is really good Chris. I have been meaning to try the o-ring behind the tophat. Is yours regular/soft rubber or polyurethane? What diameter o-ring are you using?
Harry
truthfully it amazed me :D
dont know if i mentioned it or not but i was shooting with jsb kings today also,
which before the oring were going 1000+fps.
the first shot was 949 on a 2900psi fill,
next 2 were 952 , 954
4th shot went 959 and then it just hovered between 959 and 962 for 21 shots,
the last 2 shots were 953 and 950.
i didnt think it would close the curve up that much but im diggin it 8) ;D
the o rings i used are the breech orings for my .22 mrod,
got em from the oring store
"009 V75 black Viton #V75009"
they look a good bit thinner than the orings ive seen other guys using on their condors,
but when they run those thick orings they have to have the preload up on 8 or 9 to get the flat curve.
but the one im using seems to work great.
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Thanks. Did you have to adjust the tophat out? Mine are in a lot (around 0.070") and I may have to adjust them to make more room for the o-ring and some more travel. Have you measured your tophat clearance?
Harry
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Thanks. Did you have to adjust the tophat out? Mine are in a lot (around 0.070") and I may have to adjust them to make more room for the o-ring and some more travel. Have you measured your tophat clearance?
Harry
have not measured or adjusted the tophat from how it came stock,
guess i just got lucky on that one ;D
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I shoot a Talon SS with an R&L hi-flo Condor valve in it with a 25 cal 18" barrel. I have shot 50 yard groups that were .31 C to C using JSB 25.4's. Also if your up for it, they can be easily converted to shoot 257 caliber slugs. Several people on the TAG have shot soda cans from 300 + yards all the way out to 600+ yards using the Condor and a 257 barrel. The favorite mold seems to be the Lyman for the 25 slugs, and there is a dedicated section to the 257 conversions, casting, and basically everything else you can think of there. I actually plan on getting a drop in 257 barrel from R&L for mine just for the extreme long range shooting. I have no problem hitting quart sized milk jugs at 100 yards free hand with a cheap Centerpoint 4-16X40 scope on my rig, so in 25 cal, they can, and are quite accurate. If you want the best setup you can get, contact Tony at Talon Tunes for one of his AAA Condors, and just tell him what you want, at what power level, and he will build it to your liking. Just my thoughts,
Casey
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interesting thread! I am currently making payments on a 24" .25 Spin Lok Condor and have $200 left to go ;D Which will be this Friday! I don't live in the States, so getting my Condor to TT would be a bit of a hassle.
I was between the choice of a .25 SynRod or .25 Condor for my first .25. I hope I made the right choice! It's for hunting mainly. When that first guy said get anything(even the milder Mrod) over a Condor for accuracy, I was a bit bummed. But hearing your guy's results got me pumped again!
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interesting thread! I am currently making payments on a 24" .25 Spin Lok Condor and have $200 left to go ;D Which will be this Friday! I don't live in the States, so getting my Condor to TT would be a bit of a hassle.
I was between the choice of a .25 SynRod or .25 Condor for my first .25. I hope I made the right choice! It's for hunting mainly. When that first guy said get anything(even the milder Mrod) over a Condor for accuracy, I was a bit bummed. But hearing your guy's results got me pumped again!
My MROD .25 was slightly more accurate than my Condor. The AirForce guns are a shooting system. I just bought a 18" .22 for my Talon Pistol just so I will not run out of pellets as fast.
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Lots of great info in the thread. I too have heard of Mrods being slightly o as accurate as Condor (both in. 25) but I would think it's more the exception than the rule, right?
The Mrod can print 1" grp at 50 yrds, but the Condor can do so at longer ranges, right?
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yes indeed a .25 with a shrouded 24in barrel is very accurate and plenty of power ,i had one and regret getting rid of her however she was very accurare i shot her out to 60 yds hitting my target everytime and for some reason those jsb kings black color tin works best in most pcps ,the skirt on those pellets are excellent and will group just fine .what i likie bout the airforce line is u could have from .177 to .25 cal thats four cals on one ag another thing u control the power from 600fps to 1200fps using different weight of pellets ,i like my stock with no tunes unless it came like that or i bought it used like that but stock has enough power tuning or altering ag would void warrenty that why i leave it alone lifetime warrenty ,great customer service ,im hoping they will one day make a repeater a 8 shot for .25 and 10 shot for .177 .20 and .22 ,like Harry said the stock trigger is good and no need to alter ,i did nothing to my stock trigger and found it accurate enough to group and enjoy ,many mods to add but imo i rather leave it stock if anything goes wrong it will be repaired but if it touched no repairs will be done by the airforce company ,great chioce in ag ..........jorge
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Thanks for the info Jorge! So pumped for my .25 Condor! I plan on a mad dog stock down the road. Probably no need for power mods for me anyways. The price of slugs are stupendous! :o Pellets fit my need and seeing some "groups" with the slugs was a let down... 1"+ at 50 yards, you've got to be kidding me.
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Hey guys, just today I had the chance to talk with someone that tunes and has tons of airgun experience.
He told me that adding just a pre chamber to an unregulated Condor makes the shot string look more like a curve than a line, what do you guys think?
He was also talking about 5cc pre chambers, as opposed to the number we're discussing here
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Thanks for the info Jorge! So pumped for my .25 Condor! I plan on a mad dog stock down the road. Probably no need for power mods for me anyways. The price of slugs are stupendous! :o Pellets fit my need and seeing some "groups" with the slugs was a let down... 1"+ at 50 yards, you've got to be kidding me.
you welcome buddy!...maddog stock nice....slugs are good for hunting but expensive i did well with jsb kings 25.39 grain they were being slung at 940fps at pw setting 4.5 plenty shots at 3000psi ...im gonna get another sometime in the near future....condors are hard hitters.....
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Well guys, made the final payment on my .25 24" Condor today so hoping to get it within a couple days!!! God the wait is killing me!!
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Well guys, made the final payment on my .25 24" Condor today so hoping to get it within a couple days!!! God the wait is eliminating me!!
Congrats, get the Windex ready. Your nose will be up to the glass worse than my avatar. :) LOL
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Thanks Jesse! Got confirmed for Wednesday delivery!!
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If noise is a problem try purchasing a r & l shroud there easy to put on or Randy will guild u (owner of store)...
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If noise is a problem try purchasing a r & l shroud there easy to put on or Randy will guild u (owner of store)...
+1 Randy is helping me now with a problem with my Talon Pistol.
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And don't forget Talon tunes, there shrouds are whisper quiet, and if you add in the hammer slap mod, all you hear is the click, and the smack of the pellet.
Casey
P.S. If your in Canada, might not be able to shroud the rifle, not sure on this one.
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Noise isn't an issue ;) ;D
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;D The .25 with 24" Barrel and full shroud is both accurate and quiet if that is what you think you want try to meet up with someone nearby that has one and see if they will let you throw some pellets down range. that is the easiest way to go if it is do able
What brand shroud? Thanks.
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;D The .25 with 24" Barrel and full shroud is both accurate and quiet if that is what you think you want try to meet up with someone nearby that has one and see if they will let you throw some pellets down range. that is the easiest way to go if it is do able
What brand shroud? Thanks.
I have a R&L shroud on my Condor, Talon Pistol, and my 18" .22 barrel. :)
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I'd like to hear opinions on the LDCs from airforcemodification vs. shrouds.
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I'd like to hear opinions on the LDCs from airforcemodification vs. shrouds.
I believe there is no functional difference just cosmetics and possible difference in overall performance
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Thanks. Any shrouds/suppressors I should consider other than the RL and the airforcemodification? I did a search here and found a lot of stuff mentioned that seems to be not made anymore or not at the link given.
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Thanks. Any shrouds/suppressors I should consider other than the RL and the airforcemodification? I did a search here and found a lot of stuff mentioned that seems to be not made anymore or not at the link given.
Contact Tony at Talon Tunes. He makes a great shroud for the Condor.
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I have discovered that there are certain legal issues with the, er, LDCs - as in some may fit the legal def. of a silencer, which are, of course, prohibited (I don't really mean to open a can of worms here). So, I think I will stick with a shroud. Will look into RL and Talon.
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I have both a Talon Tunes 6" shroud, that stays on my 18" 25 and it's very quiet. Before I acquired that I have a Bulls Eye Bill Frame Extender. I may have added a few plastic curlers and washers, but it did it's job too. Trying to tread lightly here too, but both were effective.
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My 3 Condors are 24". I use the full-size Talon Tunes shroud on one, and Airhog Shrouds on the other 2. I don't know if Airhog still makes shrouds but they are very effective and look better on the gun (like an extension of the frame) than the TT (to me anyway). Airhog is maybe 1/2 decibel "louder" than the Talon Tunes at high velocities - very very close throughout most of the range, and Airhog also cost $50 less at the time. The TT shroud is great but the OD is a bit larger than the frame, and it's also 4" longer than the Airhog. (16.5" TT vs. 12.5" Airhog). So overall I like the Airhog shroud better because 4" makes a difference when handling the gun and walking through the woods or in tight quarters like your house. But nothing wrong with the TT shroud if you don't mind the extra bulkiness (still very light) and length. Both shrouds are very effective at muzzle velocities under 1,030fps. From mid-900's to 1k fps, they have you wondering if the gun is working properly or putting out the right FPE when you are new to them. When I let the air in my .22 Condor go low one time and down to 920fps with Kodiaks when I had it only a few days with the Airhog shroud, I thought it was broken and ran to the Chrony :) All I heard was the hammer strike the valve.
Harry
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On the "LDCs" vs. shrouds, I found some updated information indicating .gov no longer will treat LDCs as [firearm] "silencers" (good news).
I've found myself vacillating on ordering a gun - between the Air Arms S500 Xtra and the Condor. Eventually I will have two - one for the wife - maybe I should buy one of each of these. :)
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On the "LDCs" vs. shrouds, I found some updated information indicating .gov no longer will treat LDCs as [firearm] "(@*#&%(*@&)" (good news).
I've found myself vacillating on ordering a gun - between the Air Arms S500 Xtra and the Condor. Eventually I will have two - one for the wife - maybe I should buy one of each of these. :)
I would go with the S510. I have a Condor, it hits hard, is accurate, but only a single shot. I do get 60 consistent shots per fill.
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On the "LDCs" vs. shrouds, I found some updated information indicating .gov no longer will treat LDCs as [firearm] "(@*#&%(*@&)" (good news).
I've found myself vacillating on ordering a gun - between the Air Arms S500 Xtra and the Condor. Eventually I will have two - one for the wife - maybe I should buy one of each of these. :)
I would go with the S510. I have a Condor, it hits hard, is accurate, but only a single shot. I do get 60 consistent shots per fill.
To be honest I don't really see myself paying the extra $200 or whatever it is for the repeater. When I used to hunt, I was always pretty much a one-shot guy. That makes you make it count.
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Use the Phillips pellet holder specifically made for the Talon/Condor that P/A sells, and you can reload your Condor in 3 to 4 secs. I only reloaded once while hunting (out of 300?) to finish off a possum with my Condor(s), and it was to end it quickly. It wasn't needed. All raccoons, groundhogs, squirrels, other possums (and fox), etc. were very quick 1-shot kills. When target shooting, you still have to cock the gun with the magazine, regain your composure, control your breathing, etc., so you are only looking at a difference of a couple of seconds between shots. It doesn't really make a difference.
Harry
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Use the Phillips pellet holder specifically made for the Talon/Condor that P/A sells, and you can reload your Condor in 3 to 4 secs. I only reloaded once while hunting (out of 300?) to finish off a possum with my Condor(s), and it was to end it quickly. It wasn't needed. All raccoons, groundhogs, squirrels, other possums (and fox), etc. were very quick 1-shot kills. When target shooting, you still have to cock the gun with the magazine, regain your composure, control your breathing, etc., so you are only looking at a difference of a couple of seconds between shots. It doesn't really make a difference.
Harry
What he said ;D I have a 6" Talon Tunes shroud on my 18", and the pellet holder mentioned, almost as fast as my M-Rod to reload, but a lot more power. And at the current tunes, still maneuverable but plenty of ump depending on which tank, and pellet / bullet combo.
Casey