GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: dw on March 19, 2014, 10:09:37 AM
-
Guys,
Just got my Hatsan 1000x Striker Vortex back from HatsanUSA after warranty service. After 800 shots, pellets were getting stuck in the barrel, and sometime I'd have to recock and fire 5 times to get the pellet dislodged. Turns out the Vortex piston had failed and lost pressure, the tech thought maybe contaminants had degraded the seal on the gas piston, so they replaced it.
My question is, when I get my next air rifle, should I bother getting the gas piston? Are they really more durable? Do they really require less maintenance/attention? I hope I get a lot more than 800 shots out of my new Vortex piston. I'm guessing the average conventional spring must last for thousands of rounds. I have found the Vortex gun very nice to shoot, prior to its recent misbehavior. It's 30 years since I fired a conventional spring air rifle, so hard for me to remember whether the difference in shooting behavior between a gas piston and conventional spring is that great.
Thanks for your input.
Dennis
-
Dennis, the gas in a gas spring will leak out over time, but it should take a L-O-N-G time. It's about the same as the gas spring that holds the trunk of your car open, so I'm talking years. They are commonly used in industrial applications for tens of thousands of cycles. Not all are perfect and you may have started out with one which was less than perfect.
I suspect you know about the double recoil of a spring. Gas pistons share that characteristic. Springs act in a third direction that gas springs do not. There is a torque involved when they rapidly uncoil when they are fired. Gas pistons do not have this twisting.
Gas pistons are more expensive to replace than a spring but replacement should be required less often.
-
The beauty of the vortex gas piston is it can be repaired. You don't need to replace with a new one. You can also adjust the pressure to your liking. Just like a theoben gas ram.
-
The beauty of the vortex gas piston is it can be repaired. You don't need to replace with a new one. You can also adjust the pressure to your liking. Just like a theoben gas ram.
hello I am new here and have a vortex 125 sneer in.22 can you tell me how it is adjustable and what is accomplished? Thanks john
-
Adjustment is accomplished by increasing or decreasing the amount of pressure in the gas spring itself. Generally they are charged with dry nitrogen. There are undoubtedly special fittings involved and your garage air compressor will not have adequate pressure.
-
Well, kinda. The Vortex are filled with air, not nitrogen. And you can use the fill probe from the Hatsan pcp guns, and a source of high pressure air like a carbon fiber or scuba tank, to fill the ram to whatever psi (or bar) you want (150 bar is max). So if you have pcp fill gear, and get the probe, then you can alter the pressure within the ram to whatever you want. Some might like a "de-tune" at a lower pressure, while others might want to max it out, or even over-max it. The Theoben mentioned were notorious for guys overfilling the pressure to levels that the ram wasn't intended for. Just like when we were kids and pumped our Benji 312's over the 8 pump limit (how much weight we could put on the pump handle was the limit), we just had to have a little more power even if it destroyed the workings of the powerplant.
-
Every time I see Gas ram Hatsan mentioned I have to remind myself that I have (nearly) enough air rifles.
Is the Vortex gas ram an aftermarket conversion; they don't appear on the Hatsan web page.
Gas rams are not common here, in fact rare but starting to appear.
I have shot the Gamo IGT Shadow and would not even consider that as a prospective purchase. The other one was a Chinese made Benjamin NP. It might have been an acceptable rifle but the trigger was so bad one could not tell if the rest was any good.
Setting aside the odd gas piston that might be defective; how good are the Vortex Gas ram rifles.
That is a vaque question that deserves a fuzzy answer so let's go with - can I buy a vortex gas ram to put in my Hatsan mod 99 and find out for myself.
-
Yes you can, and the difference is 100 %! Awesome change and yes you should. :)
-
Hey AudiS4,
Where can I buy a Vortex gas ram for one of my Hatsan 95's? I live in Washington State.
Did you do the replacement yourself or did you take your 95 to a gunsmith?
If you did it yourself, what tips can you offer?
Thanks,
Kirk
-
On this topic, I am looking into purchasing an air rifle, and the Hatsan 95 is one of my top contenders. Would you guys suggest I buy the 95 and decide if I want to upgrade later, or should I buy a Hatsan model with the Vortex gas ram already installed? If I chose that option I'd probably be looking at getting a Hatsan Striker 1000x Vortex because its wood furniture and specs are comparable to the 95. Which is a better option?
-
Hey AudiS4,
Where can I buy a Vortex gas ram for one of my Hatsan 95's? I live in Washington State.
Did you do the replacement yourself or did you take your 95 to a gunsmith?
If you did it yourself, what tips can you offer?
Thanks,
Kirk
I've only found one place to buy a Vortex gas ram—a Polish website.
Unfortunately, when awkwardly trying to place my order, I found out that they do not export to the US.
Via Google Translate: "Shop does not perform contracts for the country or any method of delivery does not meet the criteria. Contact the store to place an order."
-
Try Hatsan USA, if you haven't already.
-
On this topic, I am looking into purchasing an air rifle, and the Hatsan 95 is one of my top contenders. Would you guys suggest I buy the 95 and decide if I want to upgrade later, or should I buy a Hatsan model with the Vortex gas ram already installed? If I chose that option I'd probably be looking at getting a Hatsan Striker 1000x Vortex because its wood furniture and specs are comparable to the 95. Which is a better option?
pyramyd is advertising the model 95 with vortex on their new products page
-
On this topic, I am looking into purchasing an air rifle, and the Hatsan 95 is one of my top contenders. Would you guys suggest I buy the 95 and decide if I want to upgrade later, or should I buy a Hatsan model with the Vortex gas ram already installed? If I chose that option I'd probably be looking at getting a Hatsan Striker 1000x Vortex because its wood furniture and specs are comparable to the 95. Which is a better option?
pyramyd is advertising the model 95 with vortex on their new products page
Thanks but a little too late... Already got my 95 springer and I'm quite happy with it :D
I figure I can always buy a Vortex gas ram later on if I so choose.
-
Guys,
Just got my Hatsan 1000x Striker Vortex back from HatsanUSA after warranty service. After 800 shots, pellets were getting stuck in the barrel, and sometime I'd have to recock and fire 5 times to get the pellet dislodged. Turns out the Vortex piston had failed and lost pressure, the tech thought maybe contaminants had degraded the seal on the gas piston, so they replaced it.
My question is, when I get my next air rifle, should I bother getting the gas piston? Are they really more durable? Do they really require less maintenance/attention? I hope I get a lot more than 800 shots out of my new Vortex piston. I'm guessing the average conventional spring must last for thousands of rounds. I have found the Vortex gun very nice to shoot, prior to its recent misbehavior. It's 30 years since I fired a conventional spring air rifle, so hard for me to remember whether the difference in shooting behavior between a gas piston and conventional spring is that great.
Thanks for your input.
Dennis
Dennis I have got thru possible three rams under warrentie. no stuck pellets yet but yes the fps drops off two quick.
-
For aftermarket gam rams. Mike Ellingworth recommends the short stroke Benjamin NP replacement. It is readily available. It is suggested that the Hatsan ram be boosted. My understanding is that the rifle shoots best at 135 bar, 150 bar is max.
Changing a broken spring in a rifle is easy, changing a gas ram, I have no idea...
-Y
-
Guys,
Just got my Hatsan 1000x Striker Vortex back from HatsanUSA after warranty service. After 800 shots, pellets were getting stuck in the barrel, and sometime I'd have to recock and fire 5 times to get the pellet dislodged. Turns out the Vortex piston had failed and lost pressure, the tech thought maybe contaminants had degraded the seal on the gas piston, so they replaced it.
My question is, when I get my next air rifle, should I bother getting the gas piston? Are they really more durable? Do they really require less maintenance/attention? I hope I get a lot more than 800 shots out of my new Vortex piston. I'm guessing the average conventional spring must last for thousands of rounds. I have found the Vortex gun very nice to shoot, prior to its recent misbehavior. It's 30 years since I fired a conventional spring air rifle, so hard for me to remember whether the difference in shooting behavior between a gas piston and conventional spring is that great.
Thanks for your input.
Dennis
Dennis I have got thru possible three rams under warrentie. no stuck pellets yet but yes the fps drops off two quick.
It doesn't make any since how you can be the only person out there that has gone through that many Vortex pistons. I have a hard time believing that you have such bad luck, I have a feeling you are doing something you are not suppose to be doing with the rifle to cause that many failures.
-
On this topic, I am looking into purchasing an air rifle, and the Hatsan 95 is one of my top contenders. Would you guys suggest I buy the 95 and decide if I want to upgrade later, or should I buy a Hatsan model with the Vortex gas ram already installed? If I chose that option I'd probably be looking at getting a Hatsan Striker 1000x Vortex because its wood furniture and specs are comparable to the 95. Which is a better option?
I see you already purchased a 95 Vortex but for others who are wondering about the Striker:
I have a Hatsan Striker 1000x Vortex with wood stock and like it very much. It has the same power and is extremely accurate like the Hatsan 95 but is at least a pound lighter. The only negative is the trigger, which is pretty bad. However I have learned to adjust to it while I wait for Woodfield GCP to make a new batch of their "Welsh Willy" replacement triggers for the Striker, which should be at the end of this month. http://woodfield-gcp.co.uk/?product=welsh-willy-trigger-wwtii-3 (http://woodfield-gcp.co.uk/?product=welsh-willy-trigger-wwtii-3)
-
On this topic, I am looking into purchasing an air rifle, and the Hatsan 95 is one of my top contenders. Would you guys suggest I buy the 95 and decide if I want to upgrade later, or should I buy a Hatsan model with the Vortex gas ram already installed? If I chose that option I'd probably be looking at getting a Hatsan Striker 1000x Vortex because its wood furniture and specs are comparable to the 95. Which is a better option?
I see you already purchased a 95 Vortex but for others who are wondering about the Striker:
I have a Hatsan Striker 1000x Vortex with wood stock and like it very much. It has the same power and is extremely accurate like the Hatsan 95 but is at least a pound lighter. The only negative is the trigger, which is pretty bad. However I have learned to adjust to it while I wait for Woodfield GCP to make a new batch of their "Welsh Willy" replacement triggers for the Striker, which should be at the end of this month. http://woodfield-gcp.co.uk/?product=welsh-willy-trigger-wwtii-3 (http://woodfield-gcp.co.uk/?product=welsh-willy-trigger-wwtii-3)
I take it that the "Welsh Willy" trigger for the 1000X is a different one than what is shown in that link? That one looks to be the same as the GRTIII and it doesn't show as fitting the Hatsan. ???
Thanks!
Ed
-
[/quote]
I take it that the "Welsh Willy" trigger for the 1000X is a different one than what is shown in that link? That one looks to be the same as the GRTIII and it doesn't show as fitting the Hatsan. ???
Thanks!
Ed
[/quote]
I think Welsh Willy has not made the trigger for the Striker yet but assume when he does it will be added to the list in his website. I believe it is called the HST trigger (for Hatsan Striker Trigger). I have written Will to learn what the status is and hope to hear from him soon. In the meantime I'll keep checking the website for the addition of the HST..
Kevin
-
I have a Hatsan Striker 1000x Vortex with wood stock and like it very much. It has the same power and is extremely accurate like the Hatsan 95 but is at least a pound lighter. The only negative is the trigger, which is pretty bad. However I have learned to adjust to it while I wait for Woodfield GCP to make a new batch of their "Welsh Willy" replacement triggers for the Striker, which should be at the end of this month. http://woodfield-gcp.co.uk/?product=welsh-willy-trigger-wwtii-3 (http://woodfield-gcp.co.uk/?product=welsh-willy-trigger-wwtii-3)
Should have gotten the 95 Votex ;D.
The quattro trigger is not half bad. Weight is moderate, cocking effort is moderate, accuracy is pretty good, trigger not half bad. Money well spent!
-Y
-
No actually I should not have gotten the Hatsan 95, which weighs about a full POUND more than the Striker. In the Striker I got a relatively lightweight and extremely accurate and handsome rifle for a very good price, and with an upgraded trigger it will be exactly what I was looking for (which was not a Hatsan 95).
-
Guys,
Just got my Hatsan 1000x Striker Vortex back from HatsanUSA after warranty service. After 800 shots, pellets were getting stuck in the barrel, and sometime I'd have to recock and fire 5 times to get the pellet dislodged. Turns out the Vortex piston had failed and lost pressure, the tech thought maybe contaminants had degraded the seal on the gas piston, so they replaced it.
My question is, when I get my next air rifle, should I bother getting the gas piston? Are they really more durable? Do they really require less maintenance/attention? I hope I get a lot more than 800 shots out of my new Vortex piston. I'm guessing the average conventional spring must last for thousands of rounds. I have found the Vortex gun very nice to shoot, prior to its recent misbehavior. It's 30 years since I fired a conventional spring air rifle, so hard for me to remember whether the difference in shooting behavior between a gas piston and conventional spring is that great.
Thanks for your input.
Dennis
hahaha My Hatsan 135 had been one of the first Hatsan USA coverterd to Vortex Gas Ram while under a main spring failure of over 4000 shots 6-8 months into warrentie. reason for all them shots was scope keep failing and I keep replacing them some 13 in all. Back to the Vortex ram it also failed in short order after getting a scope to hold point. and the gun was returned total of 4 times now the 5 time all ready. They are claiming its is the pellet I shoot in the 22 caliber. Interesting is I aways get very tight groups on paper out to 22 yards and on trees out to 72 yards. No complaints on accuracy of the gun and the power with srping stayed up until the spring failed. Sorry to say with the ram not so. even though I had the latest version install by Hatsan last april I got the gun back and it shot very hard and well with 200 shots speed dropped of 160+ fps so its back in the box. I will see if hatsan will fix it free or not this time. I expect them to. to keep up good company P.R.
-
Guys,
Just got my Hatsan 1000x Striker Vortex back from HatsanUSA after warranty service. After 800 shots, pellets were getting stuck in the barrel, and sometime I'd have to recock and fire 5 times to get the pellet dislodged. Turns out the Vortex piston had failed and lost pressure, the tech thought maybe contaminants had degraded the seal on the gas piston, so they replaced it.
My question is, when I get my next air rifle, should I bother getting the gas piston? Are they really more durable? Do they really require less maintenance/attention? I hope I get a lot more than 800 shots out of my new Vortex piston. I'm guessing the average conventional spring must last for thousands of rounds. I have found the Vortex gun very nice to shoot, prior to its recent misbehavior. It's 30 years since I fired a conventional spring air rifle, so hard for me to remember whether the difference in shooting behavior between a gas piston and conventional spring is that great.
Thanks for your input.
Dennis
hahaha My Hatsan 135 had been one of the first Hatsan USA coverterd to Vortex Gas Ram while under a main spring failure of over 4000 shots 6-8 months into warrentie. reason for all them shots was scope keep failing and I keep replacing them some 13 in all. Back to the Vortex ram it also failed in short order after getting a scope to hold point. and the gun was returned total of 4 times now the 5 time all ready. They are claiming its is the pellet I shoot in the 22 caliber. Interesting is I aways get very tight groups on paper out to 22 yards and on trees out to 72 yards. No complaints on accuracy of the gun and the power with srping stayed up until the spring failed. Sorry to say with the ram not so. even though I had the latest version install by Hatsan last april I got the gun back and it shot very hard and well with 200 shots speed dropped of 160+ fps so its back in the box. I will see if hatsan will fix it free or not this time. I expect them to. to keep up good company P.R.
Wow. I keep considering picking up a Hatsan, probably a 95 Vortex but posts like this make me think twice (2,3 + times?). I have 3 AGs now, all Benji/Crosman and no problems with any of them with lots of use. I also feel confident that if I do have a problem Crosman CS is top rate.
Ed
-
Just to chime in with my experience: I have a Striker 1000X Vortex and it still shoots great after about 250 shots. Very accurate and powerful. So far so good..
-
Just to chime in with my experience: I have a Striker 1000X Vortex and it still shoots great after about 250 shots. Very accurate and powerful. So far so good..
Good to hear but 250 rounds ain't really a whole bunch. I'd actually lean more to the Striker because of the lighter weight but I want a good trigger & I see no indication of a Welsh Willy showing up anytime soon. I have no idea why I need another AG anyway, guess I'm hooked. ;)
Ed
-
Unfortunately there wont be any Welsh Willy triggers for the Striker - Will says it has to do with the sear spring being too weak on the factory trigger assembly. I certainly don't love the factory trigger but I'm getting used to it and can shoot the rifle well in spite of it.
If Hatsan put a great trigger in the Striker they would sell a LOT of them I do believe...
-
G'day Dennis,
Vortex or Nitro Pistons and others, will last you long enough to know that you've got your money's worth out of them, but not because of the power.
There's two reasons that I can think of right now, why I have 4 rifles with gas pistons.
1. The Gas Pistons do not cause the rifle to torque in your hands as a spring does. This torquing of the rifle is not noticeable but is cause by the spring tightening up; which makes the spring turn slightly. When you pull the trigger, that unwinding happens very rapidly and torques the rifle.
2. If you use your gas piston for hunting, you will notice one very important advantage over a spring piston. Let me explain:
a. I have a Beeman [German made] R-10 .22 cal springer and I used to hunt with it. I'd sit in a blind or by a bush or tree, waiting for my quarry to come by. I'd cock that rifle as I waited, and eventually I weakened the spring so much that I ended up breaking it and destroying the seal.
b. I stripped the rifle down and found that the spring [in two pieces] had corkscrewed into itself and also my seal had a split on two sides, where it smashed into the front of the cylinder.
WHAT ADVANTAGE YOU GET WITH A GAS SPRING IS THIS:
a. The piston does not torque as it's fired. This helps to guarantee that if you do it right and consistantly, you will have a more accurate result.
b. The gas piston also can be cocked and held that way for hours, because it's pressure is made by compressing an inert gas [usually Nitrogen].
Releasing that compressed gas will have the same power after two or more hours as it would if you fired it immediately after cocking.
I've never seen a gas piston leak slowly, but that doesn't mean it won't. NEVER LEAVE ANY GAS OR SPRING PISTON COCKED WHILE IN STORAGE. That's just common sense.
Hope that answers your question Dennis.
Cheers.
Vernon