GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: flangster on March 12, 2014, 08:52:22 PM
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I got my pellet trap set up yesterday and started testing pellets in my Beeman R9. I can't explain yet what it likes (that is: some 7.0 grain pellets fine, others not so much).
Best groups at 75 feet are the JSB Exact 8.44 grain at .523 center to center. I have fewer than 500 pellets down the barrel of this thing. I can't wait to see how it shoots when it is broken in. I chose 75 feet because that turns out to be the distance to my barn from my back porch, now that I have measured it. I would have called it 60 feet -- just shows you what I know. The other pellets were:
RWS Hobby 7.0 grain: 0.739 inches
Crossman 10.5 grain: 0.660 inches
Crossman 7.9 grain: 0.979 inches
The R9 also really liked Beeman Kodiak Match 10.5 grain, but I was shooting at a steel gong, and can't measure the c-t-c impacts.
RWS pistol 7.0 grain were all over the place, though. And oddly the Avanti 7.0 had some vertical stringing. Shooting was all prone off a mat with a Caldwell bag in front.
OK -- the questions:
Some very light Gamo no-lead pellets sounded like a .22 LR -- do they break the sound barrier or were they just smacking the heck out of the bullet trap?
Temp was about 36F yesterday. How cold is "cold" in terms of the effect on a springer like the R9?
How many rounds to break in a barrel/action like this?
I have read that "smoke" at the seal is evidence of dieseling and that Goo Gone is the preferred antidote. True? Affect on accuracy?
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Welcome bro!!
First off....forget the really light stuff!! That crack is NOT good!!
Stick with mid weights....7.8 ~ 8.6.
I have a 98 and this rifle is silly accurate with Crossman Premier Lights, 7.9, and H&N Field Target Trophy in 4.52 head size.
Extremely accurate gun that will just get better and better!!
What scope do you have on it??
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Some very light Gamo no-lead pellets sounded like a .22 LR -- do they break the sound barrier or were they just smacking the heck out of the bullet trap?
Pellets that are too light aren't good for the spring just like pellets that are too heavy. I recently tuned a .177 R9 for a fellow and the pre tune velocity with a 7.9 grain CPL from a die lot marked box was 905ish which is pretty fast. I'm betting that if you're using light weight "trick pellets" you are indeed breaking the sound barrier, plus subjecting the internals to excess stress. I have shot 7.33 grain grain AA pellets from my R9 and they did work well, however with my particular R9 I got better accuracy with the die lot marked 1250 count boxed 7.9 grain Crosman Premiers. Here's a target I shot at 50 yards when comparing the accuracy of a couple different brands of pellets after a home tune that reduced the CPL velocity to about 850fps........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airgun%20Targets/Target6_5_2011-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airgun%20Targets/Target6_5_2011-1.jpg.html)
Notice the CPL group in the upper left corner of the target (the "boxes" are 1" square).
Temp was about 36F yesterday. How cold is "cold" in terms of the effect on a springer like the R9?
IMHO.......36F is perfectly good for shooting a .177 R9. LOL.....I've shot some field target matches when the morning sight-in was during snow flurries! The only issue I've had with shooting was when the morning was about 30F colder than it was in the afternoon. With such temperature differential I've found that the poi might shift due to changes in lube viscosity, piston seal durometer hardness, and simply the fact that a piston gun does react to differences in air density.
How many rounds to break in a barrel/action like this?
Break-in is a function of the moving mating parts "seatin' in" with use and basically burnishing the parts together. My last R9 I bought was "home tuned" straight from the box because I don't take the time for the parts to "wear together" and straight from the box it was a rather rough cocker and twanged considerably, but I do know that after a 1250 count box of CPL the untuned R9s I've bought smoothed up considerably!
I have read that "smoke" at the seal is evidence of dieseling and that Goo Gone is the preferred antidote. True? Affect on accuracy?
Well.....I have a different opinion! The R9s are COPIOUSLY lubed with greas from the factory and some of this grease gets in front of the piston seal to be "diesel fuel" till the excess gets burned off. Here is a pic of a HW97 piston seal pulled from the gun showing grease in front of the seal............
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airgun%20Mods/Piston/HW97Piston.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airgun%20Mods/Piston/HW97Piston.jpg.html)
Here is a piston pulled from a recent R9 tune showing this factory grease.......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airgun%20Mods/Piston/R9b.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airgun%20Mods/Piston/R9b.jpg.html)
It's this grease that's burning and giving the "smoking barrel" after the shot.
GooGone is used by some folks for cleaning a dirty bore by putting it on a cloth patch and pulling it through the bore followed by dry patches.
Hope this helps some!
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Thanks for the straight dope folks. What kind of accuracy can you expect from a springer like an R9 at 50 yards? Would love to get the same accuracy as my CZ's.
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Thanks for the straight dope folks. What kind of accuracy can you expect from a springer like an R9 at 50 yards? Would love to get the same accuracy as my CZ's.
I'm happy with 1" ctc at 50 yards but do occasionally get a 1/2"er. Here are a few target pics shot hunter class field target style sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks in a light variable breeze. The squares on the paper target are 1"x1".........
Here is a 5 shot group that's about 1" wide x perhaps 5/8" high.......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Field%20Target/KrytoxVAC50Y1_29_2013.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Field%20Target/KrytoxVAC50Y1_29_2013.jpg.html)
The next 5 shots on paper gave a similar grouping........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airgun%20Targets/Windy50yGroup12_20_12.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airgun%20Targets/Windy50yGroup12_20_12.jpg.html)
here are 175 consecutive shots from 10 yards to 50 yards when I was checking out the trajectory of the pellet with a 30 yard zero from my .177 R9........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airgun%20Targets/Target9_08_10.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airgun%20Targets/Target9_08_10.jpg.html)
LOL.....this target shows the effect of shooter fatigue plus the very rare need to readjust the barrel pivot bolt. While most are not PCP quality groups I'm content with them for my R9 and the target did accomplish what I intended........get a handle on the pellet trajectory.
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This is what accuracy you should achieve at your barn distance of 25 yards.
http://www.airgunweb.com/2010/11/beeman-r9-177-w-leapers-4-16x50-ao-md-ir-scope/ (http://www.airgunweb.com/2010/11/beeman-r9-177-w-leapers-4-16x50-ao-md-ir-scope/)
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This is what accuracy you should achieve at your barn distance of 25 yards.
http://www.airgunweb.com/2010/11/beeman-r9-177-w-leapers-4-16x50-ao-md-ir-scope/ (http://www.airgunweb.com/2010/11/beeman-r9-177-w-leapers-4-16x50-ao-md-ir-scope/)
Interesting, that report was done in 2010 and it seems that perhaps the R9 was being transitioned from "old style parts" to "new style parts". For example, my particular .177 R9 had the new design cocking shoe and a linerless piston, yet it also had the old design "thin parachute" piston seal that I didn't like too much. Here is a pic of "old style" piston seals and the one on the left is the one that came with my latest .177 R9 that had a linerless piston..........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airgun%20Mods/Piston%20Cap/HWPistonSeals.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airgun%20Mods/Piston%20Cap/HWPistonSeals.jpg.html)
Here is a pic of the HW95 piston with new style piston seal and piston liner that I bought last fall and so far it works as good as the oring sealed piston caps I used to cut for replacing the "old style" piston seals .......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airgun%20Mods/Piston/HW95PistonJan24_2004a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airgun%20Mods/Piston/HW95PistonJan24_2004a.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airgun%20Mods/Piston/HW95PistonJan24_2004b.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airgun%20Mods/Piston/HW95PistonJan24_2004b.jpg.html)
Here is the pic of the breech end of the barrel that was posted.......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airguns/beeman-r9-07.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airguns/beeman-r9-07.jpg.html)
This is the "old style" barrel pivot block and here is a pic of the "new style" barrel pivot block of my R9 that came with the "old style" piston..........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airguns/NewR9Breech.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airguns/NewR9Breech.jpg.html)
I don't know if any of this really matters but I found it interesting and I personally prefer ALL the new R9 mechanical changes over the earlier versions! Oh, by the way, at 25 yards my .177 R9 is also pretty accurate even when shooting while sittin' on a bucket restin' the gun on cross sticks ;D..........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Airgun%20Targets/FlySplat.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Airgun%20Targets/FlySplat.jpg.html)
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Welcome bro!!
First off....forget the really light stuff!! That crack is NOT good!!
Stick with mid weights....7.8 ~ 8.6.
I have a 98 and this rifle is silly accurate with Crossman Premier Lights, 7.9, and H&N Field Target Trophy in 4.52 head size.
Extremely accurate gun that will just get better and better!!
What scope do you have on it??
Sounds like good advice. Do you mean "crack" like the report from a rifle, or "crack" like the bad, bad drug? I actually opted for PyramidAir's package deal, so the R9 is wearing a Burris Crossfire II. Since it was a first air rifle, I didn't want to solve multiple out of the box problems; I just wanted to shoot it. Lazy? Yes, but the scope works fine and arrived mounted and reasonably close to zero.
@AudiS4: now _that_ is something to shoot for. When I can produce groups like that, a beverage of your choice is on me. My barrel seal is definitely "new style."
I also have a sampler pellet pack to work through.
Odd followup: I got a tin of .35 caliber pellets in error from PyramidAir -- called them and they won't take 'em back. Can anyone use these? How do you find someone who can shoot these to pass them on to?
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The supersonic "crack" from your rifle indicated the pellet was too lite for your application. The 7.9g pellet would be as lite as I would go in your rifle.
The 7.9 Crosman Premier HOLLOW Point pellets (CPHPs), that you buy in tins (like at Wmart), are not nearly as consistent, as the Crosman Premier Domes 7.9g box of 1,250 pellets. The Boxed Premiers are very good Dome pellets, and all come from the same die set. It does make a difference. The JSB Exacts you used are also good pellets.
Using the "Heavy" 10g+ pellets is your choice,,,but,,, it is much harder on your spring and seal...damage can happen quickly. It's a personal choice as to how many times you want to replace them. I'm sure you can find a good match between 7.9-9.0g pellets that are available. The Crosman Premiers & JSB Exacts are good ones.
Good Luck and Enjoy ;)
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You should clean/stripdown the barrel when you first get it, and again, after 500 shots, just to get all the residual junk. After that it'll really start breaking in. If accuracy starts changing, then do a little cleanup, but not a stripdown.
A citric cleaner will do the trick, (avoid petroleum based gun cleaners as there's no carbon buildup with airguns...and they attack rubber seals), and pull some damp patches thru it until clean. Pull from the breech to the muzzle and follow up with a few dry patches. A simple patch puller can be easily made from weedwacker line. There's bunches of instructions on making one.
Again...Enjoy! ;)
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I got my pellet trap set up yesterday and started testing pellets in my Beeman R9. I can't explain yet what it likes (that is: some 7.0 grain pellets fine, others not so much).
Best groups at 75 feet are the JSB Exact 8.44 grain at .523 center to center. I have fewer than 500 pellets down the barrel of this thing. I can't wait to see how it shoots when it is broken in. I chose 75 feet because that turns out to be the distance to my barn from my back porch, now that I have measured it. I would have called it 60 feet -- just shows you what I know. The other pellets were:
RWS Hobby 7.0 grain: 0.739 inches
Crossman 10.5 grain: 0.660 inches
Crossman 7.9 grain: 0.979 inches
The R9 also really liked Beeman Kodiak Match 10.5 grain, but I was shooting at a steel gong, and can't measure the c-t-c impacts.
RWS pistol 7.0 grain were all over the place, though. And oddly the Avanti 7.0 had some vertical stringing. Shooting was all prone off a mat with a Caldwell bag in front.
OK -- the questions:
Some very light Gamo no-lead pellets sounded like a .22 LR -- do they break the sound barrier or were they just smacking the heck out of the bullet trap?
Temp was about 36F yesterday. How cold is "cold" in terms of the effect on a springer like the R9?
How many rounds to break in a barrel/action like this?
I have read that "smoke" at the seal is evidence of dieseling and that Goo Gone is the preferred antidote. True? Affect on accuracy?
First off welcome to the German Club! Great little rifles those R9's! The Gamo Gimmick Ammo you refer to..............throw it away! In fact, throw it in the deepest ocean you can find! That stuff is junk< just one airgunner's opinion but I see Joe see's it like me too!
In a .177 I would look to a 8.5 grain or slightly heavier. I like middle of the road as a starting point and hardly ever go down from there.
I would look to a JSB Exact domed pellet as a everyday shooter. In fact a 8.4 grain Diablo Match would be my begin point and more than likely my end unless it grouped horribly.
So try that pellet and report back. Yes if the gun is new or freshly tuned it could have some what I call dieseling or cracking. So many terms to describe this but if you wipe the transfer port area and run a dry patch through the barrel this should cease quickly. If you ever chrony during this happening your numbers will be way skewed as well.
So good luck and welcome aboard!
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First pic....50 yard 10 shot group. Benched with a front bag rest. CPLs with a 6.5-20x42 scope on 14 mag.
Second.....30 yard 5 shot group.
This rifle is a laser!!! Very consistent numbers also.
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First pic....50 yard 10 shot group. Benched with a front bag rest. CPLs with a 6.5-20x42 scope on 14 mag.
Second.....30 yard 5 shot group.
This rifle is a laser!!! Very consistent numbers also.
You sir are a MUCH better shot than I! Thanks for sharing!
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There is NO way I am doing that off sticks Ed!!
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Mine loves beeman fts with the copper coating, although Ed just went through it so when I get it back, I'll test again and probably start with cpl in the box. When I do my part it was one ragged hole at 25 yards before the tune. 50 yards opens up quite a bit, but that's more about me than the gun. I expect it will be much the same after but without the twang it had.
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Definitely give the CPLs a try!! After reading many of Ed's posts on the subject I gave them a try....now they're all I shoot out of my 98. I have to seat them as they fit tightly, but they are extremely accurate!!
Mine sends them down range at an avg of 940.