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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: stevemag on March 01, 2014, 09:09:27 AM
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I know a lot of hammerli 850 refurbs were bought last week or so. I received mine in .22.
Mine came with a magazine without the o ring and the rear sight broken . After a few emails back and forth with no luck I sent a pm to Scott here on gta and he got right on the ball and I should have a sight and magazine here soon.
I put a scope on her in the meantime and found an oring for the magazine so she's up and running.
Perhaps I was just expecting too much after all the rave reviews,
I have a qb78 that shoots several pellets well and shoots super domes under a 1/4" at 10 yards.
I was expecting the 850 to do better, if not at least the same.
So far I've found one pellet that shoots as well. Most pellets performed badly, 1/2 to 1" at 10 yards.
I get just about 150 shots from 1 88 gram cartridge
Power is just about equal to my 78 , but ill chrony it tonight.
The stock. Smallish, and kinda skinny, at least the butt stuck is to me, the combs not high enuff even with my low rings and 32mm scope.
Bolt functions smooth and the trigger is very nice, a little long but light, i haven't done any adjusting to it(assuming I can)
I'll do some more testing of pellets today if I have any more types, did about a dozen,
All in all I'd say it's a good alternative to a 78 . Except on 88 gram cartridges it cost twice as much to run it.
I always found with my 78 that if i wait 30+ secs between shots my groups really tighten up. Seemed to help a little with the 850 as well, although that kinda defeats the purpose of this multi shot repeater.
I'll post a pick or 2 later.
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Mine likes RWS Super H Points , check out the 850 store on the yellow
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I think I have some of those, I will try them today.
If I decide it's a keeper I think I'll have to bottle feed it and put in the heavier hammer spring. Just to give it an edge on the 78.
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I have one in .177(non-refurb) and I shoot it all the time. I kept mine stock (maybe 8 or 7 fpe) and she has no problem picking off pigeons @ 40 yds. Try shooting JSB's
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You're gonna like the 850, ... I enjoyed it right out of the box, it was shooting low 600's at the time. - After I sent it to the 850 Store for a tune, (and tune only) - now low 700's and dead-nuts on. ... If you can do it I would strongly recommend a tune at the store - you won't regret it. ... So far as pellets - who knows, I took second place in a winter pellet league shooting these.
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https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-arms-falcon-22-cal-5-52mm-13-43-grains-domed-500ct?p=716 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-arms-falcon-22-cal-5-52mm-13-43-grains-domed-500ct?p=716)
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it seems to be EXTREMELY pellet fussy. it may be a deal breaker for me. i could see 1/2 groups on average at 10 yards, with a few that shoot very well. but this is shooting 1 pellet at 3/8 and the rest at 1-1.5" i feel that an air gun should at least be able to hit a soda can at 25 yards with just about any pellet . but so far this gun hates everything but one jsb pellet.
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I picked up a new one for my FIL last year and on his when you cock the bolt it will hang up as you push forward unless you put downward pressure on the handle. It hang so badly that you have to use excessive force to push it forward unless you put some downward pressure on the handle.
My FIL shoots it so little he is OK with this. If it were mine I would tear it apart to see what is hanging up in there.
If my memory is correct his shoots 22 cal CPH's at around 650 fps.
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I haven't found the 850 to be fussy at all, - CHP shoot pretty good too and another one I don't recall at the moment. - For the money involved - tops imo.
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the general rule of thumb for pretty much every purchase i have ever made of anything...if there is one out there that not worthy, i'm gonna get it.
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I bought a .22 cal 850 about a year ago. I proceeded to take it apart to make a few changes, and just check things in general. The only real problem for me was that the barrel had a dent in the bore that you could feel when pushing a pellet through it. The dent was at the muzzle end right bellow one of the front sight screws. I called Umarex and sent the barrel to them. After they inspected it they said they would send a replacement N/c..I asked them to check the replacement barrel before they shipped it, no problem we'll bore scope it prior to shipping. A few weeks later the new barrel arrived...complete with front and rear sights, and the same dent in the bore that the OEM had. At that point I just cut the barrel at the obstruction, and re-crowned it. I did however send a pic of the very visible dent in the bore to Umarex they agreed that it was n/g and offered to send another...if I paid for it.
The punch line..if you have the same bore dent, it just may be the cause of pellet pickyness.
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chronyed it tonight. 625fps with 14.35 grain jsb pellets
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I bought an 850 NEW about three years back and converted it to hpa. It shot JSB's with quarter groups at 30-40 yards. Very consistent. I liked it so much I bought another one which was used after I sold the first one. I will convert it to hpa as well.
Gene
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have about 300 pellets through it so far. i wonder if having it tuned at the 850 store will improve accuracy? if so its worth the investment to me. i was jst hoping this would be a very impressive shooter. it IS fun though.
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my 850 was a refurb,still is,lol.anyway darn thing loves the cheap pellets i bought from mike melick,and the cheap tech force, 22 cal pellets,i have a bunch of other type pellets,all different brands and weights,but shoots and cycles these best, shoots the cpdp good but they don't cycle well due to the shallow skirt,s i put a 13Ci bottle on mine and did all the mods, and even got it on hpa now, with the 13Ci ninja bottle that b stern was raving about, 730 fps on warm day on co2 875 to 910 on hpa with the 14.3 cpdp,it also shoots the eunjin 28gr well but you loose 175fps,very accurate with them and the 18.3 exacts as well, but all other pellets than what i mentioned and there all over the place,mod,s are easy to this gun with the 850 web site instruction,and i remember gene's red gun, sweet looking 850,try those cheap ones from mike,it surpized me,too how well they shoot,after one can i bought about 6 more, and some tech force too, still got a mess of them, pm me a address stevemag and i will send you a few,over all once you work out the issue's with it they really are very sweet guns, ;D
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Check 4 things.
1. OUT of the stock (will have to be empty, no co2 bottle attached to get it out) check the barrel/receiver joint for "wiggle".
2. Will need a pair of tweezers (or the like) to load it single shot, but if it does better as a single shot than a repeater, would point to a magazine/indexing problem.
3. Take the detachable part of the forearm (the bottle cover) off. It hangs on a dovetailed barrel hanger, and can do odd stresses to the barrel.
4. With the scope off, cup your hand around the mag/breech and feel for puffs of gas as you fire. If something is leaking, chances are it's not leaking uniformly.
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I got one of the 850's from AGD, box was labeled wrong so I have a .22 instead of .177 Haven't got to try it out yet.
A fellow named Jared is offering single shot trays in .177 and .22 for the 850 and 1250, $10 for one, $15 for two, looks very nice and fits in the rifle perfectly.
jared.leverington@gmail.com
http://www.network54.com/Forum/583202/message/1392222327/177-22+RWS+Hammerli+850-Walther+Dominator+1250+Single+Shot+Tray+-+%2410 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/583202/message/1392222327/177-22+RWS+Hammerli+850-Walther+Dominator+1250+Single+Shot+Tray+-+%2410)
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thanks ribbonstone i will test tonight.
dave that single shot tray looks interesting. i may have to get one .
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did some tests tonight, took the for end piece off and got excited when the poi changed about an inch...but groups remained at about 3/8 to 1/2". tried several pellets.
next i fed them with tweezers into the chamber with out the magazine. thought that was it but still getting flyers, maybe 3 in the same hole then 1 went 1/4 inch right then 1 went 3/8" left. also did a tissue test and it passed. so my results were really inconclusive.
just to be sure it was not me, i got out my qb78 and shot a few groups at 1/4 inch. next thing to do would be to take it out of the stock and see whats going on there.
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Just came from FedEx and the 850 is on the way to Roald at the 850 store, just getting the full tune . Since I got it so cheap I figured I'll still be a head of the game. I would have been annoyed if I payed full price and it still needed a tune. Still haven't decided how to power it yet.
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Ok - You're gonna be all set now, - just shoot it any enjoy it, ...
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Good Choice Steve. There's good potential with the 850, and it's fun to shoot. You might look at a larger tank conversion while it's getting worked on. He can fix you up. You'll get better consistency, more shots, and save a bunch on fills over the Co2 cartridges.
The Co2 tank conversion, is relatively cheap for what you'll save. Thumbs Up!
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Your set now Steve. Roald is the master with 850's. I personally did not know he was still tuning them but that is great news. Best of luck.
Gene
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Trust me - NOT everyone wants to convert an 850 to HPA or anything - it's dead nuts accurate & great to shoot - You want a HPA - fine, buy one.
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not interested in hpa at this time. i have a few 88 gram cartridges left till i decide. i just dont like the look of the bottle sticking out the front.
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"I just don't like the look of the bottle sticking out the front."
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On the 850 it the 88gr cylinder doesn't show - what did you buy??? - Once screwed in, you slide a cover over it ... what's the problem now???
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Many air gunners don't like the bottle look. The 850's are very accurate and Roald has done a fantastic job of promoting their full capabilities, either stock modified Co2 or the HPA versions. I chose the HPA version and really enjoyed it. My only complaint with the Co2 is I have no place to target shoot in the winter and I decided on the HPA conversion. CO2 is great when the temperatures are right. I like shooting all year round though.
Gene
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"I just don't like the look of the bottle sticking out the front."
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On the 850 it the 88gr cylinder doesn't show - what did you buy??? - Once screwed in, you slide a cover over it ... what's the problem now???
I'm talking about if I convert it to a 9oz bottle or some sort of refillable 88s
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Many air gunners don't like the bottle look. The 850's are very accurate and Roald has done a fantastic job of promoting their full capabilities, either stock modified Co2 or the HPA versions. I chose the HPA version and really enjoyed it. My only complaint with the Co2 is I have no place to target shoot in the winter and I decided on the HPA conversion. CO2 is great when the temperatures are right. I like shooting all year round though.
Gene
In the cold weather I can shoot at ten yards indoors , and your rifle looks pretty good even with the bottle. Maybe I can give the bottle a cool paint job .
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I use the 850 in an indoor winter league, - took second place with CO2, no problem. - Now even trying to use it outdoors here in the winter is a totally different matter, - probably not so great at about 12* below. ... LOL.
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If you want to get around using the 88g's you can pick up one of the O.E.M. 2x12g adapters. They can be used with the cheap 12g powerlets, or you can leave out the 12g's and just bulk the cylinder by using a cheap Walmart adapter that is easily modified for the purpose.
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Do want to show you something about RWS 850 barrels.
Had a spare .177 RWS 850 barrel hanging around from a trade deal (think the original owner converted to .22).
Had a Crosman 2260 co2 that wasn’t shooting well. Rebarreled it with a “mystery barrel” that come from I don’t know where. LOOKED like it might have been originally from a springer.
When that didn’t work out, grabbed the RWS 850 barrel and fitted that to the Crosman action. Ran it on co2 for a time, then converted to PCP by way of a HiPac unit.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/HiPaC/54706c9b-ce95-42c2-a027-22fd2df17b09.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/HiPaC/54706c9b-ce95-42c2-a027-22fd2df17b09.jpg.html)
Had to make a thin riser to get the fat barrel up off the air tube, HiPac as a power system, worked well, and genrally just fiddled around with getting the valve to run well (“well” in this respect means smoothly and uniformly) at 12 foot pounds.
Was testing a new (smaller) LDC Sunday and did find the groups were very slightly lower.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/HiPaC/be39043c-8b8e-4d0c-a713-60986c3d1d50.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/HiPaC/be39043c-8b8e-4d0c-a713-60986c3d1d50.jpg.html)
Lower first group was most likely due to the barrel vibration and the new smaller/lighter LDC.
Whatever else the RWS 850’s are, it does seem to put very good barrels on them.
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I hope my barrel is that good, Roald assures me when it comes back to me it will. Looking forward to getting it back.
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Heard from roald at the 850 store today and the news wasn't good.
seems when they made the hole for the front sight they almost punched all the way to the bore. causing a ...lump, for lack of the right term, in the barrel . Roald says this is common for refubs in .22. this was the cause of my accuracy problem. only one solution, a new barrel.
so far ive spent more than if i bought a brand new one , BUT when i get it back i will have a tuned refurb 850 for about the same price as a new tuned 850.
more than i wanted to spend but not a money pit, still about 25 bucks ahead. oops, never mind, forgot i had to ship it to Roald .so im even.
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Well that stinks Steve :o , but you will get a very good one back
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first and last refurb i ever buy.
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i was gonna say, someday ill get one of those great guns right out a the box like i read about but then i remembered my xs25 from MM . great gun
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Heard from roald at the 850 store today and the news wasn't good.
seems when they made the hole for the front sight they almost punched all the way to the bore. causing a ...lump, for lack of the right term, in the barrel . Roald says this is common for refubs in .22. this was the cause of my accuracy problem. only one solution, a new barrel.
so far ive spent more than if i bought a brand new one , BUT when i get it back i will have a tuned refurb 850 for about the same price as a new tuned 850.
more than i wanted to spend but not a money pit, still about 25 bucks ahead. oops, never mind, forgot i had to ship it to Roald .so im even.
Maybe this a newb question.... But why can't he cut off a couple inches and recrown?
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Heard from roald at the 850 store today and the news wasn't good.
seems when they made the hole for the front sight they almost punched all the way to the bore. causing a ...lump, for lack of the right term, in the barrel . Roald says this is common for refubs in .22. this was the cause of my accuracy problem. only one solution, a new barrel.
so far ive spent more than if i bought a brand new one , BUT when i get it back i will have a tuned refurb 850 for about the same price as a new tuned 850.
more than i wanted to spend but not a money pit, still about 25 bucks ahead. oops, never mind, forgot i had to ship it to Roald .so im even.
Maybe this a newb question.... But why can't he cut off a couple inches and recrown?
i guess he could but then id have no front site, probably cost about the same anyway . a new barrel is $60 ill save it and learn how to do t myself and ill have a carbine barrel
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Been there, done that....I hope that your replacement barrel is better than the one Umarex sent to me.
The sure way out is to just cut and crown the barrel. Neither of the barrels that I had were choked. I also use iron sights (Williams Peep) all that's necessary is to drill and tap a hole in the top of the barrel (properly) for a front sight screw.
And in this case I doubt that a "New" one of these rifles has any better chance of getting to you with a good barrel than a referb. This has been an ongoing problem with Umarex that they are aware of.
If you call them, they will give you a RMA for the barrel, and replace it N/C after inspecting yours. At least that's what they did for me. Again, the replacement had the same dent in the I.D.
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I just thought of something... if you cut it, then can't get a warranty replacement. May be past the 30 day mark anyway for a refurb. I got mine from AGD as well, but it's a 177. Haven't even had a chance to shoot it yet!
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Well Roald put a new barrel on it and tested it so I'm gonna assume it's ok, I may send the old one back to umerex though.
So all the refurbs came right from umerex to Airgun Depot.
aD said the could not open the boxes or it would void the 30 day warrantee (sp?)
So that means umerex is knowingly sending guns out with crappy barrels. That does stink.
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Makes me worried about mine. I'll have to find some time to shoot off a few rounds tonight just to see...
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The barrel problem appears to be to be only in the .22's. Myself and several other folks feel that the factory uses the same tool setting for both the .177 & .22 barrels when the they get indexed and drilled for the sights, with less remaining wall thickness in a .22 barrel, when the tap goes in and bottoms the .22's get an interior bulge.
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The barrel problem appears to be to be only in the .22's. Myself and several other folks feel that the factory uses the same tool setting for both the .177 & .22 barrels when the they get indexed and drilled for the sights, with less remaining wall thickness in a .22 barrel, when the tap goes in and bottoms the .22's get an interior bulge.
i agree
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It's a shame that the factory is ruining the .22 barrels. Obviously not all of them are bad... I wonder if its just a matter of getting a more precise machine to do the drilling.
I fitted the 9oz CO2 adapter and 3-9x50 Hawke yesterday on my .177 yesterday. Only had a chance to test one pellet type (7.9gr Crosman boxed dome). I'm getting very consistent horizontal groups. 8 shots in a straight line about 1.5" at 15 yards. Not good, but hoping it's a user/pellet issue rather than gun. Haven't had this happen before. I'll have to try shooting with better support. Will say that shooting in that same position doesn't cause horizontal strings in the FDPCP or QB79.
I read in one of BB's tests that this gun likes the RWS Superdomes. I will have to try that next.
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roald said mine did well with the 15.something grain jsb. and superdomes werent bad
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roald said mine did well with the 15.something grain jsb. and superdomes werent bad
I tried the Superdomes in my 177 and WOW what a difference! They are shaped to fit into the mags perfectly. All drop in the same depth. The Crosman domes didn't have the right head shape to slide past the oring.
No measured groups, but a definite improvement. No groups, but was hitting Cypress cones (1 inch) no problem. Couldn't do that with the Crosman domes.