GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Feinwerkbau => Topic started by: VillageSniper on February 17, 2014, 02:43:52 PM
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Hello,
I must say that this German gate does look promising. I am glad that I found this forum. A have a FWB 300s mini that I purchased used a few years ago from Jim E. It has a blue breech seal and a white bumper. Other than that I don't know anything else about it's work history, outside of the fact that it was a German club gun. It shoots very accurately and up to speed with H&N match rifle pellets (575 fps) and JSB RS pellets (635 fps). Accuracy is superb. I am considering taking the rifle apart as my brother sourced some newer green seals, springs, bumpers and rings. They are FWB official parts. It doesn't have to be done, but I would like to keep it in good shape.
I have found some good pictoral guides and plan on building a spring compressor. However, I haven't been able to find a good plan for what lubes to use and where.
Do the dual springs need to be "scragged" or preset? Do they require a light coat of any oil or grease, or on their ends or where they connenct in the middle?
Concerning lubes: The FWB manual states that they used a permanent lubricant in the rifle. Did FWB originally use a dry moly dusting in the compression chamber? I have read of people using a drop of synthetic motor oil, Beeman ultralube, Abbey SM50, moly paste. But still I wonder what was originally used at the factory as the "permanent lube" they advertised. I have wondered if a very light oil such as TSI 321 or Krytox oil, applied extremely thinly with a toothbrush to ring and bearing surface would be good, or to use a light buffing of a clear grease like Macarri Clear tar? Supposedly the factory lube was permanent and I often have wondered if a cleaning of these areas was even necessary when changing out the seals and springs.
I would like to clean the internals of dirt and contamination and will probably clean with a solvent or fine oil and then buff a grease into the metalwork to prevent rust.
Any advice on materials or lubes for such an operation would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Vs
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What do you hope to gain by cracking her open?
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Oh, I hope to gain about 500 fps. No, like I said I would like to keep it in good shape, since I don't know the history of the rifle. Maybe I will gain a little knowledge. Anything else?
Vs
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I'm in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it school".
The FWB 300 series is one of the worst guns to learn tuning on, especially one that doesn't need it. If I were you I would buy a junker and make it nice, rather than go in the opposite direction.
There are many different opinions on what lubes where, and you've obviously done some research already, so take what makes sense to you and turn a chinese POS into a smooth shooter.
Sandy.
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I had 2 300s "s and I will say this theirs about a million pieces in 1 of them :o I did not take any of them apart by they way ??? so if you feel your up to it then go for it :o but IMO those rifles are best left to someone who knows how to work on them JMO :P
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Thanks for the replies,
But I am not interested in why you think I should or shouldn't take a rifle apart. In fact, most people that have worked on these rifles claim that they are not difficult to do so. I am seeking advice for when I do it, be it a year from now or 10. My rifle is a shooter grade and I don't need a Chinese POS to practice on.
Vs
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A good place to start:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA2/library/Springer_Airgun_Lubing.pdf (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA2/library/Springer_Airgun_Lubing.pdf)
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While not difficult ... agree on them being in No Way a learning platform !!
They are very precision in there fit finish & how assembled.
Correct tools and there use mandatory !!
Most critical in taking a 300 apart is those dang sled pins & e-clip on barrel end of receiver. There set into Blind Holes and can be a real PI*A to get out if rusted or clip grooves are burred.
Have fun.
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Thanks,
I appreciate the info. I am always seeking good, relevant information.
Vs
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http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531510 (http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531510)
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I have a fwb300s tuned by Jan Kraner. The gun shoots JSB rs at 660 fps. Your gun is very close to that number, so honestly i would not mess with it. Remember that originally that gun shot the same pellets at about 550 fps, so you are ahead of the game. If its smooth and accurate, just shoot it. a lot.
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Thanks everyone for the replies and links. I have in the back of my mind the idea of trying a moly application. Perhaps FWB did something similar at the factory level. A product like Sentry Solutions Smooth-Kote or KG-10 Micro Moly. Both are dry moly powders suspended in a solvent. I think they would work well in the compression chamber, after cleaning, and would be sufficient lube for the precision parts without any oil or grease to attract dirt over time, and without any change in tolerance.
Thanks,
Vs
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I'm researching the 300S as a friend has one and it's been sitting for the past decade or so. We've got the seals and springs and such from FWB, now to work up the courage to pop her open, swap them out and get her going again. I'm curious as to how yours turned out. Do you have any tips you could pass on? Thanks!
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My rifle is a shooter grade and I don't need a Chinese POS to practice on.
He meant to practice/learn how to work on a rifle, not to shoot it next to your 300S.
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AmBraCol,
I found a real nice thread online with step by step pics, and it turned out to be very, very, easy. It is well built and nothing required any real experience or expertise. Just look at the rifle real well as you go along, remember it well and keep track of your parts. Assembling the new piston ring onto the piston is easy, but getting it back into the compression chamber was the trickiest part of the job, as you have to squeeze the split ring together and guide it in, and it is a tight fit. The ring is brittle and easy to break. I broke one. Keep the split seam of the ring rotated and oriented away from the small , square cut out in the compression chamber as well, as I think it can snag or catch there while bring inserted. If I remember right, it has been 2 years. I would use clear tar or super lube (Teflon greases) inside the main rifle action and on the outside the compression chamber. This is what you see moving when you cock it and are ready to load a pellet. On the inside of the compression chamber and on the piston ring, just lightly use moly paste or Abby sm50, or similar moly oil. Just a micro film, enough to just see through. A touch of some of the mentioned greases or moly pastes on the degreased springs and rear guide, an oil on the carriage pins to keep them slick. Moly grease on cocking lever hinge. I left the trigger assembly alone. I washed everything with odorless mineral spirits prior to lube and reassembly, and pretreated with tsi 301. You could wipe the small parts with a thin oil after cleaning and rub dry, just to help prevent rust. There was very little load on the spring, and was easy to take apart and assemble with just an extra set of hands, if you don't have a compressor. I removed the old piston bumper with a bottle opener on a Swiss army knife, it was a tough little number.
Have fun,
Vs
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So how does it shoot now????
-Y
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It still shoots great, as it did before I tore it down. In calm conditions outdoors, 10 shot groups at 20 yards are .25" with JSB RS @ 635 fps. It is the junior or mini version and a touch slower than some of the standard models that my brother has owned, which shoot at 650 with the same. I don't routinely shoot off a bench. For the rebuild, I used factory springs and seals. The part with the most wear appeared to be the rear guide. In its former life, it was a club gun in Germany and was shot a lot for sure. The guide was shiny and had pretty deep, but smooth waves or ripples in it from the spring wearing on it. There was no grease or lube left anywhere in it.
Vs
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So you rebuilt it already with new seals? How about a new guide, did you change it? And no pics??
I am pretty sure my 300s with original double spring setup shoots 600ish JSB 7.87. The other with JM spring shoots 10% faster and sounds somewhat twangy.
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Its all complete, sorry no pics as this thread started 2 years ago.
Vs