GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Benjamin Airguns => Topic started by: torence20 on February 02, 2014, 05:35:06 PM
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hey guys new here i bought a benjamin trail np all weather 22 cal and i have been having some accuracy issues with it and i have been looking for help
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Hello, and welcome to the GTA!! Congratulations on your new shooter!
Accuracy issues, huh? Have you cleaned the gun yet? (No chemicals like firearms, please. Goo Gone or Simple Green work.)
Have you practiced or learned the artillery hold?
Have you put 300 to 500 pellets through the gun?
If your answer is "no" to any of the above, I think I understand the accuracy issues. I also suggest a GRT III trigger from charliedatuna.com. That is probably the biggest single game changer for your rifle.
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hey guys i have well what the title says i have. and like the norm i have been having some accuracy problems im planning on striping it down and tuning it and recrowning and all the good stuff. upon my research i see that a fellow member gene had at one time created a washer shim kit that was a necessity as the plastic washers wear out and dont allow your barrel to close the same everytime, i however have not been able to find them forsale does anyone know if he still offers these? and what scopes are you guys switching to?
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i put about 650 to 750 ive cleaned it and practiced the hold numerous times, never say it isnt the operator but the inconsistancy is not me lol there has to be an underlying issue, i was gonna buy a new scope but this one seems so good some love it some hate it, it came with the gun its a center point mildot. ive read so many things i dont know where to start
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Keep your screws tight.
One on each side of the forward part of the stock & one behind the trigger about 3-4 inches up toward the barrel.
On 2 separate trails, they loosen & cause accuracy issues for me.
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Torence,
Gene still sells the bushings, also look into the GRT III trigger from CDT and replace the stock screws with some Grade 8 Button Head Cap Screws, secure them with Blue LocTite. Use the Blue LocTite on the threads of the pivot bolt when you reinstall it too...
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My first SS was all over the paper. Every time I thought I had it locked in it would go WAY right or left.
That's when I noticed that the barrel moved. It might have been OK with a shim kit but I sent it back to Crosman and they sent a new rifle. Problem solved.
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What size groups are you getting and at what distance? Are the misses in any particular pattern (like all in a vertical row) or is it just a general shotgun pattern? That information can help pin down the problem.
Have you tried different pellets? What shoots well in one gun may shoot poorly in the next. Experimentation can run into money but it's really the only way to know for sure.
If you want to check on the pellets it's Airguntoys run by one of the founders of this site, Gene_SC.
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thanks for all the info guys my patters are about 3 to 5 pellets in a quarter at about 15 ft then ill have at least 3 that are random shotgun pattern no consistincy flingers, can anyone direct me to where i can order genes' bushings? once i get the bushing i will at that point go thru the gun and replace all the hardware with the mentioned grade 8 screws, with blue locktite, how many people have had crown issues with this unit? also i read somewhere that a few had barrel shroud problems. i cant find it again to re read. also i have seen many topics on how to fix the trigger pull with a washer, i have a lathe so i could machine a bushing to shim up my trigger. the question is do i do that or order da tuna trigger anyone have thoughts on that.
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and i have shot several kinds of pellets thru it out of the ones i have shot so far it seems to like the crosman premiers the best, i have some rws pellets coming going to give them a try
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With the bearing or washer mod the trigger can become very unstable. The GRT III triggers are a much better and easier solution, I put them in all my guns that will take them and I install them for others.
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I hope you haven't tried getting the scope to "zero" at that 15ft distance, if you have the scope might be trashed. These cheaper OEM scopes combined with the super high rings will not zero that close even if the AO can focus that close. To adjust POI on about any OEM scope at less than 30 yds the top turret adjustment would be maxed out or close to it. Repeated shooting with the scope like this with most any mid power or magnum air gun will just break the reticle in the scope. Might look ok but it won't shoot ok.
Adjust the turrets back to center and shoot it at 20 yards at the closest, doubt the scope will adjust POI that close and it should hit 4" low or so, don't adjust the scope, just shoot the groups. All you are looking for is group size not zeroing the scope, try a few different pellets then pick a couple of the best and shoot 30 yds.
My NP had a beat-up piston seal and had a dirty chamber but it still sealed fairly well for couple hundred shots until I tore it down, might have lasted quite a while?
Check the breach seal for leaking, I had to shim mine out with 2 more shims than what it came with, had at least one that I could tell, hasn't leaked since.
Check for side to side slop between the breach and barrel, just stand it up on the floor, hold the gun with your knees and grab the end of the barrel and move it side to side to see if there is slop. If there is side slop you can try tightening the pivot screw, but don't crank to hard, it's just a screw. Also, the plastic washers are not always the same thickness, I worked on a few before Christmas that the breach was offset a tad to one side but they shot ok.
Never had to deal with a crown on the 17'ish I have torn down. There were a couple that had the shroud cranked down way to tight. Some say the shroud being to tight can effect the barrel, I never shot them before tear down but I can see that it could tweek the barrel some.
Sounds like you are going to tear it down anyway, call Air Rifle Headquarters and get a good seal, clean it up, de-burr it and re-lube. With new seals, pivot washers, trigger and cleaned up it should shoot fairly good. I went through mine with just a new OEM piston seal and it shoots nickel size 5 shot groups at 30 yds with 14.3 CPHP. Every gun is different but all the ones I worked on have shout about the same with just a basic clean up.
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thanks for the advice and i had not tried zero in at that close of distance i started at 40 yrds and after no sucesss i started just trying to get groups didnt care where on the paper as long as they were in the same spot, and as for the barrel shims i still have not been able to find them anyone know where i can get all of this stuff in one purchase or is it going to be a muliple package deal?
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also forgot to mention i ordered an rws 6by42 cl illuminated mildot reticle that is made to take the shock of a springer cheapy but hopefully better then the one it came with
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Gene's washers can be found here http://www.airguntoys.com/ (http://www.airguntoys.com/)
There could be a issue with the scope, it happens, just as long as the RWS scope is springer rated. My OEM 3x9 is holding up so far but I'm using better quality Weaver rings that are lower. Having scope rings that place the center of the scope 3" higher than the center line of the bore is just begging for scope and accuracy issues. I can fit a dime between my scope and chamber tube, my Hatsan 125 is about the same little less, my Trail XL clears 4 $1 bills 5 stacked $1 bills wont fit.
Have you by chance tried someone else shooting it to see if the groups are the same, just wondering? if this is your first springer gun it might make a bigger difference than you might think. I have seen adults that are use to shooting normal guns that need some breakin time, yet a kid does just fine. A buddy of mine from work couldn't shoot his Trail very well after 100 shots but his 12 yr old kid did fine with 10 or so shots. The stock trigger isn't helping the groups either.
When shooting from a rest mine does pretty good, high and right but about nickel size at 30 yds. Every gun is a little different but I lay a towel flip flopped over so I have about 4 layers over the arm of a lawn chair and use it as a rest and sit on my butt to shoot. With my gun, if I rest it between the cocking slot and the "B" in Benjamin on the bottom of the stock it shoots close to the same every time. Always shoots about 1" high and right vs off hand but other than that same groups over all. Make sure everything is tight and slop free and give that try if you haven't.
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thanks for the advice jr, and the link so your saying i need to get a diff mount to get my scope as close to the barrel without interference? and i went to the website and it said this on the front "Due To The Cost Of Shipping Along With My Cost Of Kits, I Feel It Is No Longer Feasilble To Continue Selling The NP Bushing Kits." isnt that what im looking for? but he doesnt sell them anymore is how im understanding this? and 3 other ppl have shot the gun all with same results
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thanks for the advice jr, and the link so your saying i need to get a diff mount to get my scope as close to the barrel without interference? and i went to the website and it said this on the front "Due To The Cost Of Shipping Along With My Cost Of Kits, I Feel It Is No Longer Feasilble To Continue Selling The NP Bushing Kits." isnt that what im looking for? but he doesnt sell them anymore is how im understanding this? and 3 other ppl have shot the gun all with same results
I got the same thing when I went there, guess individual tuners are going to be the only source for the barrel bushings...
The gas ram bushings are about obsolete since Crosman fixed the problem with the ram not staying centered....
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What Al said, never even read the notice, I have heard Gene has been under the weather a bit lately but maybe he just bagged it.
I know others have made their own pivot bushings, I can't remember the thickness off hand .065? if you do a search you will find some info on making some.
The scope ring height is more of my belief maybe, I avoid overly high rings on every gun I own. However there is a lot of truth and common sense in not using a scope ring higher than required on a high recoil gun. Tall rings just add to the whiplash effect on the scope. That and the fact of the two center lines of the bore and scope so far away, that just removes scope adjustment for up/down. The OEM rings are way taller than needed and the tolerances sometimes can be not up to par. OEM rings can let the scope slip, offset, etc. some are just fine but they are still to tall. A good set of Weaver or whatever rings are $20 or less and have better tolerances. I use Weaver Tactical rings quite a bit, never had a issue.
Years ago I had a 375 H&H mag, original owner sold it because it had broke a few scopes within a couple years. I removed his super tall rings he was using to avoid getting popped in the mouth every time he shot it. I put lower Burris Z rings and a Burris 6x scope on and shot it for 6 years...and once in a while I got popped in the mouth. I put a muzzle brake on it and it was fine, I never had a scope issue.
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ok well once i find that info i guess its off to the lathe i go lol. if anyone has a link to a thread handy, it would save me some reading if not its ok i like to read thanks guys
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I have the exact rifle, and after much fussing, I'm pretty sure my accuracy issues stem from the god-awful synthetic stock. The comb is far too low, causing me to lift my head off the stock to look through the scope, and the grip angle is not conducive to accurate shooting.
I added a homemade riser to address the comb issue, but I've had it. I'm ordering a new, wooden stock and throwing the old synthetic stock in the back of the closet.
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i find my stock to fit quite well how it is set up, it i ssomething to think about tho
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so a little update guys i got my rws scope in the mail today but it seems i forgot to order a mount...oops and for the life of me i cannot find a one piece 4 screw mount that will fit the 30mm tube and go on a weaver rail. so i guess ill start there with a question, im assuming its a weaver rail that the benji trail comes with it looks like it anyways but im by no means an expert so i guess i should figure that out first. and if anyone has a scope with a 30 mm tube and a one piece please point me to where you got it thanks! also got my new pellets today so i have some shooting i need to do! thanks
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I would try going up in "head-size" 'til you get the groupings you want, I had some issues with my 'Trail, and they dissapeared when I went up to 5.54-5.55mm in H&N Field Target Trophies, You may want to try H&N Baracudas/Match, but they only go up to 5.53mm, which may be all you need. My 'Trail's a "tack-driver" when paired with either of those rounds, and I mean "One-Ragged-Hole" groupings at 25meters(82ft),,,or try JSB pellets w/ a h/s of 5.52mm, what they lack in h/s they make up for by having very thin skirts, which really grab your barrels "land's&grooves". Hope this helps. Cheer's, Andy.
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With the weaver/picatinny mount you don't really need a one piece. Try Gander Mt., Dick's or Bass Pro. These are somewhat close to you.
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thanks for the advice andy i have recieved some h&n field ammo of the same size you had said so i guess before i pull the scope off i should try shooting it, and i thought a one piece would be they way to go but i have yet to find it so i guess two piece rings will do just fine.
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adjust the barrel pivot bolt..it shoot 10x times better
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hyspd what am i adjusting with the pivot bolt? the lock up?