GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: darryl on December 21, 2010, 05:15:03 PM
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I am currently using one 4x16x40mm, and two 3x9x32mm compact scopes on my air rifles. Given the limited ranges of air rifles, how much magnification is really needed? Set the bar at taking out a squirrel at some distance, using a .22 rifle of about 18FPE. Is 16x too much? Is 9x more than adequate? I'm trying to do some more learnin'.
darryl
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I dunno but it my case, I need to use a 3X9X32 jist to see the front sight... :) :)
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It really depends on your range and preferences. Personally, I like 12x for 25 yards or so. I like 16-20x for anything further than that. For hunting, you will probably want a larger field of vision so a 4-16 or 3-9 or something in between should be fine. But you may need to adjust your zoom depending on the distance that your target is at.
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For hunting a fixed 4 power scope is the best easier to spot game if they move. A good 4 power scope is good out to 40 yd,s with ave eye sight. You just need to see the game clearly not count the hairs. 3x9 are nice also if you want to target practice also.
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I think it is strictly a matter of personal choice, heavily weighted by the condition of your eyes. But keep in mind that your intended target is going to jump around a lot more with a 16x scope than with a 4x scope unless you are using a solid rest. Any movement on your part is magnified right along with the image.
Resting my elbow on something like a table and supporting my rifle with the scope set to 15x is frustrating for me. I’m not as steady as I was 40+ years ago and at 10 yards looking through a 15x scope makes even a stationary bulls eye look like a moving target. Things settle down a great deal if I dial back the power to 4x. At 100 yards I’m still plagued with the target moving around, but at least I can see it with the higher magnification. If I have at least a mediocre rest to use I’ll dial up the power a bit, otherwise it is sort of self-defeating.
When I was younger I would have loved my 5-15x40AO scope – I’d have been in hog heaven -- but at the time my 4x worked just fine, as they say, ignorance is bliss.
Shoot with the 4x16 for now, it shouldn’t take you very long to determine what you use power wise. If it turns out that you rarely use anything higher than 9x, than look for something like a 3x9. I would strongly advise that you look for an AO scope unless all you use your scope for is hunting and the vast majority of shots are 30 yards or longer, than look for a scope with a 30-35 yard objective lens.
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How you shoot and the target.
What is right for me may be totally wrong for you.
I shoot "tiny" targets at 10m off a benchrest. So I need all the magnification I can get just to see the target.
I currently shoot with a 4-12x, but I will be looking to upgrade to more magnification next year.
I would say, give the scopes you have a decent try; your eyes, your gun, your target, your range.
Can you see and aim at the part of the squirrel that you want to hit? If so, that is as much magnification as you need. As was mentioned, you don't need to see the individual hair to aim at its head.
As was mentioned, there are times when the problem can be too much magnification.
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I have two 4-12 by 40 and one 3-9 by 32 . I use my air rifles for hunting/pest and general shooting. Most of the time they are on 8 power. If my cross hairs are not steady on target it's time to look at my support/rest. Lock the cross hairs on target and you score a hit. All my shooters are .177 cal, so it's important for me to hit where I'm aiming, which means.......for me to have a steady hold with higher magifaction.
Froghunter
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best hunting AG scope i had was a Bug Buster 6x32 AO... great scope. however my TX now wears a CP 4-16x40
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I have a 4-16x40 and 4-16x50. Both scopes I tend to hover around 8-10 power out to 40 yards.
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Most of mines are 3x9-40mm and a few are 4x12-40mm. I like the 4x12 ones better.
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I dunno but it my case, I need to use a 3X9X32 jist to see the front sight... :) :)
LOL Bob.
I’m using a 24x scope and still can’t see my front sight. I know its got to be there. The gun cost a grand and for that kind of money there should be a big old, fat, front sight on it, somewhere. ???
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What gun cactus?
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Darryl
As the old saying goes “aim small, miss small”. Bigger glass (power wise) gives you a smaller target to aim at. Instead of aiming at the bulls eye, aim at just a part of it, like the 0 in the 10 or what ever your bulls eye has on it.
Or when shooting at flies, don’t aim for the fly, aim for its right wing. Taking out the right wing will cause the fly to fly in circles the right, which is easier to hit in flight for a right handed shooter. :D ;)
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What gun cactus?
AA S400
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i want an S410... Beautiful... ok i'm done threadjacking. i shall precede to drool.
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3x12 works fine for me but it all depends on what your doing. hunting and plinking is lower power. the ft guys use higher power
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I also think it depends on what your doing..... when I am shooting offhand I preferr a much lower mag 3-6 x or so depending on the range.... if I am benching it....... well.... dont think I can get enough lol :)
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I have 4-16x40 on my targetshooters because I really want to zoom in and I also shoot to the 100+ yd mark regularly. On my 22 350 thats going to be my hunter I am looking at a 2-7 or 3-9 non ao scope. My big cat has a 4x40 on it and its a great combo for all around shooting fun. Its alotmore challenging t hittargets past 40 yds with a 4x40. So guess it Just depends on use and range.
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Hey Cactus... I painted it yeller and slung me a 250 watt light bulb over it and that helped a little. ;D You mite like a differnt color tho. 8)
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I find even on my variable scopes they stay on 6x. That would be the best fixed scope if I had a choice. Otherwise for hunting I'd say a fixed 4x or 6x would be best.
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I enjoyed reading your informative replies. This thread of excellent advice could almost be a sticky for those considering what sort of scope to use, and when. My larger scope is the CP 4x16x40mm_AO_IR so talked about on this site. Mine is almost useless for clarity at 16x, but great at 14x. My two compacts are both 3x9x32mm_AO_IR Bug Busters. Can't go too far out with the Bugs with that thick reticle, but close-in work is very good. My eyes are nearing 61 years of hard labor, so I appreciate some magnification. Unless I'm at a shooting meet, I don't really need 14x unless I'm trying to impress myself with how small a group I can produce (so far I'm not all that impressed by my shooting, but "practice-practice-practice!")
So thank you all for your input. I learned something alright. Hey! the GTA should be an accredited college course! ;D
darryl
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I LOVE TO SEE THE TARGET VERY CLOSE. THAT HELP ME TO SHOOT WITH A LOT MORE PRESITION AT LONG DISTANCE.... SO I HAVE IN MY SUMATRA 500CC .22 A BSA STEALTH TACTICAL 8-32 X 44 FOR 100 YARDS PRACTICE EVERY FRIDAY AND NOW GOING TO 150 YARD PRACTICE.
THE MARAUDER .177 HAVE A CENTERPOINT 8-32 X 56 READY FOR ANY DISTANCE.
RWS 350 HAVE ON TOP A CENTERPOINT 6-24X50 AND THE RWS 48 .177 A
LEAPERS 4-16X50.
GERALD
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My Whisper .177 and Titan GP .22 have 4-16X40mm AO IR Center Point glass. I love big glass.
Brett
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Hello Darryl. Since you already have a 4X16 and two 3x9's you should be able to judge with the scopes you already have whether they provide "enough" magnification for the targets and the conditions you shoot in. Surely you can manage with the variable power you have to see the targets and kill zones in good light conditions at reasonable distances (say 40 yds or less) UNLESS your scope glass is unsatisfactory or your focus adjustments need tweeking or you are having one of those days when your eyes are giving you problems.You be the judge.Regardless of my scopes magnification I usually select the lowest powers when close range hunting and use the higher magnification for stationary target shooting and longer distances. It's very hard to track a moving object such as a squirrel climbing fast when the magnification is set too high. Field of view is larger when the power is lower.
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Or when shooting at flies, don’t aim for the fly, aim for its right wing. Taking out the right wing will cause the fly to fly in circles the right, which is easier to hit in flight for a right handed shooter. :D ;)
I moved from flies to gnats. I shot the eyes out of a gnat the other day. Took me two shots...one for each eye ;D.
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Hard to beat a good old fashioned 3-9x40mm.
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Hello Darryl. Since you already have a 4X16 and two 3x9's you should be able to judge with the scopes you already have whether they provide "enough" magnification for the targets and the conditions you shoot in. Surely you can manage with the variable power you have to see the targets and kill zones in good light conditions at reasonable distances (say 40 yds or less) UNLESS your scope glass is unsatisfactory or your focus adjustments need tweeking or you are having one of those days when your eyes are giving you problems.You be the judge.Regardless of my scopes magnification I usually select the lowest powers when close range hunting and use the higher magnification for stationary target shooting and longer distances. It's very hard to track a moving object such as a squirrel climbing fast when the magnification is set too high. Field of view is larger when the power is lower.
Well, I am dyslexic, but only in my left eye! ;D j/k It's more good perspective on using proper magnification for the task at hand.
oldpink (O.P....Opey?) I have a Powerline 3x9x40mm around here somewhere. I don't use it because of my requirement to have a scope focus down to at least nine yards for indoor shooting, as well as for longer distances outside.
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darryl, the full sized Centerpoint and Leapers 3-9x40 scopes both have adjustable objectives allowing them to focus all the way down to five yards.
The Leapers Bug Buster scopes will adjust all the way down to three yards.
As to your question about the origin of my chosen moniker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiveqbMsHwQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiveqbMsHwQ#)
;)
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LOL!!! that's CRAZY! ;D
Thanks for the info on the full-sized scopes. I additionally wanted the Bugs for their lighter weights too, especially on my TF-87 and once on my M54 when i had thoughts of shooting without a rest of some sort. It turns out I shoot with a rest nearly all the time so far, So I may be selling at least one of my Bugs.
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This is something completely individual. I like some of the 6-18 scopes, but 4-14 does about as well. The real key to a scope for me is having it at the parallax set correctly for what I do. Depending on the rifle I might want that to be different. My Daisy 953 is not something I will be shooting at more than 15 yards... the scope needs to have a short parallax. How close I want to see that target and how sharp would command a morrer or lesser price ;-)
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On that subject, what scopes have a good focus adjustment. My cheapo Ruger AH scope is blurry at 15-20 yds, while playing around I found the rear rubber ring part loose and turned it out about 5/16- 3/8 inch and now she is clear as can be.
The rear part is about to fall off but sure is clear.
Wally world has Centerpoints for a good price but don't know if you can set it like binoculars can.
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Never mind my last post, just really looked to see what AO meant on a scope and answered my own question.
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As to your question about the origin of my chosen moniker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiveqbMsHwQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiveqbMsHwQ#)
;)
oldpink, what the h311 is that thing? :o Turn table for spices?
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LOL, I have a 2x7x32 that works pretty well for me. Amazingly clear little rascal and light weight, too. Two things to consider when going up in magnification - you usually gain weight, since almost everyone used a variable, and the higher the mag, the higher the cost. As magnification increases, lens quality becomes paramount. Edge of field distortion, false colors, constructions, etc, all play a part in how well the scope takes advantage of the larger objective aperture. Thanks to the Chinese, we can get some pretty decent scopes that would have cost three times the price ten for fifteen years ago. Still not the equal of the better Bushnells nor Leupolds.
As said above, it all depends on what you want to do with it. Hunting in the woods? Lower power usually is brighter and ranges are generally shorter. Why a 2X or 4X fixed scope is right at home on most deer guns. Target shooting? You get more bang for the buck with a fixed power. No fiddling with the power levels, more robust mechanically and the money goes into the lenses, not the lens system. Why some of those "cheap" Japanese (or Philippines) fixed power target scopes are pretty good deals.
Heck with it. Buy a peep sight.
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As to your question about the origin of my chosen moniker:
[...deleted link...]
;)
oldpink, what the h311 is that thing? :o Turn table for spices?
I have no idea.
I just looked up "Pink Floyd backwards message" on YouTube and found this as the clearest sounding example.
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I wonder if a peep can work on an underlever?
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This is a great topic for someone like me who's only been shooting seriously for about a year or two. I don't hunt, but plink and target shoot from the bench, mostly.
I really liked Northern Lights comment, "You just need to see the game clearly, not count the hairs." That really puts it into perspective for me.
So I guess the question should also be qualified by, "Are you hunting or target shooting ?" For me, since I only target shoot, I prefer a more complex scope like a 6-24x50 so I can really see the details and "count the hairs".
RedFeather said exactly what I was thinking, it was only after I reread the thread another time did I notice it. I think I'm starting to get it now !
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You really did some digging, to find a thread that's 11 years old. LOL
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If you aren't hunting I'd go with a smaller objective than 50mm. Not sure what you're using, but generally it'll allow you to mount scope lower for a better cheek weld. I went down to a 32mm objective for that reason, and my groups tightened up quite a bit.
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I use a fixed 4 x 32 for hunting Grouse and Hares, because it is all under 50 yards, and often shooting at dusk, where a bright image (and hence a large exit pupil) is a must.... For gopher hunting I use a 4-12 x 44 which is adequate to 100 yards, although I have also used a 3-9 x 40 and a 4-16 x 50 for the same task.... When target shooting at 100 yards from a bench, I prefer either the 4-16 x 50 or a 6-18 x 50.... I absolutely hate scopes where the exit pupil is less than 3 mm, as I find that the image starts to dim on anything but a bright, sunny day.... The exit pupil is a measure of the amount of light that can enter your eye, and is found by dividing the diameter of the objective lense by the magnification.... For example, a 50 mm set at 16 X is (50 / 16) = 3.1 mm.... For dawn and dusk work, I prefer an exit pupil of 8 mm, which matches the largest diameter the pupil of your eye can achieve.... That 4 x 32 has an 8 mm exit pupil....
Bob
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Gets a little odd…..but can shoot paper real well with a lower power scope and the right target size. Does get to where you are NOT aiming at the little center, but judging how well you can quarter ythe black circle (sometimes a square center works out better).
The low powered scopes actually group well on that kind of target at much farther range than you expect (increase target size until you get that nice even “quartering” effect).
Adjust the target size, can make good groups out to 60-75 yards (at least...that’s just my limit).
Doesn’t work out as well on odd shaped, dull colored targets (like critters/ fur against nearly the same color back ground).
Makes a kind of sense if you think of match aperture type olympic sights. They are not aiming directly at the target center...are aiming at the outside of the known sized black bullseye. It's more like a hole (aperture) to a hole (front sight) to a circle (target) at a known range. Everything “fits” together, and your error is basically nothing, even though you are judging your aim by the fit of the outside edge of the circles.
A word about aperture/peep sights. The only light your eye gets is whatever passes through the hole in the aperture. They not so good in dim light or sorting out dull fur from dull tree bark.
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With a very fine crosshair ( Clearidge or Leupold), I seem to be most accurate at 5x to 6x at 25 yards.
Well, 25 yards is what I have at home 😋