GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: airgunwarriors on January 16, 2014, 05:35:47 PM
-
FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE TUNING, MODIFICATIONS, PARTS, TROUBLE-SHOOTING, ACCURACY TEST RESULTS and SHOT-STRING TEST RESULTS SECTION.
Created in an effort to provide Owners or those thinking of Owning the Flying Dragon-PCP Air-Rifle a "clean" place to post or read information on Tuning Data, Modifications Data, Trouble-Shooting Data, Accuracy Test Results Data, Shot-String Shot Data and Parts Data!:)
I will personally look through all of the posts on the "Flying Dragon-PCP Information Section" and transfer all of the Data that would be appropriate for this section.
You can also visit www.flyingdragonairrifles.org (http://www.flyingdragonairrifles.org) or give Mike Mileck a call for more detailed and accurate information!
Features:
ONLY $100.00-
LOW-PRESSURE PCP AIR-RIFLE, RECOMMENDED MAX FILL IS ONLY 1500-PSI-
AVAILABLE IN BOTH .22 CALIBER and .177 CALIBER-
DUAL POWER SOURCE CAPABLE, YOU CAN FILL TUBE WITH Co2 or AIR-
POWER ADJUSTER SCREW-
DUAL CALIBER CAPABLE, YOU CAN ORDER EXTRA BARREL and SWITCH THE CALIBER OF YOUR FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE-
RUBBER RE-COIL PAD-
ADJUSTABLE TRIGGER-
BOLT-ACTION-
DOVE-TAIL FOR MOUNTING OPTICS-
LIGHT-WEIGHT-
STYLISH and COMFORTABLE WOOD-STOCK-
THE FD-PCP DOES NOT HAVE A SAFETY LEVER-
CREATED FOR THOSE THAT LIKE TO "TINKER" or "TUNE"-
(For those not accustomed to "tinkering" or "tuning" Air-Guns, this can still be a great PCP Air-Rifle for you! Tuning or Pre-Set Settings can be discussed with Mr. Mileck of Flying Dragon Air-Rifles!:)
ACCURATE-
.177 CALIBER WITH THE POWER SETTING AT MEDIUM, USING 8.4-GRAIN PELLETS WILL PROVIDE AROUND 900-FPS and 35 SHOTS-
.22 CALIBER WITH THE "RIGHT" POWER SETTING, USING 14.3-GRAIN TO 14.5-GRAIN PELLETS WILL PROVIDE AROUND 800 TO 900+ FPS and UP TO 18 SHOTS AT THIS POINT-
HIGH PRESSURE PUMP AVAILABLE and IS DISCOUNTED TO ONLY $140.00 w/PURCHASE OF THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE-
FREE SHIPPING ANYWHERE IN THE CONTINENTAL UNITED STATES-
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/XISCO011_zps47b7c167.jpg)
(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/airgunwarriors/IMG_20131230_093937-1_zpsd76ce339.jpg) (http://s847.photobucket.com/user/airgunwarriors/media/IMG_20131230_093937-1_zpsd76ce339.jpg.html)
(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/airgunwarriors/4657a344-5d0c-4457-bfff-674cff90ec70_zps3c0305fa.jpg) (http://s847.photobucket.com/user/airgunwarriors/media/4657a344-5d0c-4457-bfff-674cff90ec70_zps3c0305fa.jpg.html)
(many images courtesy of cwlongshot.:)
-
IN REFERENCE TO INSTALLING A PSI GAUGE ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:
"I'm not at all familiar with the design of the internals, but threading a gauge directly into the tube is likely not a good idea.... Mike did state that the tube was "over 7/8" OD and under 3/4" ID", which indicates the wall thickness is greater than the 1.5mm standard on the QB rifles (which is definitely too thin to thread).... Even if the tube is 2mm wall, I would think that is still too thin.... The gauge on a Disco is threaded into an adapter which mounts in a gauge port block sealed with an O-ring.... On the PRod, the gauge block is threaded 1/8" NPT and the gauge mounts in it directly, which is the method I use on my HPA conversions.... The inside ID of the gauge block is about 3/8", leaving a 3/16" wall for threading.... It does, of course, take up valuable tube volume, and requires a 1/2" hole in the tube for the gauge, and O-rings sealing both sides of the hole....
Another possibilty MAY be to use a "T" fitting on the fill fitting, but that may be awkward and prone to damage, depending on orientation.... You would have to use fittings rated for the pressure of course, not brass plumbing or gas-line fitttings....
Bob" (From rsterne.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO INSTALLING A PSI GAUGE ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:
"if you install a gauge it will need to be after the cap in the rifle, the check valve is the last thing the air passes through going into the tube so anything before that will read zero once the pump or tank is removed..." (From MM of FDAR.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO INSTALLING A PSI GAUGE ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:
"I guess Mike has a check valve in the front cap instead of in the male Foster.... For the idea of a "T" to work, you would have to remove the check in the cap and use a Foster with a check valve in it.... The idea of using a Disco gauge block would only work if the ID of the tube is the same as a Disco.... Mike stated it was "less than 3/4" ID" because it had a thicker wall....
Bob" (From rsterne.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO DUST COVERS OR CAPS FOR THE AIR INLET FITTING OR FOSTER FITTING:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190998735527?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/190998735527?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
Here are some Dust Covers for the Foster Fitting or Air Inlet Fitting.
Thanks JTB530 for pointing these out to me!:)
Al.
PLEASE NOTE: It is my understanding that Mike M. will have Dust Covers for the FD-PCP when he gets back or soon after and says that he will send them out at no-charge.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/XISCO023_zpsc287fc84.jpg)
(image courtesy of cwlongshot.)
-
I would suggest welding and tapping a small piece of metal for a gauge. I would think that should be possible.
-
IN REFERENCE TO THE FLYING DRAGON HIGH PRESSURE PUMP (HPP), TIPS ON HOW TO USE IT:
Here are just a few Tips for those that are new to Air-Gun High Pressure Hand Pumps or HPP:
There is some minor assembly involved, just try not to over torgue anything when tightening and be sure to tighten the psi guage using the flats of the bolt located directly beneath the psi gauge!
Although today's HPP seals or O-rings are designed to withstand high temperatures, it is still best not to pump to quickly between strokes! Wait at least (1) full second after completing both the up and down strokes!
First, be sure to tighten the pressure relief ot bleed screw all the way in.
When you start to fill your FD-PCP tube, you will notice a large increase in pressure on your first few strokes; this is because your are first filling the base of the HPP and the HPP hose, BUT, once you start filling the tube, you will see a significant decrease of how much pressure you actually start building-up, because you are now filling a much larger area in the tube.
Keep in mind that you are filling on both the up and down stroke.
The higher the pressure, the more effort it will take on your part on each stroke, this is because of the pressure building up inside the tube and is a good sign!
Take a break! If you feel that the pump may be getting hot or you're simply feeling a bit tired from pumping, its perfectly o.k. to fill the tube in increments. If you do take a break, you may want to release the pressure in the hose by loosening the bleeder screw.
The great news is that the Flying Dragon-PCP requires only 1500-psi, which is the recommended max operation fill amount. I'm 5'-8" tall, 176-pounds, 44-years of age and out of shape, but find filling the Flying Dragon-PCP, using the Flying Dragon HPP to be a breeze!
Now, once you've finished filling the tube, its time to PROPERLY disconnect!
You do so by first making sure that the base or bottom of the HPP is on a surface that WILL NOT blast dust, dirt or debris into the pressure relief valve or bleeder valve when releasing the pressure, which should be done by rapidly turning the bleeder screw into the open position, this helps to rid the pump of any moisture that may have built-up in the pump and will allow you to remove the hose from the foster fitting or air inlet fitting. After removing the fill hose, cover the fitting at the end of the HPP fill hose and cover the air inlet fitting on your FD-PCP.
That's it, just be sure to try and keep your Flying Dragon High Pressure Pump in a dirt, dust or debris free environment, especially when out in the field.
Remember not to pump too rapidly!
BE SURE TO FOLLOW THE PROPER CARE INSTRUCTIONS PER THE MANUFACTURER, MM or ANYONE ELSE THAT HAS OWNED ONE LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW HOW TO GET THE MOST FROM THIS HPP!:)
The Flying Dragon-PCP comes with an extra Rebuild Kit, Oil and detailed Instructions.
Remember, everything has its pros and cons, here are just a few pros that come to mind:
No need to purchase a scuba tank-
No refill fees-
Fast, easy and convenient mobility-
Only a 1500-psi recommended fill-
Hope this helps!
Respectfully,
Al.
p.s. if there's more, please chime in, thanks!
Side Note/s: Use the oil that comes with the FD-HPP per the Manufacturers recommendations or Mike Melick's recommendations.
The silver tube that is exposed when the HPP handle is all the way up is supposed to be lubricated, please do not try to wipe the oil, lubricant or grease off of it.
Enjoy!
p.s. Please click on the link for more images and details on how to best use your HPP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Xoy7gJoD8# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Xoy7gJoD8#)
-
IN REFERENCE TO THE SAFETY (OR LACK OF) ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:
"I'd like to add a little bit of info about the safeties on these rifles. I have one with a safety and one without so I've been able to get to know each. As you may or may not know the safety in these rifles has an issue where while on safe if the trigger is pulled and released when you flip to fire, the gun does exactly that without any help from the trigger. The way the safety works is the rear of the bolt trips a lever on top of the hammer with a catch. The catch does the same job as the trigger sear just from the top side and not the bottom. If you've had the trigger off you've noticed the front trigger screw threads into a floating steel nut insert. At first glance I figured that this was for thread life so the aluminum receiver isn't stripped. That is only part of the design. The nut fits in a slot which gives the trigger group room for adjustment. This adjustment is needed to set the trigger sear location. If the trigger group is too far back when the trigger is pulled the sear gets trapped down and can't reset to hold the hammer. Since the safety is now the only thing that is holding the hammer when it is flipped to safe it let's it fly. If the trigger group is forward enough pulling the trigger drops the sear and since there is nothing in it's path the sear is returned to position by it's spring. I can't speak for every rifle made but I do feel confident in the safety on my rifle after finding this and repeatedly testing it. Every time I move the trigger group back all the way there is a problem. With it all the way forward it's worked perfectly. I did have to do a small amount of clearance work on the stock at the front of the trigger. I also wanted to point out that if you have your safety removed the easiest way to see if the gun is cocked is to note how much resistance there is on the bolt. If the gun isn't cocked the bolt in closed position will easily raise up and down. If it's cocked there will be resistance to movement. This is caused by the cocking pin pressing against a spring loaded plunger on the bolt this pressure helps seal the bolt to the barrel." (From JTB530.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO DE-COCKING YOUR FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:
"The gun is easy to decock just hold the bolt all the way back firmly, pull the trigger and slowly bring the bolt forward." (From JTB530.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ADJUSTING OR TUNING FOR A GOOD SHOT STRING w/YOUR FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE, EDUCATIONAL:
"You want to adjust for a shot string that starts out low, climbs about 4-5% to the peak velocity, and then stop shooting at that same 4-5% below the peak.... As an example, a good shot string would start at 800 fps, climb to about 840, and then end at 800.... By adjusting the hammer spring preload and the fill and refill pressures, you will find several tunes that accomplish that.... The most powerful USEFUL tune is the one that does that type of shot string while simultaneously starting at the 1500 psi maximum recommended pressure....
Bob" (From rsterne.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ADJUSTING THE POWER and ADJUSTABLE TRIGGER ACTION:
"So looking over the safeties on the first gen rifles has given me another possibility for power adjustment. By moving the trigger group all the way forward the spring preload is less and the hammer travel is shorter so less power should be seen. If the trigger group is back the spring gets more preload and longer travel so power should go up unless there is room to go to far. I'm ready to test this and see what differences I find but the weather is not cooperating." (From JTB530.)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/dd999402-12b2-417a-8545-b976417a8243_zpsab098dd1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/c2a74b97-2902-4513-a3ab-6e16bbe4dbcc_zpsfbf2bb2c.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/SrWjHo3_zps732281b7.jpg)
(images courtesy of cwlongshot.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO A PROPERLY ADJUSTED PCP AIR-RIFLE, EDUCATIONAL INFORMATION:
"I'm glad to see all this excitement over a brand new, inexpensive PCP, and Mike is to congratulated for it.... The more shooters that get into PCPs the more we will learn about them.... However, the real noob's want to step back and understand there are conflicting forces at work here.... Yes, you can get 30 FPE for 1 or 2 shots if the pressure is high enough and the hammer strike sufficient to open the valve.... However, the first shot will be the fastest, and the velocity decline with every shot afterwards, and this leads to vertical stringing on the target.... Before getting all excited about shooting over 900 fps, take a look at where the Extreme Spread (ES) becomes about 4%, because after that you will notice the pellets dropping at 50 yards.... It takes about a 4% ES at 50 yards, 3% at 75 yards, and 2% at 100 yards before the vertical dispersion starts to be hidden by the overall group size.... If you are only shooting at 25 yards, you can probably stand about a 10% ES, but that is still only 90 fps on a 900 fps peak....
A properly adjusted PCP will start out a few percent below the peak velocity, climb to a peak (with a short plateau) and then fall again.... Achieving that is a balance between the fill pressure, hammer strike, and refill pressure, for any given gun.... So far, I haven't seen anyone adjust one of these rifles to achieve that.... and until that happens, we are only speculating about what their true performance is....
Bob" (From rsterne.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO THE QUALITY and MAINTENANCE OF THE FLYING DRAGON HIGH PRESSURE PUMP or XISICO HPP:
"Further back in the thread someone asked about the durability of the Xisico pump. Tony and Al spoke up on my behalf but I wanted to add a few comments.
First are my general impressions which I posted in another thread:
Quote from: nervoustrigger on December 08, 2013, 05:25:15 PM
I've had one for a year and have used it a lot and am happy with it. I finally had to go in a few weeks ago and clean up some gunk that had accumulated at the base of the inner piston. I went ahead and replaced the little O-ring on the end with a Viton type as a precaution and cleaned and relubricated everything before reassembly. I was pleased to see no signs of rust or corrosion, whether it has anything to do with using a homemade air drier & filter, I don't know.
I have since turned the pump over to my uncle as part of his Christmas present along with the QB78D HPA conversion I built up for him. I went ahead and upgraded the inner piston O-ring with a 90A polyurethane as a precaution. I was planning to give him a rebuilt Benjamin pump but I started having issues with it just before Christmas so I decided to hold onto it and give him my Xisico instead. He's no spring chicken so the Xisico is actually a much better choice anyway. It doesn't compress as much air per stroke but as a consequence it is much easier to build pressure to 3000psi. Just takes more strokes. It's about all I can do to reach 3000psi with the Benji but consider that I am 5'11" and 145lbs after a good meal. A tenacious buck 45, though ;)
The other thing I'd like to add is that the Xisico pump is much easier to disassemble. The Benji pump required me to make a bar to fasten in place of the foot plate so I could generate enough torque to separate the tube assembly from the base. I also needed a bench vise to grip one of the inner assemblies to unscrew it (used wooden jaws so as not to mar the tube).
The Xisico pump? I did it at my kitchen table with simple tools. It comes with plenty of parts for a rebuild so I wouldn't worry about keeping it running if you are a decent handyman. Just one caveat. Considering the history of the little -007 O-ring on the Benji pump, I think it's a good idea to have a good 90A polyurethane on standby so when the time comes that you open it up, you can go ahead and upgrade it. After a year of regular use, my pump was still building pressure but that O-ring looked pretty ratty. The reason I had to open it up was because of gunk interfering with the check valve but it did look like its days were numbered.
(From "nervoustrigger".)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ADJUSTING THE POWER ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE, EDUCATIONAL:
"I always crank a new gun to the max to see what it will do as well, heck bragging rights are always fun.... But then I next detune it to a realistic shot string and then try and refine it for efficiency from there.... This is particluarly important with a relatively small air reservoir.... I understand this gun is 115 cc (7 CI), so if you fill it to 1500 psi (103 bar) and shoot it down to about half that you have 51.5 bar x 7 CI = 360 CI of useful air.... At an efficiency of 1.0 FPE/CI, which should be achieveable, that works out to a total of 360 FPE, which could be 20 shots at ~18 FPE, 36 shots at ~10 FPE, or 14 shots at ~25 FPE, assuming those figures could be reached without loosing efficiency.... That's the cool thing about PCPs, they have a variety of tunes that can meet your requirements....
Bob" (From rsterne.)
-
JUST A FEW WORDS FROM MIKE MELICK IN REFERENCE TO TESTING, TUNING and ADJUSTING:
"As the rifles have only been out for less than a month it will be abit before someone else also gets the thing sorted...just a matter of time..wish I had the time to tune them but as the work is piling up as it is that will have to wait....the Xisico pump appears to be the same as the Webley Accupump as seen in the brit magazine Air Gunner...sells over there for 139 pounds sterling...."
-
IN REFERENCE TO FILLING THE TUBE, RECOMMENDED MAX FILL IS 1500-PSI:
"Mike made some comments on pressures in these two posts:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58190.msg557013#msg557013 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58190.msg557013#msg557013)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58190.msg556885#msg556885 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58190.msg556885#msg556885)
Note that CO2 can reach ~1900psi in a rifle left in a car on a hot day...an interior temperature of 120°F. So the XS60C's pedigree as a CO2 rifle coupled with Mike's test results and the information from the factory, I would have zero hesitation in testing up to 2000psi assuming that it does not first valve lock at some lower pressure.
Also, be aware that the maximum fill pressure may fall somewhat if the hammer spring takes a bit of compression set. For example, it may not valve lock until 2000psi when new but after it has been shot a bunch of times (or left cocked for a period of time), it may valve lock at 1700psi." (From nervoustrigger.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ADJUSTING THE POWER SETTING SCREW and TESTING:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/c28d94f4-e454-4cbe-936f-a833a44165a5_zpsd38c2789.jpg)
(Image courtesy of cwlongshot.)
"I am turning the screw all the way out then running it in 2 turns, if you test it always start with 1500 psi, back it all the way out then run in 1/2 turn at a time and test, when you find the approx. the velocity you are looking for then fine adjust. Striker spring replacement will help as will adjusting weight of striker and replacing valve spring. It can be a long process but that's part of the fun. Just be careful..." (From Mike Melick.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ACCURACY TESTS and THE USE OF DIFFERENT PELLETS:
"Morning guys!
I took the morning shooting different pellets out of the XS60c in my basement range @ 20 feet. All shots are off hand, 5 shots with scope on 5X. 10 shots per string before re charging, power was about 1K after 10 shots. I have not tuned or adjusted anything on the gun from when I received it. I shot all the different pellets I had on hand that where worth while. I did not shoot any old Crosman super-pells or any Gamos's other than the rockets. (Most Gamos don't do well for me anyhow)
Like most guys I also choose the JSB 18.13g pellets as my go to pellet. But as you will see the guns really shoots everything very well at this close range. A few are better than others but no one pellet is a stand out from my gun at these settings.
Here is that JSB 18.13g pellet target.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/71d5211e-1535-462a-8940-ad2d2b3d772f_zpse19a4c7c.jpg)
Here is Ultra Mags, Super H Point, Barracuda Hunter Extremes, Beeman Ram Jets & Crosman CPHP
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/b33cba8d-c019-45ba-b453-10aad0931e99_zps18f53993.jpg)
Here is Exact Jumbo Monsters, FTS Copper, Benji Diablos, Gamo Rockets & Beeman Silver Arrows
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/6cdde447-ccf4-472c-bb5a-4aa4df02b4ad_zps08753158.jpg)
Lastly here is RWS Hobby, Beeman Kodiak, Poly Mags, Eunjins and Silver ACE Pellets
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/9dc9a1af-69b1-4241-8dc2-d03b56f77baf_zpsb237594e.jpg)
16 different pellets from the XS60c. Maybe later it will warm enough for the chrony.
CW" (From cwlongshot.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ACCURACY TESTING and DIFFERENT PELLET TYPES:
I am not able to transfer the picture/s, please click on the link below to view the results.
It is the 3rd post on the page.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58507.280 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58507.280))
"I just found some more pellets. ;) ::) ::) ::) ;D
Same scenario, 10 shots per charge, 5 shots per pellet/Target and all off hand at 20feet.
Here is Crosman Pointed pellets, Kodiak Copper coated, Beeman Silver Bear, New Ultra mag METAL MAGs & NewBoy senior heavweights
I find loading from the left side VERY comfortable, shooting ten times ten charging is working well but this is before chrony tests and any tuning. I can hear that the first shot has a lot of ''zip''. But the impacts seem to ''sound'' consistent to over fifteen shots.
I want to do some trigger work as this one is not so great... Very gritty, but predictable and repeatable once it breaks its clean but a bit heavy. I am guessing ten pounds.
This Hawk doesn't have a mil dot, I'm thinking I may need to get a new scope but we will see how it shoots at range. Probably 50 yards will be tops for me and what I want this gun to be able to do.
CW"
-
IN REFERENCE TO SOME CHRONY TESTING and SHOT COUNT TESTING:
"Check the 'Chinese Airgun' section, there is a thread for the MM PCP
http://www.network54.com/Forum/113813/message/1389222413/MM+low+press+pcp++chrony+numbers (http://www.network54.com/Forum/113813/message/1389222413/MM+low+press+pcp++chrony+numbers)"
(From toine.)
-
A REPLY IN REFERENCE TO THE CHRONY and SHOT COUNT TESTING:
IN REFERENCE TO SOME CHRONY TESTING and SHOT COUNT TESTING:
"Check the 'Chinese Airgun' section, there is a thread for the MM PCP
http://www.network54.com/Forum/113813/message/1389222413/MM+low+press+pcp++chrony+numbers (http://www.network54.com/Forum/113813/message/1389222413/MM+low+press+pcp++chrony+numbers)"
(From toine.)
"The post on the Yellow shows 20 shots averaging 923fps with 16gr pellets which is an average energy of 30.3fpe. That borders on the unbelievable for the smallish reservoir of the rifle. I hope it's true but until Bob or someone similarly qualified chimes in, I remain skeptical.
He says he used a slightly higher fill pressure so I'm guessing 1700psi. Let me stretch it to 1800psi and let's say the ending pressure was 1100psi. That means the efficiency was 1.49fpe/ci. That is stellar! But do I think the 60C breathes well enough to ring off the last shot at 885fps or 27.8fpe with "only" 1100psi behind it? Hmm...
Also, that result appears to be much more than an incremental improvement over what others have reported. If he said I ported this and polished that and modified the striker, then maybe. But he says all he did was tweak the hammer spring preload.
Again I hope I'm wrong but I don't want anyone to get their hopes way up." (From nervoustrigger.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO SOME TECHNICAL and PARTS INFORMATION:
"the new valve in the gen 2 is set up to give more shots per fill on CO2 but can be "adjusted" to shoot the same as the gen 1. The valves in the gen 1 are basically stock ones, all that has been done is remove the piercing pin and the liner, the head of the valve is machined to have a bump to hold the spring....with some shaping and opening of the area in the cap around the head more power can easily be gotten out. That with a stronger valve spring and striker spring replacement could give much smoother strings...." (From Mike Melick.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ACCURACY TESTING and SHOOTING VARIOUS TYPES OF PELLETS:
(I apologize that I cannot transfer the picture/s with the test results, I will again post a link to the page. It is the 9th post on this page.)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58507.300 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58507.300))
"Well, I have nothing negative to say! Even with the pump they are cheaper than any other PCP on the market!
I did some pellet testing today. I shot 10 rounds of each of the following:
JSB Exact Heavy Diabolos 18.1 grain (these are still the most accurate)
H&N Crow Magnums 18.2 grain
Crosman Destroyers 14.3 grains
Crosman Pointed 14.3 grains
RWS SuperPoints 14.5 grains
The following Benjamin Pellets (all 14.5 grains-pretty sure Benjamin pellets are the same as crosman pellets)
Domed
Pointed
Hollow points
Pointed Expanding
All of these pellets seem to shoot pretty good. Still haven't found any that shoot "horrible."
Also, started my PSI at 1750. After 10 shots down to 1500. So I am sure I can get at least 20 good shots.
* test.jpg (50.58 kB, 400x400 - viewed 6 times.)
* test2.jpg (53.47 kB, 400x400 - viewed 6 times.)" (From selittle.)
-
A REPLY IN REFERENCE TO THE CHRONY and SHOT COUNT TESTING:
IN REFERENCE TO SOME CHRONY TESTING and SHOT COUNT TESTING:
"Check the 'Chinese Airgun' section, there is a thread for the MM PCP
http://www.network54.com/Forum/113813/message/1389222413/MM+low+press+pcp++chrony+numbers (http://www.network54.com/Forum/113813/message/1389222413/MM+low+press+pcp++chrony+numbers)"
(From toine.)
"The post on the Yellow shows 20 shots averaging 923fps with 16gr pellets which is an average energy of 30.3fpe. That borders on the unbelievable for the smallish reservoir of the rifle. I hope it's true but until Bob or someone similarly qualified chimes in, I remain skeptical.
He says he used a slightly higher fill pressure so I'm guessing 1700psi. Let me stretch it to 1800psi and let's say the ending pressure was 1100psi. That means the efficiency was 1.49fpe/ci. That is stellar! But do I think the 60C breathes well enough to ring off the last shot at 885fps or 27.8fpe with "only" 1100psi behind it? Hmm...
Also, that result appears to be much more than an incremental improvement over what others have reported. If he said I ported this and polished that and modified the striker, then maybe. But he says all he did was tweak the hammer spring preload.
Again I hope I'm wrong but I don't want anyone to get their hopes way up." (From nervoustrigger.)
A REPLY TO THE CHRONY and SHOT COUNT TESTING, WITH SOME ADDITIONAL TEST RESULTS ON SHOT COUNT and FILL PRESSURE:
"I agree with Nervoustrigger that the shot string from the Yellow seems a little optimistic. I have not done a lot of tweaking yet, but I have had my FD-PCP shooting 14.3 CPHP at 910 fps (high) and at that power level it fell back into the high 800's after about 10 shots. I did start at 1500 psi and have not experimented with higher pressures yet, so that may be the key. I will be extremely pleased if I can get the gun to start in the high 800's move up to the low 900's for 10 shots and then fall back to the high 800's predictably. It will become my goto hunter then, except for those North Georgia Elephant Squirrels, which I will still use my Octane in .25 cal on... ;)" (From Smythsg.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO PROPER TUNING OF A PCP AIR-GUN, EDUCATIONAL:
"Quote
14.3 CPHP at 910 fps (high) and at that power level it fell back into the high 800's after about 10 shots
C'mon, guys, this is NOT the way a PCP should be tuned.... If you are shooting at 50 yards, you need to stick to about a 4% ES (some even say 3%), which for a high of 910 is a low of 874 fps.... So, throw out any shots slower than that and you have a realistic idea of what you've got.... maybe 4-5 shots?.... You need to back off on the hammer spring preload so that staying with the 1500 psi fill RECOMMENDED for the gun the velocity starts 4% below whatever it's peak is (at that setting) and then you stop shooting at 4% below the peak.... only counting the shots within that 4% ES.... It's at THAT setting you truly know what the gun is capable of both in terms of FPE and shot count to operate safely, within the manufacturers recommended fill pressure....
Is it safe to fill to more than 1500 psi?.... Maybe, but the XS60C hasn't got the long term track record of the QB7Xs, so we don't KNOW where it will fail.... Yes, CO2 can reach 1900 psi at 120*F, so the gun SHOULD be engineered to have at least a 2:1 (or 3:1) safety margin above that point, like the Disco, which is at least 3:1 at it's 2000 psi recommended fill pressure.... I can tell you for a FACT that a QB79 is NOT safe at twice 1900 psi, I know of one where the tank block screws failed at 2600 psi and blew the tank block, regulator, and tank across the shop floor.... Fortunately, nobody was in the way.... That's only 37% above what we think of as OK for CO2 (ie not even what a CO2 tank is hydrotested to at 3000 psi), and at a 2:1 safety margin it would mean a MSWP of 1300 psi.... Now I'm not saying that Mikes FD-PCP isn't safe at 1500 psi, or at 2000 for that matter.... but Mike is saying 1500, so I think we should trust the man and do what he says.... We have at least one known example of a Chinese made CO2 gun failing at less than the hydrotest pressure for CO2 of 3000 psi....
If I were running this gun on a regulated tank, I would fit a 1.8K burst disc to the output side of the regulator, which in turn limits the fill pressure to 1500 psi.... You might get away with 1600 for a while, but eventually the gun will warm up and pop the disc and scare the heck out of you.... BUT, at least there is a disc to look after your safety in that situation.... With an unregulated gun with no burst disc, I wouldn't fill above what that disc would stand, which means 1500 psi (with a margin for that to increase in high temperatures).... It only takes about a 100*F increase in temperature to make that 1500 psi turn into 1800....
Bob" (From rsterne.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO SHOT STRING TEST RESULTS, USING DIFFERENT TYPES OF PELLETS w/CHRONY REPORT:
"I received my .22 caliber FD PCP on 1/7/14 and finally had some time to test it and sight it in (only had 10 meter range to work with).
Right out of the box I hooked it up to my FX hand pump and found that it came charged with 1500 psi. I threw about 5 more pumps in it for good measure and the gauge was a hair below 1600 psi. Here is my first 20 shot string. The first 5 or so pellets were with RWS Super Domes and then I switched to CPHPs for the rest. The muzzle was about 2 feet from the chrony and it has a indoor light set. I did not touch the power adjuster and don't plan to. I assume it is how Mike said he was shipping them (2 turns in from all the way out).
1-846 FPS
2-853
3-850
4-850
5-846
6-849
7-858
8-852
9-848
10-842
11-832
12-824
13-815
14-809
15-798
16-779
17-762
18-749
19-730
20-719
The gun was at approx 550 psi and took 53 strokes to fill it back to 1500 psi.
I did some shorter 10 shot strings with the following pellets and recorded the average.
JSB 18 grain 735 fps (22 fpe)
Eun Jin 29 grain 550 fps (19.5 fpe)
Eun Jin 32 grain pointed 525 fps (19.5 fpe)
The JSB 18 grianers and the RWS Super Dome gave ragged one hole groups. I sighted the "iron" sights in first and was able to obtain almost the same accuracy as with the cheapy 4x32 scope I put on it that I took off a Ruger Air Magnum I use to have. That will probably change as the distance gets greater, but I really like the open sights on this gun. I used a set of fairly high rings to clear the sights . I like keeping the open sights on it for back-up in case I ever had a problem with the scope in the field.
The gun is pellet picky in the sense that all of the pellets shot with very good accuracy, but the POI changed quite a bit with all of them. I like to have one good dome and one good HP pellet that have the same POI for each of my airguns for hunting. The only two that met this criteria were the RWS SD and RWS HP. I was thinking Kodiak and Crow Mag, but I could not find my Kodiaks! At the end of my plinking session, I was randomly pick out single pellet holes on the white target paper and put another pellet right it it.
I was hoping that the gun would put out more fpe with the heavy Eun Jins. I thought they would do 25 fpe at this setting if the RWS were doing almost 23 fpe. I am plenty happy with the shot string and accuracy this give.
I have had several more "high end" PCPs over the years, but I like this low psi gun that I can easily fill with my pump and is accurate to boot. The gun is loud, but the other odd thing is that I swear the light pellets were quieter in thus gun then the heavy weights.
Best $100 on a airgun I have ever spent!" (From pneumo.)
-
A REPLY IN REFERENCE TO A SHOT STRING TEST RESULTS, EDUCATIONAL:
"pneumo.... Nice to see a solid string so that concrete tuning suggestions can be made.... As is, the first 12 shots are all I would count, as 96% of the highest velocity, 858 fps is 824 fps.... In fact, when I am shooting shot strings I watch for the peak, calculate 96% of that, and stop shooting when the velocity drops to that point.... There is no sense wasting air and pellets past that, IMO....
Now, looking at that string, the starting velocity, at 846 fps is not far below the peak at 858, so that indicates your hammer strike is too much to get a proper curve.... If you were happy with 10 shots, it would be excellent, and I would leave it as is, and simply refill after the 10th shot at 842 fps.... That is a very tight Extreme Spread, of only 2%, which should produce excellent accuracy, and a very quick refill because you would be refilling from around 1000 psi.... However, if you back the preload out a bit, to drop the starting velocity by maybe 30 fps to about 810 or so, it would likely peak somewhere around 845, and then by the time you are back down to 810 you will have the 4% ES that I try for.... I would think that would give you about 20 shots within that 4% spread, which incidently isn't far off the performance of a Disco....
Oh, and TNK, comparing this to a Daystate at (at least) 10 times the price isn't going to win you any friends.... but I'm sure you don't care about that.... Perhaps your efforts would be better spent enjoying what you have, than criticizing what I think is probably the best thing to happen to the PCP world since the Discovery.... I don't have one (yet), but I plan to.... I mean for $100, how can I lose, I already have the means to fill it....
Bob" (From rsterne.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO PARTS FOR PLUGGING HOLES WHERE THE SAFETY WOULD HAVE BEEN:
"Here you go:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/113813/thread/1304207988/Plugging+those+XS60C+safety+holes+... (http://www.network54.com/Forum/113813/thread/1304207988/Plugging+those+XS60C+safety+holes+...)
3/16ths and 5/16ths.
selittle got some at ACE Hardware I believe.
Here are some from cwlongshot's Flying Dragon-PCP Air-Rifle:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/FACC0EB6-B934-460E-909B-4FE35B077D16_zpsx8ueoxy5.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/c2a74b97-2902-4513-a3ab-6e16bbe4dbcc_zpsfbf2bb2c.jpg)
Hope this helps!:)
Al."
-
IN REFERENCE TO SHOT STRING TEST RESULTS w/GRAPH:
"Hey all - the wind from yesterday died down and I got a nice shooting session in after adjusting.
I posted my detailed data and review in the China gate to get a little more exposure, here is the link to my post.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59493.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59493.0)" (From etamme.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ADJUSTING THE POWER SETTING SCREW w/SHOT STRING TEST RESULTS:
"Like CW, I got my sling installed today and this afternoon the weather broke so I was able to get some additional chrony numbers to share. I shot two strings of 20 each using Crosman 14.3 CPHP and adjusted the power screw after the first string for just a bit more power. I am still not completely happy with the 2nd string, but it did prove to me that "this dog will hunt"... ;)
(Altitude 1047, Temp 55 F, No wind, Gun was at 1500 psi for start of both strings)
String 1 String2
1 653 770
2 683 751
3 714 787
4 717 820
5 737 854
6 758 864
7 783 868
8 781 882
9 823 910
10 844 918
11 843 924
12 863 920
13 890 911
14 895 894
15 904 894
16 899 884
17 896 871
18 888 858
19 873 835
20 869 832
I admire etamme's graph, but I am too tired this evening to play with excel. It looks like that if my results were graphed, the curve would very much resemble the shape of etamme's graph. The first three or four shots are generally significantly lower than the rest, then the velocity curve begins to go up steadily till peak, and then a more gradual decline. I shot a few more that I will not post here, but the pattern seems to be consistent.
Just for giggles I did screw the power adjuster all the way out and then back in two turns. My first shot across the chrony was 352 fps and the pellet bounced off the hardback book I was using for a backstop. I shot a couple more but did not make it to 400 fps and decided to stop that string when one of the pellets bounced back and hit my leg.
It was starting to get dark so right after String 2 I backed the power adjuster off about 1/8 turn to try to get a slightly more consistent string. Ideally I would like the string to peak around 905-910 fps and taper to the mid 800's by shot 20. That would give me around 15 effective hunting shots which is exactly what I hoped for with this gun... ;D" (From smythsg.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO SHOT STRING TEST RESULTS w/REALLY NICE GRAPH:
I could not transfer the image of the Graph, so please click on the link to view it. It is the 9th post on the page. You will also see a few other nice Test Result Graphs while you are there.
"Hey Steve,
Here is a graph of your chrony. Looks like your second string is pretty darn good - maybe I need to crank down that preload screw just a hair more." (From etamme.)
-
IN REFERENCE ON HOW TO ADJUST THE ADJUSTABLE POWER SCREW:
"Scott, there are hex jam nuts on the inside of the two small adjustment screws. You need to take off the side cover and loosen the jam nuts to be able to make your changes and then tighten them to lock your adjustments in." (From JTB530.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO THE FD-PCP INTERNALS, TRIGGER:
"Hey all - I took apart my trigger today and cleaned it up, it is in fact the exact same as the link i provided previously. I polished the contact surfaces, and I screwed in the sear engagement screw to shorten the travel effectively. I also screwed in the trigger stop screw to keep things nice and "tight". There are no "spring loaded" components that will explode out when you open up the trigger - just go slow and all should be fine.
Here is a picture of the internals."
here is a link to a larger image http://i.imgur.com/SrWjHo3.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/SrWjHo3.jpg) (From etamme.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ADJUSTING THE TRIGGER and POWER:
"I discussed earlier that the location of the trigger group can affect the hammer spring preload as well as the striker travel. If you noticed when you put the trigger group back on it has some forward and backward adjustment to it. All the way forward takes spring preload off as well as shortening the travel. Moving backwards adds preload and lengthens travel. I haven't done any testing over the chrony yet to see just how much of a difference this makes but it does need to be considered." (From JTB530.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ADJUSTING THE TRIGGER and POWER:
"I believe misunderstanding of the reason for the trigger group adjustability may be responsible for the widely held belief that the designers messed up on the safety.
That adjustment is meant to allow adjusting the clearance on the sear to prevent the binding that causes the problems so many have with these.
If you look into the inspection port that shows the sear engagement, and adjust the fore and aft of the group, you will see that when the clearance is just enough for the safety to work properly, the striker does not have to travel far to engage the sear... and there is no loud (and HARD) click, or the loss of striker power that comes from making it travel a long way to make that engagement.
If you adjust this clearance properly, and then rely on preload adjustments, springs, or spacers to get the striker force you seek... you get to keep the safety, and all the power you put into cocking the thing.
It is an unusual design, and frankly (IMO) a very clever one. It allows good critical function tolerances to be had, without critical machining tolerances (spelled $$$) being needed.
I set mine up with just enough clearance, and when my safety transfers the striker to the sear, I have a solid click... and nothing more.
Try it guys... it's one of the things I really like about the design." (From stalwart.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO THE TRIGGER and SAFETY, AS WELL AS ADJUSTMENTS:
"We need to remember that the FD-pcp is being shipped without a safety. I wasn't aware of this and posted in this section earlier about what I had learned on the safety. Since there isn't a need to worry about adjusting the trigger group to make the safety function correctly it can be used as a tool to tune the rifles performance instead." (From JTB530.)
"That is correct.
The effect of a slight movement of the group, on the striker's preload, is significant." (From Stalwart.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO PARTS FOR THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP, CAP SCREWS:
"How about some "REAL" stock screws?? ::) ::) ::) ::)
I bought some new stock screws as I don't much care for Chinese screws...
If you agree, buy these:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/7188efbe-f3bc-4222-87fa-e0ed659d672d_zps9df867c9.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/ccc1b3f6-9d0f-4668-a07b-d877f1093dde_zps826630cb.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/1e47179c-69fc-41f7-9fdd-f72d1a751c40_zps3ce35145.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/c39a3ca8-b11d-4ae7-bfa2-3ce8cf5806ec_zps2059f4a8.jpg)
They are long, but easily trimmed with a dremil and a cutoff wheel.
Here they are al trimmed. I added washers. But found that only the front needed a washer. The rear piece was too small for the washer and being metal, is OK with out one.
They are SO much better especially with tuning as the stock is on and off again and again." (From CW.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO THE POWER SCREW ADJUSTER:
"Where is the power screw? I took the gun off the stock. But there are a few screws and i don't want to screw up (pun intended) anything.
Maybe some diagram or picture might be very useful." (From mouka.)
Reply from cwlongshot:
"It's a slotted screw above and behind the trigger with a jamb nut. It controls the preload to the main spring that powers the hammer to hit the valve. The heavier the spring or in this case the more the preload the harder the valve is hit and the longer it will stay open. Causing more air to be released increases velocity and energy." (From cwlongshot.)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/c28d94f4-e454-4cbe-936f-a833a44165a5_zpsd38c2789.jpg)
-
IN REFERENCE TO DEGASSING THE PRESSURE IN THE TUBE:
"How can one depressurize the air tank from this gun? I learned the hard way that one should not try to unscrew the air tank cap because the air pressure inside the tank makes it almost impossible. I used a vice grip and did a nasty job on the fill nipple.
I will ask Mike if he can hook me up with a replacement fill valve. I will send him mine as he can easily remove the fill nipple that I have butchered.
I know that the
Discovery and the Marauder have a screw in the back that can depressurize the tank if one is switching from CO2 to air or vice versa. I am wondering if this gun has something similar." (From mouka.)
Here's an answer below.
"If you pump until the check valve opens, you can degas by slowly opening the bleed screw. Doing it slowly prevents the check valve from closing. You'll need to gradually open the screw more as the pressure falls.
Not the fastest but totally non-invasive and totally safe." (From nervoustrigger.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO SHOT STRING TESTING RESULTS w/GRAPH:
I cannot transfer the images of the Graph/s, please click on the link to view the results of the testing. It is the 16th post on the page.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58507.540 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58507.540)
"Hey guys I just posted more data over in my china gate thread...
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59493.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59493.0)
I got a good 10 shot string with a max fps deviation of 5.65% - pretty good IMO. Check it out.
image for the lazy
-Eric" (From etamme.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ACCURACY TEST RESULTS:
I cannot transfer the image of the target used for the Accuracy Test/s, please click on the link to see it. It is the 10th post down on the page.
"here's a group I just did on a full tank. I pumped the tank to 1500. Then took 20 straight shots without refills.
There are 4 fliers I can't explain. Maybe deformed pellets?
Anyway, there are 16 shots basically on the same hole.
This target is printed on standard A4 paper. Nothing fancy. Just a target pdf I print for shooting purposes.
The bull's eye is 10 mm diameter. That is less than half an inch in diameter. Each circle is exactly 10 mm thick.
There is about an 1.5" margin on the left of the page and another 1.5" margin on the right I didn't include in the picture.
The fliers were shots: 6, 9, 11 and 13. All the other shots landed on the same spot that is exactly 10 mm diameter. That is less than half an inch." (From mouka.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO THE DUAL CALIBER FEATURE/S:
As mentioned, you can order the FD-PCP in .177 or .22. If you would like to have Dual Caliber Capabilities, just purchase an extra barrel in the caliber you would like to have (only $20.00 for extra barrel/s.) and a set of extra o-rings for the barrel.
The o-ring size for the barrel is 012 and you can get them at your local Auto Parts Store or local Hardware Store. Only about .79 per pack or set.
The reason for the extra o-rings, is that you may damage the ones on the barrel you are removing from the FD-PCP and will need to replace them with the new ones. Also, you will need some for the extra barrel.
From what I have seen personally, one should be able to switch out the barrel in a matter of minutes.
Just always be sure to remember that your FD-PCP is not cocked or loaded before doing any barrel switching!
Also, be sure to always use the proper tools too, as you do not want to damage any of the parts.
Al.
Moderator, please delete this accidental quote or reply.
Thanks!
Al.
-
WARNING!
I would like to let everyone know in this Tech Data Section that if you let the pressure get too low in the tube of your FD-PCP, the valve seal may start to leak.
If this happens and you try to refill the tube, you will find that the air will just escape through the chamber and barrel.
I have had this happen a few times because of running the pressure down too low when shooting and although it is easy to fix the leaky seal, it is just best not to run the pressure down way to low.
I too need to stop and refill when at the bottom of my shot string or count.
Al.
p.s. Not everyone may have this happen, as no 2 Air-Rifles are exactly a like, just wanted to let you know just in case. ;D
-
IN REFERENCE TO STRING SHOT TESTING and ACCURACY TESTING:
I was so impressed with these test results that I had to transfer them over here! To see an image of the Accuracy Test results, please click on the link. It's the 20th post down on the page.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58507.580 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58507.580)
I am with all the guys that are loving the heck out of this little gun. I haven't gotten to shoot as much as I would like lately, but I can already tell this one's going to be a go-to gun.
Here's some shot strings I shot the other day:
CPHP: 857, 859, 865, 861, 867, 869, 862, 859, 853, 842
JSB Exact Jumbo: 830, 832, 826, 844, 826, 836, 838, 835, 827, 820
H&N Barracuda: 742, 749, 746, 739, 748, 746, 747, 740, 741, 738
H&N Crow Magnum: 782, 792, 792, 798, 788, 798, 791, 784, 786, 776 (24-25 FPE)
JSB Monster: 692, 698, 699, 701, 698, 696, 680, 674, 671 (25-27 FPE)
I put a scope on the gun today and shot a quick group for sight-in. Here's the first five shots out of the barrel with JSB Exact Jumbo at 20 yards.
It was getting dark, so I spent the last ten minutes plinking juice cans at 40 yards. Not a miss out of 20 shots and the gun is sooo easy to shoot offhand. I'd just like to throw my experience in that the gun is easy to use, relatively accurate, and has a great form factor. I probably haven't put 100 shots through it yet, either. (From Cathartes.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO REMOVING THE FIBER-OPTIC SIGHTS, PARTS:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/XISCO035_zpsf94842ee.jpg)
If you decide to remove the Fiber-Optic Sights and mount other type of optics, you can replace the holes where the Fiber-Optic Sights mounting screws used to be with M4 Set Screws.
Happy/Safe Shooting!:)
Al.
-
IN REFERENCE TO SHOT STRING TEST RESULTS and TUNING:
This is an average 923-fps and 27.05-fpe using 14.3-grain pellets! For the purpose of hunting, a shot count of 10-13 from a low-pressure PCP, such as the Flying Dragon-PCP is all you really need imho.
Job well done utilizing the Power Adjuster Screw Feature and the recommended 1500-psi fill in an effort to dial-in that sweet-spot!
I'd say the Flying Dragon-PCP is most definately a capable Hunter of small game!
"Finally... FD-PCP SUCCESS... :D ;D :D ;D
I shot several 20 shot strings today adjusting the power setting to various spots, never quite happy with the result. I finally found the holy grail (as a hunter, anyway) and was able to shoot this string:
(.22 cal, 14.3, CPHP, 1500 psi on my guage)
1 873
2 899
3 929
4 950
5 953
6 955
7 950
8 944
9 926
10 925
11 911
12 901
13 887
I did not finish the 20 shot string because I know the power would fall off rapidly. I will simply quit shooting and refill after shot 13. Most of the other strings I shot had the power curve shifted toward the end of the string, which for a hunter is not ideal. This setting shifted the power curve towards the front of the string which is better for hunting. The string is not perfect, but if I factor out the first and last shot I am pretty close to Bob's 4% . I know this setting is not for everyone, especially those more interested in shot count, but I am elated, it is exactly what I hoped I could do with the FD-PCP. Now for some accuracy tests!!!" (From smythsg.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO SHOT STRING TEST RESULTS and TUNING w/GRAPH:
Here is more really great test results in .22 Caliber! To see the Graph, please click on the link.
"Okay guys - I think I have a good 10 shot chrony with a max fps deviation of 5.65% - i know 4% is ideal, but this is pretty darn close.
filled to 100 bar (1600 psi) and then bled and removed hose to get an effective 1500PSI in the gun. Shooting .22 CPHP with the trigger group completely rearward, and 3.75 turns clockwise on the preload screw after completely backing it out counter clockwise.
The orange data summary is for all 20 shots, while the yellow data summary is for only the first 10.
here is the large image link: http://i.imgur.com/x0y2p03.png (http://i.imgur.com/x0y2p03.png) (From etamme.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO "DIALING-IN" THE SETTING THAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU:
I have mentioned this before, but would like to have this information in this section as well.
For those of you new to Air-Gunning or new to tinkering and tuning, if you can loosen a nut and use a screw-driver, you too can try to can utilize the Power Adjuster Feature and "dial-in" the setting that works best for you in an effort to find that sweet-spot on your FD-PCP!
You will seriously need to consider the purchase of a Chrony though. The F1 Chrony is only $75.00 and has great ratings.
Without a Chrony, you will not be able to find that "rainbow" arch in your shot-string that has been mentioned by Air-Gun Expert Bob (rsterne.), which is ultimately what you want, regardless of the fps and fpe you are looking for.
Or
You can spend $40.00, which will cover shipping your Flying Dragon-PCP both ways in most cases in the U.S. and have someone that knows what they are doing, "dial-in" and find that sweet-spot for you!:)
For only $100.00, the Flying Dragon-PCP is a great buy, but a waste if you are not tapping it for its full potential.
Al.
-
WARNING!
I would like to let everyone know in this Tech Data Section that if you let the pressure get too low in the tube of your FD-PCP, the valve seal may start to leak.
That's pretty normal, when the air pressure gets low the valve isn't held closed as hard as the air pressure assists the valve spring, so the hammer spring over powers the valve spring and it dumps the air.
My QB does the same thing.
-
IN REFERENCE TO SHOT STRING TESTING and ACCURACY TESTING USING 1750-PSI FILL w/GRAPH:
Here, this Poster got up to 22 shots in .22 Caliber. Although the Poster is using lighter 14.5-grain .22 caliber pellets, looks like the Flying Dragon-PCP is an effective Hunter! Please click on link to view the Accuracy Test results and the Chrony String Test results (Graph.). It is the 1st post on the page.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58507.new;topicseen#new (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58507.new;topicseen#new)
"I also went out and got an interesting shot group and some target practice in at 25 yards. Still shooting smaller than dime size groups (5 shots). For target I was shooting the 18.1 grain JSB diablos, and the chronied shot string was 14.5 grain RWS superdomes, average fps over 22 shots was 833.7, 22.3 fpe, with 18 shots at 800 fps or over. So I am happy with that string. I also shot some at 50 yards, but the JSB's didn't hold a great group, about a 3.5" drop from 25 yards and 1.5" group. Gun was at 1750 PSI. Enjoy."
* 25 yard group.jpg (35.16 kB, 400x372 - viewed 2 times.)
* shot chart.jpg (40.75 kB, 484x334 - viewed 5 times.) (From selittle.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ADJUSTING THE TRIGGER ACTION IN AN EFFORT TO ADJUST THE POWER OF YOUR FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:
"How many screws do I have to work with to adjust the power for the FDAR?
I know of the screw within the jamb screw all the way at the back. But I think someone mentioned another screw. I am not 100% sure.
Can please some one take some pictures and let me know what all of those screws are for?
Thanks and happy shooting!"
Here's the reply:
"The only other thing that might have effect on the power is the trigger group. Which can move forward or back a little. I have about 1/8" travel. If you move it forward it "might" decrease power because it will allow the hammer to sit a little bit looser. If you move it back it "might" increase the power because the hammer will be back further when the sear engages it-if it engages it as some have had issues with the sear engaging all the way back. I just set mine about in the middle." (From selittle".)
-
IN REFERENCE TO SHOT STRING TEST RESULTS and TUNING:
This is an average 923-fps and 27.05-fpe using 14.3-grain pellets! For the purpose of hunting, a shot count of 10-13 from a low-pressure PCP, such as the Flying Dragon-PCP is all you really need imho.
Job well done utilizing the Power Adjuster Screw Feature and the recommended 1500-psi fill in an effort to dial-in that sweet-spot!
I'd say the Flying Dragon-PCP is most definately a capable Hunter of small game!
"Finally... FD-PCP SUCCESS... :D ;D :D ;D
I shot several 20 shot strings today adjusting the power setting to various spots, never quite happy with the result. I finally found the holy grail (as a hunter, anyway) and was able to shoot this string:
(.22 cal, 14.3, CPHP, 1500 psi on my guage)
1 873
2 899
3 929
4 950
5 953
6 955
7 950
8 944
9 926
10 925
11 911
12 901
13 887
I did not finish the 20 shot string because I know the power would fall off rapidly. I will simply quit shooting and refill after shot 13. Most of the other strings I shot had the power curve shifted toward the end of the string, which for a hunter is not ideal. This setting shifted the power curve towards the front of the string which is better for hunting. The string is not perfect, but if I factor out the first and last shot I am pretty close to Bob's 4% . I know this setting is not for everyone, especially those more interested in shot count, but I am elated, it is exactly what I hoped I could do with the FD-PCP. Now for some accuracy tests!!!" (From smythsg.)
IN REFERENCE TO HOW POSTER ACHIEVED HIS RESULTS:
"This is how I achieved the hunting string I shot. I am not sure that this will work every time for everyone but it did for me. If you turn the power screw in (CW) far enough, the bolt will not catch and the gun will not cock. I then backed the screw out just far enough that the bolt would catch, so it is basically as far in as the gun will allow and still cock. It will be interesting to see if others have the same results that I did with this setting." (From smythsg.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO THE POWER ADJUSTER SCREWS LOCATION and TRIGGER ADJUSTMENT SCREWS:
"Trigger adjustments:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/SrWjHo3_zps732281b7.jpg)
I was pretty sure I did this in one of my other previous posts. But here it is again for posterity. ::)
Looking at this picture, starting at the bottom left, behind the trigger and moving up.
1)This is the weight, its a allen screw that controls pressure on a spring that pushes against the back of the trigger itself.
2) This is the sear/engagement adjustment. This will adjust creep. (First stage)
3) This is over travel. This controls how much the trigger an move after the sear breaks. Too tight here and trigger will not reset and gun will not function.
This is another pic better showing the hammer spring pre load. This hammer spring pre load is the ''power'' adjustment.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/c28d94f4-e454-4cbe-936f-a833a44165a5_zpsd38c2789.jpg)
Here is a second pic better showing the screw heads for the first three adjustments. You can just make out the nut for the preload adjustment above the tang.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/9ba262ec-af3d-44ca-b6a0-9693abe9411c_zps6ca13663.jpg)
Concerning Trigger group/Fire control movements. Any changes here will likely require RE adjusting all other settings for proper function. As mentioned, moving the Trigger group/Fire Control to the rear, a slight heaver preload is facilitated, conversely, moving it forward you get less. SOME have reported large changes. IMHO this is a result of not such a smooth operation of related parts. Also, some report these screws are VERY TIGHT. So please use PROPERLY sized tools and be careful.
Personally I suggest you leave it as it comes form factory, just check the screw torque. IF later you need to, try moving it. BUT make note of ALL factory setting BEFORE changing anything so you are able to return things to factory settings."
Hope this is clearer.
CW" (From cwlongshot.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ADDING SLING STUDS TO YOUR FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE w/DETAILED PICTURES:
You can certainly add Sling Studs to your Flying Dragon-PCP Air-Rifle! Here are some examples from cslongshots FD-PCP:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/b1cbf46b-dccf-444d-9ac7-aaae1d6f5410_zpsd89bc2ae.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/XISCO%20XS60c/7f276295-0722-4fa0-9037-d6c9b5871d4e_zpsfd78ec0f.jpg)
For details on how to mount Sling Studs on your Flying Dragon-PCP Air-Rifle, shoot cw a PM, I'm sure he'd be more than happy to give some advice.
Al.
-
IN REFERENCE TO FPE IN .22 CALIBER:
"I was just looking over my recent numbers and adding things up and realized... I have attained 30FPE!!
My shooting tonight was done with the Copper Kodiak pellets that shot well before. They weigh in at 21gs and at 823FPS I reached 30.58 FPE!!
Man this is fun!
CW" (From cwlongshot.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO USING THE POWER ADJUSTER FEATURE, EDUCATIONAL:
"Power adjusters work in different ways, some, like on the FD-PCP adjust the preload on the hammer spring.... This, which is the simplest type, primarily allow you to select the pressure range where the gun will have the best "bell-curve" (where the velocity starts a few percent low, rises to a plateau, then drops to the refill pressure), and to a lesser extent adjust for different weights of pellets.... If the hammer spring and weight are carefully balanced against the recommended fill and refill pressures, as in a stock Disco, that type of power adjuster is not needed, as the gun is already optimized for the best power level and shot count possible at those fill and refill pressures.... That is why Crosman didn't fit one, because unless you modify the gun it isn't needed.... Hatsan also have one, but it is buried inside the action (a simple mod can make it accessible from the outside), and it is loctited in place to optimize the gun for the recommended 190-200 bar fill pressure.... Improper use of this type of (preload) adjuster creates more problems than it cures, including shot strings that start high (albeit at slightly more FPE) and then decline with every shot, simultaneously creating an "air hog"....
The Air Arms rifles use a transfer port restrictor, in the form of a thumbwheel, which allow you to select widely different power levels without having to change the fill and refill pressures, and I think that is possibly the best type overall.... Some of the Korean rifles also use a thumbwheel, but it varies the amount the hammer can open the valve.... This type of power adjuster also allows you to vary the FPE level over quite a wide range, but at lower power settings it tends to deviate from the ideal bell-curve, instead producing a linear shot string where the first shot is the fastest.... The Marauder, which was intended to be tunable over a large range of fill and refill pressures, as well as power levels, incorporates all three adjustments, using 3 separate screws, one for each function.... This complexity allows the expert tuner to achieve wonderful things, but having three interacting adjustments is just plain confusing for many....
Having said all of that, I think it's really KEWL to see a power adjuster on a $100 PCP.... As all the newcomers drawn into the Darkside by it (the FD-PCP) get more familiar with how to best utilize it (the power adjuster), instead of being mesmerized by just cranking it to the max and seeing how much power they can get (for a few shots), they will find it the most valuable tool they have (next to a Chrony) to get the most out of a PCP.... With PCPs, tuning is everything....
Bob" (From rsterne.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO .177 TUNING, ACCURACY, SHOT STRING TESTING and IS VERY INFORMATIVE:
This is the first part:
"I received the .22 cal on Monday and received the 2 .177's yesterday with a note in the box that the .22 Cal . barrels would follow at the end of the month .
I pumped the .22 cal up to 1500 psi and proceeded to shoot in the dark at the tree line , the 1500 psi fill was almost too much , the gun was on the verge of valve locking . I shot it down till the point it sounded right and checked the fill pressure it was 1100 psi where the gun started shooting correctly down to the 600 psi mark .
I shot around 80 pellets thru the gun and then went indoors and took the trigger out and proceeded to adjust and polish the sear engagments , it is a wonderfully simply trigger arrangement and is very easy to adjust and polish out to a very nice hunting trigger .
I then loaded up again started to shoot another string to adjust and try out the new trigger job and it is wonderful indeed , after a few shots the gun dumped the fill pressure at the shot , I figured the valve gave way .
I pulled the gun down part way that evening and then finished the job completely dismantaling the gun 100% last night , it is a wonderful design and very easy to work on , this gun is the VW'S of PCP'S , it is wonderfully easy to work on and what I love about is that it is so easy to work on , fully adjustable trigger and an overall great design that is very affordable to own and operate , I have been following the thread that everyone is having problems with the guns that they got .
Well if your new to PCP's your going to have to pay your due diligence and will have a learning curve , if one has no mechanical aptitude or little to no patience then this or any PCP is certainly something that your going to have a hard time with .
One thing that everyone has to get a grip on is that this is a tinker gun , as Mike said , your going to have to work on it , it is a wonderful and very easy design that is going to be a wonderful gun for my needs which is hunting , I will set it up to give me 10 full power shots with very little deviation in velocity .
Some of you guys are valve locking these guns and how to unlock them is put your hand pump on them , pump them up till you hear the fill valve click open , then very slowly open your bleeder valve up and let the air creep out until you get down around 1200 psi or below , these guns need tuned to use higher pressures it would appear and you will have to do the work to get them there . If your gun will still bleed off air even if it is a little bit then keep dry firing the gun until one gets enough of a shot pressure to discharge a pellet and shoot the gun down and keep it down low on pressure until you get the work done to your gun to allow you to use the larger fill pressures .
As far as sights are concerned this is a pcp it deserves to have a scope on it , it is a long range set up , sights are for springers 30 yards and under , this gun is for + type ranges . Sights are to be taken off and a hush method to be used on the end of the barrel . with scope mounted and the sweet spot found with a chrony and all the data worked up for this gun .
I am going to put my .22 back together now and get off here , I found the valve seat cocked and I will explain in a night or so as to what is going on , but this little gun is a diamond in the rough and for $ 100 I will be buying several more to lay back and make wonderful little hunting gun for some friends , Oh don't worry about the fill tubes as a weak link they are not , it will take 8K to burst these things , the weak link is the two 5MM screws under the action , one holding the pin valve assy and the other holding the backing , but don't worry too much for in the machine shop we lift 12K chunks of steel with a hole drilled in the center and tapped using a 1/2" bolt to do the lifting .
The weak link are these 5MM screws but 2K is well within the stress limits for such things but do not exceed this much or your just asking for it unless you drill and tap more anchor points .
Had to jump on here and share this with you for it is getting out of hand and Mike will take care of things when he gets back , but everyone is going to have to work on these guns bar none , if you do not want to tinker then perhaps one should purchase a springer for PCP'S are a labor of love .
Now back to putting together my .22
Regards, Nick"
Here's is the second part. Please click on the link to see pictures:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59814.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59814.0)
"I put the .177 together with the parts from the .22 after I polished all the parts .
the inside of the main spring , outside of main spring , the spring guide , the hammer external and internal where the mainspring slides up into the hammer and the trigger group was all polished to a mirror .
The valve wanted to lock out of the stock gun at 1500psi now after the tune I charged the gun to 2000 psi and got the following string with the washer removed from the spring tensioner and screwed all the way in .
931
935
958
985
942
935
922
925
901
898
892
887
872
869
856
850
843
857
843
806
After getting what I wanted a 10 shot string that was this powerful , I proceeded to shoot a 20 shot group at 35 yards off of shooting sticks , will shoot off of bench in the future when I am done working on the little gun .
just wanted to see what she was capable of in the rough , I have found my little dream gun of $100 indeed .
Took the little girl hunting this evening for a short time and took this pair at 30+ yards one shot each .
Will be doing more to the little gun as we go along and I will post pictures" (From Nick Hammack.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO TUNING, SHOT STRING CURVE, FPE, ADJUSTING THE POWER and FPS, EDUCATIONAL:
"CW, if you can't get away from the first shot being the fastest and then every shot slower, even with the preload backed out all the way, you should look for a weaker hammer spring.... You have too much hammer strike for the pressure range.... You are perfectly correct, the term "used incorrectly" is relative, and if you are happy with the way your gun shoots, who am I to judge.... All I can tell you is what I believe to be the best way to tune a PCP, and that is for the velocities to start a bit below the peak (whatever that is), climb to a plateau, and then decline again.... How much variation you are willing to accept (the percent ES) along the way depends (for me) on the intended range.... If I am shooting within 50 yards, I find that a 4% ES is acceptable (although some suggest 3%).... for 75 yard use, you need to stay within a 3% ES, and at 100 yards, 2% or better.... If you are shooting at 25 yards or less, then a 10% spread between the fastest and slowest shot will likely not bother you.... Obviously, the larger the ES you are willing to accept, the more shots in the string you get to count....
Generally speaking, higher fill pressures will require a stronger impact from the hammer to open the valve, and vice versa.... In addition, but to a much lesser degree, heavy pellets will also require a heavier hammer impact, as will larger calibers.... On unregulated PCPs, the hammer strike is what you use to tune the gun to the pressure range you want (or need) to use.... If you want to detune the gun for more shots at lower FPE, you can also accomplish that by reducing the hammer strike, but it will usually reduce your usuable fill pressure as well....
Once you have the gun operating properly with the fill pressure you want, if you then want to detune the gun, you can do so by restricting the airflow by fitting a smaller transfer port or otherwise choking down the airflow.... The nice thing about PCPs is that you can make them do just about anything you want.... BTW, I put in my order for a .22 cal FD-PCP this morning.... *grin*.... It's going to become my son's Grouse gun, and my goal will be to tune it for 16 shots at 20 FPE using hopefully 18 gr. JSB Heavies, providing the gun will shoot those accurately.... That is what my current PCP Grouse gun does, and it fills my freezer every fall....
Bob (From rsterne.)
-
HERE'S A LOOK AT THE INSIDE WORKINGS OF THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP:
Images courtesy of Nick Hammack, Thanks Nick!
For some reason, I cannot get the pictures to up-load at this time.
Please click on this link for now, it is the 9th posting down:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59814.new;topicseen#new (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59814.new;topicseen#new)
Regards,
Al.
-
IN REFERENCE TO VALVE WORK ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP, SOMETHING YOU MAY, OR MAY NOT NEED:
This is again a situation where I cannot transfer the pictures, so you can click on image url, or please click on the link to see all of the details, it is the 8th post down on the 2nd page.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59814.new;topicseen#new (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59814.new;topicseen#new)
"This is a pic of the Flying Dragon PCP valve , notice the spring stand off that I made for the valve ."
http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2260.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2260.JPG)
"This is what the stand off does , it acts as a spring guide and a stand off for spring tension ."
http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF22631.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF22631.JPG)
"This is a pic of the stand off mounted in the valve cartridge ."
http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2261.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2261.JPG)
"This pic is of the valve cartridge with the stand off installed looking inside ."
http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2262.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2262.JPG)
"a lot of folks have been asking me about this and this is the only flaw I have found in the FDPCP which is pretty remarkable , this is a wonderful little platform for the tinkerer and the hunter for the stately price of $100".
Regards, Nick (From Nick Hammack.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO VALVE WORK ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP, SOMETHING YOU MAY, OR MAY NOT NEED:
This is again a situation where I cannot transfer the pictures, so you can click on image url, or please click on the link to see all of the details, it is the 8th post down on the 2nd page.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59814.new;topicseen#new (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59814.new;topicseen#new)
"This is a pic of the Flying Dragon PCP valve , notice the spring stand off that I made for the valve ."
http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2260.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2260.JPG)
"This is what the stand off does , it acts as a spring guide and a stand off for spring tension ."
http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF22631.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF22631.JPG)
"This is a pic of the stand off mounted in the valve cartridge ."
http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2261.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2261.JPG)
"This pic is of the valve cartridge with the stand off installed looking inside ."
http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2262.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2262.JPG)
"a lot of folks have been asking me about this and this is the only flaw I have found in the FDPCP which is pretty remarkable , this is a wonderful little platform for the tinkerer and the hunter for the stately price of $100".
Regards, Nick (From Nick Hammack.)
IN REFERENCE TO VALVE WORK ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:
This is just a possible alternative to the above mentioned, IF it is an issue for you, as it may not be:
My concern would be the guide robbing the valve of air. I know that Mike has taken some of these types of valves (QB-VALVES) and has taken the poppet, turned it down to fit the spring, so the poppet is a guide in itself.
You can also drill the center of the valve where the screw head is placed instead, to about .336 of an inch or less and then lengthen the slots downward another half inch, so that when the air-tube is screwed down to the seal, there is more slot exposed for more air to get through.
Beauty of the QB-VALVE in these I guess, is all of the modding that has already taken place over the years.
Respectfully,
Al.
-
IN REFERENCE TO IMPROVING THE VALVE ON THE FD-PCP IF NEED BE:
Here's a more detailed version of Nick's modification, more explanation. Scroll down to the 6th post to see another option for modifications to the valve:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1390869883/Flying+Dragon+PCP+Valve+Fix (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1390869883/Flying+Dragon+PCP+Valve+Fix)
Al.
-
IN REFERENCE TO O-RINGS FOR THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:
This is some good information on o-rings that you can consider for use with the FD-PCP, as well as where to get them. Most Auto Parts Stores have o-ring sets that you can purchase locally and can work just fine with an Air Powered Air-Gun. Remember, the valve in the FD-PCP is basically the same valve as found in the QB-LINE of Air-Rifles, but with a few little modifications by Mike M.
"Firstly to establish a context, we're talking about whether a polyurethane O-ring is needed for the -113 on the body of the valve.
In this application, regular variety Buna-N (nitrile) O-rings are fine. We're dealing with air, not CO2. CO2 will permeate through Buna-N; air will not.
You want urethane when an O-ring is subject to either abrasion through continuously sliding back and forth on a surface (especially where buildup of heat is a complicating factor), or when the O-ring is subject to being nicked or torn on installation. Polyurethane is tops for toughness if there is a slight burr or sharp edge that the O-ring passes when it is being installed.
The former isn't a factor here; it's a static O-ring. I don't think the latter is either. I don't have one of these rifles but if you install the valve from the end where the fill nipple was installed, I don't think the valve O-ring passes any sharp edges or holes. That can sometimes be an issue with QB rifles that have a tank block because of the two holes cross-drilled through the tube so if there are any sharp edges, debur them before you reassemble.
The way you install the valve is like this: only screw the valve halves together loosely so as not to compress the O-ring. Then slide the valve down into the tube and lock it into its home position by installing its screw(s) through the outside of the tube. Then as a final step, you reach down into the tube with a wide blade and engage the slot in the face of the valve and tighten it to compress the O-ring and form a good seal.
BTW for this step, I use a 3/4"W x 1/8" thick piece of bar stock from the hardware store. I needed to just barely round off the edges with a file to help it fit snugly into the tube, and I used an angle grinder to reduce the thickness at the tip so it would fit into the slot in the face of the valve. Works really well." (From nervoustrigger.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ADDING A PSI-GAUGE TO THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:
Here's a picture of a fully integrated PSI-GAUGE mounted in the stock forearm of the Flying Dragon-PCP Air-Rifle:
Complete details soon to follow!
(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/airgunwarriors/9a722a80-b9c1-4826-be73-a9d13cda37d0_zpsf5af8a87.jpg) (http://s847.photobucket.com/user/airgunwarriors/media/9a722a80-b9c1-4826-be73-a9d13cda37d0_zpsf5af8a87.jpg.html)
-
IN REFERENCE TO ACCURACY AT 50-YARDS WITH .177 FLYING DRAGON-PCP:
Please click on the link below to see all of the pictures. It is the very first post:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61921.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61921.0)
"I finished the work on the one gun , I made the trigger 24 oz. everything is polished to the max , the barrel has an extension on it , I re crowned the barrel and the final weight is 7 lbs. 4.5 oz.
I filed the gap between the barrel and the fill knob free floating the barrel and now the little gun is quite modest on the report as well with my extension in place .
The wind was blowing a might today and I did not want to go up the hill to the bench , so I got my shooting sticks out and used the rangefinder and set up a target at 50 yards after the sight in I shot the following groups using the .177 with 10.5 gr. CHP's .
I worked my way up on fill pressures shooting 5 shot groups and refilling to the next pressure level , I took the pellets straight out of the tin and did not police them at all , the next time I will shoot off the bench and will use a skirt flairing tool to see if I can get a bit better , from what I see I do not need an LW barrel at all , I know I can do better off the bench but as one can see it is not all bad right now .
Picture of the target is sideways so just orientate to the writing .
Best Regards, Nick
Best 100 bucks I have spent in a long time , Thanks Mike , I will be buying more soon" (By Nick Hammack.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO A SMALL "FIELD CARRY REFILL TANK" FOR THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP:
Please click on the link for more information, details and comments. The pictures are on the 9th post down on the second page:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61116.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61116.0)
"I received my 13CU/3000 tank with slide fill adaptor from Tim at MAC 1 and my first impressions are: NICE... it is exactly what I was looking for. Light weight, high quality, and works well. 1600 psi regulated;
I have tuned my FD-PCP to shoot a 7 shot string in the mid to low 900 fps range within a 4% spread and will top off the gun after the 7th shot.
918
924
932
929
923
913
902
The gun is pretty close to 1000 after the 7 shots and the buddy tank will fill it back to 1600 psi about 5 times, which is more than enough for a hunting day in the field.
One thing I have learned after receiving the tank is pumping to 3000 psi, even on a 13 CU tank, is a real workout. Only takes 5 or 10 minutes, but you will appreciate Mike recommending 1500 psi for the FD-PCP. Pumping from 2000psi to 3000psi will put you in shape if you are not already there... :o ;) :D ;D" (From smythsg.)
-
I had a bit of time today and did some testing with the .22 cal FDPCP
Got 730 fps out of 28 gr. En jin pellet
The following was at a 2K fill and shot down to 1400psi using CP's 14.3 gr.
970,984,975,961,959,947,935,923,913,896 I could have used a bit more fill pressure on this to utilize the bell curve a bit .
This string was a 2K fill and shot down to 1400 using Kodiak Heavy @ 21.1 gr,
880,865,861,849,837,829,820,807,796,781.
I upped the fill pressure a bit to 2200psi and shot the following using the Kodiak 21.1, looks very promising using the .22 cal and I think with a bit of warm weather and a bit of time is shall prove to be a very nice rig .
843,834,850,868,871,869,862,855,844,834,819,813,800,789,777.
The Kodiak's look like it is going to be very promising indeed we shall see how they shoot and I think it will be very consistant from the numbers I see with just a few minutes to play with today .
This takes the energy to 30.5 ftlbs with the cps at 14.3 gr, and 35.47 ftlbs with Kodiaks at 21.1 gr,
Regards , Nick
PS , DenSkin and I have been talking about what I should and can do on valve modification to this platform and I think I will be putting a .30 cal barrel on one of the ole girls and seeing what I can get out of it then , I do love this platform it is a wonderful 100 bucks spent , I can own a .177,.22,.25,.30 and still have no money in the project .
-
IN REFERENCE TO ACCURACY TEST RESULTS IN .177 and .22, USING DIFFERENT PELLETS AT VARIOUS DISTANCES:
Please click on the link to see all of the pictures and accuracy test results:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61555.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61555.0)
"The weather wasn't cooperating, but I had to shoot when I could. I've already been waiting a month since I got my .177 and .22 XS60C PCP rifles from Mike. The good news is that both have been holding pressure just fine. Started off here with Iowa air and topped off with a bit of the CA stuff. ;D
While viewing these results keep in mind;
1. I don't usually shoot groups. The makeshift "bench" in the first picture is my first attempt at this. I couldn't keep the rifle perfectly still between my poor posture (squatting) and gusting wind.
2. Both guns essentially unmolested. No barrel cleaning, adjusting, etc. Front and rear sights removed. Rear sight screw holes filled in with grub screws. That's it. Shots taken without LDC.
3. Weather consisted of overcast, gusting light/moderate winds, and at the end it started to sprinkle, then rain. Pics uploaded in the order they were shot.
4. For reference the penny is .75 inches.
5. Guns were recharged after every five shots.
Picture of the "bench" and the .22 with a BSA 4-16 tactical. The bench is a towel on top of a milk crate on top of a Rubbermade bin....
25 yards with 18.13gr JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy.
25 yards with 13.43gr AA Falcon.
45 yards with 18.13gr JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy.
45 yards with 13.43gr AA Falcon.
45 yards with 14.5gr RWS Superdome. Obviously the gun doesn't like these.
45 yards with 14.3 Crosman Destroyer (sampler pack).
45 yards with 14.3 Crosman Pointed (sampler pack).
45 yards with 13.43gr AA Falcon.
45 yards with 14.3 Crosman Domed (sampler pack). Lots of vertical stringing here. May be fill issue.
45 yards with 14.3 Crosman Pointed (sampler pack).
45 yards with 14.3 Crosman Pointed (sampler pack).
45 yards with 13.43gr AA Falcon. You can see the weather is really starting to deteriorate.
Waited for a dry spell, then went out and tried the .177 XS60C PCP. Again, weather deteriorated towards the end. Had to quit after testing two pellets. This rifle has a unproven Centerpoint 4-16 scope attached. Bought used and this is its first use. Seems to be fine though.
25 yards with 7.9gr Crosman Premier Domes from the box
25 yards with 7.9gr Crosman Premier Domes from the box
25 yards with 10.3gr Crosman Premier Domes from the box. One extra shot taken.
45 yards with 7.9gr Crosman Premier Domes from the box
45 yards with 10.3gr Crosman Premier Domes from the box. A few extra shots taken here. I like the grouping on the right.. the two strays not so much.
Final thoughts on the .22: I don't know which pellet the .22 favors... Just that for sure it hates the RWS Superdomes and possibly Crosman Domes. All other pellets seem to shoot about the same. I still can't believe I found something that can shoot the Crosman Field Points! You can tell from the extra groups I did to convince myself. This gun shot just fine on a 1500 psi fill but would valve lock at 1600. I can't wait to try shooting this in good weather! I know this one is going to be a shooter.
Final thoughts on the .177: This gun valve locks at less than 1500PSI. I had some issues with it. You can tell from the penetration on the target. The 7.9gr pellet skirts are visible in the 25 yard group.. but have sunk all the way in for the 45 yard test. I didn't even notice this until posting the pictures. More testing needed here for sure." (From vigilandy.)
-
Just a heads up, guys.... Unless you upgrade the valve screws, I would strongly suggest you do NOT exceed Mike's 1500 psi fill recommendation.... Please see this thread....
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62302.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62302.0)
We have no idea what the screws are made of, so I did the calculations assuming mild steel, and got a safety margin of only 1.8:1 at 1500 psi.... In addition, and again assuming mild steel for the tube, the threaded portion only comes out at 2.6:1 safety margin at 1500 psi.... It is possible, of course, that the screws are high tensile (although I've never seen them with Phillips heads) and the tube could very easily be CrMoly, maybe Mike could clarify that.... but unless we know for sure I would suggest treating the gun as if it was a QB 79 and fitted with a 1.8K burst disc on the regulator.... ie a maximum pressure of 1500 psi....
Bob
-
IN REFERENCE TO THE FD-PCP INTERNALS, THE MECHANICS BEHIND IT w/LOT OF INFORMATIVE and EDUCATIONAL INFORMATION:
This is a must read, it also includes many detailed pictures! Please click the link below to see them, it is the second post down:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62302.new;topicseen#new (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62302.new;topicseen#new)
"I completely disassembled the FD-PCP today, and did some measuring.... First of all, here are the parts.... You can pretty much tell from the photo where everything goes....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Flying%20Dragon%20PCP/IMG_4136_zps307c82a1.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Flying%20Dragon%20PCP/IMG_4136_zps307c82a1.jpg.html)
Here are a few observations about the construction, and some comments about the safety of the design....
1. The fill fitting has an internal check valve, there is no check valve inside the male Foster.... The means you can't use a "T" and install a gauge where the Foster is, it won't read the gun's internal pressure once the check valve closes.... The O-ring that seals the fill fitting is located in the threaded portion of the tube, so part of the threads are pressurized....
2. The back of the tube threads into the receiver.... There are lots of threads, so the shear strength isn't an issue, even though the receiver is aluminum of unknown quality, I wouldn't worry about that.... However, the tube seals at the inner end against a square-section O-ring which sits against a shoulder flush with the front of the valve.... As such, the threaded area of the tube is pressurized....
3. I measured the threads, and they appear to be 22mm OD x 1mm pitch.... While I couldn't find a listed diameter at the bottom of the thread groove, using the standard formula for Metric threads with a 1mm pitch, the diameter should be at least 20.6 mm (0.811").... The inside diameter of the threads in the receiver is 0.827", so the OD of the structural part of the tube certainly has to be smaller than that.... The ID of the tube is 0.745".... I do not know the material the tube is made from, but using 1010 mild steel (44K yield, 53K tensile), I get a pressure to yield of 3900 psi, and 4700 psi to burst.... At the 1500 psi recommended fill pressure, that works out to a 2.6:1 safety margin to yield.... If the threads are shallower, or the material is stronger, then that increases....
4. The valve is located by two 5mm x 0.8 mm steel screws of unknown quality in shear.... Since one of the load-bearing screws is in the steel block behind the valve, is it critical that the valve bear tightly against that block, otherwise only the valve screw would be taking the shear load.... I would highly recommend that when you have your gun apart that you check that, and if they are not in firm contact, add a thin shim between them to insure both screws are doing equal load bearing.... The threaded portion of the screw is subject to the shear load, so I used the minimum listed minor diameter and calculated a total shear force of 1154 lb.f. for the two screws, assuming 1010 mild steel with a 53K tensile strength (32K in shear) .... With a 0.745" ID for the reservoir, at 1500 psi, the load on the valve is 654 lbs. which means the safety margin is 1.8:1.... If the screws were upgraded to high-tensile screws, this would increase, and I would highly recommend that anyone contemplating using more that the recommended fill pressure confirm that the screws are up to the job.... Where the valve screws penetrate the receiver, you could see faint marks from where the threads of the screws were pressing on the back of the hole.... However, the material is thick enough that I was not concerned about the bearing load at the recommended 1500 psi, but it is something to keep an eye on each time you have the gun apart....
5. I noticed that the valve stem only protrudes 0.100" from the back of the steel supporting block.... That limits the valve lift to that distance, although the poppet itself is capable of much more.... I have not measured the actual lift in the FD-PCP, but it would not surprise me that the striker is hitting the block at the low pressure end of the shot string.... This is not likely the case in a properly adjusted shot string at the high pressure end, because the valve is achieving self-regulation.... but it could result in the right hand (low pressure) side of the shot string dropping off quicker than it should if there was more lift available.... This may be the reason for the very limited (approx. 400 psi) pressure range I was seeing between fill and refill when restricting the string to a 4% ES.... I am going to machine 0.050" off the back of that block to allow more lift before I reassemble my gun to confirm this theory.... I have already determined that it is possible to take off 0.080" and still have the striker hit the block without the pin hitting the end of the cocking slot in my gun....
6. I measured the porting on this gun, and to be frank, IT'S HUGE !!! .... The valve throat is 0.205" and the stem is 0.118" giving an equivalvent diameter for the throat of 0.168".... The exhaust port on the valve is 0.195", and the port through the receiver is the same.... The barrel port is 0.162", which is right at the recommended maximum for a .22 cal bore.... About the only thing I can see where you could possibly improve the flow would be to drill out the throat slightly to 7/32" (0.219") and round off the transition between the throat and the bottom of the exhaust port.... No other changes would be necessary for .22 cal, IMO, and in fact the valve is capable of being enlarged to flow well for a .25 cal by increasing the throat to 15/64" and angling the port with a 3/16" mill.... A 3/16" barrel port for the .25 cal barrel would complete the changes.... I did notice that the barrel port was slightly forward of the hole in the receiver, although not enough to shroud it, but if you were building a .25 cal you would want to make sure they lined up better....
In conclusion, the gun is pretty well made, especially considering the price point.... Like most guns, it can benefit from disassembly and cleaning, checking for burrs, and polishing up the hammer, sear, and trigger contact points.... and making sure that bolt functions smoothly, then reassembling with the proper lubes.... With the size of the ports, it is not surprising to see the power the gun puts out, but also not surprising to see the rather "peaky" power curve, which leads to a shorter shot count within a decent ES.... I have made a new fill fitting with integral gauge mount as shown below....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Flying%20Dragon%20PCP/IMG_4139_zps4d69d244.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Flying%20Dragon%20PCP/IMG_4139_zps4d69d244.jpg.html)
The O-ring is moved inboard of the threads, and it takes up less volume in the reservoir.... I added a check valve to the male Foster fitting....
Bob" (From rsterne.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO FILL PRESSURES, SAFETY MARGINS and MORE OF THE MECHANICS BEHIND THE FD-PCP, EDUCATIONAL:
Please read this if you are considering exceeding the recommended fill of 1500-psi:
"The original XS-60C was designed for CO2.... Since that can be reached 1900 psi at 120*F, a prudent designer would design for a MSWP of 1900 psi and allow a safety margin well above that.... A perfect example is the CO2 tanks which go by weight.... They are rated at 1800 psi MSWP (used as the standard for CO2), and carry a 3K burst disc, as that is the pressure that they are Hydrotested to.... If out of date, you can't get them filled, they must be retested.... The XS-60C shares many features with the QB-7X rifles, including, presumably originally a tube that is 22mm OD x 1.5mm wall and therefore 19mm ID.... Even in mild steel (44K yield, 53K tensile), a tube of those dimensions would yield (start to stretch and not recover) at ~7000 psi and burst at ~8400 psi.... The tube Mike has used appears to be the North American equivalent size, which is 0.875" OD x 0.065" wall, which means it is larger on the OD and smaller on the ID (but only 0.003"), and hence stronger.... However, he then threads it to the same 22mm x 1.0mm threads as the stock gun, he has to so that it will fit the receiver.... So, now, assuming the tube is still mild steel of the same quality, the strength of the two tubes, at the bottom of the threads (the thinnest part) is virtually the same as it was before.... Now let's look at that part....
I couldn't find a spec. for the dimensions of a 22mm x 1.0mm thread (it's a bit of an oddball size) to the bottom of the thread, but there is a "Standard Metric Formula" for thread dimensions, and for a 1mm pitch on a 22mm thread, the diameter of the bottom of the grooves comes out to a mimimum 0.811".... assuming the threading was done to that standard.... If a die was used to produce the threads on the tube, that is a safe assumption, if it was done by "single-point" threading in a lathe, then there are two other variables, the depth of cut and the point on the end of the threading tool.... and those could cause significant variations between individual guns, with no way to calculate them, so I assumed that 0.811" measurement.... So, instead of using the 0.875" OD that Mike started with, or the 22mm (0.866" OD) of the original tube, we have to use that 0.811" OD when calculating the wall thickness.... Mike's tube is 0.745" ID, slightly smaller than the 19mm (0.748" ID) of the factory tube, so it picks up a tiny bit there.... but we are dealing with a tube (measured to the bottom of the threads) of 0.811" OD x 0.033" wall (instead of the 0.065" wall it started with).... That works out (using mild steel as above) to ~3900 psi to yield and ~4700 psi to burst.... for a safety margin of 2.6:1 at Mike's recommended 1500 psi.... Incidently, the original tube, at 1800 psi (recognized as the MSWP for CO2).... with it's slightly larger ID, and again assuming mild steel, is ~3700 psi yield and ~4500 burst, for a safety margin of 2.1:1.... This means that if it was subjected to a Hydrotest of 5/3 the working pressure, ie 3000 psi, it should pass.... at least once before there was any fatigue.... The screws, on the other hand, would be right at their shear limit, depending on the material they are made from....
So, we are in a situation not unlike a QB79.... The tube is plenty strong enough, but the holes for the tank block are too close to the end, causing a weak point that has been known to fail at 2600 psi when the stock is not in place, ripping the tank block from the end of the tube and nearly shearing off the stock (very soft) tank block screws in the process.... Like the XS-60C, it would appear on the surface to be plenty strong enough for 1800 psi, but when you look at the details, it comes uncomfortably close to failure at what would be the Hyrdotest pressure of 3000 psi for CO2.... I do not know if this is a cultural difference, but I have a gut feel that the lawyers in a North American firm such as Crosman would highly frown on pushing the design of ANY part of a pressure vessel to those limits.... Once you go to a safety margin of less than 2:1 with steel, you are guaranteeing that eventually fatigue will be a problem.... It becomes a matter of when, not if, a part will fail over time with repeated flexing (filling).... Even using a safetly margin of 3:1 isn't a guarantee that won't occur, because holes, threads, and imperfections in the steel itself lead to increased stresses in the metal (called stress risers) which even though the part as a whole isn't exceeding 50% of the yield stress, locallized portions are, and that can for cracks and lead to failure over time.... Like anything else in life, there are no guarantees, but it is prudent to hedge your bets, and not to exceed 50% of the yield strength of steel components to hopefully avoid fatigue failure....
Please realize that I intend no criticism here for Mike Melick.... He has used the same engineering numbers as were used on the stock XS-60C, which was designed for CO2 use, and in fact because his tube is 0.003" smaller on the ID, it is slightly stronger with the same external threads.... If he chose CrMoly tubing for the reservoir, then the safety margin at yield can be increased to 3.7:1 at 1500 psi, and it would be 2.8:1 at 2000 psi.... Likewise, if a thicker wall tubing was used (smaller ID), the safety factor would drastically increase, but of course a custom fill-fitting would be required to fit the smaller ID.... We are still left with the fact that without a valve screw upgrade that remains the most likely point of the gun to fail.... If you upgrade the screws, then the next thing to look for is the tops of the screw threads pressing dents into the aluminum receiver as the load will eventually exceed its yield strength.... Unless you really know what you are doing, I would strongly suggest you stick to Mike's recommended 1500 psi fill pressure.... I, for one, will not exceed it, and if I was going to build a bottle gun, I would make sure that the regulator had a 1.8K burst disc installed,, just like I would on a QB 7X....
Bob" (From rsterne.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO .22 CALIBER SHOT-STRING TESTING WITH THE FULL-POWER TUNED FLYING DRAGON-PCP:
The following is initial testing after the completion of a Full-Power Tune and Polishing.
Power Adjuster and Trigger Group set to its lowest power output. The Power Adjuster Screw was turned all the way out and the Trigger Group moved all the way forward. 2000-psi fill.
14.3-grain
1. 861-fps
2. 870-fps
3. 878-fps
4. 889-fps
5. 884-fps
6. 902-fps
7. 908-fps
8. 911-fps
9. 915-fps
10. 930-fps
11. 929-fps
12. 927-fps
13. 920-fps
14. 911-fps
15. 898-fps
16. 880-fps
17. 863-fps
Average velocity= 910-fps.
High fpe= 27.46.
Please Note: the first 2 shots and the last one are out of the 36+ or - that 4% allows with a 910-fps average.
If I wanted everyone of those shots to be in the mid to high 900s, would just be a matter of turning the screw in a bit, but I like just where it is now, until further testing is performed that is and we may find something better.
Tried out a 32.4-grain Eun Jin and got high 780-fps with 44-fpe!
Still some fine tuning to do, but extremely happy with the results thus far.
So that I can increase the shot count in the future when shooting the 14.3-grain pellets, some further adjustments will be made.
Respectfully,
Al.
-
IN REFERENCE TO SHOT-STRING TESTING WITH .22 FLYING DRAGON-PCP, USING 14.3-GRAIN PELLETS:
Extremely happy with these results! When Bob (rsterne) comments that something is "excellent", you know you are doing something right!
All credit goes to Jason B. (JTB530), as he is the one who has performed all of the Tuning, Polishing and Modifications. Full report and pictures soon to come, along with accuracy results.
Power Adjuster set to lowest power setting, i.e., the Power Adjuster Screw is all the way out.
14.3-grain Shot-String:
1. 906-fps-
2. 912-fps-
3. 917-fps-
4. 927-fps-
5. 936-fps-
6. 936-fps-
7. 943-fps-
8. 934-fps-
9. 932-fps-
10. 924-fps-
11. 912-fps-
12. 905-fps-
Started with a fill of 1850-psi and ended with roughly 1150-psi. (From AirGunWarriors.)
Bob's (rsterne) comments or break-down of this shot-string:
"Al, here is the efficiency calculation for that string.... which was a 4% ES....
Average 924 fps.... 27.1 FPE x 12 shots = 325 FPE total....
700 psi used = 700psi/14.5 = 48.3 bar.... 115 cc/16.4 = 7.0 CI.... 48.3 x 7.0 = 338 total CI of air used at 1 bar pressure....
325 FPE / 338 CI = 0.96 FPE/CI efficiency....
Bob"
-
IN REFERENCE TO THE POINT OF VIEW FROM A NEW OWNER OF THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP w/DETAILED INFORMATION:
I found this post to be very interesting and chock full of detailed information from someone that has just taken possecion of his all new FD-PCP Air-Rifle. Really great write-up that's worth checking-out, especially for those still sitting on the fence!:)
Please click on the link below, there you will also see some really nice pictures:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62773.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62773.0)
"So after kicking around buying a simple, single-shot .22 or .25 with open sights that I could use for relatively close and personal pest control around the house, I decided to give the FD a shot as a lot of the mods, tweaks, etc that people are doing and reporting seem to prove that for $100, the platform is pretty decent ... Well, the gun arrived today, so I got it out and took a good look-see - and was actually quite impressed, other than the white goo on the buttpad everyone seems to have found this rifle actually has a better feel and appearance than a Hammerli Pneuma I bought (and returned) last year (and THAT gun was far from $100 !!!)
SO ... being as I had read that Mike seems to ship these with a charge (and my nitro setup is in the garage which is about 1/4 mile from the house so no way of actually seeing if it was full or not other than shoot it) I figured "what the heck" and threw a H&N 19gr in her and headed out to the deck, aimed at my little Gamo 1" spinners at my 20M shooting station and PING - first shot with open sights, actually nailed the shot. VERY impressive ...
Not wanting to get *too* excited (and of course, realizing it was likely a fluke that I actually hit the spinner) I grabbed another pellet, came out and tried the same thing at one of the golf balls hanging off of my 30M Shooting Station - with the same result , hit it (not a "direct" hit, the ball moreso swung sideways so I guess you'd call it more of a good graze but HEY - open sights, unadjusted at 30M? Good by me, LOL)
NOW, I'm torn - this was supposed to be a fun little popper for critters that are too close for any of the scoped guns, but it seems to actually have some darn solid potential - and I just HAPPENED to have a Simmons and some high dovetails laying around, hmmmm ... Obviously, You can see where THIS is going :)
At this point, I'm off to grab some Soft Scrub (already have the WD ready) so I can give the barrel a good cleaning, going to do a fast teardown just to make sure everything is tight and right, so to speak, and even though it's about 12 degrees outside I don't care - I'm going to print up some targets and see what this silly thing can do. If it's as good as the first prelim test shots show then I'm just ordering another one for pest shooting, THIS one will get tuned up and will be a GREAT little gun for the Golf Cart or maybe even the "Other Half" (who has been bugging me for her "Own" gun lately) - WOW. So far I am pretty darn impressed !!! (OH - AND 6lbs 4oz SCOPED - once everyone gets together and the final verdict is in on the PROD magazine conversion this could be a really sweet little hunter!)" (From BrewCityMusic.)
-
IN REFERENCE TO SHOT COUNT WITH THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP:
I found this to be a pretty awesome demonstration on just how many shots you may actually have before the POI starts to drop too much. So, let's say you have a nice 4% or better bell curve and that it gives you 13-shots in .22; well, try the following and see just how many more accurate shots you really may have:
(Please click on the link to see the images, it is the 12th post on the page: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62773.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62773.0))
"OK - after the groups above, I drew out a straight set of lines and started shooting them left to right *just to see* at what shot the POI started to drop ... As You can see, shots 13 through 21 were dead on or a tad high (prob my fault, I wasn't really worried too much about technique here, just putting them left to right in a line and likely pulled the high ones myself) with shots 22 and 23 just a hint low (still touching the line but definitely on the bottom side) ... Shot 24-26 were within 1/2" of drop, and from there it's pretty self-explainatory ...
NOW - before anyone "flames out" on my decidedly unprofessional and amateurish approach to these initial tests, I am just trying to give some real world "Pellets on Paper" answers to those who don't really care about shot curves, the magic 4%, which material is better to use when turning a new higher-whatever valve stem, who can machine what better than who to squeeze another 100fps, etc but just want an idea if A) the gun is an accurate one out of the box, and B) how many useful shots can someone expect without resorting to learning and performing those sort of things. I know when *I* first got into playing with these AG's, those were the questions I had and sometimes around here it can be a bit difficult to get a straight answer that a newbie can understand, and especially ones that aren't just subjective opinion, etc but are backed up by again, pellets on paper under controlled and documented conditions and circumstances.
THAT SAID, I am totally impressed with this gun. Out of the box with a basic cleaning that anyone can do on their kitchen table (or workshop, depending on how forgiving the "other half" may be of your hobbies) it's pulling 1/4" groups at 33yds without basically ANY break-in, and on a 1700psi fill it's getting 23 shots with 13.43g JSB's without a noticeable drop in the point of impact. For NOW, that's all I was really hoping to find out, and I like it. So much in fact that I might just leave it alone (which of course sounds good but is very VERY unlikely, LOL)." (From: BrewCityMusic)
-
IN REFERENCE TO CLEANING THE BARREL ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP:
Please click on the link below and scroll to the 9th post on the page to see what it is you should really be doing upon receiving your FD-PCP:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62773.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62773.0)
"Well I didn't tear into it yet, but I did give it an initial "test cleaning" using spiderwire fishing line, trimmed patches, and god old-fashioned "Goo Gone" - which definitely proved that pulling the barrel and doing a thorough cleaning is likely not just an "option" but a necessity :
(to be perfectly accurate there was ONE wet and ONE dry patch pulled through prior to this using the old standby "weedeater" method, but as I mentioned above with the length of the bolt probe, etc that method was a real pain in the ***)
I'm giving it a half hour to dry out in the rifling and will pull some more through and see how clean I can get it with "conventional" means then sight it in and see where it's at so people who aren't familiar or comfortable with maintainance like pulling barrels, etc can see what to expect with a minimum of easy prep and setup" (From: BrewCityMusic)
-
bump
-
IN REFERENCE TO IF YOU ARE HAVING ANY PROBLEMS WITH AIR LEAKING OUT WHEN TRYING TO FILL THE TUBE:
Here's a link to another thread on GTA that may help you figure out how to fix the above mentioned issue:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=63060.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=63060.0)
Should you have anymore questions about the subject in the link above, please post questions in the thread found in the link above.
Respectfully,
Al.