GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: nervoustrigger on January 10, 2014, 03:29:33 AM
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As a consumer of roughly 30 tins of Crosman pellets, in both .177 and .22 calibers, over the last year and a half since becoming an avid airgunner, I’ve come to think of them as a good all-around pellet. Sometimes bordering on great. Certainly in many cases grouping as well as brands costing 50% more. And their availability at most Walmarts make them very convenient. It’s no wonder they seem to be the most widely used pellets out there.
Most people when seeing Crosman’s boxed variety for the first time will ask, “What? I can walk into Walmart and buy 1500 (3 tins) for less than this box of 1250. Why would I pay more and wait for shipping?” Those in the know will tell you it is because they are all made from the same die. That gives the best possible pellet-to-pellet consistency which in turn translates into more consistent groupings.
Having experimented with my share of premium brands like JSB and H&N, I felt like there was an important shooting experience I had not yet availed myself of: the much-vaunted Crosman boxed pellets.
You see, my son’s .177cal QB79 turned in some pretty impressive groups (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=49719) with the 10.5gr Crosman Premier Ultra Magnums (CPUMs) back in the summer at distances out to more than 40 yards. And that was just with Crosman’s floor sweepings…the rejects…the ones so ordinary they could be sold to the unwashed masses. So just imagine what the boxed pellets would do, right?
Well, when member Stickstoff graciously tipped us off to a breakneck after-Christmas sale on Crosman.com, I knew that would be my chance to finally answer the question.
The package arrived today with 3 boxes of the CPUMs. On opening them, I was pleased to see the mold parting line was barely noticeable to the naked eye. Not the invisible (or nonexistent) parting line of JSB pellets, but hardly noticeable. But hey, I don’t want to set my expectations too high. It’s a good start.
Then that positive note was quickly soured when I saw the widespread presence of gnarly flashing peering out from under the vast majority of the skirts…the same junk in the pellets from the tins that I have been seeing. I guess I had the wrong expectations for Crosman’s “Premier Premiers”.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=5221)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=5222)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=5223)
There were also a surprising number of bent skirts, despite no apparent damage to the shipping box:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=5224)
Now on the upside, the pellets do seem to group well in the QB79. Just grabbing pellets at random, I turned in a couple of groups of 0.47” and 0.38” at 25 yards. I know this rifle to be capable of producing 0.25” – 0.35” groups with regularity at that distance but I can’t rule out me as the reason with such a small sampling.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=5226)
What I do seem to see in those first two groups is potential for greatness. For example, without the errant shot in the first group, it would have measured 0.25”. Many of the pellets are going through one ragged hole.
I will continue testing with some of the worst-looking chaff omitted and report back in a few days. I will also get some head measurements to check them for size and consistency.
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Nice reporting. I look forward to your next post of performance.
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the skirts on the cphp's from walmart look better than that. but I have found that bent skirts don't really affect accuracy too much. even with the top end pellets, which I generally have to drop to get bent skirts from.
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I'm about to buy yet another couple of 1250 lot boxes of the CP Lites in the next day or two. I haven't really seen any ghosts in the wood pile in the past but then again I haven't really looked. I have however, noticed how well they group and that's what's important. I'll gvie a large handful of them the once over inspection after I get them. Thanks for the pics and advice...
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I just placed my first order of the CP lite domes. Since the Walmart tins of the 7.9gr HP did so well I figured what the heck, let's order 10,000 of them from PA. Pay for 6 and get 8 brings the cost to about the same as buying the tins of the "floor sweepings" (I like that one)
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;D Nice review I have 3 boxes of the CPHP .22 and a Box it the CPHP .177 to check out bot have held off until I use up a bunch of partial tins
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So far I've had pretty good luck with the brown box Crosman pellets. My 1320 really likes the .20 but sad to say they are not being made any more. I do have enough to shoot for awhile now though.
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Definitely not hand picked. Thanks for the update.
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I had a box of the .22 14.3 Crosman. Actually, I had four. In one box I found .22 caliber, .20 and (wait for it) .15 caliber pellets. I do not buy by the box anymore. Tins for me.
BTW When I sold my .22 I gave the buyer the pellets.
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Great review.
There were also a surprising number of bent skirts, despite no apparent damage to the shipping box:
(http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy80/jmneal1/CPUM%20177/04_zps31ffbabd.jpg)
Not surprising with the weight of the higher pellets crushing the lowers. Dial-in rough handling during shipment and the casualties add up. Obviously, smaller containers minimizes the damage. Tins also make it easy to grab'n run when hunting - no fishing out handfuls then searching for smaller containers. The saving in tins makes it a no-brainer.
Box (625ct) = .040 ea. SH= $8
Tin (500ct) = .017 ea. (4 tins - one free = .014 ea.) SH = $12
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I've found flattened pellets in so many of the containers that I have ever bought regardless of brand. If they are not too bad I just reshape the skirts and use them. They seem to go ok. It only takes the slip of a hand to drop a cannister or box and even if the container isn't damaged, the pellets inside can be.
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Results of measuring the heads of 20 samples of the boxed .177 Ultra Magnums:
There was an extreme spread of 0.005" (0.13mm) which is very similar to that of the pellets in the tins. Standard deviation is 0.0011". None of the pellets measured had the gross mold flashing issue (i.e. was not deliberately selecting the worst pellets).
Such a wide variation is extremely disappointing for pellets supposedly from the same die. The box is marked Die J, Oct 01, 2013 for anyone wondering.
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"And that was just with Crosman’s floor sweepings…the rejects…the ones so ordinary they could be sold to the unwashed masses."
People keep saying that, and it's not so. Tinned pellets come from several machines/dies mixed together. Not rejects, not from worn out dies, not floor sweepings. Boxed pellets are collected from one machine/die.
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not from worn out dies
I beg to differ.
As the forming dies used for the die lot marked and dated pellets wear out of specification they are retired to use for the unmarked mixed die pellets in the tin. The tinned pellets are indeed from mixed "worn out of spec" dies which explains the wide variation of pellet fit.
Anywhoo.......years ago when the CPLs were numbered dies I bought one particular case of 4 boxes of die #7 CPLs that contained a LOT of swarf plus a BUNCH of pee-wees. The cases of "lettered die" CPLs I've bought over the last couple years have been so clean and consistent that I don't even pre-sort them anymore. I just lube them with Slick 50 ONE LUBE (not the engine stuff), then dump them into my pellet pouch for use.
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I am a big fan of the Boxed Premiers.
If you think about it...if you can manage to make and pack and ship pellets, in the 99% percentile...you can still have some 1-3%, that aren't perfect. No biggey here with what I've gotten. I wonder sometimes if the count is probably more than 1,250, to account for it, but I've not counted them out.
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Did all three boxes have the same type of damaged pellets or just one so far? Also, about what percent were un-shootable? Just curious.
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Someone recently posted about their conversation with a Crosman employee during a plant tour. He asked about the boxed pellets and was told that indeed they use new, tight tolerance dies for the boxed pellets and once the die falls out of their desired tolerance range, they move them to production of the pellets sold in tins.
Incidentally, my "floor sweepings" comment was just a lighthearted attempt at some humor. I didn't mean it as a slam on the pellets in the tins. As I said before, I do like them; I tend to get better-than-average results with them and the value is good.
Now with that said, I am stunned with the poor consistency of the boxed .177 CPUMs. I've seen a lot of positive comments about the CPLs but I haven't seen much on the CPUMs that I can recall, so I hope the pellets I received are an abberation but this being my first experience, I cannot in good conscience recommend people to buy these particular pellets at the premium price. I got them on sale so that assuages my heartburn a bit.
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Hi Jerry, I only inspected one box so far but all 3 boxes have the same mfg date so I expect they have the same defects.
As to the percentage that are unshootable, that is a bit of a gray area. About 50% have noticeable slivers (flashing) stuck to the skirts. But I don't tend to think that is so much of a hindrance to accuracy as the wildly variable head sizes. With sorted pellets having .178" heads (4.52mm), my son's QB79 will group CPUMs around 0.15" at 25 yards and 0.35" at 42 yards. That's just unreal so that's why these pellets are such a disappointment to me. I feel like so much unrealized potential has eluded us because of poor quality control. Granted, there were no guarantees that I would have received 4.52mm nominal but with such a wide variance, groups are definitely being thrown off.
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Im a big fan of the Boxed lots from Crosman in .177 I shoot both the lights and heavys but the .22 at a 625 ish count from teh box is not so good. I have been buying 4 tins every PA order when I get them I dump each tin in to a micro fiber towel roll them aroud to clean them up and put them back in to a padded tub witha good sealing lid, and I get just about the same results of not the same results as I do from teh Boxed .22. If you put a little time in to the Tins they are and can be jsut as good in my book. My only gripe is that the need to make the .22 boxes bigger.
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Jason, If they truly are that poor then by all means contact Crosman about it. They're good folks and unless they get your input, they don't know if there's a problem within their process equipment and personnel. If they are bad, they'll replace them. But they will ask for numbers.
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Hi Bullit, yes I intend to do that now that I have some better data. I should have mentioned it.
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I've been using .177 CP Lites in a "few" of my rifles now for only about 2+ years now. I have only ever bought them in boxed lots. The CP Lites have quite impressed me in I think, any .177 calibre rifle I have tried them in on average. However I have one or two rifles that have already proven themselves with other pellets, so I can't justify changing,, you know, the old "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" thing. Then comes the .22 Premiers, again boxed lots of 625's only... Same thing, I have tried them in just about all my .22's and each and every time, they have almost totally impresses me. Sure you get the occasional flier or times that groups just don't form that well but most times this is probably more down to me than the rifle because the next time out, same rifle, they perform well, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's happening here...
I just bought a couple more boxes of .177 Lites the other day and I always check any production markings on the underside of the boxes before buying them, and this time I noticed there were a date stamped instead of like the last lot I bought maybe a year or more ago which I'm sure had a code and a die number on them...
It was guys in GTA who recommended CP's in either calibre and I have never regretted buying and using them...
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Results of measuring the heads of 20 samples of the boxed .177 Ultra Magnums:
There was an extreme spread of 0.005" (0.13mm) which is very similar to that of the pellets in the tins. Standard deviation is 0.0011". None of the pellets measured had the gross mold flashing issue (i.e. was not deliberately selecting the worst pellets).
Such a wide variation is extremely disappointing for pellets supposedly from the same die. The box is marked Die J, Oct 01, 2013 for anyone wondering.
I'm pretty sure that I have three boxes from the same die and approx date. I've only opened one. I didn't notice any damaged pellets. My QB79 loves the boxed pellets. Keep in mind I don't shoot groups though. Minute of walnut at 20-25 yards. I will take some measurements this weekend to compare with your numbers. I'll also check the 10.5gr domes I have.
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After about 300 shots I found a deformed skirt on one pellet. Still shot just fine. My biggest concern is that these shoot so good I will have shot all 10,000 of them before Spring!
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Well, I feel vindicated. I shot a few groups with pellets straight from the box and then sorted through a pile with calipers until finding 5 that measured 0.178" (4.52mm) and shot those. The unsorted pellets gave an average of about 0.5" at 25 yards. The group with sorted pellets measured 0.155".
I know I should sort out another 5 but the first ones took forever and I'm getting cross-eyed.
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Are most of the heads less than 4.52? I wonder if it would be possible to take a small cake pan or piece of stock and drill holes all along one edge to act as a go/ nogo gauge for the heads. Toss in 10 or so pellets at a time and shake them down to the holes to see which ones fall through, which ones get just the head through, and which ones just tip up and lay on top of the holes.
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Are most of the heads less than 4.52? I wonder if it would be possible to take a small cake pan or piece of stock and drill holes all along one edge to act as a go/ nogo gauge for the heads. Toss in 10 or so pellets at a time and shake them down to the holes to see which ones fall through, which ones get just the head through, and which ones just tip up and lay on top of the holes.
LOL.......After noticing a LOT of pellet fit variation with H&N FTTs I did some pellet head measuring. My measurement procedure was to slowly close the dial caliper on the head of the pellet until I could just lift the pellet from the desk top. I positioned the pellets in the same position in the caliper and at the same location on the formica surface.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Pellets/H-NPelletCaliper.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Pellets/H-NPelletCaliper.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Pellets/PelletMeasureb.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Pellets/PelletMeasureb.jpg.html)
Here are the head sizes of H&N FTTs from the last 5 tins I bought. I had one tin of labelled 4.50s and 4 tins labelled 4.52s..........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Pellets/DSCN0210.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Pellets/DSCN0210.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Pellets/450HnFtt.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Pellets/450HnFtt.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Pellets/452HnFttb.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wved/media/Pellets/452HnFttb.jpg.html)
I did find that the pellets sorted according to head size fit the leade of the barrel consistently which was the goal of the measuring!
Another interesting thing was when I measured "Die D" Crosman Premier light pellets using the same method. Out of 10 CPLs measured 8 measured exactly .177 and two measured .1765. LOL, seems that the CPs I measured are indeed considerably more consistent that the H&N FTTs.
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You got me curious so I sat down and measured the heads of all the pellets I had. The Crosman Brown Box .177 were the largest and most consistent. I hope my Challenger groups them well as they are also the cheapest. 20 of them averaged 7.975 grains on my powder scale.
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(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/1512734_580325898713193_1030740168_n.jpg)
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1551567_580325935379856_2085568976_n.jpg)
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(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/999943_580325895379860_1937565328_n.jpg)
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When Crosman replaced my SS they also sent a box of the Heavies with a note that they were better for accuracy. I consistently shot rats at a measured 20 yds over bait and off a rest under a porch light at night. They worked great and front on head shots were no problem.
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Finally got some new batteries for my calipers. Here's my numbers. Boxed 7.9gr CP domes.
4.55
4.56
4.51
4.55
4.56
4.52
4.56
4.56
4.55
4.53
Average: 4.545
This was a random selection from the box. 7 of 10 within 0.01mm. Other three off by a bit more. Good or bad? Never measured my pellets before!
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I know that this is very unscientific, but as a neophite it is also very reasuring. I purchased my very first springer a Crosman Venom not knowing what to expect. I have dabbled in .22 bench rest, but air rifles are a foreign animal. After cleaning and breaking it in per instructions I broke open a box of .22 Crosman Priemer 14.3 domed pellets. Firing at 5meters, the chosen distance for a family league weekly postal/text competition, after sighting in I fired 5 pellets of the above. The result, a round hole approximating a .30 cal round and measuring .155 center to center. This is great confidence builder. Unfortunatly the league shooting is offhand. I will probably never see the equal, but am happy with the potential.
outdoorguy
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Really great pellet sorting information, glad I came across this thread.
Al.
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;D It would take me several weeks of nonstop measuring the 12,000 or so pellets I have so I'll just opt for the ones that give the best results out of the box or tin and accept the flyers as mostly my bad and an occasional act of God ;D ;)
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For shooting at just 10 meters I have found the wal mart cphp, premier competition, and destroyer pellet work great and they are cheap. All my rifles shoot at least one or more into a ragged hole. I think after 10 meters the more costly ones are needed
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now I feel like I need to break out the calipers or a mic and start measuring and sorting.
I buy the boxed heavy domes. I get a few fliers now and again. Sometimes I know it's me. Sometimes not. Seems like the thing to do next time it's 2am and I can't fall back to sleep. Measure pellets.
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Seems it would be worth investing in a affordable caliper and scale.
Fortunately, my barrel very much likes the .22 Caliber 18.1-grain JSB Match Diabolo Exact Jumbo Heavies! ;D
As great a pellet that the JSB 18.1-grain pellets are, there are still bound to be some bad ones that will need to be tossed to the side.
Any recommendations on the type of scale that is "affordable" that I should use, would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
AGW.
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I'm getting good groups with the Crosman Brown Box Premier pellets out of my Challenger.
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(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/l/t1/1621844_592387037507079_929906179_n.jpg)
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I'm getting good groups with the Crosman Brown Box Premier pellets out of my Challenger.
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(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/l/t1/1621844_592387037507079_929906179_n.jpg)
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I'd say so!
As I mentioned before, my AR really likes the JSB 18.1-grain pellets, but it also like the lighter 14.3-grain CPHP and Domed. I prefer domes, so I will more than likely purchase the boxed version of the crosman 14.3-grain domed pellets.
Al.
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Wow. I never measure my Crosman pellets. Though I do measure my Daisy and Winchester pellets and they are better than that. Actually for a low cost pellet the Daisy pellets are great, and with pretty consistent head size, they are just soft so you need to watch for bent skirts.
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Granted I've only bought Daisy pellets once but the head sizes were all over the place, trending undersized. They shotgunned badly in 3 rifles. It was a 4-type sampler in .177 cal.
Over time, my experience has indicated the magic pellet for a given rifle will be either a JSB, an Air Arms, or an H&N...with the probability being in that descending order.
I've heard some good things value-wise on the Winchesters so I may try them sometime but I am once-and-done with Daisy pellets, and I have suspended purchases of Crosman at least until they demonstrate some general improvements in their QC.
I am one cheap SOB but, as the saying goes, only accurate guns are interesting. By extension, inaccurate pellets are uninteresting. I'm just not into shooting cans; I want to drill small holes in paper so I can then confidently put the pellet in the fusebox of small game and pest species. To me, missing a single pest or, worse, wounding an animal isn't worth the price difference between an $8 tin of Crosman's versus a $14 tin of JSB's. It's the allure of accuracy on the cheap that keeps me coming back to the inexpensive ones. Just seems like it averages out to be more economical to spend a little extra on the better brands when I look at all the partial tins of lesser pellets collecting dust on my shelf.
Oops, sorry for the soapbox speech, got a little carried away there! ;)
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I got suckered in to buy the boxed heavies and I got 8 rifles and not one shot them better or close to the tinned lighter CHP's I get in wal mart. I was surprised at the results
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Granted I've only bought Daisy pellets once but the head sizes were all over the place, trending undersized. They shotgunned badly in 3 rifles. It was a 4-type sampler in .177 cal.
Over time, my experience has indicated the magic pellet for a given rifle will be either a JSB, an Air Arms, or an H&N...with the probability being in that descending order.
I've heard some good things value-wise on the Winchesters so I may try them sometime but I am once-and-done with Daisy pellets, and I have suspended purchases of Crosman at least until they demonstrate some general improvements in their QC.
I am one cheap SOB but, as the saying goes, only accurate guns are interesting. By extension, inaccurate pellets are uninteresting. I'm just not into shooting cans; I want to drill small holes in paper so I can then confidently put the pellet in the fusebox of small game and pest species. To me, missing a single pest or, worse, wounding an animal isn't worth the price difference between an $8 tin of Crosman's versus a $14 tin of JSB's. It's the allure of accuracy on the cheap that keeps me coming back to the inexpensive ones. Just seems like it averages out to be more economical to spend a little extra on the better brands when I look at all the partial tins of lesser pellets collecting dust on my shelf.
Oops, sorry for the soapbox speech, got a little carried away there! ;)
That is ok. I agree that I want to put small little holes in paper so that I know that I will get one shot one kill on anything that I hunt. And that is where my opinion on Daisy pellets comes from, though only the ones in the tin not the sampler, and only in .22 cal, not .177.
Winchester are the way to go for .177 in my guns.
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For what it is worth, my last two boxes have been unusually hard to seat. Their new die or whatever is significantly larger than the 4.52's I usually shoot.
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Nervous I was actually interested in what you had to say.
Like you I am a cheap SOB.
However unlike you I have pretty much totally lost my need/desire to kill anything.
Something has to REALLY wet me off to get me to change my mind about that.
So far I have tried a variety of pellets but mostly of the cheaper kind.
One thing I wanted to point out.
A Crossman Premiers pack 500 to a tin, at 8$
B JSB's some are 300 to a tin, others are 500, but it looks to be double the price.
For you, knowing you hunt, knowing you want that perfect kill I'm sure its worth it.
However for me, knowing the odds of a pellet finding flesh are less than that of winning the lottery, I'm happier with the cheap Crossman premiers.
I think the company's really are hoping we won't notice just how many or how few pellets are in a tin.
And if your money flow's like water I'm sure you can ignore cost of pellets entirely.
Some of us are getting by on a dime, and are afraid we'll be squeezed down to a nickle.
Viva La Difference!
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Granted I've only bought Daisy pellets once but the head sizes were all over the place, trending undersized. They shotgunned badly in 3 rifles. It was a 4-type sampler in .177 cal.
Over time, my experience has indicated the magic pellet for a given rifle will be either a JSB, an Air Arms, or an H&N...with the probability being in that descending order.
I've heard some good things value-wise on the Winchesters so I may try them sometime but I am once-and-done with Daisy pellets, and I have suspended purchases of Crosman at least until they demonstrate some general improvements in their QC.
I am one cheap SOB but, as the saying goes, only accurate guns are interesting. By extension, inaccurate pellets are uninteresting. I'm just not into shooting cans; I want to drill small holes in paper so I can then confidently put the pellet in the fusebox of small game and pest species. To me, missing a single pest or, worse, wounding an animal isn't worth the price difference between an $8 tin of Crosman's versus a $14 tin of JSB's. It's the allure of accuracy on the cheap that keeps me coming back to the inexpensive ones. Just seems like it averages out to be more economical to spend a little extra on the better brands when I look at all the partial tins of lesser pellets collecting dust on my shelf.
Oops, sorry for the soapbox speech, got a little carried away there! ;)
well said! My experience with Daisy pellets has been similar. But luckily my bone stock P17 shoots anything, including them well. But I still won't hunt with them. Some are so undersize they fall right through the barrel!
And like you, 1 shot better be the kill shot ;)
I'm cheap as well. REALLY cheap. So cheap if a AG won't shoot one of the locally available pellets ( CPHP's, EX's, Winnies or Gamo) I have no use for the AG. I just can not bring myself to pay shipping on pellets.
I have this sneaking suspision that Winnie pellets are made byDaisy. BUT they are not bad. Really not bad for the money.
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NT. please tell us the way you really feel.
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@Ghosth:
Interesting perspective.
I am a cheap one as well. And I hunt to eat. So guess what, accuracy is important to me. And the most accurate pellets in my guns are inexpensive. Daisy Pointed in my .22 guns, and Winchester Domed in my .177's. I got luck and got guns that like cheap food :) .
Though I can understand that some shooters are vegetarians and as such do not want to kill anything. being a meat eater I know that even if I could afford to buy meat from a store I am still kill-ing it (by purchasing it and driving the market), and I am not that rich.
When you live on way way less than $10000 (ten thousand dollars) per year and you have everything you could possibly want you learn to provide your own food.
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Just seems like it averages out to be more economical to spend a little extra on the better brands when I look at all the partial tins of lesser pellets collecting dust on my shelf.
Those cheap, lesser pellets are good for something. I just bought myself a chrony and will using my dusty tins of pellets tuning. ;D ;D
Andy
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Glad to see this thread. I just bought 10,000 of these because they are reported to shoot well in the rifle I just bought. I can stand some flyers for the price. I also plan to test all the pellets around the same weight. Whatever shoots the absolute best, I plan to stock up on those, despite the cost. They will be used when shooting with friends (friendly competition) or hunting. When I'm alone and not solely shooting for groups, I will shoot the crosmans in the box.
Side note, do yall lube yours?
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I wash, no lube
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I wash and lube.
Wash is done with Purple Power (degreaser), then with dishwashing soap. Soap alone isn't enough to cut the oil that some pellets have from the factory. Despite being two steps, it goes quickly with a wire strainer basket at the kitchen sink.
Then lay them out on a cloth to dry, and finally tumble them with a few drops of liquid wax (bicycle chain lubricant like Krytech or White Lightning).
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I wash and lube.
Wash is done with Purple Power (degreaser), then with dishwashing soap. Soap alone isn't enough to cut the oil that some pellets have from the factory. Despite being two steps, it goes quickly with a wire strainer basket at the kitchen sink.
Then lay them out on a cloth to dry, and finally tumble them with a few drops of liquid wax (bicycle chain lubricant like Krytech or White Lightning).
I've been blessed with an .22 air-rifle that shoots both the higher priced JSB and lower priced Benjiman Discovery Extreme Hunter pellets very well. The JSB pellets a bit better between the two.
I enjoy plinking and use the lower priced Benjiman Discovery Extreme Hunter pellets for that, but when hunting time comes, it will be the higher priced and more accurate JSB pellets.
I do also enjoy the fact that my plinking pellets are local and under $9.00 for 400 of them to an assorted pack.
(4 varieties of pellets to choose from and 3 out of the 4 shoot pretty accurately and have thus far been consistent.)
The JSB pellets cost twice as much than the Benjiman Discovery Extreme Hunter pellets (14.3-grain), but the 18.1-grain JSB pellets provide more energy and top-notch accuracy. Also, when hunting time comes, I do not expect to be shooting several of the higher cost pellets per outing, so I expect that the higher expense when purchasing the higher priced JSB pellets will not be that often.
MAC1 happens to have a great deal on the JSB line of pellets by the way.
My local Wal-Mart finally started carrying the .22 CPHP pellets for under $9.00, 500 to a tin of course, but I like the variety of pellets I get from the Benjiman Discovery Extreme Hunter pellets, even if there's 100 less pellets and of the 400, my .22 air-rifle really only cares for 300 of them, lol!:) Again, for plinking, all 400 pellets will be put to use.
Side note: I have shot pellets cleaned by "nervoustrigger" and his method of cleaning pellets works!
(quoted "nervoustrigger" for a reason)
Respectfully,
Al.
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I pretty much shoot regular crosman pellets (wadcutters), some Daisy, some Winchester. We don't have any pests around here to shoot except those that are let out at night to deficate in my yard. :-\
And sometimes I have to chase a herd of deer out with my 760 and BBs at three pumps. So I am usually punching paper from 10 to 25 yards in the back yard.
My adventure in pellet purchases was last winter: I purchased an order of 8 boxes of Crosman pellets when a big sale was on. To my surprise, I found a large white plastic mailing bag on the porch.
This turned out to be my several thousand pellets. They had been so abused that there were holes in the bag (taped up). The boxes were broken open and hundreds of loose pellets inside. Needless to say, I returned and received a full refund so this cost nothing exept a bit of a delay. But I began to wonder how much shake, rattle, and roll is inflicted on pellets in transportation and warehousing.
My experience led me to think more about PA and their description of how they pack and handle pellets........ Very impressive! And probably worth a bit of a premium provided their pellets are not abused before they get them.
This was fun and entertaining thread to read.
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@Ghosth:
Interesting perspective.
I am a cheap one as well. And I hunt to eat. So guess what, accuracy is important to me. And the most accurate pellets in my guns are inexpensive. Daisy Pointed in my .22 guns, and Winchester Domed in my .177's. I got luck and got guns that like cheap food :) .
Though I can understand that some shooters are vegetarians and as such do not want to kill anything. being a meat eater I know that even if I could afford to buy meat from a store I am still kill-ing it (by purchasing it and driving the market), and I am not that rich.
When you live on way way less than $10000 (ten thousand dollars) per year and you have everything you could possibly want you learn to provide your own food.
Hunting seasons are so short so how can you just live on what you hunt if you do it legal?
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mista meener,
Some western states have year-round cottontail rabbit seasons.
Most having 10 bunny per day limits.
Better n' chicken!!
Can't shoot 'nothin' with an airgun here in PA ...
Cheers,
Smoketown
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mista meener, my lunch today is going to be "Squirrel with Smoked Sausage" baked in the oven in foil. Our Squirrel Season ended February 28. How is it possible I am able to dine on squirrel today LEGALLY? I freeze some of what I kill for later consumption. I do the same with fish I catch - not because of season limitations but because I catch more than I can eat at one meal. I am thinking that many out there do the same. It works for me.
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This has been a VERY GOOD read ! I have been using Crosman Premiers ,both hollow point and domed , in 4 air rifles . Three are in 177 and one in 22 . Also trying other brand pellets , but always coming back to the Crosman . The findings of all you men agree with mine as far as cost and accuracy. I will now settle in and just enjoy killing a can or two as well as poking holes in paper. -------------------------------------Good Shooting to all------------ Papa Smurf
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In New Zealand we get two different qualities of Crossman Premiers. Wills Hunting and fishing sell boxed 1250 lots or at least sold them to me. They have a red stamp on the box and are substandard to the extent that they are a DON"T BUY. They were cheaper than the black stamp ones. The other sort are in the same box but with a black stamp. They are excellent quality and better than Webley Accupells which are really the same pellet but not quite as well processed for quality control. They are however pretty good.
In my never humble opinion you would seek far to get a better 7.9 gn pellet than a CPL . I have not tried the heavy ones but I bet they will be just as good if that is what you need.
PS I am talking about .177. Must get some .22 for my Sharp Innova.
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For the past couple of weeks, I've been shooting my newest Daisy 853. Today, I took out my Diana 34 and shot a variety of pellets at 25 yards. Under "Lake Wind Advisory" conditions, the best 5 shot, dime size groups were with CPHP. ;D
So to answer the question; no, the Crosman boxed pellets don't do it for me in any of my rifles. I wish I could find some more Air Arms 7.3 gr. Falcons and 8.4 gr. Diabolos. :'(
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I found this interesting --
http://youtu.be/fRN1Am8RBgs (http://youtu.be/fRN1Am8RBgs)
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Reading all this closely, good thread. I've used the tinned CPHP but not the boxed so far. The tinned have big flashes down the sides. Ok in my D34 for plinking. My favorite has been the .177 Superdome, but now I have to tins that fit loose. New dies ??? Looking for a replacement, considering the boxed CPHP or H&Ns.
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I found this interesting --
Link to Ted's video on pellet sorting
http://youtu.be/fRN1Am8RBgs (http://youtu.be/fRN1Am8RBgs)
Hi Bill,
This thread is getting pretty long so just in case you didn't see it, in this post (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59397.msg575042#msg575042) I sorted some of the boxed CPUMs with consistent heads and shot a 0.15" group from 25 yards, whereas the unsorted pellets grouped over 0.5".
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I found this interesting --
http://youtu.be/fRN1Am8RBgs (http://youtu.be/fRN1Am8RBgs)
Interesting and frustrating that here is so much difference from tin to tin of what you thought were the same thing that worked well before.
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This thread is about the "boxed" pellets. Tinned pellets are not from the same die, so that's why they are inconsistent.
I also saw a post that they didn't work for him. Perhaps if another die marked box is tried, (ie: "D" vs "B" etc.), the results will be different.