GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: singleshotcajun on January 05, 2014, 08:09:02 AM
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It seems the only current source for Bam,Xisco,Industry,SAG ....whatever B 3 series rifles now are Amazon and South Summit. South Summit used to have a few different variants from plain to deluxe.About four years ago I bought four of the deluxe ones and gave away three,still have my .22 B3-3,good luck getting it away from me. I still have my trusty B3-1 bought from toolsnow, it wears a Williams GRS peep and never fails me. All three I currently own have been tuned by me and two are great and one is just a dud with a bent barrel.
I would like to "build" up another using a Williams FP target peep.
Trying to find(does not have to be a B3 or a "cheap" rifle) a springer under 750 fps fixed barrel under lever or side lever with a grooved receiver for the peep sight and a metal post front sight(hate fiber optic sights) for Silhouette practice in my back yard.
I currently use my AR2078B most of the year and my old B3-1 in cooler weather.
Anyone have a line on B3 rifles other than the ones offered on Amazon or South Summit.Apparently the B3 series is still being manufactured in all variants but does a US distributor import them?
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DP Wholesale.com has some of the break barrels. You have to spend $100 minimum and you are supposed to be a dealer. That wasn't hard to get around and I bought 5 of them at $21.xx each.
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I've also been looking for another B4, I have 2 now, one in .177, and the other .22, both are modded. I did quite a bit of work on the .177, and it now shoots like a dream, and w/ close to 900fps w/RWS Hobbies, The .22 not so much, but I did manage to get it up past 600fps(610fps w/ Hobbies), They are an extremely durable, and solid gun, ordnance grade steel, and beneath the krappy finish is actually a nicely grained "Chinese" hardwood, I think it's beech. There are lots of "Industry" rifles around, but I think if you specifically want a B3, then I think you may want to try "Compasseco" http://www.compasseco.com/ (http://www.compasseco.com/) ,they have almost all of the products sold under the "BAM" name, although I think they're all called "TechForce" now, In the U.K. they're sold under the "SMK" brand-name, I think that there are quite a few Chinese factories all making the same gun, I think there was also a factory that put these guns out with the brand-name of "Snow Leapord" as well, I'm sure it would take you a while trying to figure out what comes from where,LOL, Cheer's, Andy.
If I find any on-line dealers for the B3 series, I'll post it,,,Come to think of it, Doesn't "Cummins" still sell B3's?
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Compasseco is now called Pyramid Air . I think the Techforce line is what Compasseco/Pyramid calls the Industry line of air guns. I have not seen a Cummings air rifle in quite a while. Cummings used to run traveling tools sales company they sold the B3 at these sales and on their website. My B3-1 from Toolsnow.com was marketed as American Camper
B3-1 American Camper from Tools now.This series of b3 has a steel pin that the cocking lever rides on so coking the rifle places zero stress on the stock.Later versions have a plastic "bearing" in the stock for the lever.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/cajuncj/air/IMG_2462.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/cajuncj/media/air/IMG_2462.jpg.html)
B3-3 from South Summit
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/cajuncj/air/B3-3/IMG_8118_zpsd2052323.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/cajuncj/media/air/B3-3/IMG_8118_zpsd2052323.jpg.html)
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Did a little customising on some of my B2-1s. I've shared these pics before but, thought they may interest you. They are all .177 @ 550 fps. They were $21.xx each at DP Wholesale. Here are: 1) Harley 2) Frog 3) Sleezy and 4) Woody
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I also have 2 of the B3-2 underlever, 1 in .22 and one in .177. I'll snap some pics of them and share them later today. I picked those up at our local flea market for $35.xx each but, I know for a fact that the vendor got them from DP Wholesale as well. He has a break barrel pistol in .22 that I've been considering. I don't mind paying a little extra by going thru him because , as I said, DP Wholesale has a $100.00 minimum on orders. Had I thought about this when I bought the 5 B2-1, I would have gotten 1 of each model.
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I've always liked the B4 series over the B3's, Especially the ones that i got all those yrs ago, the XS-B4-2A's,,much better than the B3-2's, and they're roughly the same price,,If you have a chance, take the B-4's over the B-3's any-day. Cheer's, Andy.
I'll also post pictures of mine later on today, I'll even try and find a pic of an XS-B2-2A, that I owned a few yrs back, It was a tack-driver, I dropped a Crosman Quest 1000 spring into it, and I was getting 750fps in .22 w/ Daisy Field Point's,,,Alas, It was ripped off on one of my deployments,,,Man, I must of killed 50 Huge Norwegian Brown Rats in Kosovo,.Great gun, very easy to tune,,If I had a chance, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat.
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I've got a bunch old chinese guns. I bought two B3-1's (one in each cal.) six or seven months ago at a local flea market. That guy keeps several in stock as well as B2's and 1's. They all have a small red "R" and made in china on them. I later got a couple of B2's and a B1 from him (all $25-$35). The only other place I've found I can buy them individually is lostworld.com thru Amazon. I got a .22 B3-1 with the front sight mounted on a 9mm dove tail($35 + shipping) and a new type of B3 in.177 with a trigger safety and molded plastic trigger guard along with a .22 B1(didn't have one in .22). They were $45 and $30 and $25 shpg. The Amazon guns had no markings. A few weeks ago I bought three old B3's totally disassembled from a fella in N.C. All the parts along with my parts bucket is enough to get them all shooting. Two of'em turned out to be XSB4-2's(look like B3's, different inside).
Andy mention the B4-2. I rebuilt another one way back along with the two AK's. They all seem to group better than most old chinese guns. I wonder if XS's have just got better barrels?
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I have a B3-1 and B4. Both are probably around 10 years old. I am currently working on going over the B4 since it has a &^^& refinish job on the stock. The B3-1 however is like new and has been fired maybe 5 times. I may be looking to part with it but it would cost as much to ship as what it is worth.
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As you say, shipping is more than they're worth. That's why I keep'em and I like'em anyway. Anyone can hit targets with a $600 gun and a $200 scope. This is a fun challenge to me.
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I've done some research on all these guns we are talking about, They are made in China by the Shanghai company for the most part. I love these cheapies. The underlevers are surprisingly durable and accurate to about 20 yds. Summit sells the rebuild kits (QF-2). The break barrel still have the leather barrel seals (weak link). It's hard to find one without filler putty in the stock. We have 2 indoor flea markets within 25 miles from my hous, each hase a booth in it that sells all the stuff from that DPWholesale site. They both have these guns. There is a .22 pistol with wood grips. It boasts 400 fps. $25.00 might be worth a look.
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I've got two of those pistols. One off amazon and one from the flea market. They're S2-1's according to the SAG catalog. The .177 averages 316.09 fps.(high351.4/low276.2). The .22 240.1(high 249.4/low220.5). Big spreads. At first at 21 meters I could hit a sheet of copy paper more times than not. With a little practise and sight adjustment off a rest they would shoot 3-4" groups with a couple of flyers now and then. Take care, that front sight will cut you.
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I've got two of those pistols. One off amazon and one from the flea market. They're S2-1's according to the SAG catalog. The .177 averages 316.09 fps.(high351.4/low276.2). The .22 240.1(high 249.4/low220.5). Big spreads. At first at 21 meters I could hit a sheet of copy paper more times than not. With a little practise and sight adjustment off a rest they would shoot 3-4" groups with a couple of flyers now and then. Take care, that front sight will cut you.
Yep, I noticed the sharp edge on it when I was playing with it at the flea market. My first thought was to make a cocking extention for it like the Benjamin Trail NP pistol. Just so happens, Betty Lou and I are going to the flea market today because I have the day off and it's something to do inside. It will be hard to walk past that darn thing again without picking it up. Stay tuned for how that works out.... lol. Speaking of cold, (apologies to those up north) I went out to the shed and set up a 20' indoor range and took the Powermaster 66 out for a little paper punching. I was shooting those plastic skirt pellets that Chuck at Crosman sent me as a gift. I had forgotten that I left a pump or two in the gun and added another 4 pumps. Bad idea. The steel bb stuck in the wall but the plastic skirt found it's way around the shed a landed on my makeshift shooting bench. The next 4 shots at 3 pumps punched a jagged hole in the paper That's when I realized that the shed didn't provide must shelter from the cold.
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I bought a B3-3 from amazon last march 2012. I haven't done anything to it at all.
I just take it into the backyard shoot it, and have fun. I had to crank the rear sight
up all the way, but it it is pretty accurate, and so far, reliable. No complaints here...none at all! ;D
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Mine hit a couple of inches high with the sight all the way down. Bent it per Barrel bending 101 in the Home projects (tricks&tips) gate.
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Yep, there's always a way if you put your mind to it. ;D I have a old scope that's just laying around. I might mount it to the B3, and see how it works. If it works out...good, if not, no big lose. The scope is an NCstar compact. About 8 inches long, so it won't cover the loading port. I also mounted a scope stop on the rails so it won't slide back.
I had this problem on it when I previously tried mounting a scope. We'll see what we'll see!
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BTW Tim. Since you mentioned the barrell bend trick....I might give that a shot. Can't hurt,...might help!
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LOL.... Look what followed me home from the flea market.... I ran some googone thru the barrel and a few drops of lube down the port. Put a 16.20 Gamo Master Point in it and popped my 15yd. target a couple times. I was surprised how quiet it was. No twang, it reminded me of the feel I get from the gas rammed Nitro Venom. I'm sure that's due to the short stroke and wood grips and steel. No plastic on this little jewel. Daggonit, I need a chrony. (on the list) The sun makes it look warmer that what it is but, I might have to brave the elements and play with this thing some more.
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John, when you bend the barrel read the barrel bending in the tricks &tips gate first. Little steps at first.
The jig is easy to build.
Bill, Wal-mart chrony $85, free shipping. It's a simple one, you got to do the math.
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John, when you bend the barrel read the barrel bending in the tricks &tips gate first. Little steps at first.
The jig is easy to build.
Bill, Wal-mart chrony $85, free shipping. It's a simple one, you got to do the math.
Yeah, I seen em. I'm savin my pennies cuz I want the ProChrony Digital. I like the USB connection to the laptop.
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I found this this morning
http://www.sharpimport.com/177-caliber-4-5mm-double-barrel-spring-air-pellet-rifle.aspx (http://www.sharpimport.com/177-caliber-4-5mm-double-barrel-spring-air-pellet-rifle.aspx)
about the same price and no minimum order.
I got two more coming. I like to order from different sources to see if I can get a different models. I've ordered the same model from the same source and got different variants. I really want to find more of the ones that have the steel pin that the cocking lever rides on.
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i Know this is a little off-topic, But Xisico has come out w/ a New Break-Barrel pistol, The Xisico XSP180, http://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=55 (http://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=55) , I have one in .22, and for the money, this shooter Rock's. Muzzle Velocities inbetween 450-499fps w/ Crosman Domes, Excellent accuracy, and it looks cool too, Reminds me of the "Wilby" Charles Bronson had in Deathwish 3(I think?), Anyway's, If you get a chance to pick one up, I highly recommend it, esp,. for the Tree-Stand, You never know when you'll see a Grouse/Partridge/Turkey while you're waiting for that WhiteTail. Cheer's, Andy.
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For $25, that would be a fun little pistol to play with!
I need one!
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or 2
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Several factories have made variations of the B3 - Shanghai/Industry, Norinco, Snowpeak, etc. My three are all unmarked, so I'm assuming they're Industry brand; all three were purchased off a Cummins trailer for $20. All three have leather piston seals. Two have the (older) white plastic spring guide, and one has a black plastic spring guide with a metal rod down the middle. That last one is also distinct in that it has a one-piece cocking link. The others have two-piece articulated links, requiring that "button" or rubbing point in the stock mentioned earlier.
They are crude, ugly, inaccurate, and underpowered - but the fun per dollar index can't be beat. Especially if one likes tinkering. The ghosts of B3's past, present, and yet to come:
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Yeah Tim, gonna take it slow. Don't want to go overboard, and screw it up....
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I'd like to have a dash 2, which looks like what they have at Sharp import. I can't tell by the pic shown at DP wholesale. Anyone order an underlever from either of these folks ?
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I'd like to have a dash 2, which looks like what they have at Sharp import. I can't tell by the pic shown at DP wholesale. Anyone order an underlever from either of these folks ?
I have 1 B3 in .177 and 1 in .22 that I know for a fact came from DP Wholesale. Both are really good shooters at 20 to 25yds out. Note: Be sure to clean these guns out before shooting them (barrel and piston chamber). Heavy tar the main spring, pollish and moly the piston and trigger sear. Deburr the cocking slot. Pollish and moly the linkage (where it slides in the cocking slot). Inspect the piston seal for gouges. Put a touch of oil on the leather barrel seal and shoot the heck out of it. I bought 5 of the B2-1 break barrels in .177 from DP Wholesale and 2 of those work really well. 2 are so so and one is basically a parts doner. If I had it to do again, I would have bought the B3s.
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Thanks Bill. Looks like I'll be better off going with the ones from Sharp imports since I know for sure they are B3-2's. A few bucks more, but no guess work there.
Thanks again for the info.
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Thanks Bill. Looks like I'll be better off going with the ones from Sharp imports since I know for sure they are B3-2's. A few bucks more, but no guess work there.
Thanks again for the info.
Be careful following advise from me, I've been exposed to the effects of lead and smoking gun oil. Others here may have different opinons.
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Hey Bill, as long as you're not smoking lead soaked in gun oil....it's all good. ;D
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A B3-2 is the same as a -1 except it has a monte carlo stock, a rubber recoil pad and the rear sight that clamps onto the 11mm scope groves. There is the newer one with a trigger safety in front of the trigger, monte carlo sock and rubber recoil pad and a nice looking molded plastic trigger guard. I've seen some call it a -3 or -4. The -3 I've seen, the cocking lever clips into the bottom of the front sight like a B36.
The newer one I'm talking can be seem by googling:
New pellet rifle gun B3 5.5mm 22 caliber real wood with saftey. You'll see it in Amazon. lostworld.com sales them thru amazon. $45+$15 shipping
Substitute 5.5mm 22 caliber with 4.5mm 177 caliber if you would rather have that. (I've got this one)
Leave off trigger saftey and you' ll see a -1 with a front sight that slides onto a 9mm wide dove tail on the end of the barrel. $40+$15 shpg. (I've got one tis one in .22)
B1 5.5mm 22caliber air pellet gun rifle real wood will show you that one. $30+$15 shpg.
B1's in .177 seem out of stock as well as either B2
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You guys are making me want a B3 LOL!
Were are you buying parts? Right now it appears only a few places have parts.
Thanks,
BZ
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I found this this morning
http://www.sharpimport.com/177-caliber-4-5mm-double-barrel-spring-air-pellet-rifle.aspx (http://www.sharpimport.com/177-caliber-4-5mm-double-barrel-spring-air-pellet-rifle.aspx)
about the same price and no minimum order.
I got two more coming. I like to order from different sources to see if I can get a different models. I've ordered the same model from the same source and got different variants. I really want to find more of the ones that have the steel pin that the cocking lever rides on.
$50 minimum order so I would have to buy at least two more...
Stop me before I buy again. (But it feels so right) ;D
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You guys are making me want a B3 LOL!
Were are you buying parts? Right now it appears only a few places have parts.
Thanks,
BZ
No parts available to speak of .Never break a trigger because the only part that you can buy is the sear. I dropped a barreled action an broke a trigger shoe then brazed it back together (eliminating the first stage in the process) after I found no replacement. For replacement parts I buy more rifles :).
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Archies got parts. Breach seals, leather and plastic piston seals, sears and sear springs, new barrel clips for the cocking arm to snap into, 11mm clamp on rear sights, and the Q2 B3 cleaning kit has seals, a sear and sear spring and a main spring as well as a cleaning rod and some brushes and mops and some oil. Some say the oil is bad stuff. It's just oil, slick like the rest. They're just B3's.
Like the other guy said don't break a trigger.
If you break the plastic spring guide and can't fabricate a new one, I cut them off at the big part the retainer pin goes thru, drill a 7/16" hole in it and J.B. weld a 7/16"X 4 1/4" steel rod in it.(Home Depot, cut'em with a hack saw) I've done a couple like that. Haven't had them back out yet to see if they're still in one piece. The guns shoot ok. They weren't perfectly straight but just a couple of degrees off. The plastic ones bend that much.
On two of these I'm doing now I'm using a Gamo Silent Cat rear sight and the front sight off a B1 so ancient it doesn't have scope grooves and on the other a AR2078 front sight.
If you get what looks like an old B3, but it has a metal spring guide it's probably an old XS B4-2. The trigger is different also. B3 sear and sear spring want work in it. I got a couple of those I'm rebuilding now along with an old B3. They all had rust and pitting on the exterior and camo paint. I painted them
with p/u bed liner spray and refinished the stocks with a light blonde stain/ poly. mix. On one I left the wood bear and sprayed with poly. I rebuilt a B4-2 like that about six months ago. Also some of the B4-2's the receiver is a little shorter. A B3 spring is to long for it(37 coils). A B2 spring will work (33 coils). They come in a Q2 B2 cleanig kit you can get from Pyramyd for $10. Later
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Spring guides seem to be the weakest link,easy fix.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=52487.msg502772#msg502772 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=52487.msg502772#msg502772)
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Hey, great bunch of info from all you guys! Opening my eyes on the variations of these rifles. How bout the S2 (Not sure if this correct) break barrell pistol...Any good???
Looking outside at all the snow, and ice, I'm thinking that having this pistol may be my only salvation if attacked by a yeti. ;D
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Yeah C J, I've seen those high speed metal and delrin B3 spring guides. I don't have those kind of machine skills or tools. Wish I did. My steel rod and J.B weld project is for the mechanically challenged like me.
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John, check out the Air Gun Gate, fourth page, 3 or 4 from the top. You'll see a thread started by Avatar on the S2-1 pistol. Has some info on the gun. lostworld.com has them, about $25. They sale'em thru amazon.
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It seems the P O L A R V O R T E X has delayed my shipment until Monday so no tuning joy for me this weekend. Oh well I get to see my Saints try for another road playoff win.
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Thanks Tim...
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One of the reasons why, I got good numbers(along with tons of other stuff like extending the bolt probe, opening up the transfer port, and doing a few other thing's I care not to mention, less I feel the wrath of the Mod's) was tossing the springs that came in the "kit's", and used "Quest 1000" mainsprings,the difference is like night and day.
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Andy, what were the differences with the Quest 1000 spring, fps, accuracy, smoother cycle
You're talking about a B3, right?
What is the length and coil count of the spring?
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One of my B3's, shoots a little on the lower end of the scale, but a very nice basement paper puncher.
http://youtu.be/BwsNyopr_i4 (http://youtu.be/BwsNyopr_i4)
Best,
Tim
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Cool video, Tim.
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I wonder just how many different configurations they did of the B3.
I have one exactly like this:
(http://www.xisicousa.com/images/B3-1.gif)
And another just like this:
(http://www.airrifle-china.com/imageRepository/0b19d458-2246-410a-a78e-6d401c5a8bc0.jpg)
Both are listed as B3-1 on the sites the images came from and the rifles I have are dead on the same as the pics above.
With the exception of the finish on the under lever. That is the one that a previous owner did a REALLY bad job of refinishing.
I have started refinishing it today. Haven't decided on the final finish color yet. I figure I have plenty of sanding time to think about it. Besides, the color I go with is going to depend greatly on the grain pattern revealed once it is completely bare.
Also considering doing something a little different with the grooves on the forward end.
I'll post some before and after pics when it's all done.
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A bunch and I think I got at least one of all of'em. And XS made some with a different trigger assembly and front sights, also some with adjustable AK/SKS like front sights. You said something about the forward groove. Does it have the front sight mounted on an almost 9mm dove tail. I've got one of those in .22.
Had to put a new screw thru it but finally got it tight.
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Thanks for all the info. guys. Looks like a couple B3's will be in my future :-)!
BZ
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Tim, The difference between the 2 are like night and day, even though the "Chinese" springs the same length. coil count, you can see just by wiggling it in your hand the tensile strength is a whole lot weaker. The Crosman Quest 1000 spring is very stiff, and the difference in the gun is about 200fps, So, don't let anyone tell you, A spring's just a spring. I dropped "Quest 1000" springs into my Cometa's, and their pushing 36ft/lbs :o ;) 8), It was like dropping a "Rolls-Royce" "Merlin" engine into a Sluggish P-51 Mustang ;D, Cheer's, Andy.
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I dropped "Quest 1000" springs into my Cometa's, and their pushing 36ft/lbs :o ;) 8), It was like dropping a "Rolls-Royce" "Merlin" engine into a Sluggish P-51 Mustang ;D, Cheer's, Andy.
Do you have the dimensions of the Quest 1000 spring such as ID, OD, wire diameter?
BTW - I was always under the impression that most P-51's used the Merlin engine.
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I'm not running around trying to find calipers to get Exact measurements for you, but I did take a pic for you, The top spring is from a "Crosman Quest 1000", and the two beneath are from the "Chinese" kits, I believe they were from the QF2 kits used for almost all their guns from the B2's, B3's, and B4's, http://www.dlairgun.com/Maintenance/Industry-Brand/ (http://www.dlairgun.com/Maintenance/Industry-Brand/) ,as you can see the lengths for the springs in the "Chinese" kits vary a little to more than a little, I've seen differences of up to 2", while I've never seen such variations with any of the Crosman springs that I've purchased over the years, (roughly 15, or so)
Also, The P-51 was indeed powered by a Rolls Royce Merlin engine, The Detroit muscle that was originally its power-plant just didn't have the ball's to turn it into the fighter it was destined to become: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-51_Mustang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-51_Mustang)
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I'm not running around trying to find calipers to get Exact measurements for you, but I did take a pic for you...
Good to know, thanks. I have the "cleaning and maintenance kit" with spring ready in case I feel the need for a new spring, but based on your experience I'll add a Quest 1000 main spring to my next Crosman parts order and try that instead!
I got the B3 back together this morning after refinishing the stock. Not a bad looking chunk of wood under the paint it came with. I had more fun working on this gun and I'm not done.
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I love my B-4's, I especially like them in thick bush, I've given both of mine a "Bed-Liner" finish, and you could bring these things through the thickest stuff around, and they'd come out scratch-free, I've kept the .22 optics free as well, and made some pretty incredible shots just using the "iron-sight's", very reminiscent of the Lee-Enfield .303's I fired in Cadets, In fact, 2 yrs ago I took a Mallard with the .22 @ 45yds, using Gamo Hunters(a perfect match for this gun), It was the first chance my dog ever got to get quarry at that far a distance. In all honesty, If you take the time, and have the patience, you can have a shooter, that'll "out-shoot" the best of the pack, In case you're looking for some help w/ tear-downs, and such, here's a link, this guy seems ok, but disregard his use of "WD-40" as the myrical elixir when it comes to airguns,LOL,: http://air.guns.20megsfree.com/photo4.html (http://air.guns.20megsfree.com/photo4.html)
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this is to single shot cajun. I actually just got a under lever in .177 that looks just like that well sort of i got it from a guy who had it in storage for 2 years i just got it this after noon i oiled it down and whiped it down and cocked it and shot it a few times doesnt seem like the fastest thing in the world , but it will go thur a beer can at 15 yards open sites
the black plastic end cap cracked though and the barrel is all rusted up its going to cost me a $5.00 pizza thats a great deal. I plan on striping it down and redo the stock a darker color and sanding down and re blu the barrel and then re building it I never did anything like that before so im looking for ideas.
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The two from Sharp imports came in today. I think I have a major tuning job or just a couple of parts guns. Yet another variant, long notch in stock for cocking lever no bearing of any kind for the lever. On the first one the lever touched and started to crack the wood at full stroke. These two are pretty on the outside but ugly everywhere else.I normally clean the bore then shoot on cleaning pellet before doing anything to one. The first one would not shoot out the cleaning pellet. Took it apart cleaned lubed lightly deburred here and there put it back together with a thrust washer(new black spring guide) and still no air pressure. The piston seal is poly and it seem tight enough going back together but it must be faulty. The second one develops pressure but has a single stage trigger. Maybe I can build one out of these two. My last B3 rifles have come from three different vendors and all three are total junk. These used be slightly less of a &^^& shoot. I do enjoy working on them so I now two more project guns but I am officially done buying new ones. My next spinger will likely be a higher end gun.
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All my new B3 have been at least good. Surprised you got some that defective. If there's a screw hole in
the end of the piston try a leather seal. It might produce more pressure. Also try a new breach seal. You can get'em both from a Archie.
A replacement for the receiver end cap is the top off an AXE travel size spray deodorant. Takes a little trimming. I'm using them in two of my rebuilds. $1.00 CVS. I don't use that brand but I noticed the top.
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A replacement for the receiver end cap is the top off an AXE travel size spray deodorant. Takes a little trimming. I'm using them in two of my rebuilds. $1.00 CVS. I don't use that brand but I noticed the top.
I love it. Growing up on a Dairy farm I learned to work with "found" objects,you mostly fixed things yourself or they did not get fixed and the cows did not get milked. It is more fun to make something work than it is to through money at a problem. I'm not giving up on my problem B3s as my personality will not allow it.At nearly forty dollars with shipping and Quality really going down hill I won't be buying anymore B3s.If we could only pay shipping on all the B3 rifles owned buy disgruntled buyers across the country .I agree about the leather seals, seems B3 rifles just do better with them. Did not notice if the face of the piston is tapped but it sure can be. Did the highly technical test of laying some tissue across the breech and firing a pellet,both pass the test.
I'll take the second down tonight and see if a simple tune will help it.
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I really like what you did with the wood on that re-finished stock of yours there Jon , Nice Grain, When I took my B4's down to the wood, one was really nice with deep, rich grain, the other had a massive gouge that was filled in with "plastic-wood", and then covered with that Brown Stain that'll cover anything up, So, I opted for a "Bed-Liner" coating, came out sharp, very tactical looking, and tough as nails, I've done the same with practically all of my "Chinese" a/g's, with the exception of my .22 QB-57 w/ an optional .177 barrel, QB-78D, QB-18, and my latest "Chinese" acquisition an XS-60c, which has a beautifully grained stock, just begging to be re-done, I'd love to strip it down, but these old hands just don't have what it takes anymore. I enclosed a pic of the very first XS-B4-2A I ever modded, When I was done, It was shooting a 16gr Jumbo Straton @ 625fps, 14.3gr Crosman Dome @ 650fps, and like almost all B4's, it'll place the pellet exactly where you want it. Cheer's, Andy.
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I opted for a "Bed-Liner" coating, came out sharp, very tactical looking, and tough as nails, I've done the same with practically all of my "Chinese" a/g's ... When I was done, It was shooting a 16gr Jumbo Straton @ 625fps, 14.3gr Crosman Dome @ 650fps, and like almost all B4's, it'll place the pellet exactly where you want it. Cheer's, Andy.
I've seen a few Bed Liner finishes on airguns. It's a good looking option for bad wood or when you just want something indestructible. Your B4 is a good example. I searched online for B4 for a while last night and could not find any dealers in the USA, only Canada. Where can you get a B4 in the States? Flea markets and yard sales seem like the only options.
What is the edge the B4 has over the B3? Externally they look like the same gun in a different stock but people like you get much higher velocities from the B4.
I was pretty happy when a tune up and piston mods got the B3 to clock 668 avg. with 7.0 gr wadcutters, up from 495 fps out of the box. Then I ran the 2100 and 880 over the chronograph. They both edged out the B3 and the 2100 is a little more accurate. I'm not disappointed with the B3. I got it as a project gun. It has responded to my efforts better than any other airgun I've worked on. I'd call it a success and maybe I can squeeze a little more juice out of it. From just a value perspective I would have to give the other cheap airguns the vote.
Someone wrote, "B3's be what B3's be."
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Bedliner is good stuff if a natural wood finish isn't going to work out. On metal I prime with a self-etching primer and spray on one coat of black paint before I use the bedliner. It doesn't like to stick to plastic much, so I "prime" those pieces with a plastic paint like Krylon or Painter's Choice before using the bedliner. You can adjust the "grit" of the bedliner with coats of polyurethane, using flat/satin/semi-gloss/glossy depending upon your tastes.
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Every place that I knew of that was selling "Bam's", the B4's, and the B3 "Folding Stock" models have all dried up, Lot's of "Industry" gun's, but No Bam's?, could be they stopped making them all together, or the markets dried up, and they're only selling to "third-world" countries. http://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Industry-Brand/ (http://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Industry-Brand/) I managed to find this place that still sells B-3's, unfortunately they're sold out, but they do have the B-2-2A'a in .22, I had one of these tuned, and it would send a Crosman Dome @ 600fps, only problem, No safety, http://www.rexdist.com/collections/pellet-guns-accessories/products/b2-1 (http://www.rexdist.com/collections/pellet-guns-accessories/products/b2-1)
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Jon, I've got an old XSB4-2 I got off gunbroker.com and like your's it shoots better than my B3's. Also my Peak B3 AK,Bam B3 AK and Peak TS 45 shoot good. All those I believe are now XS. It's got to be better barrels and also they all got smaller 33 coil springs and seem to shoot a little smoother. When I rebuilt them I put 33 coil B2 springs in them. No, one of the AK's had a 29 coil spring like a B1. Another difference in the XSB4 is the trigger assembly. Wen I re-built it six month ago it took me 3 hours to figure out how to get the trigger back together. The key was one leg of the spring goes under the sear and the other behind the trigger. It's got a 2lbs 3oz pull now. But after that 3 hour I was the most relaxed I'd been in awhile.
The one in Andy's picture is a newer version than mine. (correct me if I'm wrong Andy) I think it has an adjustable front sight (ak/sks style) Same as on my B3 AK's and TS45. The rear is range adjustment but you can make elevation adjustments with it. I bought an ak/sks front sight adj. tool for them. Also the receiver is a little longer and has a bigger spring.
A few weeks ago I bought what was suppose to be three B3's in parts and pieces. One is a B3-3 the other two are an XSB4-2 like my other one and one is a XSB4 like Andy's except it sights are missing.
An AR2078 front sight will fit with a couple of taps and I'll use an I.B. clamp on rear or a Williams peep.
I got enough parts to get'em all shooting along with 2 AXE deodorant tops for receiver end caps.
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Check "SelfDefenseSupply". You have to sign up as a dealer, but I don't recall paying an extra fee to do so.
They usually have an ad in Shotgun News mag.
Terry
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Check this place out; http://www.amazon.com/Pellet-Rifle-5-5mm-Caliber-Safety/dp/B009GLXCWW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top (http://www.amazon.com/Pellet-Rifle-5-5mm-Caliber-Safety/dp/B009GLXCWW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) ,Not sure about the validity, but the ad looks current. Cheer's, Andy.
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The one that shows in that link appears to be one with an articulating cocking arm(notice the groove in the stock) and a plastic trigger guard.
This one from the same seller is like the ones I bought from Sharp imports
http://www.amazon.com/Pellet-Rifle-4-5mm-Caliber-Real/dp/B009GLUT7S/ref=sr_1_6?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1389776081&sr=1-6&keywords=b3+air+rifle (http://www.amazon.com/Pellet-Rifle-4-5mm-Caliber-Real/dp/B009GLUT7S/ref=sr_1_6?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1389776081&sr=1-6&keywords=b3+air+rifle)
If you get one like it be sure to check for clearance between the wood and the cocking lever as you carefully cock it the first time. This arrangement is growing on me as it is simpler.
I got one running last night.The piston seal on one of the new ones had .008" clearance on the air chamber.Air chamber =1.010" and the seal was 1.002".As Jamie Hynemen would say "Theres your problem!"). I installed a air chamber and piston from a donor rifle(basket case from south summit) homemade steel spring guide,thrust washers,worked the trigger and voilą great shooting rifle.No Chrony but at 10 meters in the garage it is printing 1.5" high with the rear sight as far down as it will go and is planting them deep in duct seal with .5" ten shot groups offhand with the open sights,it will get a rear peep.
Now to tackle the other I received on Monday.
I do wish there was another source for replacement urethane piston seals other than Archie.I do not want to have to buy all the stuff just to get a seal.
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The one that shows in that link appears to be one with an articulating cocking arm(notice the groove in the stock) and a plastic trigger guard.
This one from the same seller is like the ones I bought from Sharp imports.
That is where I got my B3, LastWorld on Amazon. It was a birthday gift from my girlfriend. It was so sorry looking in the box that she offered to return it. It was as I expected. There was only a little piece of battered styrofoam in the box to protect the muzzle and front sight. It had chips in the uneven stock finish and a good size gouge in the wood, scratches in the bluing, loose rear sight pin halfway coming out, twisted front sight, barrel bent to the right like a banana, rust and pits in the compression tube, loose screws, sloppy welds and the wobbly rear sight wouldn't adjust low enough to zero in the POI. Inside everything was covered with a brown greasy goop that had a smell like cooking oil when it dieseled.
It shot 495 avg. fps with 7 gr pellets out of the box. After the first lube-n-tune it shot 540 avg. fps with the original synthetic piston seal. I installed a Tesla seal and some other homebrew mods. It now clocks at 668 avg. fps with 7 gr and 619 avg. fps with 8.3 gr pellets. Accuracy is pretty good with the iron sights and I like having an iron sight gun to practice with. Now that the internals are working well I touched up the bluing and refinished the stock. I like having an example of the B3 in my little arsenal.
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CJ, you could bend the barrel just a hair. That over sized compression chamber might be fixed with a plastic sleeve inside, like fabricated from a plastic vinegar bottle etc. The poly. seals seem to be all the same size. The leather seals vary a little. Soak'em in oil they swell a little or ruff up the sides. Archies got a pack of 4 for $12.99. My old XSB4-2 w/ 33 coil spring and leather seal averages 641 fps. One of my I.B. B3's with 37 coils and a poly. seal avg. 584 fps.(both .177)
I bought a Qb57 way back with both barrels, decided to thread lock the .177 barrel. Then bought the parts, sans barrel, to build another gun (it's a hobby!) for the .22 barrel and tried a leather seal and it averaged 481 fps. That .22 barrel on the original gun avg. 513 fps. (FYI .177 avg. 662 FPS.)
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You can make the fit of a leather piston seal adjustable. Look here:
http://www.kermitairgunclub.com/projects/b3guide/B-3%20guide.html#Leather_seal_expansion_washer (http://www.kermitairgunclub.com/projects/b3guide/B-3%20guide.html#Leather_seal_expansion_washer)
I used a slight variation on the theme, and it has worked great for three years now.
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I like it, Simple stuff.
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Thanks I guess I'll order some leather seals and try them.
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You can make the fit of a leather piston seal adjustable. Look here:
http://www.kermitairgunclub.com/projects/b3guide/B-3%20guide.html#Leather_seal_expansion_washer (http://www.kermitairgunclub.com/projects/b3guide/B-3%20guide.html#Leather_seal_expansion_washer)
I used a slight variation on the theme, and it has worked great for three years now.
This is exactly the setup in the S2-1 .22 Chinese pistol. Good stuff
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Bill, when you had those S2-1 tore down were you able adjust the seal and get anymore fps.
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Tim, to be honest, I can't answer that. I just got the chrony and I have yet to run anything across it yet. I didn't know the stats on the gun before I tore it down so I have nothing to compare to when I do test it, as with all my guns. I will be at that disadvantage. I can't tell by shooting it because these guns shoot very slow and the gain or loss can't be determined by feel. I can tell you I need to go back into that gun because the trigger pull is way too heavy. But that brings up another problem, my spring compressor failed and I have to build another one. I have everything to do it with except the time. should have a 3 day weekend but, the to-do list is a mile long.
Sorry
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Finished with the two from Sharp imports and they are acting right even if I had to rob a piston and combustion chamber from a parts gun for one of them. No matter how many I have it burns me up to have any form of gun air or firearm that will not work but sometimes it really is trowing good money at bad and one has to be designated a "parts" gun.
Made a peep with an Industry brand 11mm rear sight and put it on the ugly one and installed a steel spring guide in it.
Left the open sight on the pretty one and only added thrust washer and a penny in the piston and used the black plastic spring guide as I wanted to keep this one light. Nowadays with my contacts I can shoot open sights fairly well again. Both got copious amounts of Molykote on the spring and piston, shot cycle is pretty sweet.
link for pictures
http://s84.photobucket.com/user/cajuncj/library/#/user/cajuncj/library/air/B3%20air%20rifles%20two%20more%20tuned%20and%20ready?sort=3&page=1&_suid=1390155564312025888854178093456 (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/cajuncj/library/#/user/cajuncj/library/air/B3%20air%20rifles%20two%20more%20tuned%20and%20ready?sort=3&page=1&_suid=1390155564312025888854178093456)
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Says I have to login to view photos.
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Try it now, I goofed the first time.
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The one in the Amazon pic looks just like the one I am refinishing except the stock on mine has no cheek pad. I suspect someone smoothed it off though because it was wavy top to bottom just in that area. Took a while to get it smoothed out.
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Finished with the two from Sharp imports and they are acting right even if I had to rob a piston and combustion chamber from a parts gun for one of them. No matter how many I have it burns me up to have any form of gun air or firearm that will not work but sometimes it really is trowing good money at bad and one has to be designated a "parts" gun.
Made a peep with an Industry brand 11mm rear sight and put it on the ugly one and installed a steel spring guide in it.
Left the open sight on the pretty one and only added thrust washer and a penny in the piston and used the black plastic spring guide as I wanted to keep this one light. Nowadays with my contacts I can shoot open sights fairly well again. Both got copious amounts of Molykote on the spring and piston, shot cycle is pretty sweet.
link for pictures
http://s84.photobucket.com/user/cajuncj/library/#/user/cajuncj/library/air/B3%20air%20rifles%20two%20more%20tuned%20and%20ready?sort=3&page=1&_suid=1390155564312025888854178093456 (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/cajuncj/library/#/user/cajuncj/library/air/B3%20air%20rifles%20two%20more%20tuned%20and%20ready?sort=3&page=1&_suid=1390155564312025888854178093456)
Least maybe they look better now CJ. I made a vid this morning of my original B3-1 in .22 cal. I had stripped down the stock only to find tons of filler, so I painted it flat black with several coats of clear (bout 7 years ago). I added a little bright green paint to the front sight, although I have since added a very cheap 4x15 scope.
http://youtu.be/0Xyma_fMLZI (http://youtu.be/0Xyma_fMLZI)
The barrel never was really blue when I bought it about 10 years ago, now it is mostly brown, but with that said it is still shooting decent (5 shot group in vid less than a 25 cent piece @ 13.5 yards), and still chronys @ 416.9fps with all original stock internals.
No complaints, I have pushed a lot of lead through it over the years and had a good time doing it! ;)
I have a B2-1 though that is the biggest pile one has ever seen :(
Tim
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CJ, I like the homemade peep sight. Where did you get the dovetail rear sight? What did you use for the disk? I'd have to remove the breech mounted rear sight to use a dovetail mounted sight.
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The sight is a Industry brand 11mm dovetail sight. These sights come with the AR2078 and the Techforce branded Co2 Target rifles, no telling how many of them are sitting in a box in a garage as these rifles also come with a very nice target peep sight. I bought two of the target rifles last year and turned both of the extra rear sights into peep sights. The black plastic eye piece is just Polyethylene cut out with a gasket punch then a hole drilled in the center and super glued over the notch in the sight.Had to grind off a lot of the plastic body of the rear sight so it would go low enough and still have windage adjustament.
I removed the open sights on both of the B-3 rifles I have installed them on.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59481.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59481.0)
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Hi Guys
I'm new here.this is my first post.
I have a B3-1 in .177. It's old enough to have the rear sight spot welded halfway up the tube. The piston seal is not leather.It's some sort of soft plastic that snaps over the stud on the piston face. It has been a good gun from the start. The trigger was very heavy and made accurate shooting difficult. I added a screw that limited the depth of the trigger sear surface.
The trigger is easier to use now. Please note,I do not trust the anti bear trap in this gun. I always hold onto the cocking lever while loading. I only recently took it apart to attempt a tune. Nothing especially bad inside except for gunk and rust .
I did add a plastic end cap (hat)to the spring . It's about 1/8" thick and has a stud that fits into the spring . Molly greased (cheap stuff from the car parts store) everything and reassembled . It's performing to the faster end of of most of them do.
Here are some speeds taken inches from my crono
Daisy lead free 4.9gr Tin 828 average fps terrible accuracy with tumbling even at 15ft
Misterklugen WC 625fps very good accuracy
RWS Hobby 691fps good accuracy
Crossman pointed 606 fps accuracy sometimes good
Old Daisy Quick Silver WC 667fps good basement practice accuracy
New Daisy HPs 684fps good accuracy
The rifle shot them all about the same before the take down .Just 30 fps slower.
I'm looking to buy another one or two. I have been looking like you guys.
I have found two places you may be interested in.
Dragonswardsndaggers.com has what looks like the ak47 side lever air guns . Folding stock too. listed as SKUB4-1
1st Rate Knives.com has some B3 air guns too
n.h.schmidt
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So, does DP Wholesale have B3-1 or B3-2 ??? Also, can some post pics of their B3's that came from DP and sharp?
Thanks Eric
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Those are real good numbers for any B3. I'm like you, I've never had an alloy pellet shoot well. You mentioned Daisy hollow points, some of my old chineses gun love'em.
I've seen 1st Rate Knives before. Never bought from them. But dragonswordsndaggers.com was a new one for me. I've been looking for a Qb6 for a year used or otherwise. I even offered to buy one that was broke I thought I might salvage. I just ordered one from dragons. I'll wait and see if it comes.
Thanks man,
We need details on what you did to that B3 sear for a better trigger.
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Eric, I think you'd be happier with B3's from lostworld.com thru amazon. They have B3-1 $40+$15 shipping and you only have to buy one or better a newer B3 version with a trigger safety, molded trigger guard and monte carlo type stock with a rubber recoil pad for $5 more. Go back to page 4 of this thread, 5th post down has a link to amazon to the gun I'm talking about.
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+1 for LostWorld B3.
It'll still be far from perfect but you'll have a good chance of getting a tunable gun instead of a parts gun.
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lefteyeshot
I will get a pic soon of my trigger modification. I need to figure out how to get it on here. Taken too far and the trigger would be unsafe and possibly the safety(if present) made useless. I think few of us trust that anyway. Has anybody noticed how sharp the rearward recoil is on these guns? The forward jolt I'm well used to.
n.h.schmidt
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Great on the trigger pic's, can't wait. I have to get my I.T. bud over here to show me how to post pic's.
I find with the little home tune I'm capable of B3 recoil is little compared to more modern guns. (Airhawk,
Silentcat, TF89 etc.) I think the weight of the cocking lever on the front end helps some.
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After a lot of agony about trying to decide on which place to order from.I finally ordered a .177 and 22 cal B3's from Sharp import. The picture is rather bad. The stock has a but plate and is raised Like the B3-2. No rear sight shown on the picture but, the description indicates a rear sight. Price is $31.50 ea. Minimum order of $50. I also ordered two cheap scopes. We shall see what happens.At least somebody answers the phone. That's better than some of these places.
My old B3-1 was not cut for a scope .I'm soon going to install a tip off scope rail intended for a Ruger 10/22. I currently have a williams peep sight installed on the rifle.
n.h.schmidt
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Does anyone have a link to a tutorial on barrel straightening ? The last one I put a peep sight on I had to greatly modify the sight housing in order to bring shots left, shot a bunch to the right. I could just wing it bending on the barrel but if someone has experience with that it could save a major screw up.
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Does anyone have a link to a tutorial on barrel straightening ? The last one I put a peep sight on I had to greatly modify the sight housing in order to bring shots left, shot a bunch to the right. I could just wing it bending on the barrel but if someone has experience with that it could save a major screw up.
It ain't rocket science. I built jigs to bend barrels. They worked but are too much trouble IMHO. Now I pad the breech, put it in my bench vise and pull or push on the barrel. It will take a tweak or two to get it pointing where where I want it and this method is quick and EFFECTIVE. My B3 barrel was bent like a banana when I got it. It's pointing straight downrange now. The iron sights are very close to centered.
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n.h.schmidt- IF there's no scope groves on your B3 that's an old gun. I've got an old XSB4-2 without groves. Had a gunsmith bud put a weaver rail on it.
Check out Home projects (tricks & tips) gate on this forum. There's a thread on barrel bending 101.
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I bought what I thought was a B3-2 from sharp import. At least that's what the pic showed. I received a B3-1. I was gonna send it back, but figured what the *(&^, not worth the effort to do that. I'm gonna just keep it, and use it as a "learning tool" on disassembly, assembly, and tuning. Not a total waste afterall.
So, watch out....that pic on the website aint right...
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I knew that there was a strong chance of that happening. I figured at $31.50 it still would be a good price. I hope they get here soon. Some of these import adds are laughable.
n.h.schmidt
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Well ,I did get them yesterday. A .177 and 22 cal. They are indeed not the same as the pic online. They are not the same as even the pic on the box. The pictures show B3-2s with the raised comb and butt plate . Nope for both ,just the plain old stock of the B3-1. On the plus side ,they both work. The 22 is very creaky and is still spraying oil and some smoke. The .177 is smoother and is firing good. The triggers are very light ,much lighter than my early model. The metal finish is actually good. Speeds seem to be in the 470-480 fps range for the 22. I only have shot some old daisy WC so far. The .177 seems to average 610 to 640 with several pellets. Slower at present than my old but broke in and tuned B3-1. If I can find the time the 22cal will looked at this weekend.
n.n.schmidt
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I got brave and tried my hand at barrel bending.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=60877.msg583639#msg583639 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=60877.msg583639#msg583639)
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I got brave and tried my hand at barrel bending.
That's the way to "Get'r done"!
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My new peep sighted B3 is now shooting point of aim almost on mechanical center with the sights.
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So, does DP Wholesale have B3-1 or B3-2 ??? Also, can some post pics of their B3's that came from DP and sharp?
Thanks Eric
Here is a .22 B3-1 from DP, better wood and blueing than my older B3's, but as commented in this thread, be prepared for issues.
(http://s12.postimg.org/fks5rhl25/B3_1_1_WS.jpg)
(http://s18.postimg.org/kero5i3i1/B3_1_2_ws.jpg)
Best,
Tim
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No pictures needed for the one's from Sharp. They look exactly like yours. I have been shooting mine and they are doing well. The oil and grease is almost shot out.
n.h.schmidt
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I have a B3-1 which looks like an SKS.
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has anyone ever had their barrel not bend but get tilted upwards in the breach block, cause it happened to me and i'm wondering if this common or not.im not trying to steal the post but someone mentioned bent barrel so I thought id ask. ;D ;D ;D
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also i'm wondering if the I think its the b3-1 still bear traps. my brother was sortta given one by a family member ,its his but they cant find it. anyway he's the kind of person that would learn the hard way if you know what I mean ;) ;)
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has anyone ever had their barrel not bend but get tilted upwards in the breach block, cause it happened to me and i'm wondering if this common or not.im not trying to steal the post but someone mentioned bent barrel so I thought id ask. ;D ;D ;D
My B3 came with the barrel bent like a banana. They're easy to bend straight.