GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Bwalton on January 04, 2014, 12:01:46 PM
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From what I have read this is an awesome gun, shoots 25.4gr JSB@ 990fps, and is one of the most accurate gun @ 50yards and out. So why do ppl pay $1000-$2500 for the Fx, Evanix, daystate and guns like that? If you are hunting you want power and accuracy right? Can someone chime in who has a BT65 and one of the others? Or who had a BT65 and did not like or who loves it?
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I hear they are not very field friendly---to heavy, but I still want one.
Joe
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I hear they are not very field friendly---to heavy, but I still want one.
Joe
lol it cant be more heavier then my octane lol,
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The rare critter, the "Hellifiknow".
Think a lot of it is snob appeal. Does signing your name with a +1000 Mt. Blanc pen make it worth more than signing your name with the free "pen on a chain" pen?
If you are results oriented, then certainly can get the airgun job done with less expensive guns. If you are process oriented, then what you use kind of defines who you are (which is shallow, but seems to be a general truth in life).
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the hatsan is one on my list to collect but for me I went with the s510 and BSA mk2 over a hatsan for sound, reputation, quality. more expensive guns have a lot more technology and R&D built into them. it's also for me not always for power (fps). also the hatsan isn't attractive like the two mentioned. I do have the mrod started with a inexpensive model and compared to the other two you see and feel the difference in performance and quality on higher end models.
no different than cars, some people will buy a ford, some a bmw, both get you from point A to B.
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the hatsan is one on my list to collect but for me I went with the s510 and BSA mk2 over a hatsan for sound, reputation, quality. more expensive guns have a lot more technology and R&D built into them. it's also for me not always for power (fps). also the hatsan isn't attractive like the two mentioned. I do have the mrod started with a inexpensive model and compared to the other two you see and feel the difference in performance and quality on higher end models.
But at the end of the day1/2inch@ 50yards is a 1/2@50yards the question seems to be, Do I want to look pretty dong it?
"(expensive guns have a lot more technology and R&D built into them.)" Like what? Not being problematic, just want to know?
I see the smooth twist barrel that FX has, which they also sell for $220. I add that to the BT65 still under $800 and now more accurate? Maybe....
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accuracy both may be equal, but I've seen on forums more people with issues with hatsans than s510's or the other higher end unless they were modding them. since I don't have a hatsan, I used my mrod as a example. I've tinkered with the all my pcp's listed and you can see the difference in the quality and build and performance. the evidence is there as you don't see hatsans and less expensive models winning many competitions.
my preference is buying what I think is a quality product. price often dictates that level. ford fusion 18K-20K bmw 5 series, 45k-90k
fx came out with the smooth twist barrel, they also make quality airguns. yes you can put the barrel on a hatsan but it's still a hatsan. it also doesn't mean it's going to shoot like a fx either. at that point it's become something custom and modded. I'm not into modding although I will make changes within reason to better performance but out the box I've had to do nothing to the ones I have except the rainstorm which is loud.
I cannot go into technical details as that's not my forte nor have I've been into pcp's long enough to tinker with.
the way I look at it, I want a gun that meets specific requirements and that I can take from box to field and enjoy shooting. I'd rather pay for the refinement than put my time and additional money into it.
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Ok I see, I like to do mods to all that I buy. If I know that the BT65 can be a better gun with a little spent time into it that works for me. But I can not find a bad review on the gun so I was just reaching out.
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Ok I see, I like to do mods to all that I buy. If I know that the BT65 can be a better gun with a little spent time into it that works for me. But I can not find a bad review on the gun so I was just reaching out.
I'm not saying it's a bad gun, quite the opposite since I plan on adding one to my collection. it just didn't meet the criteria I wanted at the time which was quiet, plus I prefer wooden stocks (not theirs).it also comes down to budget, I wanted a daystate, what made sense was getting the s510 and bsa MK2 two quality guns for the price of one extremely fine gun. but like anything, you can mod it to be better than a more expensive model. the same applies to some of these suped up inexpensive cars that will outperform a ferrari, but at the end of the day it's not a ferrari.
it is also about looks too, everyone wants a gun that looks good to them. especially when it comes to recreation. for survival I don't care what it looks like.*LOL* it could be pink for all I care.*L*
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Heavy, quality control, shrouds, regulators etc. and I think if you put a BT65 beside a Daystate the difference would be obvious.
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everyone wants a gun that looks good to them. especially when it comes to recreation. for survival I don't care what it looks like.*LOL* it could be pink for all I care.*L*
Let's all be honest with ourselves...it is *ALL* recreation. Anyone who is spending the money on airguns that we do (even "lower-end" PCPs like the Hatsan) is not spending that money out of their essential food-and-shelter budget. And all the I'm stockpiling my guns, including airguns :D for a zombie-end-of-the-world-red-dawn-terrorists-take-over-government-black-helicopter survival scenario is - let's face it - a grown man's version of playing cowboys and indians when we were kids: maybe fun, but it's a fantasy.
So - basically, this is all about what you like to play with. And that's just a matter of taste and budget.
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everyone wants a gun that looks good to them. especially when it comes to recreation. for survival I don't care what it looks like.*LOL* it could be pink for all I care.*L*
Let's all be honest with ourselves...it is *ALL* recreation. Anyone who is spending the money on airguns that we do (even "lower-end" PCPs like the Hatsan) is not spending that money out of their essential food-and-shelter budget. And all the I'm stockpiling my guns, including airguns :D for a zombie-end-of-the-world-red-dawn-terrorists-take-over-government-black-helicopter survival scenario is - let's face it - a grown man's version of playing cowboys and indians when we were kids: maybe fun, but it's a fantasy.
So - basically, this is all about what you like to play with. And that's just a matter of taste and budget.
Well put and very true. The more expensive guns are more refined, meaning smoother action, less "wobble" between moving parts like the trigger, different features like easily repeatable power adjustment, stuff like that. If you want a pretty accurate boomer, Hatsan is a great value!
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A friend of mine should have his hatsan 65 coming in anyday now, he will come to my house to set it up and shoot it in.
I'll give a review on the gun
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A friend of mine should have his hatsan 65 coming in anyday now, he will come to my house to set it up and shoot it in.
I'll give a review on the gun
Thanks! I will be looking forward to that! Looking at shrouds for it, there is a lot out there that makes that gun super quite!
There is a video of one at the bottom of the page
http://petersoncorner.com/clague/gallery.htm (http://petersoncorner.com/clague/gallery.htm)
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Think that if a Daystate and a Hatsan were sitting side by side, even a blind many could tell them apart.
But if you just handed out the results (velocity/energy/accuracy) the difference would be minor.
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I own a BT65SB in .25 and a couple of FX guns, a couple of Daystates, a couple of Benjamins, a Air Arms S510C and a Hammerli. The quality/ fit and finish of the FX, Daystate and Air Arms is about equal to each other. Then come the Benjamins and then the BT65SB and Hammerli. They will all get the job done but the BT65SB and Hammerli don't have shrouds on them so they are a bit loud and not backyard friendly. To be honest my BT65SB only has about 50 pellets though it because it is so loud. It is a big gun but solid and looks like it could take a beating far better than the ones made in England and Finland. Unfortunately I can't say how accurate it is because I've never been able to fire it in my back yard, for fear my neighbors would call the police. I've only shot it in my garage through the chronograph which shows that it is the most powerful airgun that I own shooting over 1000 fps.
If anyone lives in the Phoenix Area and wants a deal on a like new BT65SB, let me know. But be forewarned it is a very loud gun.
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I have both a BT65 in .25 cal and a AAS510C in .22cal, and the differences between them is quite significant. But they both have the same purpose...to drop pests and they both do that well. The Air Arms is much more refined, and precisely machined. The Hatsan is a bit rough around the edges, this can easily be observed by closely examining the gun. My BT65 was pretty dirty when I got it, lots of metal shavings left in the gun from the machining process, the bolt action is extremely stiff, the polymer stock flexes/isnt as rigid as I thought it would be and the threads were pretty rough on the muzzle. Also it isnt quite as accurate as my Air Arms, but I wasnt expecting the same quality that I got with the Air Arms especially not for less than half the price.
I bought it because I wanted one of the harder hitting repeater airguns that was also accurate enough for my needs. I looked at getting .25 M-Rod but the synthetic version still hadnt been released yet and I couldnt justify getting a .25 cal that only hit ~50% harder than my .22. I wanted something that would hit SIGNIFICANTLY harder than my .22, the BT65 fit that bill and I didnt want to spend more than $700 on the gun.
My only real complaint with the AAS510C is that it didnt come with sling studs. Dont get me wrong I definitely think that Hatsan has it's place but I agree with the analogy of the Ford and the BMW (Im sure that the Ferrari analogy would work too but I've never ridden, let alone driven, a Ferrari; so I can only imagine that the analogy works). If I had more money at the time then I probably would have gone with something nicer but I was in a rush to get a second gun so my brother-in-law could go hunting with me and I had to get good glass to go with the gun. Im still happy with my purchase, but I do plan on getting a regulator for it so that the gun has a power curve instead of a power slope.
oh and one last thing, like others have said the gun is LOUD but I knew that before I bought it. The TKO moderator tames the guns bark, maybe not enough to be backyard friendly but it works for my hunting properties.
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I own the .22 AT44 P/A, and I also have an AT44tact1022 on its way, should be here on monday, Anyway's, I thought you may like to read the review I posted for the AT44 P/a on Pyrmids site:
3 of 3 people found the following review helpful:
Overall rating:5
Value for money:4
Accuracy:5
By Andrew from Canada on 2013-04-12 02:53:11
Things I liked:I've had the .22 model of this a/g for a while, and its great, I've alway's been into springers,and this is my first venture into pcp, What a difference, Coming from a host of top of the line springer's, (Cometa Fusion Premier.22, as one example)This blows it away. I'm getting close to 1000fps with H&N FTT 5.54mm(16-gr,.),and with 9gr Prometheus Hunters,I get close to 1140fps, and thats with deadly accuracy, Accurate enough to knock off a 25pd Racoon 75ft up a Pine Tree, and it was dead before it hit the ground with a head shot!. If you hunt with your a/g's, then this is your gun, after you get used to the shooting cycle, You'll be squeezing them off like Chuck Conners, But seriously, This gun is awesome!, Very easy to get your line of sight, and you keep it, even going through the pumping cycle, It's a polymer stock, but it's rock hard, not like the plastic Crosman Uses (Crosman M4177, as an example). Choosing the right ammo for this shooter may be a challenge, I've found that alot of my favourite pellets don't cycle well, It's a shame, I really like hunting with Skenco Metal-Tipped Ultra Mag's, but they're just too long, As with most of the point's in my arsenal, I However, I did find it shot excellent with H&N SilverPonts(17.10gr,.) In domes, the only pellet that was a little too long was H&N Baracuda's, Hunters, H&N Field Targets, Silouette's, FTT, FTT Power, Gamo Pro Hunters/Hunters, AirArms FX SmoothTwist pellets all performed well and left everything in the black @ 20M
Things I would have changed:The weight!,,It's a heavy gun, and w/ that kind of heft, It should come with factory swivels, a shot-gun sling will be hard to place on this gun due to it's configuration.Any swivel attachment should be done professionally. Also, Magazine placement should be more internal, Too much of it is sticking out, and makes scope placement problematic.
What others should know:Finding Optic's for this Beast may become a problem, If you plan on using a standard scope, You're going to need high mounts, and an Objective of Less of than 40mm, a Red-Dot may do the trick, but the rail's are a tad too thick for any Q/D type of mount. I put a JGBG M8 3.5X40 I/R, Integrated Laser on mine, and it fit's just right, and performs Extremely well with this gun, and doesn't add alot of weight.Get yourself extra magazines, I found that 6, will get you through all of your gun's power shots per fill-up, I also sprung for an extra air cylinder, tossed in my rucksuck, provides me with me more than enough air for a day in the field. Once you get used to this gun, It should become the pinnacle of your collection, It's very well built,a fantastic trigger, This gun should provide you with years of good shooting/Hunting. Chher's, and Happy Huntin', Andy.
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I read that alot!Must use high mounts......I don`t own a set of high mounts & use 30mm scopes & have 3 Hatsans.AT-44, mine is labeled as Air Venturi Halestorm in .22 its avg. fps=845 for 30 shots with 18gr. JSB`s.It does not have the Quattro Trigger.Lots of polishing & softer springs installed it is a awesome single stage hunting trigger.BT-65 in .22 shoots the JSB Monsters @ avg.950 fps for 20 shoots.Also bought the extra air cylinder but it never shot as fast as the one that came with the rifle.Its avg is 930fps.Both of these rifles have seen extensive modifications.The third Hatsan is the Galatian .25.Its more like holding a shotgun & shooting from a bench you feel feel it in your wrist before the first mag is empty.It being like a shotgun I think someone could change out the butt stock & put a pistol grip type butt stock on it.Like a riot shotgun.Whatever there called.You want to talk about magizine sticking out Andrew.I suggest you not buy the Galatian.It doesn`t stick out at the top but the side.This one would be easy to add a shroud to.(full length shroud) It already has a channel cut for one & the barrel band is only a piece of plastic with a o-ring in it.If you look at the shrouded versions of the Galatian you can see its just missing this piece.I like all three,All three are loud out of the box,all three do need some tuning to get the most out of them & last but not least they are heavy.The biggest thing is all three are accurite.At there price point & power level I think they are great.If you want a lighter more refined rifle with a higher shoot count & lower power level then look at the Fx line of rifles& go buy you a set of high rings.
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I own the .22 AT44 P/A, and I also have an AT44tact1022 on its way, should be here on monday, Anyway's, I thought you may like to read the review I posted for the AT44 P/a on Pyrmids site:
3 of 3 people found the following review helpful:
Overall rating:5
Value for money:4
Accuracy:5
By Andrew from Canada on 2013-04-12 02:53:11
Things I liked:I've had the .22 model of this a/g for a while, and its great, I've alway's been into springers,and this is my first venture into pcp, What a difference, Coming from a host of top of the line springer's, (Cometa Fusion Premier.22, as one example)This blows it away. I'm getting close to 1000fps with H&N FTT 5.54mm(16-gr,.),and with 9gr Prometheus Hunters,I get close to 1140fps, and thats with deadly accuracy, Accurate enough to knock off a 25pd Racoon 75ft up a Pine Tree, and it was dead before it hit the ground with a head shot!. If you hunt with your a/g's, then this is your gun, after you get used to the shooting cycle, You'll be squeezing them off like Chuck Conners, But seriously, This gun is awesome!, Very easy to get your line of sight, and you keep it, even going through the pumping cycle, It's a polymer stock, but it's rock hard, not like the plastic Crosman Uses (Crosman M4177, as an example). Choosing the right ammo for this shooter may be a challenge, I've found that alot of my favourite pellets don't cycle well, It's a shame, I really like hunting with Skenco Metal-Tipped Ultra Mag's, but they're just too long, As with most of the point's in my arsenal, I However, I did find it shot excellent with H&N SilverPonts(17.10gr,.) In domes, the only pellet that was a little too long was H&N Baracuda's, Hunters, H&N Field Targets, Silouette's, FTT, FTT Power, Gamo Pro Hunters/Hunters, AirArms FX SmoothTwist pellets all performed well and left everything in the black @ 20M
Things I would have changed:The weight!,,It's a heavy gun, and w/ that kind of heft, It should come with factory swivels, a shot-gun sling will be hard to place on this gun due to it's configuration.Any swivel attachment should be done professionally. Also, Magazine placement should be more internal, Too much of it is sticking out, and makes scope placement problematic.
What others should know:Finding Optic's for this Beast may become a problem, If you plan on using a standard scope, You're going to need high mounts, and an Objective of Less of than 40mm, a Red-Dot may do the trick, but the rail's are a tad too thick for any Q/D type of mount. I put a JGBG M8 3.5X40 I/R, Integrated Laser on mine, and it fit's just right, and performs Extremely well with this gun, and doesn't add alot of weight.Get yourself extra magazines, I found that 6, will get you through all of your gun's power shots per fill-up, I also sprung for an extra air cylinder, tossed in my rucksuck, provides me with me more than enough air for a day in the field. Once you get used to this gun, It should become the pinnacle of your collection, It's very well built,a fantastic trigger, This gun should provide you with years of good shooting/Hunting. Chher's, and Happy Huntin', Andy.
I very much appreciate your input as well as all the others! You are right at that price its almost certain that there will need to be some clean up. There is a shroud and LDC that will make it backyard friendly. No doubt that I will have to put some $ and some time into it just Like I did my Umarex Octane, but at the end of the day I think that it will be worth it.....Maybe. Seems like a fun project because thats exactly what it will be. I plan on putting on a Shroud and LDC, and FX Barrel.
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Only have two Hatsan made guns, neither one a 65.
Pneuma isn’t really a problem as the single shot breech is low. Does need a full length scope (and the length is best in the body of the scope rather than a long tapered objective bell).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/pneuma/fafceab6-dfac-483e-9969-c089fb57c479.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/pneuma/fafceab6-dfac-483e-9969-c089fb57c479.jpg.html)
Other is a Raider. Looks different, but you’ll notice the breech is pretty much the same as on the 65.
With a “standard” length 32mm objective scope, end up mounting high in order to clear the front end of the breech:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/5mm/b66d8441-f506-467b-a90e-462a46659338.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/5mm/b66d8441-f506-467b-a90e-462a46659338.jpg.html)
With a scope with a little longer body, can actually go to lower rings and still have enough room to clear an even larger (50mm) objective.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/5mm/c3c6d9e2-569f-4747-84a6-184afdb81046.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/5mm/c3c6d9e2-569f-4747-84a6-184afdb81046.jpg.html)
Considering that the breech on the 65 is about the same as on that Raider, think you’ll find much the same thing. Look for a full sized scope with a pretty long body section and you can use shorter rings.
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The wood on that Raider of yours is Beautiful, Really makes the gun, I had the option of getting the AT44 in a wooden stock, but the Pump Action caught my eye, and being a Remington 870 owner, I'm used to the action, Well the slide(action) is no where near as smooth as the Remington, but then again, I really wasn't expecting it to be, It is fairly smooth, and just as long as you don't try some "Rambo" type of "Rapid-Fire", It works flawlessly. I'm not sure what to expect with the tact1022 I'm getting since it's a "side-lever", but I don't foresee any problems, I've yet to see a bad review regarding its action. I do know that the BT65 is offered in a wood stock, http://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=22_30&products_id=103 (http://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=22_30&products_id=103) ,at over $600.00, I chose the AT44tact1022, it's almost $200.00 cheaper, and I like the fact that its stock is adjustable, meaning my son can use the gun as well, But I really like the BT65, It's a Bloody PowerHouse!, and I've read nothing but good things about it,,,I think I'm going to have to wait for next Christmas for any New Shooter's. Santa's been good to me this year, My wife got me an XS-60c,,,and I got myself the AT44tact1022, But I have a feeling I'll be paying for it w/ alot of extra household chores over the next little? while,LOL,. Cheer's, Andy.
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Raider is a 5mm, and not putting out the power of your .25, but the LDC by TKO works fine. Did notice he has one specific to th .25 Hatsan, and for the $ mine have been good units.
If you shoot in one place, may have another solution for you.
Can take keep really good relations with your neighbors by building a universal sound deadener. My universal sound-deadening tunnel is still in use. Just foam rubber and old shag carpet around a chicken wire frame. Is pulled up and down from the rafters. Acceptable for a bare-barreled gun, it’s pretty close to the “mythical mouse fart” when used with a shrouded or LDC equipped rifle.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/targets/IMG_4212.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/targets/IMG_4212.jpg.html)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/targets/IMG_4210.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/targets/IMG_4210.jpg.html)
Gives you the option of a decently quiet bare-barrled PCP (so long as you tune up/practice from one spot) without adding anything to the barrel during hunting (where you don't care how loud it is).
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Shhhhhhh,,,,I use a 6" piece of "pipe Insulation" when I'm shooting indoors(garage), since I think technically it would be considered a "Sound-Moderater", I wouldn't be caught dead with it outside of my garage, Another good thing about it though, is that it's "slideable" and when my R/A(Arthritus) is really bugging me, It really helps me cock the gun, w/out it, I need to use my forearm. It's a shame our laws considering this are so archaeic, I wish they were more like the U.K., even w/ their 12ft/lb rule, they're generally a more "Airgun" friendly society, You can generally say that about most European countries, since reguler gun ownership is extremely difficult to obtain. I just hope None of us go the way of Austrailia, where you need to show proof as to why you want/need to own an "airgun".