GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: drewciferpike on December 31, 2013, 09:56:18 PM
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OK, all... after some soul-searching (read: beer) while planning for my birthday, I'd like to know if I'm missing something.
It seems like the lightest out-of-the-box multishot PCP rifle I can find is the BSA Ultra SE, with the AA S200 and AAS510 xtra FAC Carbine following the upward curve in weight. After that it's the SynRod and Rainstorm.
This is just what I've found for under $1000, out-of-the-box. Also, my dream-rifle (Indy/Independence) is heavier than the others I've listed, so I'm rethinking my "dreams".
I'm looking for a very accurate multishot .22 hunting rifle, but in a lightweight package. I'd like >20fpe. I'd also like to keep things short, without stepping into bullpups or pistols. A factory shroud would be nice, or the ability to be shrouded is a must (I'm guessing the BSAs lend themselves to shrouding, at least from photographs). The only reason I haven't considered an HPA-converted H850 (I guess they're under 6 pounds, stock) is the need to use an LDC, as I don't want to add length to the rifle. I think I could partially-shroud a S200/CZ200 so I don't have too much of an LDC sticking out, but that's still iffy.
It seems like the S200/CZ200 and S510 are my best bets, but I wanted to check with everyone before I dove in...
(I know I can get a Disco and toss on a new breech and shroud, but I'd like to stay away from the barrel lottery and need to have it completely monkied, out of the box...)
Any other multishot, lightweight hunter suggestions are requested.
Thanks!
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I had this same thought. I needed a lightweight hunter and was also considering the Discovery. I decided on the PRod and a carbine stock. Tunable, affordable, can be upgraded if needed. Although I don't plan on changing it for a while. Only thing I didn't like is the factory "stock" so getting a walnut one stock with proper height cheek piece.
Steve Corcoran's (http://www.network54.com/Forum/581291/thread/1314165491/Wood+Stock+For+Benjamin+Marauder+Air+Pistol) and this one (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=14823.0) were the stocks that interested me most.
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Brocock Contour. 4.0 pounds. AoA carries them, but brocock upgraded them recently and I don't know if they have the new stock with the 30mm tube and new valves, it is supposed to almost double the shot count from 40 to 70 in .22. I think you get about 18 FPE. They have an XL model that is a little heavier and longer that gets near 25fpe. It is about $700 at AoA.
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Disco with repeater breech ?
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I have a single shot Contour and love it. It came with a RIM multishot magazine but I removed it, I preferred to shoot single shot. Very compact and accurate. Had to add a shroud for noise but it is a great little hunter.
I sold my TalonSS and have been considering selling the P-Rod since the Brocock has taken over the .22 cabine role in my airsenal.
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P-rod maybe?
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I have the single shot s500 SL, and I can't recommend it highly enough. It is very light and I don't think the multi shot 510 is much heavier. I know the fx guns are a bit lighter, but you'll have to find a used one to get under $1000.
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I looked at Prods a while back, but I know I'd get too impatient to tune one to the performance I'd get from a stock rifle.
I think the 510 is looking more and more like "the one"...
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I looked at Prods a while back, but I know I'd get too impatient to tune one to the performance I'd get from a stock rifle.
I think the 510 is looking more and more like "the one"...
I have the s510 and I like it a lot, especially the adjustable power level. it has shot accurate since I've had it and is very quiet.
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>This post< (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1294258894/The+Benjamin+Marauder+Pistol+At+Various+Fills+%26amp%3B+Settings) is also partially to blame for me choosing the P-Rod. Someone took the time to make varied adjustments and post results. Thumbhole stock is currently being made and P-Rod is supposed to be on its way. When I have both in hands I will report back if you haven't made a decision by then.
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I would go w/ a used BSA Ultra, Short, light and accurate. Shoots 17fpe for 20 shots. I bought mine a few years ago and couldn't be happier. I picked it up way under your budget.
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The Rainstorm at 39" and 7.2 pounds is a pretty handy little carbine, can be easily detuned by changing hammer springs, and with the big air reservoir at low powers it gives tons of shots.
a used Verminator would be a good gun for you too
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A verminator would be pretty sweet
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Knowing that for some strange reason everyone wants new-except some old timers and folks who shoot matchs- I'll stick with my used advize and +1 that idea of a used BSA Ultra.
I had looked at the Ultra, but I wasn't sure if it was easy to up the power. All I saw on PA was it regulated for 12fpe, and I don't know if it would be easy for someone without access to a shop to adjust for more power. I definitely want 20+ fpe.
I would actually prefer buying used (especially from GTA members) because then I'd know what I'm getting (and I sometimes get bored searching for the right pellet... I know, I'm lame). I just want a light rifle with 20+ fpe, multishot, good shot count, and that doesn't feel like a broomstick in the field. Adjustable power would be nice, but isn't a deal-breaker.
The Rainstorm at 39" and 7.2 pounds is a pretty handy little carbine, can be easily detuned by changing hammer springs, and with the big air reservoir at low powers it gives tons of shots.
The rainstorm definitely intrigues me, and especially because...
If I went with a 510 carbine, I'd still need to add an LDC to make it backyard friendly, so I might as well start with the full-length 510, in my thinking. If that's the case, then I might as well look at other sub-8-pound guns that are less than 40"--with some using an add-on LDC would be close to the same length as a standard 510. Even a Scorpion or an S200 with a LDC should bring me to the general length of a 510.
Am I forgetting something, or does that make sense?
So for right now, I'm thinking used, in these choices:
- standard-length 510
- a tuned-up Ultra with an LDC or a working shroud
- a scorpion with a stubby LDC (or a shroud?)
- a rainstorm (maybe some work on the shroud? I haven't heard one)
- a tuned-up s200 with a stubby LDC
- I guess I could go with a Synrod if it's got good accuracy, but why would someone let a good grouper go?
The one thing I really like about the 510 is the adjustable power. That's not super-important, though, if adjusting other rifles isn't too hard (I need to shoot in a metal building at times, and then hit ground squirrels at 50+ yards at others).
Bang for the buck, I think this is where I'm stuck. I can't see getting an FX, etc. for $800...
Am I way off base?
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Interesting to see how this kind of morphed. Are 3 on that list I'd not call really light weight. Not that that is a bad thing, can normally shoot a medium weight rifle better than the light weights.
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Light weight, powerfull, repeater. Sounds like a Sumatra carbine is in your future.
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Interesting to see how this kind of morphed. Are 3 on that list I'd not call really light weight. Not that that is a bad thing, can normally shoot a medium weight rifle better than the light weights.
Totally! I figured if I was going to lengthen the rifle in order to keep it backyard friendly, I might as well look at guns that were a little heavier, but still relatively "short". I'd still like it to be pretty light, but as long as I'm not lugging around a bench gun, I figure I'm doing OK...
Light weight, powerfull, repeater. Sounds like a Sumatra carbine is in your future.
I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I really don't like the way they look. I'm also not into the lever action. If it was a standard bolt or a side-lever, I might waffle on the looks department.
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I will tell you one thing- if I ever cross over to the darkside I will definitely buy used. I imagine I probably won't by another new airgun period, except maybe from flying dragon with a full tune. With the deals that come up in the classifieds, I don't think any of the other retailers can hang. Lord knows I have lost enough money buying new and selling later on.
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I will tell you one thing- if I ever cross over to the darkside I will definitely buy used. I imagine I probably won't by another new airgun period, except maybe from flying dragon with a full tune. With the deals that come up in the classifieds, I don't think any of the other retailers can hang. Lord knows I have lost enough money buying new and selling later on.
The choir asks if you could be quiet please. ;)
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The HATSAN AT44 or 65's are pretty light while packing a good punch too.
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Once you take a Rainstorm down to 20-30 FPE it will be real quiet, way more quiet than a Maurader pistol or you standard springer
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I will tell you one thing- if I ever cross over to the darkside I will definitely buy used. I imagine I probably won't by another new airgun period, except maybe from flying dragon with a full tune. With the deals that come up in the classifieds, I don't think any of the other retailers can hang. Lord knows I have lost enough money buying new and selling later on.
The choir asks if you could be quiet please. ;)
LOL. I guess someone has to jump on the grenade!
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Knowing that for some strange reason everyone wants new-except some old timers and folks who shoot matchs- I'll stick with my used advize and +1 that idea of a used BSA Ultra.
I had looked at the Ultra, but I wasn't sure if it was easy to up the power. All I saw on PA was it regulated for 12fpe, and I don't know if it would be easy for someone without access to a shop to adjust for more power. I definitely want 20+ fpe.
I would actually prefer buying used (especially from GTA members) because then I'd know what I'm getting (and I sometimes get bored searching for the right pellet... I know, I'm lame). I just want a light rifle with 20+ fpe, multishot, good shot count, and that doesn't feel like a broomstick in the field. Adjustable power would be nice, but isn't a deal-breaker.
The Rainstorm at 39" and 7.2 pounds is a pretty handy little carbine, can be easily detuned by changing hammer springs, and with the big air reservoir at low powers it gives tons of shots.
The rainstorm definitely intrigues me, and especially because...
If I went with a 510 carbine, I'd still need to add an LDC to make it backyard friendly, so I might as well start with the full-length 510, in my thinking. If that's the case, then I might as well look at other sub-8-pound guns that are less than 40"--with some using an add-on LDC would be close to the same length as a standard 510. Even a Scorpion or an S200 with a LDC should bring me to the general length of a 510.
Am I forgetting something, or does that make sense?
So for right now, I'm thinking used, in these choices:
- standard-length 510
- a tuned-up Ultra with an LDC or a working shroud
- a scorpion with a stubby LDC (or a shroud?)
- a rainstorm (maybe some work on the shroud? I haven't heard one)
- a tuned-up s200 with a stubby LDC
- I guess I could go with a Synrod if it's got good accuracy, but why would someone let a good grouper go?
The one thing I really like about the 510 is the adjustable power. That's not super-important, though, if adjusting other rifles isn't too hard (I need to shoot in a metal building at times, and then hit ground squirrels at 50+ yards at others).
Bang for the buck, I think this is where I'm stuck. I can't see getting an FX, etc. for $800...
Am I way off base?
Ultra has a 12" barrel which limits the power a bit. You can get 25+ fpe but the shot count will suffer. Scorpion is more powerful, with 18.5" barrel 33+ fpe for 30+ shots and even the carbine version with 15" barrel is capable of 30 fpe. To up the power on Ultra you need to drill out the transfer port and to get a stiffer hammer spring. For newer SE models you can get HUMA regulators which are rather easy to install and can be taken off if needed.
Both are threaded for LDC and Huub makes shrouds for them that are as quiet as your average silencer while being some 2" shorter. The good thing about those BSAs is that you can fit in a 28mm shroud which makes them rather effective when compared to 22mm or 25mm shrouds that you can fit in most other guns.
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The Flying Dragon PCP that Mike builds is not multishot, thought that is being engineered now, but is lightweight and easily adjustable to power levels greater than 20 fpe. . I have one on the way so can't provide first hand knowledge yet, but will be posting first impressions as soon as I receive it. There are a few post on GTA from users that have received theirs and all have been quite favorable.
It is a no frills gun, but very inexpensive ($100.00 for the gun, $240.00 for pump and gun shipped) and Mike has a great reputation for his guns and standing behind what he sells. Might be worth a look see.
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Ultra has a 12" barrel which limits the power a bit. You can get 25+ fpe but the shot count will suffer. Scorpion is more powerful, with 18.5" barrel 33+ fpe for 30+ shots and even the carbine version with 15" barrel is capable of 30 fpe. To up the power on Ultra you need to drill out the transfer port and to get a stiffer hammer spring. For newer SE models you can get HUMA regulators which are rather easy to install and can be taken off if needed.
Both are threaded for LDC and Huub makes shrouds for them that are as quiet as your average (*^% while being some 2" shorter. The good thing about those BSAs is that you can fit in a 28mm shroud which makes them rather effective when compared to 22mm or 25mm shrouds that you can fit in most other guns.
Thanks for the BSA info. I wasn't sure about the Ultra's power range. With the shrouds, how many "extra" inches are reserved for an air stripper, in the 28mm tube?
I keep going back to the s510, because of the power adjuster: I can go to the dehydrator and shoot inside, and then go back outside and take care of ground squirrels. The shorter BSA and Rainstorm is nice, though... I am _so_ waffling, right now. Haha.
The Flying Dragon PCP that Mike builds is not multishot, thought that is being engineered now, but is lightweight and easily adjustable to power levels greater than 20 fpe. . I have one on the way so can't provide first hand knowledge yet, but will be posting first impressions as soon as I receive it. There are a few post on GTA from users that have received theirs and all have been quite favorable.
It is a no frills gun, but very inexpensive ($100.00 for the gun, $240.00 for pump and gun shipped) and Mike has a great reputation for his guns and standing behind what he sells. Might be worth a look see.
I exchanged e-mails with Mike the other day, and he told me a multishot from XS is likely two years out. I'm not sure where the research on the add-on indexer is, though I know he said he'd be shipping a 60c for prototyping. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't have even posted here, as I love everything Mike has done for me and my father. Even getting an extra match-grade barrel installed would be considerably less than the other PCPs I'm considering, but all of the features I want just aren't there.
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Light weight, powerfull, repeater. Sounds like a Sumatra carbine is in your future.
I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I really don't like the way they look. I'm also not into the lever action. If it was a standard bolt or a side-lever, I might waffle on the looks department.
I never tire of carrying my Career Carbine while hunting. The power is easily adjusted by hand (no tools needed). It can also been quieted simply. The lever action provides for quick follow up shoots. Faster than any bolt action or side lever could. It is also really fun to shoot.
Good luck in your search for the perfect gun, it is always a fun journey.
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You could get a S410/S510, ditch the shroud and use a regular LDC with adapter or have one made that fits the barrel. With carbine version that would be relatively short (around one meter) and you would only need to get a barrel band for UK model of S410 that comes without a shroud.
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Finally got smart(-ish?) and tried a bit of hands-on comparison time. Maybe I'm overthinking the length aspect: My dad's QB is 45 inches, with the LDC, and it doesn't feel that unwieldy. It's also a tad over 7.5 pounds (with small, cheap scope and BKLs).
Is there enough space in the 510 shroud to monkey with the internals, if needed? I know that using an LDC anywhere but my back yard will get iffy...
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Not sure what you want to monkey with? If you are looking for quiet, leave it be. It is very quiet. Mine is very accurate and while mine is full length, it has fantastic balance and is very easy to shoulder and use in the woods. The only time I notice the length is when I put it in the safe.
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That's exactly what I needed to hear, on all counts! I was wondering why full-length S510s were considered candidates for LDCs. I don't need to hear my own heart beat, but I definitely don't want a rifle to sound like a .22 short.
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I just took delivery of an AA S510 carbine in walnut. Very nice light gun. Fit and finish is like Daystate but the stock on the AA has a dull finish. I've only fired a few rounds through the AA and while it isn't as accurate as my Daystate Huntsman, maybe with some time and some more pellets through it, accuracy will improve. Nice thing about the AA guns is their magazines only cost $39.00, where as the Daystate magazines are 1/10th the price of the gun ::).
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;D Don't know about the Daystate Huntsman or the s510 but the Rainstorm II .25 and it is a sweet powerful carbine just started shooting and have not fooled with the power just yet but the hammer spring will be replaced shortly and the tuning will begin in the next week or so after some additional break-in and cleaning. The others are on my want list for now while I purchase essential support equipment
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Been kind of looking for something to get my wife to shoot, that meet the same list you have. I have been looking at the Brocock line of rifles as of late. 3.5lbs with no scope,6 shot mag, and there is a version that is at the 20 fps. The ones I have seen are around the $650 range and look like great little rifles.