GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: snakebite4767 on December 30, 2013, 10:59:27 PM
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If I plan to use CO2, which gun should I buy, a Discovery or a QB79?
Snakebite
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QB79
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Are there tanks available that fit on the QB79 and clear the barrel without the need for an adapter? About how many shots could I expect from a 9oz tank if the gun were a .22 caliber? Do I need to pay for to get a tuned gun, or is a stock gun good? Any idea just what a tune-up consist of?
Snakebite
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Found some 9oz. screwed on without touching, but most did. There is an off-set adaptor (from a dealer less than popular on this site). ran mine mostly with the little (but more expensive) 3.5oz. bottles.
As factory set, it's not a real fast gun, but also not a gas hog, so something like 550-600 shots per 9oz tank. Cranked up a bit for more power, and the shot count is lower.
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Are you dead set on just those two rifles? The 2260, QB78 and XS60C are a couple other choices...
If it was me the XS60c would need a hard look.
CW
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I was looking at those two since both can be modded into repeaters.
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CWLS; That Crosman 2260 looks nice.... it doesn't appear to be set up to accept a scope.. I don't know how many cartridges it takes.. or if it can be bulk filled. It seems like going with CO2 keeps me under 600 fps with a 22 cal, and only around 7-8 fpe. I would like to have something a bit hotter than that. (14-15 fpe) When I got the "Erge" to have a pre-charged gun, I looked at the prices they ask for these High Pressure Air bottles and I about "Flipped". I considered a Diving tank, but when I checked with the closest dive shop (about 45 mi away), they told me I needed some sort of Diving certificate to get anything filled. Bottom line was that it just seemed to be such a big PIA to try and use High pressure air without spending a fortune to get a compressor. Soooooooooooooo, I considered CO2, which I can get at several places.. even at the welding supply house. I started out with the Discovery as my target gun, and was going to get a refurb from AGD...but as usual..... they were out of stock. So I weaved all over the place looking at this and that .... it is obvious that I know little or nothing about pre-charged guns!
I'm starting to think that a High Pressure or CO2 gun may not be in my Immediate future. I am defiantly an impulsive buyer, and my Blood pressure is starting come down ... If I can hold out another day of two... this all may pass. ;D
Snakebite
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LOL Snake bite I did the exact same...
Give it time and all things will be clearer and the right path will appear or at least become a little more obvious...
I still say for the costs, I would look REAL hard at the XS60c and a pump. Its HPA but LO HPA meaning EASYER pumping. NO CO2 so NO NONE ZERO attachments to any other supplier sans your own sweat equity. All for 240$. The Disco is $250... Just throwing it out there.
I was DEAD SET on a Disco too... then the Marauder came into focus. I knew all about it, my shooting buddie had one and I even shot it... I still wanted the Disco. As you may know, I bought the M-rod and LOVE IT! (SERIOUSLY considering peddling some of my springers too!!) For me the XS60c should quench that .22 PCP want, right nicely. ;) :o ;D ;D ;D I am TRING to resist... But too many more posts about the great XS60c and I will not be able to keep composure. :P :P :P :P
Lots of choices.
OOH Yea, BTW, the 2260, WILL mount a scope JUST FINE. ;) With a 11mm dovetail, shoots from ONE 12g CO2 and gets you a real 525-535fps with a 15g pellet. Its a 12g Disco YES it can be bulk filled same or just about same conversion as any CO2 gun. BOTH the QB series and 2260 are open to serious tinkering.
CW
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You might have a look at one of these,Hammerli 850.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hammerli-850-airmagnum?m=913#Specifications (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hammerli-850-airmagnum?m=913#Specifications)
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You will need to add a Crosman steel breech (or aftermarket breech) to mount a scope, or use the Crosman intermounts (which IMO are a PITA).... The 2260 has the same plastic breech as a 2240....
Bob
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You will need to add a Crosman steel breech (or aftermarket breech) to mount a scope, or use the Crosman intermounts (which IMO are a PITA).... The 2260 has the same plastic breech as a 2240....
Bob
YES I stand corrected!! :( :( THANKS Bob!! Thanks for the correction!!
I have a couple of these and ordered the steel breech's from the get go...
CW
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WHEW! Thank you all very much for your feedback.... I've taken my temperature and can see that I am cooling down a bit. On my way down, I'm right now passing through the "Discovery" zone, and they are once again looking good to me... if I can make it a few more days I believe that I can make a full recovery. ???
Happy New Year's to you all.
Snakebite
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WHEW! Thank you all very much for your feedback.... I've taken my temperature and can see that I am cooling down a bit. On my way down, I'm right now passing through the "Discovery" zone, and they are once again looking good to me... if I can make it a few more days I believe that I can make a full recovery. ???
Happy New Year's to you all.
Snakebite
I predict the fever will be return. ;D
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WHEW! Thank you all very much for your feedback.... I've taken my temperature and can see that I am cooling down a bit. On my way down, I'm right now passing through the "Discovery" zone, and they are once again looking good to me... if I can make it a few more days I believe that I can make a full recovery. ???
Happy New Year's to you all.
Snakebite
I predict the fever will be return. ;D
YUP... usually works that way. ;)
Took some of my own advice Snake bite!! Ordered my own XS60c from Mike today. ;)
CW
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WHEW! Thank you all very much for your feedback.... I've taken my temperature and can see that I am cooling down a bit. On my way down, I'm right now passing through the "Discovery" zone, and they are once again looking good to me... if I can make it a few more days I believe that I can make a full recovery. ???
Happy New Year's to you all.
Snakebite
I predict the fever will be return. ;D
YUP... usually works that way. ;)
Took some of my own advice Snake bite!! Ordered my own XS60c from Mike today. ;)
CW
I sure looked at them hard myself. One thing that keeps me from jumping on one is the low power that they tout. 7 fpe is just not enough to suit me. I watched a You-tube video on the Disco run on CO2, and it showed some decent power... that is one of the reasons that I keep coming back to it... also... if I find a good way to supply High Pressure air... the gun is capable of utilizing it without any need for changes to be made. DRATS! I hate being in this zone of indecistion.
Snakebite
Snakebite
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Snakebite, the Flying Dragon PCP XS60C conversion looks to be shooting 15 gr pellets at 800 fps. Thats 21 fp. So it has plenty of power.
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Snakebite, the Flying Dragon PCP XS60C conversion looks to be shooting 15 gr pellets at 800 fps. Thats 21 fp. So it has plenty of power.
YUP, I was just gonna say that!! LOL AND according to Mike The XS has adjustments and should do 800FPS at MED settings with a 15.5g Pellet.
For me, its a nice fit, My Webly will send a 9g pellet @ 800+FPS for at least 13FPE, RWS34 is sending a14.3@700fps for 15-15.5FPE. My Sheridan, Steroid that's supposed to be doing almost 900FPS with a 14.3g. That's a honest 24-25 FPE and the M-rod .25 should be close to 50 FPE as I have it set. (Will chrony to confirm when I can) I would be doing more with that Sheridan, but its LOUD and not easily quieted... This new XS with a LDC should make a very nice addition! Will do EVERYTHING I ever wanted form a CO2 gun only better and easier. Easier once I'm completely setup with the support system for the M-rod.
CW
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Snakebite, the Flying Dragon PCP XS60C conversion looks to be shooting 15 gr pellets at 800 fps. Thats 21 fp. So it has plenty of power.
Just so you're looking at the right gun: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/blog/?p=642 (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/blog/?p=642)
This is not to be confused with the CO2 version he sells regularly in his store.
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Would have to ask Mike, but it could work well as a bulk fill co2. Bigger tube, more volume, more room for co2. Wouldn't get the power that ai gives, but looks like it would hold enough bulk filled co2 for a lot of shots.
tried bulk filling co2, and was never really happy with the process. Worked great, but getting a reasonable amount of co2 into a bulk fill gun takes a bit of work. Did like tankers, where you just screw on a paintball tank. Really hated the cost of 88gr. AirSorce type cartridges.
But now that you are considering other co2 rifles and not just the Disco and QB79, consider the RWS850 converted to paintball tanks. Not a giant fan of this gun converted to HPA, but is is something you could do later and many owners love them on HPA.
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Snakebite, the Flying Dragon PCP XS60C conversion looks to be shooting 15 gr pellets at 800 fps. Thats 21 fp. So it has plenty of power.
Just so you're looking at the right gun: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/blog/?p=642 (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/blog/?p=642)
This is not to be confused with the CO2 version he sells regularly in his store.
Wow! That looks pretty neat... do you know if this gun will also work on CO2?
Snakebite
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Snakebite, the Flying Dragon PCP XS60C conversion looks to be shooting 15 gr pellets at 800 fps. Thats 21 fp. So it has plenty of power.
Just so you're looking at the right gun: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/blog/?p=642 (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/blog/?p=642)
This is not to be confused with the CO2 version he sells regularly in his store.
Wow! That looks pretty neat... do you know if this gun will also work on CO2?
Snakebite
The XS60c started out as a CO2 gun. Its a copy of a Umerx Fusion rifle. (177 only) The XS is available in 177 & 22. Its currently in a second version. These PCPs where the first version that had some leaking problems. Converting them to PCP cures this problem.
So if your liking it, but the current XS60c in CO2. If not go for the XS in PCP.
CW
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Not sure how the PCP version would make a worse CO2 bulk fill. Certainly kind of a "waste" of ability, but considering the pressure recommendation for the PCP version, would think that it would be a decent co2 performer without a lot of adjusting.
I kind of agree, as I like my co2 in 12gr. or in paintball bottles, not loving bulk fill. But if i were a co2 bulk fill fan, would want the longer tube of the PCP version.
If we knew the volume, could estimate the safe fill weight of co2. Typical paintball tank fills to about 1 ounce of co2 for each 43 cc's of volume.
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Mike's PCP 60c can run on Co2. Talk to Mike I think with a full power tune the rifle can get about 12 fpe in .22. The bolt cocking maybe a little stiff because he adds a shim. He had mentioned he was doing some testing with the long tube so may have some info on shot count. JMO
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I think I read it was a 115cc tube?
CW
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I think I read it was a 115cc tube?
CW
That would be approx 2 3/4 oz of CO2, or about 78 gm or about 6 1/2 12 gm CO2 cartridges. A 20 oz tank would hold about 568 gm... it cost $5.95 to fill at Dick's Sporting goods.
How many shots would that be? One post says that a 88 gm tank will provide "Up to 400 shots".. hummm, that would be 2,580 shots in a 20 oz tank. I seriously doubt that it would come even close to that number, but... let's say it comes to half of that.... or 1290 shots. ....Bottom line... considering the pellet cost and the CO2, it ends up costing about 1 penny a shot if you buy CO2 20 oz at a time. No doubt that a large bulk tank from the Welding Supply would bring that price way down. That's not too bad. (assuming that I figured correctly... all you "Geeks and Nerds" please check my figures. :o
Snakebite
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The shot count will vary depending on the tuning. My QB79 has Mikes basic tune to shoot CPHP at 700fps. With a 7oz CO2 tank I get about 200 shots. That's just a guess-- I've never counted. I think the untuned version gets double? Something like that.
The same probably applies to the XS60C since the valves are similar.
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The shot count will vary depending on the tuning. My QB79 has Mikes basic tune to shoot CPHP at 700fps. With a 7oz CO2 tank I get about 200 shots. That's just a guess-- I've never counted. I think the untuned version gets double? Something like that.
The same probably applies to the XS60C since the valves are similar.
Andy, What caliber?
Snakebite
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Andy, What caliber?
Snakebite
It's a .177. Great warm weather rifle. If I could only keep two of my guns it would be this and my 2289 with 18" barrel. One three season gun and the 2289 for the winter. Also, easy to go HPA later. A $80 13CI Ninja bottle (PRO SHP) and a pump ($100-$150) and I am set. From what I've read, this would push the CPHP at over 800FPS. For now, I'm keeping it as a CO2 rifle. It's just nice to sit and shoot a couple hundred rounds without worrying about refills. Refills cost me $3.50 a piece. Add a 500 tin of pellets for $8. It's a cheap date.
With Mike's basic tune, the QB79 cost is comparable to a refurb Discovery ($160 vs $175 if I recall correctly). Add the cost of the CO2 bottle and its pretty even. The QB79 is just more convenient because of the high shot count. Swapping bottles also easier than bulk filling.