GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Evanix Airguns => Topic started by: rkr on December 30, 2013, 12:58:04 PM
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While taking my Blizzard apart I noticed that the barrel was sitting too far in front of the breech which caused roughly 1mm misalignment to the barrel port and the actual transfer port. You can screw the barrel "collar" off and file it shorter to make the barrel go further in the breech. This will remove one of the bottlenecks in the gun and it will also help the probe to seal better to the barrel o-ring.
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Good catch. You wouldnt happen to have a picture of this "collor" set up would you?
John
It's that threaded piece around the barrel where the shroud attaches to. You can screw it off the block and file some metal off the back of it to make it shorter. I took about 1mm off of mine and the ports in the barrel and block are now aligned.
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Have you noticed any performance changes?
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I checked the same thing on my WC II and the barrel is independent of the the collar. Maybe it is different between the Blizz and mine.
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Have you noticed any performance changes?
This was noticed during the maintenance/teardown that I do to any new guns I buy so no. But, increasing the transfer port size by 1mm which this blueprint did should have a noticeable effect. This also means that in these guns you can adjust the transfer port size by rotating the barrel. The limiting factor in these guns seems to be the valve that I'll tackle later when I get some baseline established with the gun. One of the local lads already managed to make 150 fpe with some valve and TP work.
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One of the local lads already managed to make 150 fpe with some valve and TP work.
This is interesting info. I'm following this thread with great interest. Pushing the 78 grain JSBs at 930 fps (150 FPE) would make for some interesting longer range shooting. I'm one of those who believes that these 9mm Rainstorms are just airguns and will be tunable. The only question in my mind is "how" - which is why this is interesting to me. I've seen the same thing done with other notoriously "hard to tune" guns. Once people start digging with a "can-do" spirit, it's amazing what can actually be done.
If somebody figures out how to successfully valve and port these 9mm Rainstorms, and then you combine this with their very easy spring swappability - you could easily have a gun that can be configured within 5 minutes to either shoot several shots at 150-180 FPE or many more shots at lower FPE.
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;D I still want the parts diagram for my .25 before I do anything more than change the hammer spring ::) :-[ I love to tinker but prefer to do so with some idea of what I am getting into ;D ;D
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Well, my goal is around 870-900 fps. I still have some way to go, first five shots from 200 bar fill with JSBs:
825
827
829
824
821
So, if I hadn't fixed that port I'd be doing much worse. The trigger is still bad even after I did a light polish job, I need to look further in to that.
The peak of the power could actually be a bit lower so I need to improve the flow and efficiency, need to check the valve and o-rings after the trigger is sorted.
Here's an exploded diagram for those needing it https://www.gunspares.co.uk/showcatimage.asp?id=25020 (https://www.gunspares.co.uk/showcatimage.asp?id=25020)
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That looks like the older receiver/1st gen. I am very interested in what you come up with on the valve and such.
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Results after some valve work, JSBs and stock transfer port:
200 bar
850 fps
852 fps
856 fps
851 fps
848 fps
165 bar
-> 125 fpe or 170 joules so far while the goal is 150 fpe / 200 joules
It seems that I need to enlarge the transfer port a bit. The peak of the curve is spot on for five shots and I don't want to increase the hammer spring tension.
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Pretty impressive already, without hammer spring tension increase - in effect shifting an actual shot string bell curve further right on the FPE scale. Very nice.
I look forward to hearing more details on what exact "valve work", etc you are doing.
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Pretty impressive already, without hammer spring tension increase - in effect shifting an actual shot string bell curve further right on the FPE scale. Very nice.
I look forward to hearing more details on what exact "valve work", etc you are doing.
Well, I opened the valve outlet to 6.5mm, rounded the corners inside and centered the valve spring to the inlet hole. I can take off some more from the valve outlet and make the hole slightly elliptical to further increase the flow. At that point the stock 6mm transfer port will start restricting the power so I plan on drilling it out to 6.5mm as well. That should increase the power again and if it goes up enough I can reduce the hammer spring tension and move the power peak down in the pressure range giving me more useful shots. A 10 shot curve peaking at 150 fpe would be nice.
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Thanks for the useful info. Staying tuned.
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;D ;D Just changed out the Hammer spring on my Rainstorm II (thanks Manny) will post a 10 shot string later today . I will be looking to improve/soften the sound if I can figure out the shroud internals if not then an LDC is going to be ordered soon after the Freedom 8 compressor and a 4500 psi tank. Mostly target and plinker so hand pumping gets old real fast ;D ;D ;D
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RKR can you get some pics next time you tear the rainstorm down, I would really like to see the mods you've made.
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Here are some photos.
Valve parts, a new collar and polished spring ends.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/valve-parts-1_zps85cd06c4.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/valve-parts-1_zps85cd06c4.jpg.html)
Centering collar for the spring in place.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/valve-parts-2_zpsb615a682.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/valve-parts-2_zpsb615a682.jpg.html)
Spring not blocking the inlet.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/valve-parts-3_zpsd2d5275c.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/valve-parts-3_zpsd2d5275c.jpg.html)
Valve outlet after drilling and porting.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/valve-parts-4_zps54fe2f1a.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/valve-parts-4_zps54fe2f1a.jpg.html)
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I wasn't 100% happy with the barrel to transfer port alignment so I redid it by moving the barrel a bit further back. The results:
200 bar
840
852
856
854
868
854
838
823
So, the air passage was indeed opened up a bit more and the peak power shifted down a bit and rised some. That 868 fps is suspiciously high number but that's what my chrono showed - perhaps a smaller diameter pellet ??? Anyway, it seems that a 6.5mm transfer port and some further porting of the valve housing is needed to get more power at usable pressure range. I just need to double and quadruble check that all the holes are actually lined up, Evanix does have quite sloppy tolerances >:(
Edit, another mismatch found. The opening in the valve housing is 0.6mm off the transfer port. The transfer port is actually partly over the o-ring!!! I need to fix this as well. Really poor show from Evanix.
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These are increasingly interesting observations and results. Your strings are looking better and better.
My .357 Rainstorm is hitting a peak of about 133 FPE with the JSB 78 grains, but that is with the hammer spring pre-load cranked in as far as possible. The shot string on that setting is the classic downwards slope - no bell curve or plateau at all - and I would guess (haven't chronied in a while) that the total FPE over 8 shots is probably less than your string above.
(I haven't done any of the porting, alignments or other things that you are detailing here.)
With this latest string, how far in is your hammer spring pre-load? Did you change it at all from the factory setting (either in or out) for this string?
EDIT: Here's a typical FACTORY setting string for a .357 Rainstorm. This shows how much improvement you've already gained.
78 gr:
1. 820
2. 822
3. 807
4. 802
5. 804
6. 786
7. 771
- Peak FPE above is 116 FPE.
- The same gun that shot this string shot a 93 grain bullet at 799 fps for 132 FPE - so your own Rainstorm is technically probably an 150 FPE gun already (although I know that your goal is to reach that with the JSBs at mid 900 fps).
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These are increasingly interesting observations and results. Your strings are looking better and better.
My .357 Rainstorm is hitting a peak of about 133 FPE with the JSB 78 grains, but that is with the hammer spring pre-load cranked in as far as possible. The shot string on that setting is the classic downwards slope - no bell curve or plateau at all - and I would guess (haven't chronied in a while) that the total FPE over 8 shots is probably less than your string above.
(I haven't done any of the porting, alignments or other things that you are detailing here.)
With this latest string, how far in is your hammer spring pre-load? Did you change it at all from the factory setting (either in or out) for this string?
EDIT: Here's a typical FACTORY setting string for a .357 Rainstorm. This shows how much improvement you've already gained.
78 gr:
1. 820
2. 822
3. 807
4. 802
5. 804
6. 786
7. 771
- Peak FPE above is 116 FPE.
- The same gun that shot this string shot a 93 grain bullet at 799 fps for 132 FPE - so your own Rainstorm is technically probably an 150 FPE gun already (although I know that your goal is to reach that with the JSBs at mid 900 fps).
The hammer spring is at factory settings. This means that improving the flow has actually moved the power peak to lower pressure region. I do have some bullets that I'm going to test after I'm satisfied with the results using JSBs. I think I can live with 880-900 fps but what I'm really looking to is to move the peak power down which would net me more useful shots. That last string is just perfect for one magazine worth of pellets but ideally I'd like to get two mags out of it which means that I should have the peak power with 7th shot or thereabouts.
Any ideas how to enlarge the transfer port forwards in the breech? Normal drilling will expand it to both directions and that would mean trouble with the barrel to transfer port alignment as I can't really move the barrel backwards any more.
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Thanks for the pics and information, very nice.
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Any ideas how to enlarge the transfer port forwards in the breech? Normal drilling will expand it to both directions and that would mean trouble with the barrel to transfer port alignment as I can't really move the barrel backwards any more.
I see your point.... no concrete ideas on that enlargement 'cause I'm not a machining expert like some of our forum members here. Wish someone else would chime in. A lot of people stand to gain from the kinds of improvements/tweaks you're continuing to find here.
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Some thoughts about the Evanix valve system and how to improve it.
First restriction we face is the air inlet to the valve housing. It's 7.5mm hole which is plenty for a 6mm stock transfer port size. You can round out the edges of that hole to reduce the turbulence of incoming air. Right after the hole becomes our first bottle neck, the valve spring. Valve spring has 7.5mm ID matching the hole size. Unfortunately the spring has 10mm OD and it sits in an indention that's 14mm in diameter. This means that the spring can bounce around and it usually blocks the incoming air hole partially. This can be fixed by making a "cup" or collar for the spring, 14mm OD and 10mm ID with 7.5mm hole in the bottom. That centers the spring around the incoming air hole. Not much more that we can do here unless we ran without the spring or make a special spring with different end diameters, the spring is the restricting factor.
Next comes the actual valve housing. The valve has 4mm stem and it moves inside a 7.5mm tunnel. This means that the there's 31.6mm2 area in between the stem and the housing. This is more than the stock transfer port area of 28.3mm2 and would be a good match for 6.5mm transfer port with area of 33.2mm2. It might be possible to drill out the valve tunnel to 8mm which would give an area of 37.6mm2 that would then match a 7mm transfer port with an area of 38.2mm2. However, it is quite possible that this would cause sealing issues as the valve seals against a ring that's just outside the valve tunnel. Personally I didn't see this as something I'd like to gamble with.
In the valve housing we have the next actual bottle neck, the outlet hole. The stock one is 6mm in diameter and we can enlargen it to 6.5mm but no larger or we'll be drilling to the o-rings on both sides of the port. It would be possible to grind the hole to oval shape to introduce some additional area. What we can easily do here is to drill out the hole to 6.5mm diameter and then grind out the valve housing to provide air a smooth turn from the valve tunnel to the hole.
Next is the transfer port. In my gun the transfer port drilling was almost touching the barrel o-ring so I had no choice but to enlargen the port forwards. As I had to grind it out I took the opportunity of making it oval. On most guns drilling it out to 6.5mm would probably be the easy way to improve the flow.
The final thing is the barrel. Here again we can round out the transfer port opening forward providing the air a bit smoother path.
As a conclusion I'd say that the valve system is quite well designed for 6mm hole size and it can be enlarged to 6.5mm size quite easily. If that's not enough we can do some more daring tricks and go towards 7mm size but then we risk going too far at some points in the air route.
I just redid all things in my gun to match that 6.5mm opening size, I just need to get some new o-rings for the valve housing and we'll see how much did it help to max it all out.
For more power I'd have to drill out the valve tunnel to 8mm (risky), make the valve housing outlet oval and modify the transfer port so it matches the valve outlet at the bottom while being 7mm in diameter at the top (tricky).
Slainte, Riku
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Local automotive shop was out of 16x2mm o-rings so I put the gun together with slightly nicked rings. Here are the results straight afte tune:
200 bar with JSBs
822 fps (first shot after tune, I guess it's OK to be low)
860 fps
870 fps
865 fps
862 fps
866 fps
866 fps
840 fps
827 fps
816 fps
130 bar
So that's 7 good shots topping at 130 fpe and 10 shots at over 800 fps. Now I could tighten up the hammer spring and up the power closer to 900 fps for 5 or sho shots, or drop the power a bit and I would be quite likely to get 14 shots at around 800 fps. The power peak is lowered a bit but I can't really switch it lower at this power level as the valve channels are what they are. I guess I need to try some 90+ grain bullets next to see if I can hit 150 fpe.
Edit, this is with factory hammer spring settings. With more spring pressure 150 fpe can be reached using JSBs but I use stock settings since want to keep the peak power down in the pressure range.
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Pretty darn good work there my friend ;)
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You've made some pretty solid shot string improvement to the Rainstorm .357. These shot strings are starting to blow the factory tune out of the water. For those who are interested, just compare to a few posts above to see what a typical factory tune is doing with the JSBs.
Looking very promising indeed in terms of greater shot count, higher power, and greater evenness. You've already got the "flatter shooting" happening with those JSBs. This is impressive, considering the general lack of tuning experience with these guns. Without breaking a sweat (and without a new spring, completely new valve or radical mod) this Rainstorm is now breaking 130 FPE with JSBs.
... and you've done this conservatively without cranking pre-load - so that if power were your goal you still have pre-load to spare and could throw in a 93 grain bullet - which could put you at about 160+ FPE with this current tune you have reached so far. Not bad at all.
I for one am staying tuned.
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Thanks guys. I think this is pretty much what we can achieve without any radical changes. The valve housing outlet could be made a bit more oval but I doubt it will give much more fps.
Now it's time to see what kind of a shot string can be achieved by increasing the spring pressure. I need 5 shot flat string for silhouette shooting so I could tighten the spring a bit. On the other hand I'd like to get 10 good shots for long range target shooting which the current tune already provides. Bullets are then another game, usually heavier bullets move the peak down so that needs to be tested as well. Unfortunately I only have two different samples of 25 bullets at hand so I need to figure out how to best use them. The gun is now too loud for me to test outside of my short garage range so I need to get a LDC and depinger before I can conduct longer range testing.
It's also worth noting that the gun now uses more air which was to be expected. Still, a nice improvement over the factory setup.
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Then comes the obligatory more power approach, this time I was looking for 5 powerful shots with JSBs so I turned the hammer spring adjuster two turns in:
200bar
871 fps
882 fps - 134 fpe
881 fps
879 fps
869 fps
150bar
I still have a power curve and the gun is using 10bar / shot. I think I'll keep this as my power adjustment for silhouette shooting and reduce the tension 2 turns for paper punching and long range shooting.
Edit:
94 grain bullet:
799 fps
790 fps (surprisingly low)
827 fps
828 fps 143 fpe
821 fps
It looks like I could up the spring pressure a bit with bullets, as I guessed the peak of the curve moved down in the pressure range with heavier bullets.
Edit 2, hammer spring 4 turn tighter than stock - 94 grain bullets
826 fps
832 fps
841 fps - 148 fpe
822 fps (oddly low again, perhaps it's the bullets)
824 fps
I could turn the hammer in a bit more but then I would start loosing that curve. So, 150 fpe is indeed doable with 9mm Evanix as is the power curve.
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Nice results and impressive power curve. Pretty decent for such a handy carbine. Whose 94 grain bullet is that please? I've got some 90 grains coming in that I'm looking forward to trying out too. First I might try to align my ports as you've demonstrated.
Have you ever tried the lighter Korean "9mm" pellets? I think they are about 58 grain. I have some tins, but all the writing is in Korean. I've heard some people trash them - but I've also seen others with better results in accuracy. Any issues might be fixable with sorting and a sizing tool to match those pellets properly to the Rainstorm bore. I think of those pellets for you because they might allow you to back off the pre-load completely (or even swap in a slightly lighter spring) and still get some very flat (high-900s) shooting for your silhouette - for a good two magazines with low-enough ES.
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That 5 shot string is pretty darn nice :)
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Nice results and impressive power curve. Pretty decent for such a handy carbine. Whose 94 grain bullet is that please? I've got some 90 grains coming in that I'm looking forward to trying out too. First I might try to align my ports as you've demonstrated.
Have you ever tried the lighter Korean "9mm" pellets? I think they are about 58 grain. I have some tins, but all the writing is in Korean. I've heard some people trash them - but I've also seen others with better results in accuracy. Any issues might be fixable with sorting and a sizing tool to match those pellets properly to the Rainstorm bore. I think of those pellets for you because they might allow you to back off the pre-load completely (or even swap in a slightly lighter spring) and still get some very flat (high-900s) shooting for your silhouette - for a good two magazines with low-enough ES.
Those bullets are cast by a local chap who has many different molds. The silhouettes we shoot are rather large and meant for black powder guns rams being at 100m distance, thus I need all the oomph I can get to knock them down. I believe heavy bullets are the key, not the light ones. I have some lighter bullets as well that I will try shortly.
The gun is fairly loud though, I was shooting in enclosed garage and my wife who was upstairs complained about the noise. Next task is to make a depinger and then I'll have a good LDC made for it. After that I can concentrate on longer range accuracy shooting. Long term plan is to make a nice traditional looking wood stocked bullpup out of this gun. I also have some plans for a HDD but we'll see how that goes and if it's really needed.
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Depinger, made without a lathe ;)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/depinger_zps6e510314.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/depinger_zps6e510314.jpg.html)
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Thanks, I have a better visual of the silhouette shooting now. Sounds like you'll have huge fun with that.
A 9-inch Neil Clague LDC also takes that noise right down. (It does for the .357 Rainstorm). It overlaps several inches of the shroud, so the net length increase is less. A healthy thump, but definitely no more ringing ears in the garage, or need for ear protection.
Nice looking de-pinger. How did you make it? Interesting that you would de-ping this, with the relative decibel level of the .357, even with an LDC. On a .22 Rainstorm with a Neil Clague LDC - all you hear is a ping. It's actually stunningly effective. But what are your thoughts about installing it in this gun?
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While installing the depinger (it actually works) I just had to touch the valve again. This time I drilled the valve housing around the valve stem for 8mm size and made the outlet to oval shape, 7mm wide and 6.5mm long. Unfortunately my second test shot broke the valve seal (piece chipped off). I managed to turn it around as a quick fix but it's not as good for the flow as it has a sharp edge and the widening of the stem blocks some flow as well :( Anyway, I still did some test shots and it seems that the power peak moved down in the range indicating better overall flow:
200 bar, 6,1 gr bullets
794 - 132 fpe
810
804
812
830 - 160 bar - 144 fpe
826
821
811
778
765 - 130 bar - 122 fpe
So that's 10 rather decent shots. Now I could up the spring tension a bit and I probably will when I get the valve fixed properly as the power peak is around 160 bar and I could rise it to 170-180 bar range for five good shots. It is most likely that I'd be well over 150 fpe at that point. The o-rings are also in bad shape, I ordered some new ones but they will take a while to get here.
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Thanks, I have a better visual of the silhouette shooting now. Sounds like you'll have huge fun with that.
A 9-inch Neil Clague LDC also takes that noise right down. (It does for the .357 Rainstorm). It overlaps several inches of the shroud, so the net length increase is less. A healthy thump, but definitely no more ringing ears in the garage, or need for ear protection.
Nice looking de-pinger. How did you make it? Interesting that you would de-ping this, with the relative decibel level of the .357, even with an LDC. On a .22 Rainstorm with a Neil Clague LDC - all you hear is a ping. It's actually stunningly effective. But what are your thoughts about installing it in this gun?
I've taken the shroud off, it does next to nothing for the noise. There are 5/8" threads at the barrel end so I'll have a LDC made to fit those.
The depinger was made in a bench drill. First I made a hole through a delrin disc exactly in the center (close to it in practice). Then I took a 24mm wood drill and drilled the disc in to cup. Then put a screw and nut through the center hole and attached it to a bench drill. Rotated the cup in a drill and used a chisel to remove material. O-ring grooves were made with modified nail :)
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One of the local lads reached 170 fpe before he also broke the plastic valve seat, 915 fps with 91 grain bullets. It looks like the stuff that Evanix uses is not well suited for higher power levels. I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw him doing 200 fpe when all is done and fixed.
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Thanks for the details on the depinger. I want to get into the kind of machining you do, but it's hard to know where to start.
The realistically achievable power is climbing for the Evanix .357 Rainstorm/Blizzard. I always believed that this gun would be tunable and what you've done already has pretty much proved this. 170-200 FPE doesn't seem that unreachable now - and it would place the Evanix solidly alongside the Recluse for a serious hunting and/or long distance shooting option, but in a pretty special niche of a repeater with that power. Remember also how easy it is to swap out a spring and/or hammer on these guns. It's a 5-minute job. I have hammers of 3 different weights for my Rainstorms, and they all fit in each gun. Springs too.
These parts in the valve - are you pretty confident that they can be fixed consistently? Do you think replacements could be "bulk machined" by people like yourself, or is it pretty much a one-off job individually for each gun?
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Wow, looking extremely promising here.
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I was talking to Will Piatt the other day just before he was sending me back my .25 StormPup and he's waiting for some new machinery for doing exactly this, get the Rainstorm .357 tuned to highier power, the future is bright :)
He's strating to look into turning TJ .250 barrels to install on the Rainstorms .25 and be a ble to shoot cast bullets and those are probably easily tuned to 100 FPE that way.
He's gonna keep me posted on developments and I'll let all you know when it's happening :) :)
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I was talking to Will Piatt the other day just before he was sending me back my .25 StormPup and he's waiting for some new machinery for doing exactly this, get the Rainstorm .357 tuned to highier power, the future is bright :)
He's strating to look into turning TJ .250 barrels to install on the Rainstorms .25 and be a ble to shoot cast bullets and those are probably easily tuned to 100 FPE that way.
He's gonna keep me posted on developments and I'll let all you know when it's happening :) :)
I figure I'll be getting Will's call any day for sending in my Rainstorm .357. He put me on the wait list about 5 weeks ago and said it was a 6 week wait so hopefully he can turn the beast into a better beast. I honestly don't think I could be happier with this gun. I'm sure when I get it back from him I'll be amazed!
I plan to get it fitted with the carbon shroud that lowers the bark to Marauder levels, a depinger, and a high power tune. It already shoots quarter size groups at 50 yards with ease but if he can tighten up the group as he claims I will be buying pellets by the cases lol.....
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You will not tame the bark to Maurader level, not on the .357
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You will not tame the bark to Maurader level, not on the .357
That's fine by me, I was going by his descriptions on his website but he doesn't specify which caliber. The bark of the gun doesn't bother me too bad now but I would like it as quiet as possible for when I hunt at night. Our neighbors don't mind the gun during daylight hours but I'm betting they may not be as understanding at 3am lol.....
I wish TKO or some of the other LCD providers would make an LCD for the gun that's readily available versus this 6 week &^^&. I had an LCD for my Discovery in 4 days from TKO and I have one on the way from them for the Hatsan .25 I'll be purchasing this week as well. Maybe there isn't a big enough demand for LDCs for the Rainstorms? How about the Sumatras? I want one of them in a .25 and would like an LCD for it as well. Hopefully that wouldn't take 6weeks?
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You will not tame the bark to Maurader level, not on the .357
Is that Marauder with LDC, or Marauder stock? The 9-inch LDC on one of these babies makes it much quieter than the .22 Rainstorm stock (without LDC) - so I'm guessing possibly even quieter than a Marauder stock.
I know you've got a good LDC (shorter than the 9-inch) on yours too. I think that 9-inch one does an incredible job.
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You will not tame the bark to Maurader level, not on the .357
Is that Marauder with LDC, or Marauder stock? The 9-inch LDC on one of these babies makes it much quieter than the .22 Rainstorm stock (without LDC) - so I'm guessing possibly even quieter than a Marauder stock.
I know you've got a good LDC (shorter than the 9-inch) on yours too. I think that 9-inch one does an incredible job.
I have a longer shroud on mine that I took from an AR6 with 5 1/2" of Baffles either 4 or 5 of them can't remember, than I have a 4 + 2 Clauge LDC on, it does take the bark down considerably, the problem when people start compare to the .177 .22 Mauraders and get their expectation to high.
I bet that that 9" (is that 9 + 2" ? ) LDC is really effective, I might order one myself from Neil, with my extended shroud and baffles might really make it pretty Quiet.
C.ALLS order one now from Neil so when you get your gun back the LDC should be almost there too :)
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C.ALLS, if Will can make you a 30" Carbon Shroud than it should come out pretty quiet
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Ho yeah I forgot, I have one of Will's carbon Shrouds on my .22 and they aren't threaded, so you can't put an LDC on
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I bet that that 9" (is that 9 + 2" ? ) LDC is really effective, I might order one myself from Neil, with my extended shroud and baffles might really make it pretty Quiet.
Yep - absolutely, it's 11" OAL with about 2" sliding over the shroud, so about 9" net gain on the length. I was doing some chrony work last night in the basement, so the effect is pretty fresh in my mind. There is a nice thump. It's quieter than a .22 Rainstorm.
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Neil sure makes quality stuff :)
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I was talking to Will Piatt the other day just before he was sending me back my .25 StormPup and he's waiting for some new machinery for doing exactly this, get the Rainstorm .357 tuned to highier power, the future is bright :)
He's strating to look into turning TJ .250 barrels to install on the Rainstorms .25 and be a ble to shoot cast bullets and those are probably easily tuned to 100 FPE that way.
He's gonna keep me posted on developments and I'll let all you know when it's happening :) :)
Definetly keep us posted Manny. 100 fpe would nice in a .25 rainstorm. What did Will do to your pup?
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Only the trigger, (I can get the triggers to my liking on the rifles but not on the Pups) his baffle system, depinger and set the gun to shoot the Benjamin 27.8gr at 950 fps, I'll post the shot string when the gun gets here.
the drop in T.J. barrel ( if everything goes well ) will be a great upgrade for those that want to shoot cast bullets
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You will not tame the bark to Maurader level, not on the .357
Hmm, not with a 25mm shroud that's around a 18mm barrel. A 50mm LDC is another story.
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Have you ever wondered why these big bores use so much air? The answer is that the hammer is like a bloody kangaroo. Here is a recording of one shot showing 4 bounce blasts after the actual shot:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/Bounces_zpsb3a0a4d3.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/Bounces_zpsb3a0a4d3.jpg.html)
I really need to make a debouncer for this gun, that's the worst hammer bounce measurement I've ever seen :o
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OK, one of the local lads has been tuning his 9mm Blizzard a bit more and today he reached 220 fpe :o I guess I need to do something, I'm waaay behind him at only 150 fpe :'(
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Whaaat ????
Details please
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I don't have all the details but there was some black magic valve tuning involved. I believe a goat was sacrified and some mushrooms were eaten or smoked in the process. Then bigger transfer port, some hammer work and a longer barrel. Finally heavy bullets to make it all happen.
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If those reports are accurate, this is very cool but isn't that surprising (in a good way). Look at other "9mm" guns like the Fire 201 or the Recluse, and how they were 120-160 FPE guns stock - but once tuners figured them out they got them to 200-250! FPE guns. Of course those guns also had enough breech clearance to take long bullets - but bullet weight is just a part of it, and I still wonder what might be possible single-loading the Rainstorm .357.
At that power level I'd be curious about the shot strings though - although rkr has already produced some very impressive shot strings that haven't sacrificed anything, but actually gained in power AND shot string quality.
...imagine what determined tuners could do with the 960cc Evanix Monster Premium .357 (230 BAR). We could start to see some really amazing big bore strings - like, say, a seriously long string of flat 200 FPE shots, maybe 15 or more. But that's a pricey gun.
Anyway, look forward to more on the Rainstorm.
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When we reach these power levels quite a lot of modifications are needed. The stock valve seals can no longer take the banging. The valve stem is also taking the beating. The stem on my spare valve started to expand in diameter eventually locking it open causing it to dump all the air in one shot, talk about a recoil >:( I guess I need to take a deep breath, make new seals and start from the beginning now. 150 fpe is nice but I wouldn't mind reaching 170 fpe.
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Depinger Mk2. The disc itself wasn't staying in place and eventually slid to the end of the tube after 30 or so shots. This should keep it in place.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/depinger-2_zpsa47f5bca.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/depinger-2_zpsa47f5bca.jpg.html)
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can you post a picture or 2 of your Blizzard ? I didn't even know there was a Blizzard II or that they had the .357 model either
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can you post a picture or 2 of your Blizzard ? I didn't even know there was a Blizzard II or that they had the .357 model either
Don't know if this is the same one rkr's got, but here's the new Blizzard with .357 option...
http://www.evanix.com/blizzard.html (http://www.evanix.com/blizzard.html)
Interesting specs. Check out barrel length (if that's accurate). It's for sale on a couple of websites I've seen.
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can you post a picture or 2 of your Blizzard ? I didn't even know there was a Blizzard II or that they had the .357 model either
Don't know if this is the same one rkr's got, but here's the new Blizzard with .357 option...
http://www.evanix.com/blizzard.html (http://www.evanix.com/blizzard.html)
Interesting specs. Check out barrel length (if that's accurate). It's for sale on a couple of websites I've seen.
That's the one. Barrel length is 55cm = 21.7" and then some 2" of empty shroud after the barrel. I'll take some photos when I put the gun back together, now that it still looks like a traditional gun ;)
Come to think of it, is there actually any difference in between the Blizzard and the Rainstorm? They seem to have the same action, shroud, stock - some changes in the stock checkering perhaps? Same gun with different names for different markets?
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Barrel length is 55cm = 21.7" and then some 2" of empty shroud after the barrel. I'll take some photos when I put the gun back together, now that it still looks like a traditional gun ;)
Come to think of it, is there actually any difference in between the Blizzard and the Rainstorm? They seem to have the same action, shroud, stock - some changes in the stock checkering perhaps? Same gun with different names for different markets?
I think that the Rainstorm .357 have pretty much the same specs as the Blizzard .357 - exact same barrel length etc. The shot strings are similar as well, which leads me to believe that the valves and ports are exactly the same (but I could be wrong on that since I have not compared).
In the .22 caliber, the .22 Blizzard has the longer 21.7" barrel, while the .22 Rainstorm II has the 19" barrel.
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My Blizzard has a longer air tube and a much beefier reciver
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The PEEK rod arrived today so I turned a new seal for my original valve and put the mechanism together. After putting in pressure the valve was hissing a bit so I took some empty shots to slam the valve a bit and it quieted down. I'll leave the gun for a pressure test until tomorrow. If the valve holds it's time for new o-rings and some testing. I still think I'll get/make/have made a spare valve without the o-ring groove in the stem.
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The PEEK rod arrived today so I turned a new seal for my original valve and put the mechanism together. After putting in pressure the valve was hissing a bit so I took some empty shots to slam the valve a bit and it quieted down. I'll leave the gun for a pressure test until tomorrow. If the valve holds it's time for new o-rings and some testing. I still think I'll get/make/have made a spare valve without the o-ring groove in the stem.
Keeping my eye on this, might have to go the same route, looking forward to hearing how it works out.
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First test with the PEEK then.
This is a comparison string, shot with stock seal that's turned upside down. The lip of the seal forms a sharp edge at roughly 1mm above the cup of the valve:
200 bar, 6,1 gr bullets +4 turns
794 - 132 fpe
810
804
812
830 - 160 bar - 144 fpe
826
821
811
778
765 - 130 bar - 122 fpe
Then PEEK seal. The seal is 1mm longer than stock and it comes 2mm out of the cup and also has that sharp lip.
200 bar, 6.1g, 0 turn
651 fps
664
671
674
685
The power is very low at 100 fpe and there's clearly too little spring force in play. I'm low on bullets so I'll increase the tension:
200 bar, 6,1g, +4 turns
716 fps
732
742
751
765
Still too little spring and the power is at 122 fpe. I'll turn the spring tension to max:
200 bar, 6.1g, 6 turns (sear won't lock at 7 turns)
745
758
783
795
812 - 138 fpe
---- 160 bar
812
768
738
---- 150 bar (only 10 bar for 3 shots? perhaps the previous was 170 bar after all) and I'm out of bullets.
Now the interesting thing is that I can't get enough hammer power to the valve now. The valve is 1mm longer with thicker seal so it has more mass and some more spring tension behind it. Could that be the whole reason for my low power or does it have more to do with the PEEK material? How much would I gain by smoothing out the seal edges and perhaps shortening it to stock length? I guess these question must be answered.
Right now I'll continue the pressure test to see if the additional pounding of the valve helped sealing it.
Oh, worth noting is that I was still using those badly worn o-rings in the valve housing. That may be part of the problem, new o-rings for the next round is the seal holds. If it won't then I think I'll be trying some ertalyte as my next seal material.
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Some photos as requested before I tear the gun down. I was hoping for some sunshine but this time you'll have to do with these photos taken in a blizzard :P
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/Eva-1_zps72f30543.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/Eva-1_zps72f30543.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/Eva-2_zps12ed91b9.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/Eva-2_zps12ed91b9.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/Eva-3_zps76a457af.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/Eva-3_zps76a457af.jpg.html)
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I made a new PEEK seal and the gun is doing it's deeds again.
A 7 shot string from 200 bar fill with 88 grain bullets:
--200 bar
864 fps
868 fps (147 fpe)
861 fps
861 fps
864 fps
--155 bar
853 fps
835 fps
--140 bar
Heavier bullets would have given more FPE but I don't have any at my disposal. I'll have to see if the gun will hold air now and if it does I have some additional mods planned I could try.
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;D Very nice now , now we just need to survive until 50+ degree weather so all this white stuff goes away and we can all get back into full swing
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Looks like you're back on track. So... the net change was that you replaced the original valve stem with a PEEK rod, and made a new seal for the original valve?
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Looks like you're back on track. So... the net change was that you replaced the original valve stem with a PEEK rod, and made a new seal for the original valve?
I also opened up the shaft tunnel to 8mm diameter. It seems that I'm now facing another bottleneck that limits the power to 150 fpe. I have a strong guess what it is so we'll see if I can fix it. As you can see the string for the first five shots is rather flat and the power drops off quickly after that. Based on that, can you give me an educated guess where the limitation is?
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Good question, I am not sure. I compare it to an earlier string you had (below) with a longer bell curve - but that was at 79 grain pellets at 133 FPE peak, and not 147 FPE with 88 grain as was your latest. As an engineer I would begin with an apples-to-apples attempt, and maybe try a string with the 79 grain pellets again to see a side-by-side comparison with what you got before the PEEK rod.
200 bar with JSBs
822 fps (first shot after tune, I guess it's OK to be low)
860 fps
870 fps
865 fps
862 fps
866 fps
866 fps
840 fps
827 fps
816 fps
130 bar
EDIT: On the face of it, It does look like an air-usage/efficiency opportunity. Once you've got an apples-to-apples comparison, it might be easier to plan where to go next - but one thing that might have an effect is hammer spring tension (or pre-load). Check out this thread, particularly what rsterne had to say about shot strings, spring-tension effect and efficiency/air usage.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61382.msg588530;topicseen#new (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61382.msg588530;topicseen#new)
... That's just one idea. Lot of pellet usage for all this testing, that's for sure. Shoot me a PM if I can contribute to the experimentation by sending you some pellets or whatever.
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No, it's not as simple as hammer spring tension. What I suspect is this http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59414.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59414.0)
The valve housing is quite small and is in practice a chamber pot. The inlet hole is only 7.5mm so ...
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As usual I was right ::) I opened up the valve inlet to 9mm and took off the valve spring, no other changes. This is the result:
200 bar, 88 grain bullets
904 fps - 160 fpe
904 fps
897 fps
880 fps
861 fps - 150 bar
836 fps
817 fps
804 fps - 125 bar
So, now I have a bit too much spring in it and the flow limit is most likely in the transfer port (as it should). Opening up the TP to 7mm might net me another 10-20 fpe but I don't know if I really need that. I think I'll be studying the hammer bounce next and see if I can eliminate that. What's interesting in this shot string is that it doesn't drop as fast as it used to, so improving the flow in to valve housing has given me more potential at lower psi. If I turn down the hammerspring I should be getting nice and long strings with JSBs for long range target shooting.
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Eliminating the hammer bounce:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/Stiff-spring_zps545c2d0a.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/Stiff-spring_zps545c2d0a.jpg.html)
Second soundtrack is muzzle burst with stock spring and 6 turns in, you see 6 valve openings.
Fourth track is muzzle burst with stiffer spring that doesn't push the hammer agianst the valve, you see two valve openings.
The downsize is that power dropped 25 fpe. Back to the drawing board.
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Just thought I'd be the first to say: looks like you were right.
It seems that the closer you get to a consistent unrestricted bore throughout the airflow (valve, transfer ports, etc) matching the 9mm diameter of the bullet, the better. Which makes a lot of sense.
I am still wondering (for an apples-to-apples comparison) what a 10-shot string with the JSB 79 grain pellet would look like at these tune settings that gave you that last impressive string (the one peaking at 160 FPE with the 88 grain bulllet). Maybe with the spring pre-load backed off a little, for that bell curve again.
It should be possible to calculate this - but do you think the bullet is out of the barrel before those second and third hammer strikes that are showing on your soundtracks?
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Eliminating the hammer bounce:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/Stiff-spring_zps545c2d0a.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/Stiff-spring_zps545c2d0a.jpg.html)
Second soundtrack is muzzle burst with stock spring and 6 turns in, you see 6 valve openings.
Fourth track is muzzle burst with stiffer spring that doesn't push the hammer agianst the valve, you see two valve openings.
The downsize is that power dropped 25 fpe. Back to the drawing board.
Where in the shot string is the worst bounce occurring? In my stock RS2 22 cal stat to get audible bounce at shot #18 which occurs ~2000 psi. My gun will sound like a trumpet and produce wild deviations if I shoot 14gn ammo with the factory tune. I know there is no reason to shoot light and loose ammo with a factory tune but I think the bullet weight and back pressure play a large roll in regards to bounce in these guns. I just don't understand the why.
Tom
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It should be possible to calculate this - but do you think the bullet is out of the barrel before those second and third hammer strikes that are showing on your soundtracks?
... Answer to my own question: unless you have a 12 foot barrel, the answer is yes.
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Eliminating the hammer bounce:
Second soundtrack is muzzle burst with stock spring and 6 turns in, you see 6 valve openings.
Fourth track is muzzle burst with stiffer spring that doesn't push the hammer agianst the valve, you see two valve openings.
The downsize is that power dropped 25 fpe. Back to the drawing board.
Where in the shot string is the worst bounce occurring? In my stock RS2 22 cal stat to get audible bounce at shot #18 which occurs ~2000 psi. My gun will sound like a trumpet and produce wild deviations if I shoot 14gn ammo with the factory tune. I know there is no reason to shoot light and loose ammo with a factory tune but I think the bullet weight and back pressure play a large roll in regards to bounce in these guns. I just don't understand the why.
Tom
The worst bounce occurs in low pressure as there's not enough backpressure in the valve to prevent it from opening. Heavier bullet may slow down the valve closing (as the valve starts closing while the bullet is still in the barrel) causing less strike to the hammer and less bounce.
Let's take a look at this soundtrack with a gun that makes a bit less noise and actually shows the action soundtrack (the lower tracks with bounce that is):
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/comparison_zpsa5d8d52f.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/comparison_zpsa5d8d52f.jpg.html)
1ms the trigger is pulled and hammer released
6ms the hammer hits the firing valve causing air burst
7ms air and or pellet is moving in the barrel
9ms air is bursting out of barrel, pellet has left
10ms valve has bounced back and hits the hammer
17-18ms hammer hits the valve for a second time and the cycle is repeated
28ms third hammer strike that's not strong enough to open the valve
So, as we can see there's only 1ms difference in pellet leaving the barrel and valve hitting the hammer. With heavier bullets it is entirely possible that the pellet in the barrel indeed slows down the hammer closing enough to reduce the bounce.
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The PEEK seal leaks without the additional pressure of the valve spring so I will put the spring back in. To prevent it from blocking the flow I made this valve spring holder piece:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/valve-spring-holder_zps699ae7fb.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/valve-spring-holder_zps699ae7fb.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/valve-spring-holder-2_zpscc0e2119.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/valve-spring-holder-2_zpscc0e2119.jpg.html)
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;D I'm not an engineer but for better air flow shouldn't the leading and trailing edges be rounded or tapered where they are in the air stream for less turbulence of the flow ?
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;D I'm not an engineer but for better air flow shouldn't the leading and trailing edges be rounded or tapered where they are in the air stream for less turbulence of the flow ?
Indeed they should be and we should actually use NACA 0015 airfoil design as our guideline :) Seriously though, I'm more worried about making that piece tough enough to withstand the pounding of the valve, if it disturbs the flow I'll just drill the hole to a bigger size to fix things.
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That looks really good rkr have you thought about filing some grooves in it to keep the spring centered?
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That looks really good rkr have you thought about filing some grooves in it to keep the spring centered?
In case you didn't notice the higher middle part in those copper strips goes inside the spring and centers it while the spring end sits against those lower ends.
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Didn't see this thread until now. Glad that the PEEK arrived and you're making progress. :D
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Ah, ok I see it now, scale threw me off.
Wonder if it would be worth the trouble of going to a smaller dia. Spring and get it farther out of the air flow?
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Didn't see this thread until now. Glad that the PEEK arrived and you're making progress. :D
It did Sean and it really saved the day. It is pretty tough material so it's not the best as far as sealing goes. We'll see if it will be the final seal material, I may try PET-T as well.
The valve bounce is pretty wild so I think I'll be playing with springs as well to see if I can tame it down. Right now it looks like 180 fpe could be reachable if I drill out the transfer port a bit. We'll see where this all leads to.
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It is pretty tough material so it's not the best as far as sealing goes.
I really do think PEEK is the best material to use if it can be implemented properly. Its hardness requires that the two sealing surfaces be smooth and completely parallel with each other. I'm not so sure you can get a perfectly parallel face and matching stem hole without using a lathe, but maybe I underestimate your abilities ;). It also helps to have the valve sealing surface as thin as possible.
As an example of successful implementation, I have a PEEK valve stem in a Crosman 600 that seals perfectly under only CO2 pressure. The valve face has been chamfered and the sealing lip is only about 0.5mm wide.
Again, sorry for not asking before I sent the rod, I would have made some seals on the lathe for you. :-\
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The PEEK did seal on my first assembly with valve spring but when I took the spring out it started leaking. Today I was supposed to lap the seal against the seat but somehow I ended up drilling the transfer port to 7mm size ???
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Well, then - I think the problem was that the seal was a bit too thin and the seat was touching the metallic rim around the seal as it compressed. So, I made a new thicker seal and put the gun back together for some testing:
200 bar, 5.7 gram bullets:
930 fps - 169 fpe
929 fps
911 fps
889 fps
875 fps
--- 150 bar
This is starting to look rather good, to get to 170 fpe level with these light bullets is not bad at all. I think I need to try some heavier bullets next.
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Heavy bullet test:
200 bar, 134 grain bullets
785 fps - 183 fpe
783
770
758
702
--- 150 bar
Nice power but I was really looking for a flat string of 5 shots, shot number five really ruins it. Maybe I should fill to 210 bar...
I think I'm done with power mods now. I may fix another valve for the gun since I doubt the stock one will last forever but that should be it. Next it's time to flatten that shot string and find another tune level for light pellets/JSBs/round balls.
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Tune for lighter pellets could take some time, this is 200 bar string using .360 roundballs with the spring preload all backed out (factory settings):
946 fps
953 fps
953 fps 135fpe
938 fps
928 fps
Goes to show mow much the airflow has increased. I need to start looking for weaker and/or shorter springs now, way too much dwell for this purpose. I was hoping to get around 860-880 fps.
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The 180 FPE tune is v. nice. So the Rainstorm/Blizzard officially joins the ranks of that power level.
It would make a really versatile gun to be able to bring it up to 180 FPE and shoot 134 grains for fewer shots, or lighten the spring and shoot roundball or JSBs for 130 FPE with longer shot strings.
As you know, the springs are super easy to swap. I've had some good results swapping springs out of my .22 Rainstorm for very quick and dramatic power/shot string changes (in about 5 minutes). NomadicPirate did this too, and there's a thread you may have already seen on Rainstorm spring replacements...
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58511.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58511.0)
Here's also a good link to predict the force of different springs, in case you're shopping:
http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/springs/spring_calculators.cfm (http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/springs/spring_calculators.cfm)
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One of the local chaps made me a nice new valve from PET-P material. Here's a shotstring I got:
---200 bar, hammer spring at stock settings, .360 roundballs
925 fps
946 fps
954 fps
958 fps
954 fps
---155 bar
930 fps
917 fps
---140 bar - one magazine
889 fps
871 fps
844 fps
---110 bar
So it seems that there's no practical difference in these two seal material. The PEEK string in previous post looks like it would start at lower fill pressure, (which indeed might have been the case - human error) other than that the results are pretty much identical. The string itself gives some hope, if I lower the speed to 860-880 fps range and get rid of the hammer bounce I might well get 15 useful shots / fill ór two full magazines which would be great. To be continued.
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Just keep an eye on compression set of PET over time. My guess is that there will quite a bit more than with the PEEK.
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I've been working with low power tune lately and finally got some results, not perfect but getting there.
First let's take a typical shotstring from wwonka's post:
78 gr:
1. 820
2. 822
3. 807
4. 802
5. 804
6. 786
7. 771
- Peak FPE above is 116 FPE.
As we can see that's 7 decent shots.
Then let's have a look at my previous long shot string after some basic tuning:
200 bar with JSBs
822 fps (first shot after tune, I guess it's OK to be low)
860 fps
870 fps
865 fps
862 fps
866 fps
866 fps
840 fps
827 fps
816 fps
130 bar
10 good shots topping at 129 fpe.
Finally the shot string from today, two magazines worth JSBs from 200 bar fill:
--- 200 bar
860 fps
862 fps
864 fps
881 fps
889 fps
---165 bar
894 fps
904 fps - 140 fpe
899 fps
888 fps
876 fps
---140bar
858 fps
850 fps
831 fps
808 fps
---115 bar
So, I get 12 rather good shots now and by some fine tuning of the valve springs I believe I can strecth it out to 14 which is my goal. The power goal was 120 fpe so I'm still well over that which gives me room for experimentation. This also shows how much the air efficiency of the gun has improved from the stock gun by just doing some rather trivial changes. I also managed to reduce the hammer bounce to one extra valve opening, not perfect but it shows in that shot string.
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That's an impressive string
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V. impressive improvement in overall performance. Nice shift upwards in power and at the same time stretching out of string.
Did you make any changes in tuning between this string and the .360 roundball string above? The spring was backed all the way out for that string - so did you swap the hammer spring? or tweak the valve spring between the two strings?
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I changed the stock hammer spring to a short and somewhat stiff two spring setup. It doesn't preload the hammer at all, rather there's a 2mm or so gap where the hammer moves freely towards the valve. With this system the roundballs were flying at 915 fps. I believe the 9mm inlet in the valve housing is again restricting the airflow, I guess I need to drill it to 10mm size next.
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Another low power string with depinger and some more tuning changes:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/Low-power-string_zpsc562a75c.jpg)
14 shots starting at 116 fpe, going to 136 fpe and back to 116 fpe. For 7 shots I could fill to 180 bar and get 12 fps variation.
The curve still is a bit peaky and I can't really figure out why, any tuners there to spot what's wrong?
The new version of the depinger is great, makes the gun much nicer to shoot when there's just thump instead of that long twang.
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The curve still is a bit peaky and I can't really figure out why, any tuners there to spot what's wrong?
Once you open up the ports in a PCP, you will often see greater peakiness in the power curve - this appears to be one of the common tradeoff side-effects.
I've seen some people go back and reduce the port opening for low power configuration, and increase it back for high power - using types of valves that allow that type of opening and closing.
But I think the curve you have here (with 116 FPE up to 136 FPE going back down to 116 FPE) in two full magazines is a pretty extraordinary improvement over the stock shot strings of this gun, and pretty far from where you started ;)
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If I leave the pressure values out you can see it more clearly. It's almost like two pieces of power curves meeting each other at the top. Perhaps it has to do with me running without the valve spring?
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Updates since there was some interest about these items. First the depinger Mk2:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/depinger-mk2_zps0ba86aa8.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/depinger-mk2_zps0ba86aa8.jpg.html)
The threaded rod is bent a bit so it sits in the air tube centerline. The disc rotates freely around the rod and nuts are locktited in place - this means that you can screw on the tube without twisting the rod. 6mm holes in the disc. It works very well making the gun much nicer to shoot.
Then the double hammer spring:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/double-hammer-spring_zps14a8c781.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/double-hammer-spring_zps14a8c781.jpg.html)
The inner spring is 12mm in diameter, 60mm long and made from 1.5mm wire. With the adjuster all backed out there's a 2mm gap in between the hammer and the spring. The outer spring is 15mm in diameter and made of 1.5mm wire. What I did was to take the hammer out, insert the 12mm spring, then 15mm spring around it and cut the 15mm spring to the same length as 12mm one. This is the combo that I used for that 14 shot 116-136-116 fpe shot string. This combo with some 1.5mm free space also cuts down the number of valve openings to two from the previous of five.
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I've seen some people go back and reduce the port opening for low power configuration, and increase it back for high power - using types of valves that allow that type of opening and closing.
Reducing transfer port size tends to move the right side of the power curve towards left (high pressure area). While it will reduce the power it will also reduce airflow in the low pressure area where we really need it. My purpose was to increase the low pressure flow and it seems I managed to do it. The side effect is of course increased power potential on high pressure side as well, which allows two different tune levels for different purposes.
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Then some goals for Evanix tuners, a local chap just reported reaching 265 fpe with his 9mm :o However, the loading linkage lever started bending by the probe pressure and the cocking lever bacame loose so I think that's just a bit too much for the Evanix action. He has since backed down to 240 fpe level to avoid blowing up the whole breech block ;D
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He has since backed down to 240 fpe
That's around the tuning-limit of the Fire 201/202/Recluse Shin Sung/Sam Yang 9mms too.
Good thing he backed it down, so he doesn't hit the space telescope with that thing.
I wonder what bullet he's shooting at 240 FPE. It must be doing some serious speed.
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He has since backed down to 240 fpe
That's around the tuning-limit of the Fire 201/202/Recluse Shin Sung/Sam Yang 9mms too.
Good thing he backed it down, so he doesn't hit the space telescope with that thing.
I wonder what bullet he's shooting at 240 FPE. It must be doing some serious speed.
135 grain bullets at well over 900 fps. 95 grainers are shooting supersonic :)
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nice work on the spring, got a couple of uncut springs heading my way, didn't think at the time to get some that would fit inside the other - oh well next order ;D
have 4 different wire gauges coming - should allow me to play a lot.
-just found some beastly springs (2mm wire) from a previous air gun project that might make a nice inner short section for the initial OOMMHHPPPP ;D
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Next step of the gun build was making it backyard friendly:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/Evanix-silencer_zpsbaa8c14e.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/Evanix-silencer_zpsbaa8c14e.jpg.html)
The gun makes rougly the same noice as my 30 fpe Dynamax did with Weichrauch LDC, no need for ear protection anymore when shooting in my garage. The only downside is that the the gun is a bit too long now, nothing a bullpupping project couldn't solve though ;)
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Looks good rkr, and yeah they can start to feel a little ungainly with the can hanging out there
;)
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In preparation for next weekends long range shooting I tightened the double hammer spring set up to the max and to my surprise it produced this curve with 88 grain bullets:
200 bar
799 fps
800 fps
819 fps
832 fps
845 fps
848 fps
855 fps
852 fps
842 fps
831 fps
130 bar
That's 5 shots within 13 fps topping at 143 fpe. To boot it off it only requires 170 bar fill pressure. I was looking for 880-900 fps which I didn't achieve but the velocity spread and air efficiency is really spot on with low fill pressure as added bonus.
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Another one:
200 bar, 88 grain bullets, 2 shims for inner spring, one coil off the outer spring
880fps
885fps
889fps
886fps
875fps
150 bar
That's 14 fps spread and estimated 1/2" vertical POI shift at 100M at 154 fpe. I think that's good enough for some longer range testing.
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Another one:
200 bar, 88 grain bullets, 2 shims for inner spring, one coil off the outer spring
880fps
885fps
889fps
886fps
875fps
150 bar
That's 14 fps spread and estimated 1/2" vertical POI shift at 100M at 154 fpe. I think that's good enough for some longer range testing.
Not an expert "yet " but that looks amazing and most of what you have achieved is do able with patience and some tools
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Another one:
200 bar, 88 grain bullets, 2 shims for inner spring, one coil off the outer spring
880fps
885fps
889fps
886fps
875fps
150 bar
That's 14 fps spread and estimated 1/2" vertical POI shift at 100M at 154 fpe. I think that's good enough for some longer range testing.
You have to be happy those strings!
Are you using chairgun and if so what is the BC for the 88gn bullet? The reason I ask, Chargun shows my 30 cal will a 1.6" drop from 870-830 fps with a 70gn and a BC of .16 at 100 yards. Actual shooting indicates ~.8". Chair gun seems to be off by a factor of 2.
Tom
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Another one:
200 bar, 88 grain bullets, 2 shims for inner spring, one coil off the outer spring
880fps
885fps
889fps
886fps
875fps
150 bar
That's 14 fps spread and estimated 1/2" vertical POI shift at 100M at 154 fpe. I think that's good enough for some longer range testing.
You have to be happy those strings!
Are you using chairgun and if so what is the BC for the 88gn bullet? The reason I ask, Chargun shows my 30 cal will a 1.6" drop from 870-830 fps with a 70gn and a BC of .16 at 100 yards. Actual shooting indicates ~.8". Chair gun seems to be off by a factor of 2.
Tom
Yes, I'm rather happy. I just hope there's enough oomph with heavy 134 grain pellets, I ran out of air so I couldn't test those. Hopefully I'll be around 165 fpe with them. The purpose is to have a spring combo that pushes JSBs around 880 fpe for 14 shots with preload backed out and then get 5 good shots with heavy bullets when I up the spring tension. I use chairgun for estimation and IIRC the BC was .16 as well - we'll see what the real world results are like.
Edit, the BC I use is actually 0.116 as the FT bullet has flat bottom. I use 0.16 for boattail type bullets.
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Next problem with my gun was bent sidelever, at this power the probe kicks back enough to cause this over few hundred shots:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/bent-sidelever_zps40594df8.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/bent-sidelever_zps40594df8.jpg.html)
Once the lever bends enough it starts opening up when firing. I hammered it back straight but after some 300 shots it was starting to bend again. The solution was a DIY agricultural side lever. It actually makes the gun feel much more controlled, I guess the original was bending and flexing enough to cause kind of a flimsy feel when you shoot.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/lever1_zps22b8c830.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/lever1_zps22b8c830.jpg.html)
Notice the much beefier than original linkage support:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/lever2_zps50c3855f.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/lever2_zps50c3855f.jpg.html)
It looks kind of cool and agricultural as it is but needs polishing and some surface treatment. Any good suggestion how to finish it?
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Nice job on the lever :)
One thing to be careful of are the contact surfaces ahead of the linkage and the receive side. Due to the over center design, when the bolt is loaded during the shot cycle, a large closing force is applied to the the lever. If the mating surfaces do not mate perfectly or have a large enough contact area, the aluminum will start to displace. I'm sure you've seen the shiny indentation already.
I had to file my stock lever to close flat to fix. In my case it was more of an annoyance, there was no permanent damage but at your power levels it's something to be aware of.
Flame blue or color case harden would be cool.
Tom
Tom
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I was going to say hit with some cerecoat, but Tom's idea of color case hardening would look really sweet. 8)
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That one, is not going to bend, lol
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That one, is not going to bend, lol
Quite right, it close like a vault door - not as heavy but as precise.
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The USS Ohio called. They want their main hatch handle back.
Seriously though - would you make more to sell?
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The USS Ohio called. They want their main hatch handle back.
Seriously though - would you make more to sell?
Took me about 3-4 hours to make this one with hand tools and it's not even finished yet. I think I'll be throwing some meat on hot coals over the weekend and then use that BBQ for some heat treating experiments of some left over steel pieces from the project. If they turn out as planned I can solve the hardening and surface treatment in one go.
Edit, I think one of the reasons why the lever feels so good is that I filed it to fit (thus the time it took to make it). The linkage connector slot in the breech is 9mm and I made those connector lips 8.8mm thick, in practise they guide the lever to the slot very snugly. The stock one is 8.0mm so there's bound to be some up and down movement with those Korean tolerances.
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What material is it? The heat treatment will vary for different steels. ;) It's possible you could reduce the aft section by half and still be Battleship strong.
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What material is it? The heat treatment will vary for different steels. ;) It's possible you could reduce the aft section by half and still be Battleship strong.
It's something from metal recyclers scrap steel bin :) Thus the need to experiment with heat treatment. I think it would last without treatment but it's nice to experiment with things. I followed the old east german production principle when making the lever, the more metal I use the more I get paid :)
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I personally like old car springs, they are easy to work with and take a good heat treatment. ;D
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Here's the result of my heat treatment efforts:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/lever-3_zpsa0e33de1.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/lever-3_zpsa0e33de1.jpg.html)
I buried the lever in hot coals after BBQing some steaks and left it there for 20 minutes. After that I dropped it in used engine oil. I don't know if any case hardening happened but the color matches the gun which is enough for me.
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Sweet!
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Then a friendly word of warning for wannabe tuners, it's not advisable to go much higher than 180 fpe. If you recall I mentioned a local chap getting 220+fpe from his Blizzard. It seems that the linkage parts start bending at that level and worst of all the aluminium breech block is deforming at around the lever connector bolt. Personally I haven't noticed any other problems than the bent lever and I've put few hundred bullets through the gun in 165-180 fpe power range.
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Then a friendly word of warning for wannabe tuners, it's not advisable to go much higher than 180 fpe. If you recall I mentioned a local chap getting 220+fpe from his Blizzard. It seems that the linkage parts start bending at that level and worst of all the aluminium breech block is deforming at around the lever connector bolt. Personally I haven't noticed any other problems than the bent lever and I've put few hundred bullets through the gun in 165-180 fpe power range.
Does some of that depend on how/what he did to squeeze 220 FPE out of the Blizzard? Perhaps part of his tuning approach involves a very heavy spring which is causing havoc with that lever and linkage? If so, that might be the thing to steer away from.
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Then a friendly word of warning for wannabe tuners, it's not advisable to go much higher than 180 fpe. If you recall I mentioned a local chap getting 220+fpe from his Blizzard. It seems that the linkage parts start bending at that level and worst of all the aluminium breech block is deforming at around the lever connector bolt. Personally I haven't noticed any other problems than the bent lever and I've put few hundred bullets through the gun in 165-180 fpe power range.
Does some of that depend on how/what he did to squeeze 220 FPE out of the Blizzard? Perhaps part of his tuning approach involves a very heavy spring which is causing havoc with that lever and linkage? If so, that might be the thing to steer away from.
I just checked and he was above 260 fpe the last I heard. I don't think you can stuff in heavy enough spring to start bending linkage parts - there just isn't enough room in there. It is the force of pressurized air behind the bullet trying to move the probe back. Quite logical really: at 150-160 fpe level we start to see bent sidelevers. Above 200 fpe the lever bolt and linkage parts start to bend. In the mid 250s fpe the breech starts to give up if the lever and linkage have been beefed up.
Personally I'm back at 150 fpe level to see if it works for silhuettes, shooting JSBs at 910 fps and 88 grainers at 880 fps. There's still the option of 103 grain wadcutters if I need more oomph, they fit in the magazine but they fly at only high 700 fps with this tune.
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In preparation to next weekends silhoutte competition I did some longer range groups. What do you say, should I be happy with these or get a new barrel? They are OK for silhouette shooting but not for benchrest. They also show how poor shooter I am :(
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/50m-group_zpsbebdef4d.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/50m-group_zpsbebdef4d.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/75m-group_zpsda61ea20.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/75m-group_zpsda61ea20.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/100m-group_zps2d686c3d.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/100m-group_zps2d686c3d.jpg.html)
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Another one:
200 bar, 88 grain bullets, 2 shims for inner spring, one coil off the outer spring
880fps
885fps
889fps
886fps
875fps
150 bar
That's 14 fps spread and estimated 1/2" vertical POI shift at 100M at 154 fpe. I think that's good enough for some longer range testing.
This tune wasn't quite enough for silhuette shooting. Rams at 100M were knocked down when I hit high but low hits didn't do it. I guess I need to find a bit more powerful tune for these bullets.
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The tuning project moves to stage 2. I have now achieved enough quiet power to knock down those black powder pistol ram silhouettes at 100M while making the gun survive the power level. It's time to look at ergonomics. The gun is horribly nose heavy with the big can at the barrel end so I need to fix that. This is the progress so far:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/pup1_zps173d0a81.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/pup1_zps173d0a81.jpg.html)
I chose the traditional bullpup rail approach as I've never built one. It is very rigid so as far as the air tube points to the right direction things should work well. I have two weeks before our next competition, we'll see if I can finish the build by then.
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Woodworking next:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/pup2_zpsd1cfcd23.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/pup2_zpsd1cfcd23.jpg.html)
The trigger is on the edge of being too light, I may have to swap in the original sear spring.
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Are you doing all that with hand tools? Wow : 8)
Could you post a close up of the trigger block? I'd like to see what you did there
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Are you doing all that with hand tools? Wow : 8)
Could you post a close up of the trigger block? I'd like to see what you did there
Bench drill, hacksaw, file and lots of patience :)
I don't know weather you meant the original trigger block or the new one so here are close ups of both. The linkage point on the rear can be adjusted up and down and the front is basically as simple as it gets. The block in front of the trigger stops it so the linkage is kept under suspension by the sear spring, takes the slack away from the linkage.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/pup-4_zpsc07b8d83.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/pup-4_zpsc07b8d83.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/pup-3_zps798e198c.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/pup-3_zps798e198c.jpg.html)
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Thanks for the Pictures, that is very impressive work, especially considering the tools :D
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Some more progress:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/pup-5_zps6622f894.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/pup-5_zps6622f894.jpg.html)
What do you think should I lower the rail a bit? It's about 5mm higher than it needs to be.
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are you going to make a cheek pad that goes over the magazine? height might be about right for that.
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Looking good. The scope does look a bit high but I'm no expert on BPs. I found side view pictures of the Edgun and Cricket from their respective sites then scaled up some of the dimensions for reference.
Here's an example of one I scanned in to CAD - The top of the Picatinny rail is 1.25" (32mm) above the barrel center line.
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o553/QVTOM/RainStorm/bb-cricket2_zps5ba216d2.jpg~original) (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/QVTOM/media/RainStorm/bb-cricket2_zps5ba216d2.jpg.html)
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The original plan was to make a cheek pad that's on the level of magazine and use low scope mounts - thus the high rail. The gun feels rather comfortable without the pad so I think I'll drop the rail a bit. Bullpups usually have medium to high scope mounts so they can have the rail low.
I also found a problem when test firing the gun. The full 180 fpe tune makes so much pressure for the hammer that the M3 rod that I used starts bending sideways when I pull the trigger causing poor trigger feel >:(
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Then a bit of information for those tuning their Evanixes. After bullpupping I was checking the tune and just couldn't get the power to the previous level. I eventually noticed that the air cylinder and valve housing had rotated a bit leaving ever so slight lip when observed through the transfer port. I aligned the valve housing to the TP and immediately gained 20 fps. So, it pays to check that barrel and valve housing are aligned to the TP.
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I finalized the bullpupping, at least for now:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/pup-final-4_zpsbb73e36b.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/pup-final-4_zpsbb73e36b.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/pup-final-2_zps07b31a0d.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/pup-final-2_zps07b31a0d.jpg.html)
The stock is rubber coated and has a very nice feel to it. I dropped the rail some 5mm down and it works great. The problem with flexing trigger linkage was solved by adding guides to it. I may try M4 rod later but this works rather well giving similar trigger feel as the original while being a bit lighter.
The pup also works rather well in practice, my silhouette score jumped from 8 to 13 on pups first outing with still flexing trigger linkage that made me miss at least two targets. The can works also really well, some shooters who had popped for a cigarette had to come back in to see what's going on when they just heard "kling" "kling" "kling" as the targets were falling but no big bangs as usual :)
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looks great very nice work 8) even more impressive knowing what primitive tools you used ;D
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I got tired of the flexing of M3 rod so I made a new linkage that uses M4 rod. The trigger feels much better and requires no guides. Here's a fork model for those struggling with the same problem:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/M4-fork_zpsb18042b0.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/M4-fork_zpsb18042b0.jpg.html)
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I might be attending some 100M paper punching competitions shortly so I decided to redo the trigger. Here are two photos, quite self explanatory really - file off a bit alone the arc and polish the mating surface. The trigger turned out really nice, almost as good as my BSA triggers. 15 minute job and definitely worth it.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/sear-2_zps43122e58.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/sear-2_zps43122e58.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/sear-3_zps96593d95.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/sear-3_zps96593d95.jpg.html)
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I did my first casting excercise to make some BBTs that fit in the magazine. Without thermometer I got many defect ones before I reached the right temperature. I'll test the accuracy later with good ones but I made a shotstring using defect ones:
Starting pressure 200 bar
782 fps
798 fps
805 fps - 158 fpe
804 fps - 160 bar
803 fps
785 fps
793 fps
762 fps
730 fps - 135 bar
All in all a very nice string, some slower shots are most likely caused by casting defects in bullets. This was using my standard silhouette tune which is in the 155-160 fpe range. Now the good thing is that according to Bob's BC figures these bullets should have 135 fpe energy left at 100 yards while the FTs I've been using only had 124 fpe. This also means that I can fill to 180 bar instead of 210 bar I've been using. I hope the accuracy at 100 yards will also be there when I get a change to test it.
Edit, I just had to try a power tune as well to see how much power I can get:
200 bar fill
828 fps
847 fps - 175 fpe
834 fps
819 fpe
800 fpe - 145 bar
With 210 bar fill I can get a decent 5 shot string while delivering 150 fpe at 100 yards. The downside is that the gun is getting loud with increased air usage and there's almost 30 fpe variation in that string. I think I'll live with that rather flat 160 fpe string.
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Some testing with short BBTs, rather disappointing:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/BBT-test_zpsfd99596c.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/BBT-test_zpsfd99596c.jpg.html)
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Disappointing results.... It is possible that with their lower velocity (compared to the lighter JSBs) the barrel is at a different point in its vibration cycle.... If so, it could benefit from a barrel band or a tuning weight.... if such is practical on your gun....
Bob
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Disappointing results.... It is possible that with their lower velocity (compared to the lighter JSBs) the barrel is at a different point in its vibration cycle.... If so, it could benefit from a barrel band or a tuning weight.... if such is practical on your gun....
Bob
The barrel is actually set tight to those rail supports with four set screws in each support. There's also the normal Evanix barrel band in use and a can at the end of the barrel weighing about a pound. That's three bands so those vibrations should be minimal but one never knows. I also tried free floating barrel and one band but the results were even worse. I'm starting to consider one of those TJ liners at this point.
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It could be a mismatch between bullet and liner.... You're pretty much the guinea pig here.... *grin*....
Bob
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It could be a mismatch between bullet and liner.... You're pretty much the guinea pig here.... *grin*....
Bob
I've used to it, this whole project was a guinea pig. Had I settled for a long and loud gun shooting at 130 fpe things would be easier. Still, I see no real reason why BBT wouldn't work as well as light FT bullets I've been using so far. I guess I need to take a deep breath, clean up the barrel and experiment a bit with different barrel band combinations. It's too bad that the shot string gets very peaky if I up the power with BBTs :(
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A quick update. I made a new tight fitting barrel band and I managed a 15mm 4 shot hole with BBTs while JSBs printed 14mm 5 shot hole. It seems these heavier bullets cause bad barrel vibrations that needs to be tamed down. Still not perfect but neither was my shooting, it seems that these BBTs may work after all - at least for silhouette shooting which was the intended purpose.
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The heavier bullet, and/or a tighter barrel fit (more resistance) will cause a higher pressure peak and a different resonance in the barrel, so may benefit from a stiffer barrel and/or harmonic tuning or barrel bands.... Glad you are figuring them out....
Bob
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;D Not sure but from all the reading of geek posts would a CF sleeve epoxied to the barrel as a stiffener aid in taming the barrel harmonics and whipping
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;D Not sure but from all the reading of geek posts would a CF sleeve epoxied to the barrel as a stiffener aid in taming the barrel harmonics and whipping
That would help but the Evanix breech is quite short and flexible so that alone may not solve the problem if the barrel is left semi floating. Qvtom put a sleeved barrel under tension which gave very good results but as it is easier for me to clamp the barrel tight I'm working with that approach. If this approach doesn't provide good enough results I may indeed try a sleeve + clamp to dampen up those vibes.
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After sfttailrdr46's suggestion I went and ordered a CF sleeve for the barrel from ebay, 18mm ID and 22mm OD. I'll post the results when it eventually gets here and I have time to open up those barrel mounts and install it. Anyway, while searching those CF pipes I noticed something that may interest other .357 Evanix owners - a 18mm ID 21mm OD CF pipe would be a perfect fit inside the standard shroud. The shroud is non functional anyway so there's no harm in sleeving and it may improve your accuracy, IMO worth trying if you want to tinker a bit. If you want you can even double sleeve using 18-22mm pipe and 22-25mm pipe on top of that and have a nice CF shroud for your gun.
I also found another factor that may have contributed to the BBT inaccuracy, the gun was actually shooting at 170 fpe - not 155fpe as I thought it was. With stiff spring wound in all the way the shooting cycle was quite harsh with lots of valve bounce which may explain those vibrations.
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I made some more boolits yesterday and I used those poor quality BBTs for some additonal tuning:
200 bar fill, short BBTs, double spring
799 fps
805 fps - 158 fpe
814 fps
824 fps - 166 fpe
812 fps
802 fps - 157 fpe
785 fps
140 bar
So, that's either one magazines worth of good shots or 5 shots within 22 fps. I'd say that's rather decent for a bigbore. As a bonus I'm still knocking those rams at 100M with 140 fpe of power and pigs at 50M get 155 fpe knocks which was my muzzle energy with 88 grain bullets ;D
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The silhuette season is over so it's time to see if more power can be had from the gun. In preparation for that I beefed up the rear of the breech. M4 threaded holes were done by the factory so this implies that the original design of this gun had a supporting bar for the cylinder where the sidelever lever holding screw attaches.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/support-bar_zps3ba396a5.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/support-bar_zps3ba396a5.jpg.html)
I would actually recommend this mod for all 9mm Evanix owners, takes few minutes to make and beefes up the breech end considerably.
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Here's how Evanix handles the side lever bolt issue in their Max ML bullpup:
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/Evanix-Max-ML_AV-00468_zm9.jpg)
Too bad they don't fix it for RS2.
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The silhuette season is over so it's time to see if more power can be had from the gun. In preparation for that I beefed up the rear of the breech. M4 threaded holes were done by the factory so this implies that the original design of this gun had a supporting bar for the cylinder where the sidelever lever holding screw attaches.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/support-bar_zps3ba396a5.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/support-bar_zps3ba396a5.jpg.html)
I would actually recommend this mod for all 9mm Evanix owners, takes few minutes to make and beefes up the breech end considerably.
Good call on the weak point. For those who are not intimate with the Evanix receiver, the pivot bolt for the side lever is only fully captured at the top of the receiver and the bottom is threaded into a slide in plug. The only constraint that prevents the plug from being pushed out of the receiver during the firing cycle is the friction that occurs when the pivot bolt pulls the plug to the top of its mounting recess.
The pivot bolt takes all the push back force of the bolt when under pressure, for 120 fpe stock guns this works fine; increase the power or caliber slightly it becomes a weak link. The Sniper appears to have a stop plate to hold things in alignment, I'm sure they needed to beef it up due to the added bolt face area of the 45 and 50 calibers.
Tom
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Good call on the weak point. For those who are not intimate with the Evanix receiver, the pivot bolt for the side lever is only fully captured at the top of the receiver and the bottom is threaded into a slide in plug. The only constraint that prevents the plug from being pushed out of the receiver during the firing cycle is the friction that occurs when the pivot bolt pulls the plug to the top of its mounting recess.
The pivot bolt takes all the push back force of the bolt when under pressure, for 120 fpe stock guns this works fine; increase the power or caliber slightly it becomes a weak link. The Sniper appears to have a stop plate to hold things in alignment, I'm sure they needed to beef it up due to the added bolt face area of the 45 and 50 calibers.
Tom
Quite many owners turn in the hammer spring adjuster and enter 130-140 fpe zone. Even worse if they use heavy bullets. Eventually the bolt will start bending and over time the receiver end at the bolt hole will start stretching. I would recommend inspecting that area of your receiver. If you scroll down this thread http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/25/968703.html (http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/25/968703.html) you will see photos of what appears to be the original design of the sidelever. Much better than the current version.
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Next round of tuning has started. Bob's boat tails hit 880 fps which translates to 190 fpe. Not bad and and I still have some tricks to try. It's a lot of work but it seems that these Evanix guns can perform almost as well as Recluses once all the shortcomings are taken care of. The good thing is that they have the magazine and much better trigger than Recluse. I'll see if I can hit 200 fpe with 135 grain bullets and produce a decent string of five shots with BBTs. Unfortunately my gun had the transfer port drilled at an angle so it takes some special care to make it perform :(
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I think I pretty much reached what I was trying to achieve. Here's a shotsring with Bob's boattails:
200 bar:
884 fps
899 fps (198 fpe)
881 fps
866 fps
837 fps
140 bar
With heavier bullets 200 fpe can be breached. I need to fill to 210 bar for silhouette and the gun is really an air hog so I will probably tune it down a bit.
What I did to achieve this was to use oval openings in the valve housing and barrel, 8mm long and 7mm wide both. Unfortunately those holes were not oval in the same direction so I had to make the transfer port sort of criss-cross oval. I also had to increase the hammer weight as I was getting a power peak at 150 bar after the mod. The increased hammer weight keeps the valve open for too long which means wasted air. The next task is to tune the hammer weight and spring tension to reduce the air usage while still retaining most of the power.
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Nicely Done!
Tom
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I agree with Tom. Excellent results!
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Thanks guys! I think this gun is now close to being maxed out, maybe another 10-20fpe more to be had with a lot of work. The local chap who has his Evanix running at 240+fpe level is using 28" barrel which makes around 30 fpe extra over my 21" stump. The biggest restriction at this point is the valve housing, I've pretty much used all the available room in between those o-rings. Relocating those o-rings would allow 8mm port to be used but since I don't have a lathe I'll have to skip that. Besides 8mm port would necessitate bigger valve tunnel which would then necessitate new valve seal which could necessitate drilling out the valve stem housing and ... Small improvements really pile up the workload at this stage.
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I've been studying the hammer system on this gun lately and guess what, it's all wrong. The hammer weights 38 grams which is OK weight for a light fast strike hammer in a 60 fpe gun. The hammer can potentially push the valve open 6.7mm while the valve stem comes out only 5.5mm - there's 1.2mm lost hammer strike length there. In addition to that, maximum valve flow in a stock gun happens at 1.875mm lift and the valve can open 5.5mm. That full opening is never going to happen with that hammer weight and stock spring - what the heck were these guys thinking about when they designed this thing. I think I need to do something about that, I can easily increase the hammer strike length by 2-3mm which should bring the power up even further. Frankly I'm surprised that I was able to make 180 fpe with that stock hammer system.
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I'm going to say yes and no to your post. Considering the genesis of the Rainstorm as a small bore platform with factory performance in the 50 to 60 fpe range their hammer design is quite adequate for that purpose. Yes it is a light hammer at 38 grams (I just found out the Marauder is in the 60+ range) but has a considerable stroke at ~1.2" IIRC. When converting my 22 cal. Rainstorm2 to 30 cal I had no problems reaching 120 fpe with the factory hammer and slight spring increase. Above 130 fpe, more or less the factory tune a 9mm RS2, the 38 gram hammer system is probably maxed out unless you use some very heavy springs which will undoubtedly make the cocking force less than pleasant. For factory power levels up to 9mm and maybe the 45 the factory system is fine.
Where you are going is another story, I can easily see where the factory system would inadequate at some point. My suggestion is to make a heavier hammer from tungsten which could easily double mass in the same space as the steel one. Another possibility is to make a new hammer from steel with a male spring guide to add extra mass, remove and replace the existing spring guide from rear adjuster with a hole to allow the hammer guide to pass through.
hammer with spring guide.
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o553/QVTOM/RainStorm/32gmhammer_zps973e8db9.jpg) (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/QVTOM/media/RainStorm/32gmhammer_zps973e8db9.jpg.html)
Tom
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I'm going to say yes and no to your post. Considering the genesis of the Rainstorm as a small bore platform with factory performance in the 50 to 60 fpe range their hammer design is quite adequate for that purpose. Yes it is a light hammer at 38 grams (I just found out the Marauder is in the 60+ range) but has a considerable stroke at ~1.2" IIRC. When converting my 22 cal. Rainstorm2 to 30 cal I had no problems reaching 120 fpe with the factory hammer and slight spring increase. Above 130 fpe, more or less the factory tune a 9mm RS2, the 38 gram hammer system is probably maxed out unless you use some very heavy springs which will undoubtedly make the cocking force less than pleasant. For factory power levels up to 9mm and maybe the 45 the factory system is fine.
Where you are going is another story, I can easily see where the factory system would inadequate at some point. My suggestion is to make a heavier hammer from tungsten which could easily double mass in the same space as the steel one. Another possibility is to make a new hammer from steel with a male spring guide to add extra mass, remove and replace the existing spring guide from rear adjuster with a hole to allow the hammer guide to pass through.
hammer with spring guide.
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o553/QVTOM/RainStorm/32gmhammer_zps973e8db9.jpg) (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/QVTOM/media/RainStorm/32gmhammer_zps973e8db9.jpg.html)
Tom
If I interpret that picture correctly you take off the skirts of the hammer (or most of it) which allows a large diameter stiff spring to be used and also allows a large heavy mass guide inside the spring. That's good thinking and could well be the way to go if I had a lathe. What I did was to make a tophat that fits inside the hammer while cutting off the spring guide from the adjuster. I used copper and lead as construction materials so I got 19 grams of extra mass with that. I actually modified the hammer for 1.2mm extra strike length as my next step to see if that's the right way to proceed. In addition to that I need to measure how much the valve is actually opening. There's 5.5mm movement possible and maximum flow starts around 2mm opening. Still work in progress.
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I've haven't tried to accurately determine actual lift yet. I've read you can put a snug o-ring on the stem and push it all the way to the valve body. After firing it should move the lift distance towards the butt. Seems workable as long as the o-ring doesn't interfere with with the cycle.
Tom
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If you have a spring guide that sticks out the back of the RVA you can do the same trick... works well, actually, very repeatable....
Bob
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Well, I was thinking of taking a tiny ball of playdough and putting that on the surface of valve housing where the hammer knocks. After firing inspect how thick it was left.
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The lift will increase as the pressure decreases.... Typically about twice as great at the low pressure end of the string as where you start.... Often the lift at the fill end is roughly 1/4 of the throat diameter (or less) for a well tuned PCP.... If it's much greater than that, you are likely going to see a decreasing string (first shot fastest)....
Bob
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The lift will increase as the pressure decreases.... Typically about twice as great at the low pressure end of the string as where you start.... Often the lift at the fill end is roughly 1/4 of the throat diameter (or less) for a well tuned PCP.... If it's much greater than that, you are likely going to see a decreasing string (first shot fastest)....
Bob
Good point Bob, my plan was to sacrifice some valve lift for more strike but I guess I should do it a bit differently.
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Lift and Dwell are interrelated.... The way you can change the relationship is with hammer weight.... The spring provides the energy (lift) and the momentum (dwell) but if you change the weight you don't change the energy but you do change the dwell.... If you leave the weight constant and change the spring (rate, preload, or travel) then you change both the lift and dwell, but they stay more or less in the same proportions....
Bob
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Well, I took out most of the tolerances in the system and increased the potential valve lift from 5.5mm to 6.3mm and added 1.5mm to the hammer strike length. No time to test now unfortunately :(
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If you ever get to 6mm lift, I would think you would just be blowing most of the air out the barrel, from my experience.... Just because it is available doesn't mean you can, or should, use it.... The flow maxes out at 1/4 of the throat diameter (so if the throat is 8mm, that is only 2mm lift).... After that, hitting the valve harder only increases the dwell, not the flow rate.... Once the dwell is greater than the time the pellet spends in the barrel, you gain nothing and just waste air....
Bob
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If you ever get to 6mm lift, I would think you would just be blowing most of the air out the barrel, from my experience.... Just because it is available doesn't mean you can, or should, use it.... The flow maxes out at 1/4 of the throat diameter (so if the throat is 8mm, that is only 2mm lift).... After that, hitting the valve harder only increases the dwell, not the flow rate.... Once the dwell is greater than the time the pellet spends in the barrel, you gain nothing and just waste air....
Bob
The gun is already keeping the valve open after the bullet leaves the barrel. However, I want to establish a point of maximum hammer strike/valve opening and then dial back to the level I feel comfortable with. I can easily reduce the valve opening by making a dimple to the hammer face at that point.
As was shown by the shot string I still didn't have enough hammer strike to produce peak power at 200 bar. Since our silhouette rules now allow connecting the gun to the bottle with external regulator, I've been considering that approach. For that set up I would want a shot string without curve and I could then produce the curve by reducing the hammer spring tension.
Besides, one of the local lads made 220 fpe with stock barrel in his Evanix so I want to see if I can reach that with my approach.
BTW, even though the maximum valve lift starts mathematically at 0.25*valve tunnel diameter results in real life tend to suggest that increased lift has it's benefits. Let's take that 220 fpe tune I mentioned as an example. In that tune the valve tunnel was left at 7.5mm diameter and stock valve was used with as much lift as can be had. The transfer port on the other hand was opened up to 8mm diameter. That's 32mm² area in valve tunnel versus 50mm² in the transfer port and the guy still hit 220 fpe! Perhaps that's sonic choking and associated transsonic flow at work?
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The gun is already keeping the valve open after the bullet leaves the barrel.
As was shown by the shot string I still didn't have enough hammer strike to produce peak power at 200 bar.
Those two statements are mutually exclusive, they cannot both be true, at least not at 200 bar (unless it is reopening due to bounce).... In fact, once the valve is open for 50% of the barrel length (at a given pressure), the velocity is within about 3% of maximum velocity (at that pressure), and approaching the plateau.... At that point, any shot string will be first shot fastest (at that pressure) and then declining as the pressure drops....
What you are seeing when the valve opens more than 1/4 the throat diameter is NOT increased flow RATE, but increased dwell because it takes the valve longer to complete the (higher) lift cycle.... Therefore, the flow rate is clipped by the curtain (1/4 throat) limit, but the total flow VOLUME is greater because that (maximum) flow occurs for a longer time.... There are excellent discussions of PCP valve dynamics in the "Geek Gate" (Engineering- R&D) in the Machine Shop Gate....
Bob
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The gun is already keeping the valve open after the bullet leaves the barrel.
As was shown by the shot string I still didn't have enough hammer strike to produce peak power at 200 bar.
Those two statements are mutually exclusive, they cannot both be true, at least not at 200 bar (unless it is reopening due to bounce).... In fact, once the valve is open for 50% of the barrel length (at a given pressure), the velocity is within about 3% of maximum velocity (at that pressure), and approaching the plateau.... At that point, any shot string will be first shot fastest (at that pressure) and then declining as the pressure drops....
What you are seeing when the valve opens more than 1/4 the throat diameter is NOT increased flow RATE, but increased dwell because it takes the valve longer to complete the (higher) lift cycle.... Therefore, the flow rate is clipped by the curtain (1/4 throat) limit, but the total flow VOLUME is greater because that (maximum) flow occurs for a longer time.... There are excellent discussions of PCP valve dynamics in the "Geek Gate" (Engineering- R&D) in the Machine Shop Gate....
Bob
Hmm, didn't think it that way but you are right. So it seems that I don't have enough dwell then. Increased valve lift and increased hammer strike length should help in that. As I said I can easily trade valve lift for strike length (although I can't pull back on that trade as I will remove material from the hammer). With increased strike length I then get broader adjustment range for the hammer spring tension which then will allow me to play with the power curve etc.
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You need to stop thinking of reducing hammer length to increase travel as reducing valve lift.... That would only occur it the hammer was hitting something else besides the stem.... If you shorten the front of the hammer to increase travel, it will hit the stem harder, and open the valve further.... You have a lot of hammer energy, but not a lot of momentum.... That is a result of using a very light hammer.... If you increase the spring or travel, you will increase both.... If you add hammer weight, you will not change the energy (lift) but you will increase the momentum (dwell)....
Heavier bullets spend a longer time in the barrel because they are moving slower.... Therefore, if you don't increase the dwell, the valve closes sooner in terms of barrel length, and the velocity peak will move to a lower pressure.... just as it would with the light bullet and less hammer strike.... Taken to the extreme, this will cause a heavy bullet to actually produce less FPE than a light one.... I have a regulated 2560 that shoot 52 FPE with 25 gr. pellets, but only 40 FPE with 50 gr. bullets if you don't change the hammer strike.... However, if you lean on the hammer strike, you can push the bullets at 70 FPE.... This is at a constant 1800 psi.... To perform properly, heavy bullets need longer dwell, and hence require an increase in hammer strike.... Since you are already opening the valve sufficiently, and overcoming the pressure in the reservoir to do so, you don't really need more lift, but you do need more dwell.... That is why heavy hammers work better with heavy bullets....
If you can't increase the hammer weight, then the only way to increase the dwell is to also increase the lift by increasing the hammer strike through spring stiffness, preload, or travel.... You don't NEED the extra lift, but it comes with the increase in dwell at constant hammer weight....
Bob
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In Evanix guns the hammer can hit the valve housing nose if it has enough force to completely open the valve. With enough hammer strike that should indeed be possible.
After those mods I did (0.8mm more potential valve opening, a bit more hammer strike length and 1 gram off the hammer weight) I lost power (quite a lot actually, I can’t really figure out why) but produced a 5 shot string at 165fpe level with only 10 fps variation. IMO that is rather exceptional for these power levels and I’m very tempted to keep that for silhouette shooting.
Anyway, to be able to revert back to this tune I guess I need to see how much weight I can add to the hammer to increase the dwell. Right now the dwell is way too short and the firing noise is only a short very backyard friendly snap (with the LDC) while the bullet hitting my silent pellet trap actually makes more noise than the gun.
After maxing out the hammer weight I then have an opportunity to measure the actual valve opening at the lowest pressure I plan on using and then make a dimple for the valve stem at the hammer nose that allows the hammer to almost hit the valve housing. Although I may have to get a backup hammer first before I go that far. Actually I could also shift the airtube/valve housing combo forward in the breach and increase the hammer travel that way. I think there's about 1-1.5mm potential for that in there.
The problem for me is that I have huge trouble finding more powerful springs. I have the original hammer spring which tends to produce very bumpy power curves and this two spring combo package I can get from the local HW store. Spring changes being out of equation I need to experiment with hammer strike length and hammer mass.
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McMaster-Carr has a good selection of springs.... and you can always shorten them to fit if necessary.... I think when you start actually measuring the lift you will be surprised at how small it is, particularly on those quiet, efficient shots.... likely less than 1/4 the throat diameter.... Have you read through this thread?.... http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=48892.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=48892.0)
Bob
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There's a big pond called Atlantic ocean in between me and McMaster Carr so they are really not an option. Now here comes the interesting bit. I was wondering why I had suddenly lost some 20fpe power, the answer is - dirty barrel. I tried pushing a JSB through it and I really had to hammer that wooden stick I was using to get it through and lead was building up on the nose. I did a thorough barrel cleanup and suddenly the gun is doing 20 fpe more. The power drop happened after I tried some heavy 135 grain bullets in the gun. Some 60-70 shots total since I last cleaned the barrel.
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WOW!, good to know about the leading.... Yeah, McMaster Carr won't even sell to Canada....
Bob
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WOW!, good to know about the leading.... Yeah, McMaster Carr won't even sell to Canada....
Bob
We had a discussion about this in our local forum and the conclusion was that heavy bullets tend to build up more lead. The lead build up happens on rifle lands so it seems I caused excessive leading by shooting those few heavy bullets through.
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WOW! ! 10 pages later here I am?
Great Sunday coffee reading. HATS OFF to the project.
Just now entering the big bore? Much more to learn.
Enjoyed the reading and work!!
FANG
JUNKYARD AIRGUN'S
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WOW!, good to know about the leading.... Yeah, McMaster Carr won't even sell to Canada....
Bob
We had a discussion about this in our local forum and the conclusion was that heavy bullets tend to build up more lead. The lead build up happens on rifle lands so it seems I caused excessive leading by shooting those few heavy bullets through.
If you are casting your own bullets can't you modify the lead content maybe a little more tin or antimony to make a slightly harder casting?
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WOW! ! 10 pages later here I am?
Great Sunday coffee reading. HATS OFF to the project.
Just now entering the big bore? Much more to learn.
Enjoyed the reading and work!!
FANG
JUNKYARD AIRGUN'S
Thanks mate, it ain't over yet. I ordered a new 29.5" barrel from Peurala, I've been hearing good things about those barrels. The new barrel alone should put me around 230 fpe mark but I may actually drop the power down to 210 fpe level as I'm mainly looking for increase in accuracy.
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If you are still looking for springs you could try making your own, a lathe is the easiest way, but a drill press works too, just need a proper sized rod with a small hole in it to feed the wire trough, a little practice, and some spring wire. The wire is pretty easy to find and cheap, either spring or music wire can be used. I do use mcmaster tho lol.
Great build by the way. Enjoyed all of it.
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If you are still looking for springs you could try making your own, a lathe is the easiest way, but a drill press works too, just need a proper sized rod with a small hole in it to feed the wire trough, a little practice, and some spring wire. The wire is pretty easy to find and cheap, either spring or music wire can be used. I do use mcmaster tho lol.
Great build by the way. Enjoyed all of it.
Thanks. I considered making my own springs but eventually I just cold forged the existing double spring combo. Inserted them around matching steel rod (drill bit shank) and hammered them all around and then let them settle in the oven set for pyrolytic cleaning. That increased the length by some 8mm and provided enough tension for me to break that 200 fpe barrier. The problem at that point is that the 21" barrel length is starting to restrict power and there really is not much room for bigger transfer port.
One thing to look for is the JKHan airguns, it seems that the longer air tube used in some models could actually fit these Evanix guns. I got a tethering regulator for my bottle so I don't really need that but something that others might consider.
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A short test with new barrel:
88 grain FTs are flying at around 1035 fps for about 210 fpe
109 grain oversize BBTs are flying at around 950 fps for 220 fpe or 300 joules.
With properly sized 135 grainers this gun should do 230 fpe as predicted. With more hammer spring and heavy bullets I might even hit 240 or 250fpe but this build is meant for bullets that fit in the magazine and I don't want to push them much past 930fps.
I need to get a bullet sizer and start tuning for 930 fps with BBTs.
Edit, another bit of news for those interested in 9mm Eanixes. I managed to purchase a valve block and associated parts from a guy who's building .257 from his gun and the channel leading from valve tunnel to transfer port is drilled at an angle in these newer guns. It should give extra power and it also makes porting easier. Sadly the assembly was quite pitiful, this was a part from a brand new gun and that channel leading to transfer port was off center as the nose was threaded/turned in too far. The valve stem o-ring was also cut it it's groove making the valve jam. Not good as these were untouched parts as they come from the factory.
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It was nice weather for a change so I took some photos, new barrel makes the gun longer. You can see the re-inforced rear of the block and power adjuster:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/new_barrel-1_zpsso5qdylk.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/new_barrel-1_zpsso5qdylk.jpg.html)
This is what it takes to make a 220 fpe gun back yard "friendly", it's still not truly quiet but I can zero it in my backyard if needed:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/new_barrel-2_zps6nuuqqeh.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/new_barrel-2_zps6nuuqqeh.jpg.html)
Finally some ammo comparison, 4.5mm JSB, .35 JSB, .357 short version of BBT at 109 grains that I use for silhouettes and a 683 grain .50 bullet that one of the lads uses to knock down silhouettes. You can see the difference in rifling from old barrel (JSB) to new one (BBT):
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/ammo_zpsdds3ntme.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/ammo_zpsdds3ntme.jpg.html)
The stock is showing some marks of wear and rough handling so I'll probably have to fix it someday after I make a proper case for the gun. The loading lever also needs to be cold blued.
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Still here! Just read all of this posting again. Man great reading and results.
Keep it coming.
Got to say the RS2 is a Hand fitting gun. Very good platform and now a potential power house making.
You have much time in the research of this gun. But look at the results.
I looked at an Air Precision gun. Looked like a clone of the RS2. Rated at 150 fpe? Beautiful grained stock. Had a large ldc on the end. The gun felt good in the hands. Shooting it the trigger was not bad. Noise level was not bad. But the thinking of parts turned me off of it? It was well priced at a bargain to me. Another thing that got me was the gun had a leaking fill valve issue to start off as new.
As NP has shown us you can convert the RS2 to many different dresses. Much cheaper than the RAW HM1000X.357 and more power? But man the RAW shoots so good. Much more money as well.
Thanks
FANG
JUNKYARD AIRGUN'S
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It's about finding the accuracy next. The new barrel is of superb quality when compared to the original one. I need to find the ideal bullet and ideal speed for that. The goal is to get consistent sub 2" groups at 100M.
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rkr, which barrel are you using now? It seems your goal of sub 2" @ 100 is very obtainable.
Tom
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rkr, which barrel are you using now? It seems your goal of sub 2" @ 100 is very obtainable.
Tom
It's made by a local gunsmith named Peurala. He makes he's own barrels to customer specifications and they are used in competition powder burners normally. I specified mine close to the land and groove diameters of the original Korean barrels after much thought. The twist is 21.5:1. Sub 2" groups takes in to account my less than stellar shooting and bullet casting skills, I believe these barrels have a potential for sub MOA with the right bullet and shooter. I can say it's much better than the Korean barrels in quality, no tight or loose spots and very nice rifling marks on the bullet.
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"dang" these Evanixes, I've been shooting at 200+ fpe level for a while now and the sidelever started popping open again. Further inspection showed that the screw connecting the lever to the linkage that operates the probe had lost it's threads and became loose :( I replaced it with a new screw that has M4 threads instead of the M3 and changed the lever geometry slightly to fix that. It seems that eventually I'll have to rebuild the whole gun at this power level.
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"dang" these Evanixes, I've been shooting at 200+ fpe level for a while now and the sidelever started popping open again. Further inspection showed that the screw connecting the lever to the linkage that operates the probe had lost it's threads and became loose :( I replaced it with a new screw that has M4 threads instead of the M3 and changed the lever geometry slightly to fix that. It seems that eventually I'll have to rebuild the whole gun at this power level.
Ok, that answers my question about my own lever. It pops open when I shoot and I wasnt sure if that was because I warped it at high power or if it was something else. I still have a Sniper lever on order with Pyramyd.
Its a bit trashy looking, but a rubber band over the breech is a workable temporary solution to keep the lever in place. So far its working for me.
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"dang" these Evanixes, I've been shooting at 200+ fpe level for a while now and the sidelever started popping open again. Further inspection showed that the screw connecting the lever to the linkage that operates the probe had lost it's threads and became loose :( I replaced it with a new screw that has M4 threads instead of the M3 and changed the lever geometry slightly to fix that. It seems that eventually I'll have to rebuild the whole gun at this power level.
Ok, that answers my question about my own lever. It pops open when I shoot and I wasnt sure if that was because I warped it at high power or if it was something else. I still have a Sniper lever on order with Pyramyd.
Its a bit trashy looking, but a rubber band over the breech is a workable temporary solution to keep the lever in place. So far its working for me.
You can file off 1-1.5mm from the front part of the lever where it touches the breech. This will move the linkage pivot point more to the left from the breech centerline and thus prevent the lever from popping open.
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Had the same problem on my newer RS2 9MM. I WAS TESTING SOME NEW AMMO that was a bit tight in the bore and ever shot opened the lever. I see no damage but in the BULLDOG stock being right cheek to mag I do not care for these incidents.
Went to a better fit pellet and lighter and no more open bolt? I'll have to check out your ideal.
FANG
JUNKYARD AIRGUN'S
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The Evanix story continues. Based on past seasons experiences I'll be improving the gun over the winter. The first thing to do was to amend the side lever attachment. While the rear support bar allows more power to be used without catastrophic consequences it still allows that round disc that holds the side lever screw to move about a bit. Over time this causes the screw to become loose which may eventually lead to snapped screw or other bad things. To prevent this I spent some time in the garage to make an improved rear support bar that makes the screw attachment point solid:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/lever-support-1_zpsj9mqyt29.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/lever-support-1_zpsj9mqyt29.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/lever-support-2_zps4adq5tw8.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/lever-support-2_zps4adq5tw8.jpg.html)
Had I had welding equipment I could have welded the disc to the support bar but I believe this is even better way of fixing things.
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Got the same issue on a fairly new gun. Already got a bulge. Weak point. Your repair is better than the welding for many reasons.
FANG
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In search for better accuracy:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/IMG_1831_zps7qse8csm.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/IMG_1831_zps7qse8csm.jpg.html)
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I like what you have done ! Great info wi all the test & tune . I will be checking back often to see how you make out with the accuracy? I have a rainstorm .357 & can't decide if I want to start all the mods or sell it and buy a gun that is set up the way I want?
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The winter project is nearing completion:
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/abbababbaccc/alu-pup1_zpsuwtv43xg.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/abbababbaccc/media/alu-pup1_zpsuwtv43xg.jpg.html)
The purpose here is to make the barrel free floating. The build is based on a 4x40x40x3mm aluminium U-beam that ties the breech and barrel+rail support together, thus in practice extending the breech and taking the flex away. The air tube is then left free floating so it's movement won't affect things. This is purely form follows function build up that can be used for standing position and BR. So far so good and it's a bit lighter than the wooden stock version.
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very nice post,very educational in many ways,and all done without a lathe,amazing job,great results,thank you rkr, ;D
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Quite a journey. Looking very good and as you know I'm a big fan of the floating barrel although I dislike the term as it is not floating at all. Curious which barrel you are using?
Tom
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Thanks guys! Tom, it was your Slayer that gave me an inspiration to try aluminium frame. The sad fact is that the construction of RS2 is anything but rigid. The airtube can move in the breech and the barrel moves up and down quite a lot. Add to that a long heavy barrel and dumping out 15 bar from the airtube + ends of the barrel and tube connected together and we have problems. I hope this "exoskeleton" approach will fix that. It will probably be a month or so before I get a chance to test the accuracy so don't hold your breath about that.
BTW, one thing I overlooked. The hollowpoint probe and magazines won't work well together, got to fix that too.
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Dang, I was tuning the gun for around 200 fpe for our next competition - opened up the RVA two turns from full and BBTs are flying at 970+ fps = 230 fpe now. I guess I did something right during the rebuild. Unfortunately I'm on my handpump now so I won't do any extensive power testing, just set the power where I want it. It looks like I should get 240+ fpe with some 135 grainers and RVA all in.
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you guys seem to know this model FAR better then myself . I had a friend looking at ordering an older version . The 9mm or .302 Blizzard online BC he has credit somewhere they sell it or something like that . He wanted to know how the Blizzard compares with the WC and RS and whats the opions between the .302 and 9mm . etc. Thanks for your time .
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you guys seem to know this model FAR better then myself . I had a friend looking at ordering an older version . The 9mm or .302 Blizzard online BC he has credit somewhere they sell it or something like that . He wanted to know how the Blizzard compares with the WC and RS and whats the opions between the .302 and 9mm . etc. Thanks for your time .
RS2 and Blizzard are the same basic gun with blizzard having 1" or so longer barrel and airtube. Windy City is a bottle gun and these have rather restrictive inlet to the valve housing. My .45 Sniper X2 has one opened up to 8mm but that's the biggest I would go. This means that the power potential in bottle guns will be slightly lower in .357 caliber. I've seen several .357 and .45 barrels that are really poor in quality. I've read people giving praise to .30 caliber accuracy but somehow find it hard to believe that Evanix would make one caliber barrels better than others. There are always good ones but so far it's been a lottery whether you get a good or bad barrel.
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C'mon Riku, throw the mag away and single feed for better accuracy, not like it takes too long at our comps anyway.
Interesting to see how it works.
Marko
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C'mon Riku, throw the mag away and single feed for better accuracy, not like it takes too long at our comps anyway.
Interesting to see how it works.
Marko
Now that I have the .45 for silhouettes this .357 will probably be used for BR without magazine. I just haven't had time to rebuild or test and tune it for that.
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5 beers later and I made it through 11 pages...what a great build! I learned a lot and hope to apply some of this to improve my evanix x2 357. Your fabrication methods are similar to mine...less fancy tools and more time and testing...fitting...checking...file some more until it fits!
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5 beers later and I made it through 11 pages...what a great build! I learned a lot and hope to apply some of this to improve my evanix x2 357. Your fabrication methods are similar to mine...less fancy tools and more time and testing...fitting...checking...file some more until it fits!
Grab another sixpack then, here's the Sniper X2 story https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110075.msg1054657#msg1054657 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110075.msg1054657#msg1054657) :)