GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Monganese on December 12, 2013, 07:53:49 PM
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So I've made a few cheap purchases at a new bric a brac shop that opened near us, couple of BSA's and a Crosman 2260 and couldn't resist paying the huge sum of £10 for a Chinese .22 breech-loading underlever like the first gun I ever had, plus a very similar action albeit with a very (read deliberately) bent barrel for spares. It would seem after some research that "they" are B3 type guns, although I have no idea what company made them (well, the spares action has a stamp with the word Snow and some Chinese writing, I'm guessing that'll be a Snowpeak then?) but the complete gun has no makers mark at all but seems fair quality for a Chinese copy job.
So far I've not done an awful lot, just plinked a few shots at coffee jars in the garden, stripped it down & swapped the air chamber and piston from the snowpeak since the breech seal was mangled in the unbranded one. I also repaired the anti beartrap mech (although I wish I hadn't since it leaves me unable to uncock the gun without firing, not ideal for me since I like/need to uncock for safety sometimes. I'll remove it next time since I always but always hold the lever/barrel with the stock under my arm when loading anyway so there's no need for mechanical "safety" devices IMO)
I noticed that both actions had the CDT style crosspin (if that's the pin over the anti beartrap's tongue that stops it bending?)
But after reading up on here I'll strip it down again & make some more mods, lube the piston seal properly or replace, add a washer to the spring guide & a few other bits & sh1ts. I think they must both be older models since neither one has a safety mechanism (strange since both had anti beartrap & crosspin?) and the trigger guard is metal. I read that later ones had plastic trigger guards.
I'll try to get some pics tomorrow so maybe someone will know exactly what it is/they are & how old etc. Still shot pretty well considering it's a £10 gun, seemed to like JSB jumbo diabolos & had reasonable power behind it, putting 1/4" deep, paint-free dents in an old GM Vectra wing I was shooting at from 15m, compared to barely 1/8" blisters caused by my 2240 at 6m before I changed it to a 2260 but that's another story for another time & place :)
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I beleive what you have (at least the one) is a B3-1 made by Shanghai in China. I have 1 in .177 and 1 in .22. They can be purchased (when in stock) at DP Wholesale. They ask that you have a vender's permit and they have a $100.00 minimum order. Yes, they have a steel trigger guard, yes they have the anti bear trap and no, they do not have a safety. I think it's known as Industry Brand. I've seen it called that when I searched for it. Mine has an "R" on them in a position suggesting that it is the first letter in a word or name. If I am wrong, I apologize to the group.
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Thanks, you're probably right about the unbranded one. I noticed after I logged out last night that the scrapaction is definitely Snowpeak branded (the word PEAK was hiding under a spot of rust lol)
I'll get some pics shortly... :D
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I've got eight B3's. Two new B3-1 I bought at a flea market with the "R" made in china. Later I got two B2's and a B1 from the same guy with the same emblem. I got a B3-1 and B3-3 or 4 with the trigger safety (I've also seen it referred to as B-3F) from lostworld.com thru amazon, no emblem on either or a B1 I ordered from them. I've got two used ones with the Industry Brand stamp, two without. From what I've seen, seems Peak, BAM and XS and SMK are all the same company. I don't see any new Peak guns but I buy Peak pellets all the time.
I don't know how bad your barrel's bent on the parts gun, but check out the home project gate in this forum (trick & tips) Barrel bending 101. I built the jig and bent the barrels a little on Three of my B3's and a Bam B3 Ak to get them back within the perimeters of the sight adjustments.
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Thanks for the replies, I've still not managed to photograph them yet due to spending all afternoon stripping them both down & rebuilding the best parts into the unbranded (straight-ish barreled) tube.
I've given the cylinder a hone to remove the pitting & a big scratch, smoothed out the piston a little, gave the best seal a good bathe in neatsfoot (both are leather, one is a bit ragged & both were very dry and have split plastic retainers), polished the ends of the spring, added a polished washer to the seat on the guide, polished the sear & reassembled it all with decent lube, removed & stored the anti beartrap parts too. The difference is night & day, it's still a front heavy cheap old gun but the cocking action is almost as silky smooth as my .22 Meteor and the trigger (actually a rather nice 2 stage all metal affair) although lacking a little feel is a lot smoother too. Got dark before I could finish properly setting up a cheap china scope on it but seems to be shooting pretty consistently if slowly too.
Really I should give the barrel a good clean but I wanted to throw some lead, so that can be done tomorrow maybe. Speaking of barrels, the snowpeak was bad lefteyeshot, as in 35-40*, deliberate bending bad! That said, out of interest I threw an old motorcycle fork leg over the barrel, jammed the main tube between some railings outside & pulled around at it a bit just to see what happened.
What happened is, surprisingly to me, the thing's looking pretty much bob-on now with no obvious kink and it's actually aligned better with the maintube than the working one now! I'll take a look at your suggestions before I go further but I figured I'd take it to a friend's workshop & set it up on his lathe & dial indicator to see where I stand on this. Might end up building it up if it's close & see what she's like.
For now though I've got enough to play with having picked up another semi-complete .22 Meteor, some other assorted BSA & Chinese parts including some Mercury bits & a couple of scopes so playtime is pretty full for a while :D
Thanks again for the replies & sorry for rambling on haha! Promise I'll get pics soon, if I can stop playing while it's light enough!
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OK promise I'll get pics of the actual gun in a sec, but for now heres a few groups I got while zeroing the Chinese scope I fitted last night... What does anyone reckon to them? (Shot at 15-17ish yards unmeasured only paced out, knelt on one knee going off hand rested on the seat of one of my bikes, light breeze shooting JSB Exact Jumbo 15.89grain)
First group of 5, slightly low & the left one is a pulled shot
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/a1caddy/notbad15yds.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/a1caddy/media/notbad15yds.jpg.html)
Second 5, pretty darn good IMO
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/a1caddy/notbad15yd3.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/a1caddy/media/notbad15yd3.jpg.html)
Last 5, didn't take so much care with my aim this time as I was cold, first shot was pulled an inch left so I changed my POA to that hole for the rest of them, second shot went pretty much through the first hole :D
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/a1caddy/notbad15yd2.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/a1caddy/media/notbad15yd2.jpg.html)
I don't think it's done bad at all, to be fair most of the variation is down to me! I've found all my .22s seem to just love the JSB pellets as far as accuracy goes, well worth the couple of quid extra per tin IMO
EDIT-: Here's the gun :)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/a1caddy/gunb3.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/a1caddy/media/gunb3.jpg.html)
Sat on sofa next to the .177 Meteor...
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/a1caddy/gunb3bsa.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/a1caddy/media/gunb3bsa.jpg.html)
Metal 2-stage trigger & metal guard...
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/a1caddy/gunb32.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/a1caddy/media/gunb32.jpg.html)
Plastic scope that I used for the above groups...
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/a1caddy/gunb3scope.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/a1caddy/media/gunb3scope.jpg.html)
Some of the other guns, scopes and parts I have...
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/a1caddy/gunscopes.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/a1caddy/media/gunscopes.jpg.html)
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So that's the gun pics edited into the above post along with the 3 groups, what does anyone reckon? That plus leather piston seal & no brand marking = it's a pre 2003 Industry B3 right? I guess that's as close as I'll get to fully identifying it, but if she keeps shooting as well as she is now once I increase the range a little who cares who originally built her huh? 8)
EDIT-: few more groups, same distance but wind starting to get a bit gusty now.
First target I did 5x groups of 5, couple of fliers...
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/a1caddy/5x5.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/a1caddy/media/5x5.jpg.html)
Then I did a sequence of 10 shots on this target, standing offhand. Don't think me & the gun did bad at all considering the wind. The 3-pointer was my fault :D
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/a1caddy/offhand10.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/a1caddy/media/offhand10.jpg.html)
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[smg id=1570]
[smg id=1571]
John
By the way, that's one strange way to use a dead gun! Actually, that's one strange place to hide a battery also... What car is that? :o
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I picked up a B3 at our shooting club flea market. If I had known about the bear trap, I would have passed. How can one tell if it is equipped with a antibeartrap? I plan on installing a CDT stop on it. I have managed to keep these fingers for 71 years.
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I'll post pics next time I take mine down. In the meantime, holding the stock under one arm and using that hand to hold the lever in the open position while putting the pellet in should save on your fingers. A beartrap is not a quaranteed failsafe.
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If you take the stock off and cock the gun you can see the anti-bear trap device work. The end of it slides underneath the trigger. If you got a two piece cocking linkage you'll have to hold it down to cock it while out of the stock. Simple how it works but don't trust it. And when you return the cocking lever back under the barrel you'll see how it pulls it out.
A simple extra safety is a short wooden dowel you can drop into the breach, while loading a pellet, with a lanyard you can pull it out with and the other end attached to the scope mount or trigger guard to keep it handy. Saw that somewhere in the forum but can't find it just now.
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Is there any way to tell if you have a anti beartrap without taking the gun out of the stock?
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Yes but, I don't recommend it ... LOL Just kidding... put the stock under your armpit and apply the same preasure on the cocking lever as it took to cock the gun. Pull the trigger and see if the cocking lever tries to return to the locked in position. BE VERY CAREFUL !!!! It's going to try to close with the same preasure it takes to cock the gun if there is no anti-bear trap. If there is an anti-bear trap, you should not be able to pull the trigger until the cocking arm is locked into position. You could also put the stock on the floor between your feet and cock it that way to have better control of the cocking lever. AGAIN, BE VERY CAREFUL !!!!
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Thanks for the info. I will give it a try, although it brings flashbacks of the Red Ryder lever finger masher.
No matter what, I do not want my fingers in there.
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I would venture a wager that your B3 DOES have the anti-bear trap.
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It appears to have an anti in it.
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Although I'd never recommend it, personally I remove the beartrap from any underlever I buy (but keep the parts in case of resale, not likely!)
Might sound crazy to some, but in my humble opinion there's little real value to the device & what there is, is far outweighed by the resulting annoying inability to uncock the gun without firing (something I like to have the option of, doing most of my shooting in the garden as I do). Also I think such things are folly in that they tend to promote bad practice ("my gun has anti-beartrap device so I don't need to bother holding the lever while I load").
Good gun handling practice almost negates any need for a mechanical "safety" device anyway, but if you don't feel confident in your ability to hold onto the lever while loading (or doubt the ability of the cocking mechanism to stay in one piece) for any reason, there's the above dowel idea that acts as a "belt and braces" addition. Also, I believe somebody on this site made a pellet holder/loader (out of an old pen IIRC) that enabled them to load the gun without placing any part of their anatomy inside the open breech.