GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: DRAGON64 on September 23, 2013, 09:16:23 AM
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I am purchasing a newly used R9 today. It is a .22 cal variant, that is advertised to shoot between 650 to 740 fps. To the the best of my knowledge, the rifle is working in a stock configuration (has not been tuned), and performs nominally. Is this enough power to hunt squirrel at longer distances? I know I need to do the artillery hold, but I was hoping to not have to lob artillery at 45 and 50 yards... does this make sense? Can the power be increased to say 850 to 900 fps? Can the R9 take it?
The R9 comes highly recommended for my purpose (hunting / pesting small game), but since this is my first springer and hunting rifle, I would like to think I chose wisely...especially since it kind of stressing my budget...
To that, I ask my last question; what would make an excellent scope combo for the R9 that will fit a $150 budget? I have searched "airgun rated" scopes till I have analysis paralysis, and so now I must poll the masses that know...
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I have a R9 "Goldfinger" in .22 cal that I bought new several years ago. My rifle shot so well right from the box that I never felt it needed any tuning and to this day it remains bone stock. The FPS range you listed is right on the money when it comes to an R9 and believe me, it's plenty of power for hunting squirrels. I've taken many a squirrel out to 40 yards with no problems at all. As with any air rifle hunting proper shot placement is the key and for the most part that means head shots. 40 yards is my own self imposed limit when it comes to squirrels. As you know they are tough critters. They have a thick hide and a tenacious will to survive, which is why I only go for head shots. I'm not saying you can't take a body shot, of course you can and it can be effective, but for my hunting I choose head shots. Anyway, back on topic...... that R9 has plenty of power for squirrel hunting so don't give it a second thought. As for increasing the power...... sure, you no doubt could do that, but the R9's are such sweet shooting guns I don't think you'll feel the need to do that once you start shooting the gun. Besides, 900 FPS in a .22 springer is really a lot of power and other than PCP's and a few real "magnum" springers it's common for the majority of .22 springers to be somewhere between 650 - 750 fps and that's all the power you need for small game hunting.
You've picked a fine rifle for your first springer, one of the best in my opinion. I also have an R9 Goldfinger in .177 cal (also still bone stock) and I've always said that my 2 R9's are my absolute favorite springers.
As for a scope.... 3x9x40 or 3x14x40 would be perfect for the rifle in my opinion and those range scopes give you all you'll need for small game hunting. I've always been partial to Centerpoint scopes and most of my rifles wear them. Of course everyone has their own favorites when it comes to scopes, but Centerpoint has always served me well and has done it at a price I feel comfortable with. I'm sure others will give you their choices for scopes.
I'm sure others will chime in and give you their advise. Congrats on choosing a fine rifle :) Let us know how you make out with it.
BTW..... Both of my R9's have also cleanly taken woodchucks, some of them quite large, within 30 yards and woodchucks are one of the toughest critters I know of when it comes to putting them down for good. All were taken with head shots.... but it just shows you that the R9's have plenty of hunting power. :)
Jeff
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Wow, you have lifted a load of concerns off of my shoulders. I knew that the R9 has a huge reputation for quality and accuracy, and I have high hopes that this rifle will be no exception. Thanks for the experience and input.
As for the scope... my best scope has been the Center Point 4-16X40, and I have considered purchasing another for this rifle; I can only assume then, that Center Points can handle whatever recoil that an R9 can dish out(?) That is good to know, since I am quite familiar with my older model 4-16X40.
Thanks again, you have made my Monday!
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Is this enough power to hunt squirrel at longer distances? I know I need to do the artillery hold, but I was hoping to not have to lob artillery at 45 and 50 yards... does this make sense?
Certainly enough power at longer distances, but can you place the pellet in a nickle at longer distances with the loopy trajectory? Here is a little "trajectory chart" I worked up from the ChairGun ballistic software.......
.22 Crosman Premier pellet weighing 13.5 grains at 650 fps gives 13 1/2 fpe
With a zero distance of 25 yards and a 1 3/4" scope height you'll get this trajectory (a loopier trajectory with a 1 1/2" scope height)............
The pellet drop from 25 yards to 30 yards........about 1/2" which is probably pretty easy to guess but enough drop to do a "wounding head shot" with poor holdover.
30 to 35 yards.........an additional 3/4" of drop......now you have 1 1/4" total drop from the 25 yard zero........gettin' a bit more difficult to judge holdover!
35-40 yards.........an additional 1" of drop......now you have 2 1/4" drop from the 25 yard zero.......difficult to judge holdover!
40-45 yards.........an additional 1 1/2" of drop........now you have 3 3/4" drop from the 25 yard zero.........real difficult to judge holdover!
45-50 yards.........an additional 1 3/4" of drop........now you have 5 1/2" drop from the 25 yard zero.
Notice that at all ranges if you misjudge the distance by only 5 yards (and only 2 yards at 50......48-50 yards = an additional 3/4" drop) you'll wound the squirrel even with a perfect hold under field conditions! This is the main reason I sold my .20 and .22 berrels on my R9 and reverted back to .177. An "on the spot" hit with a .177 is better than an "off the spot" hit .22!
Can the power be increased to say 850 to 900 fps? Can the R9 take it?
Nope....not even close! A 13.5 grain CP at 750fps is almost 18fpe. I have tuned a .20 R9 for 17.5fpe with the roughly 11 grain Beeman FTS pellet using a real stiff spring and oring sealed piston cap, however the gun was EXTREMELY hold sensitive and was a pretty good scope wrecker at that tune level!
The R9 comes highly recommended for my purpose (hunting / pesting small game), but since this is my first springer and hunting rifle, I would like to think I chose wisely...especially since it kind of stressing my budget...
LOL......I find that my .177 is perfectly adequate for squirrel hunting out to any distance I can hit a nickle (or paintball) 8 out of 10 times! Still, if at all possible I attempt to stalk within the zero distance of my R9 to remove any concern about holdover! IMHO, shooting a springer at squirrels at 50 yards under field conditions with a gun of the R9 power level is pretty much "lottery shooting"! This is fine for inanimate targets.....not living critters!
To that, I ask my last question; what would make an excellent scope combo for the R9 that will fit a $150 budget?
Can't help much here since I use a scope in the $300 range (4-12 Vortex Diamondback with BDC reticle) on my .177 R9 but the "heavy as a brick" $80 4-16 Center Point scope I have for a back-up scope works just fine "so far"!
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Hmmm... I could save myself $75 if I just went with an RWS 34 Compact in .177 then... which I was looking closely at anyway. I'm working on a tight budget (like most of us) and was trying to find a hunting springer on a $350 budget. The Beeman R9 went over by $25... Back to a confused state now.
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Hmmm... I could save myself $75 if I just went with an RWS 34 Compact in .177 then... which I was looking closely at anyway. I'm working on a tight budget (like most of us) and was trying to find a hunting springer on a $350 budget. The Beeman R9 went over by $25... Back to a confused state now.
Diana aficionados may disagree, but in my opinion there is a big difference in quality between the R9/HW95 and any version of the 34. They are in a completely different class, though similar in power. This difference is represented in the price. You may be quite happy with the 34. I have a couple, and they are great. I also have a R9 in .22, and Ed above is right on concerning caliber choice for hunting with the R9. My .22 definitely lobs the pellets. Love the rifle though. Very easy on the eye, and mine shoots just fine as is for now. Either rifle will serve you well, but in this power class .177 is probably the better choice for dependable, repeatable hunting accuracy. No sense going around wounding cute furry creatures, tk
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"on a $350 budget. The Beeman R9 went over by $25"
Humm....the last R9 I bought from Straight Shooters was about $462.50 with free shipping which is about $112 over your budget.
http://www.straightshooters.com/rifle-spring-gas-ram-.177-spring-gas.html (http://www.straightshooters.com/rifle-spring-gas-ram-.177-spring-gas.html)
Or you can get the basic HW95 from Airguns Of Arizona for $398 with free shipping which is almost $50 over your budget!
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/ (http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/)
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The 34's I have are just as accurate as my 95. However as stated, Weihrauch's are built to a higher quality. Diana's are utilitarian grade.
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I know the Brits do it on a daily basis, but could a .177 R9/HW95 pull double duty as a field target rifle and a hunting rifle in sub 12 fpe? I realize that it all comes down to the shooter and shot placement...
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I know the Brits do it on a daily basis, but could a .177 R9/HW95 pull double duty as a field target rifle and a hunting rifle in sub 12 fpe? I realize that it all comes down to the shooter and shot placement...
Yep.......matter of fact the R9 becomes a really sweet shooter at the 12fpe level and it has more than enough power to take squirrels past any distance you should be shooting pellets and the accuracy is good for field target. The issue is learning the correct Kentucky windage for the power level. As far as pellet drop is concerned, when both a 12fpe tune and a 14fpe tune are zero'd at 30 yards there is LESS than 1" difference in the drop of a 7.9 grain CPL at 50 yards!
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get the HW95 its the same gun basically as the R9, AOA has them for less then $400 shipped, I had a HW95 in .22cal a few yrs ago it was a very nice rifle :P it shot 650fps out of the box w/14.3gn CPHP's it was deadly accurate and I shot allot of crows and pigeons out to 70yds so IMO its plenty for bunny's and nutters out to 50yds with proper shot placement JMO ;) :P
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Monies have been sent, so now I wait for the R9 in .22 to show up... I decided that ballistics-be-darned, having an R9 in any caliber is a good thing. The seller is including a number of sample pellets that he tested to be good shooters... coupled with the two tins of .22 cal I have on hand, I believe I will have a good weekend of pellet testing coming up.
I also ordered a scope for the new (to me) rifle; a UTG 4-16X40 SWAT. Fits my price range, and has the same zoom range as my Center Point scope... Optics palnet had a better price than PA, so I opted for the 80mm side wheel to compliment the SWAT feature.
Thanks for the replies, it has been quite educational... with reading time over with, it is time for the school of hands on!
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...before I forget; what material is the muzzle break made from? Is it Delrin or Aluminum?
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if you bought a Factory R9 DG model it will be a steel muzzle break :P
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Yup, should be steel.
Congrats on the new R9..... I know you're gonna love it as much as I love mine... and that's saying a lot :)
Jeff
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if you bought a Factory R9 DG model it will be a steel muzzle break :P
Steel is good, I imagine it will help with balance... thanks!
Yup, should be steel.
Congrats on the new R9..... I know you're gonna love it as much as I love mine... and that's saying a lot :)
Jeff
Thanks Jeff, I have a pretty good feeling about the sale as the seller has been pretty straight forward, and has communicated to me quite well that I should have fun for years to come. From the small images I have seen of the rifle, it is quite elegant with no marks (pressure or damage).
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They are quite nice. Enjoy, tk
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I've had both the RWS34 and the HW 95/R9 in 22 cal. I would take the HW 95/R9 HANDS DOWN between the two. Mine shoots a group as tight as a Bulls @$$ in fly season at 20 yds, and does a good job at 40 yds. I can hit a soup can EVERY shot at 80 yds. I use a UTG 3-9 Mil-dot scope. Dead on at 20 yds, 1 dot over at 40 yds, 3 1/2 dots over at 80 yds. The 14.3 gn CPHP goes through both sides of the can and into the tree at 80 yds. I see no reason for more power in squirrel hunting. I had one of the 900 fps + Mags in 22 cal. It was hard to shoot. IMO, the R9 is very forgiving and pretty easy to shoot compared to some. I think it is one of the best Brake Barrel's on the market. There seems to be a reason that the "Bulls-eye" shooters use under 15 fpe. I was up and down too on which gun to get. I bought others before getting the HW 95 Luxus/R9, and not one of them compared favorably to it.
As with everything... "Your Mileage may vary" ;)
Snakebite
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I've had both the RWS34 and the HW 95/R9 in 22 cal. I would take the HW 95/R9 HANDS DOWN between the two. Mine shoots a group as tight as a Bulls @$$ in fly season at 20 yds, and does a good job at 40 yds. I can hit a soup can EVERY shot at 80 yds. I use a UTG 3-9 Mil-dot scope. Dead on at 20 yds, 1 dot over at 40 yds, 3 1/2 dots over at 80 yds. The 14.3 gn CPHP goes through both sides of the can and into the tree at 80 yds. I see no reason for more power in squirrel hunting. I had one of the 900 fps + Mags in 22 cal. It was hard to shoot. IMO, the R9 is very forgiving and pretty easy to shoot compared to some. I think it is one of the best Brake Barrel's on the market. There seems to be a reason that the "Bulls-eye" shooters use under 15 fpe. I was up and down too on which gun to get. I bought others before getting the HW 95 Luxus/R9, and not one of them compared favorably to it.
As with everything... "Your Mileage may vary" ;)
Snakebite
Thanks snake... I have some 14.3 domes I have been wanting try first and foremost, as they were excellent shooters for my .22 Marauder (which is long gone). I also have some Crosman pointed and some Benjamin hollow points... based on the tracking number, it looks as though the rifle will not arrive until Monday/Tuesday next week... The hardest part is the wait.
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"The hardest part is the wait"
I HATE THE WAIT!
Snakebite
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You could always just get both ;)
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You could always just get both ;)
In time maybe... I really liked the look of the compact, and might consider the 34 compact in .177.
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My new-to-me Beeman R9 in .22 arrived 3 days early (thanks USPS), and she is beautiful! Ran a quickly 10 across the chrony:
High: 711 Low: 673 ES: 37!!!
She is dieseling a little and smoking... she must not have been shot very much or broke in...
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/Johnnierkt/Beeman%20R9/IMG_6953_zpsda005e00.jpg)[/URL]
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/Johnnierkt/Beeman%20R9/IMG_6951_zpsdd8053fd.jpg)[/URL]
More info and question to come about this sweet rifle... oh yeah, the UTG 4-16X40 came in yesterday... great timing!
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Alright, I have had this rifle for 3-weeks, and I have been unsuccessful in getting her to group. I mounted a UTG 4-16X40 SWAT scope on the rifle, currently using a Beeman 5039 1-piece mount. I have tried a variety of pellets, and the Crosman Premier Domed in the tin have been the most accurate... but at 25-yards I am only managing 2.5" groups at best. Early on I had severe issues with POI shift, which I was able to correct with a little practice at the artillery hold. This hold irradicated much of my POI issues, yet the rifle will not group for me.
I also recently picked up an RWS 34 Pro Compact. I can get this rifle to group at .75" - 1" AT 25-yards, and the only scope I had at the time was a crappy 4-32 Gamo scope... I realise I would be comparing apples to oranges with an R9 in .22 to a D34 in .177, but my point is, the D34 is disadvantaged with a crappy Gamo scope and yet I can shoot better groups with her than the R9 with the UTG SWAT scope... which I feel is a decent scope for the money.
Help would be appreciated, as I know the accuracy is there... but I refuse to take this rifle on a hunt, until I am confident I can place my shot where I need it most.
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well theirs a few things you probably need to address which are the basic's stock screws, check the tension on the barrel block screws proper trigger adjustment, then if all that doesn't help you then I'll say you need to open up the gun and clean out all the excess lube from the factory and check the seals, HW tends to over lube the internals of their guns especially the piston seal :o >:( this is not uncommon to find them packed full of grease >:( I hope this helps ;D :P
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It could be a bad scope. I would consider trying the other scope on the R9.
Good luck,
Mark N
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I suppose a barrel cleaning wouldn't hurt. Then stuff 20 down the pipe and try regrouping.
Somewhere between the hold, the follow through after the squeeze and the pellets things should align.
Might want to mention which pellets..crosmans are too tight in many guns and out of the tin are not as nice as from the boxes. But every gun is unique.
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Mine shoots a 1/2" groups at 25 yds when I do my part. Even if I'm sloppy, it will shoot 1". If EVERYTHING is tight... then it might not hurt to try the other scope. I noticed your initial velocity spread... it was a little wider that I would want... maybe a tear down, cleaning and re-lube wouldn't hurt. I've had problems with my HW97K grouping, (I think I'm finally getting it under control), but the R9/HW95 has been tremendous. It works so well that I'm not even considering a Tune Kit for it. Mine shoots best with the 14.3 Crosman Premier HP... the Domed Crosman Premier pellets work OK, but the HP group better for me. It shoots them at 680fps and doesn't vary much, although it has been slowing moving up the more I shoot it.
Hang in there pard .. you have a fine rifle, and from the photos, it looks really nice. Consistency in your hold is very important.
I'm looking forward to your future reports on this.
Snakebite
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I have an R9 and even after 10+ years I occasionally start shooting crappy groups when I get lazy with my hold. I can shoot 2" groups at 30 yards when it gets bad, then I really concentrate and go back to what works and it improves. Just mentioning that to show a good gun can shoot bad and not have an underlying problem. That said, 2.5" at 25 yards sounds like something might be amiss in your gun.
I would remove it from the stock, reseat it and tighten the stock screws firmly. I personally use a torque wrench to do it consistently. If I do this I would also clean the barrel. Put 15 or so pellets through it and recheck your groups.
It isn't clear that you have the right pellet for it yet. Hard to tell if you have a loose stock or some other issue. I would try JSB and H&N, something in the 15 grain range. Always surprises me how well a particular pellet will shoot while all others spray. Just a fact of life.
A lot of folks say the R9 is hold sensitive - me included. Pay extra attention to your shooting technique. This is what works for me:
- use a consistent rest. I'd stick with resting it in your palm. Be consistent with how it nestles into your hand and where on the stock your hand holds it. I make sure the trigger guard lightly touches my rest hand the same way every time. I don't grip the gun, instead let my palm lay flat and the gun sitting on top with no fingers gripping the sides.
- take aim, then take one more steady breath, let it out and try to take my shot after exhaling. Find a rhythm that works for you.
- be consistent with where your trigger fingers contacts the trigger and your pull
When I "do my part" above my groups shrink down to 1/2". Not every group but enough of them that I know it is me when they are more open.
If it still shoots like &^^& then I would take it apart and do a lube tune if you feel up for it, or send it off to John in PA for a Vortek or Macarri kit install and tune.
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I shot both the R9 and the M34 to confirm nothing has changed since I last shot. Then I swapped the mounts and scope between the two rifles. The R9 shot mostly the same with the crappy Gamo 4X32 scope, and the M34, with the new UTG scope, was making nice groups (on painted steel) from 25-yards. Satisfied that the UTG scope was okay, I swapped it back to the R9. Now the R9 seems to be shooting much tighter groups (1" - 1.25") now. I have run out of decent pellets, and most of my shooting was done with Crosman and Discovery 14.3gr HP's and Crosman 14.3gr domes. I believe I am going to bite-the-bullet and pick up four tins of H&N FTT's with the 5.53 head size... I have read than many a shooter prefer these pellets in their rifles...
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Curious to know what pellets you have tried. You say a variety has been tried but I do not know which ones and do not want to re read the whole thread. You might consider trying mid weight JSB's and maybe Superdomes. The FTT's you have ordered may be the ticket too.
Mark N
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From my limited experience with HWs in .22, some of them seem to have oversized bores. Meaning they like bigger pellets. If you order the FTT's in 5.53, I'd snag a can of the 5.55 size too. Can't hurt and they are handy to have around to help determine if new guns like "big" or "little" pellets. The Beeman FTS is popular with the .22 cal HW guys. Push a pellet of a known head size through the barrel with a dowel to see if it feels loose or tight. This can give you an indication of what head size to try. I just gave all my big pellets to a buddy of mine, or else I'd say bring her by and we'd try em out in your gun.
I bet the problem is your gun is dieseling. An ES of 37fps is not so good. A clean and relube can't hurt. I tore my new HW50s down and lubed it with Krytox and it was an immediate improvement. You can shoot heavy pellets to help burn off excess lube, but its much quicker to just tear it down and clean the gunk out. I'm right down the road from you in Decatur! If you decide to tear it down and need help gimme a shout I've got a 20 ton shop press that works great as a spring compressor. Come by some time and we will get it right. I've got some great squirrel hunting 5 minutes from the house too.
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Regarding pellets I have tried:
Note here; some of these pellets were shot in bad form, meaning I was using improper techniques...
Crosman Premier HP's (14.3) - Terrible accuracy no matter the hold...
Benjamin HP's (14.3) - These must be rebranded Crosman Premier HP's... terrible accuracy
H&N FTT (14.66) - These were sampled to me by the seller... 20 pellets not enough to learn the artillery hold on (wish I had these back).
RWS Super Points Extra (14.5) - These were sampled to me by the seller... Accuracy was okay, would like to have these 20-sampls back to see.
Beeman FTS (14.66) - These were sampled to me by the seller... As I began to become more comfortable with the artillery hold, these pellets shot pretty good... but were inconsistant.
Poly Mags (16.0) - These are the last of the sampled pellets sent to me by the seller... I still have these, and expect accuracy to be bad, just due to the design of the projectile. I will use these eventually.
But a surprise showing yesterday while I was shooting the R9, and that was the Crosman Premier Domes... I started the day shooting Crosman Premier HP's, and was getting frustrated with sub 3" groups, so I swapped to the Crosman Premier domes... after adjusting for a slight POI shift, I was shooting one holers!!! Just out of the blue, everything started to click... and two things I noticed; theCP's pellets fit nice and snug, and the diesel smell has all but gone away. I want to get in and tear the rifle down, and clean and relube (which is scary to me), and get busy get'n busy... High School Marching season is coming to a close, I want to start hunting next month... Until I am comfirtable with my accuracy, I don't dare take aim on a critter and pull the trigger... know what I mean?
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Get some H&N FTT's in the 5.53 head sizes and start over HW's in .22cal seem to shoot these well IMO ;) :P
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If it aint broke don't fix it. Might be good advice here. If you are getting one holers why tear it apart?
You will always have some settling in time after a tear down so I say leave it alone if it's working good
Mark N
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If it aint broke don't fix it. Might be good advice here. If you are getting one holers why tear it apart?
You will always have some settling in time after a tear down so I say leave it alone if it's working good
Mark N
So I have not serviced this rifle in any way since I received it, short running a few patched down the barrel... I have run quite a few pellets through her, and now I am wondering if there is any type of typical maitenance I should be performing regularly (i.e. lubing seals tightening screws etc.) You are right, if it is not broke, then leave well enough alone... I'm a tantative tinkerer anyway... like I said, the thought of tearing in scares me. I watched the youtube video, and there is a lot to contend with when tearing one of these break barrel air rifles down.
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their not that hard dude ;) also if you adjust the trigger properly and get the 2nd stage let off set right you'll see a bid difference in you accuracy! I know guy's think these triggers are pretty good out of the box but have really no idea of how good they really are until they get adjusted correctly :o in my experience with HW's they wont shoot as good as they can until adjust the trigger correctly and clean it up inside or tune it ;) trust me I have owned a ton of HW/Beeman guns over the yrs and have tuned them and have done just about everything you can think of to them ;D :P
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Yes the trigger needs to be adjusted. Not the best out of the box, but great once adjusted.
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You should check and tighten the stock screws on a regular basis. The two up front and the forward trigger guard screw should be tight. Don't kill them. The rear trigger guard screw should be just snug. It does not tighten to the stock. If your stock screws are loose you will almost certainly have accuracy problems.
For wipe down after shooting I use Ballistol on a micro fiber towel. It doesn't take much and I wipe off everything. Your breech seal should not need any lube. If it gets dirty you can wipe it with Ballistol but be sure it gets dried well. Can cause diesling to use a flammable on the seal. Appropriate seal lube is silicone grease but you really shouldn't need it. Just keep is clean and dry.
Varying opinions on barrel cleaning. I clean mine about every 1000 rounds. Pulled patches of Ballistol to soak and then dry patches until they come clean.
Once a year I pull the action out of the stock and wipe down the parts I can't get to with the stock on. I use ( you guessed it) Ballistol.
That's it.
Keep in mind that airguns are not firearms. There is no powder residue to corrode things like on a firearm. I use different lubricants and cleaners for firearms because of the necessity to clean the powder residue. Ballistol is safe for all components of you airgun so that is what I like to use.
HTH,
Mark N