GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Diana Airguns => Topic started by: HCAirgunner on September 19, 2013, 11:38:36 AM
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I know that pistols are harder to tune and such, but I am just wondering if anyone ever has. What can you do to a P5? Is there a more powerful spring that will fit it? Can anything be done to improve the shot cycle / cocking procedure?
I am just curious.
Chris
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I've done a DIY lube "tune" on 2 P5 Magnums but never tried to increase the power. The procedure included stripping them down,
deburring any sharp edges, inspecting the piston and breach seals, cleaning everything with alcohol, and applying Honda Moly 60 to all the
metal to metal contacts as well as the back of the piston seal. They were then reassembled. All the squeaks, squawks and metal on metal
grinding sounds that make you cringe, were eliminated. The cocking cycle was smoother but required the same amount of force
as before. The perceived torque from the firing cycle seemed less due to deburring the spring ends and applying some Moly to
them as well. It was well worth the effort to me. YMMV. I think that tuning a pistol like this is about the same as tuning a rifle as far a
difficulty. If you can do something like an RWS 34 you can do a P5 too.
If someone decides to do this I would suggest that they take some good quality, well lit, close up photos as they go along - particularly
of the trigger assembly. The photos will help remind you how to reassemble everything so you don't end up with spare parts. LOL!
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Agree with the last paragraph on putting back together. Go to Diana's site and get the correct parts view. Putting the trigger back together was the tricky part.
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Hi guys.
Nice to see that there s more people intersted in that Diana P5 that I also like very much.
To increase power&precision of the gun I would suggest you to buy the spring in the link below, it brings power up to 16 joules.
http://www.waffentipp.de/exportfeder-diana-fuer-modelle-24-25-70-p5-5g/a-7161/ (http://www.waffentipp.de/exportfeder-diana-fuer-modelle-24-25-70-p5-5g/a-7161/)
Best precision ammo for marksmanship on the P5 are achieved with DIANA "HIGH POWER" pellets (1.4grams)-the pellets are really made in Germany especially for the Diana Barrels.
They re a bit expensive but extremely accurate-link for ammo below ;
https://www.google.hr/search?q=diana+high+power+5.5&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=F4rCUqWcFsmhyQOSpYDYCA&ved=0CFMQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=827 (https://www.google.hr/search?q=diana+high+power+5.5&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=F4rCUqWcFsmhyQOSpYDYCA&ved=0CFMQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=827)
Best regards&enjoy your P5
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H&N make all of the Diana-branded pellets these days.
Paul in Liberty County
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That spring at http://www.waffentipp.de/exportfeder-diana-fuer-modelle-24-25-70-p5-5g/a-7161/ (http://www.waffentipp.de/exportfeder-diana-fuer-modelle-24-25-70-p5-5g/a-7161/)
shows 11,45 Euros so that is like $16 USD, according to Google. I am not sure how you would order it with a credit card or even what buttons to click on the web site. I think $16 seems reasonable but the shipping might be painful. Perhaps order 10 springs and sell them to get your shipping costs back.
Also 16 joules - 11.8 ft lbs. Nice shooter!
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Still finding the right set-up for mine top spring is .108 wire(OEM) next one is .120 wire .480 ID to tight on guide so I'm going with bottom spring .120 wire with .490 ID fits guide perfect just need to close the end and do some polishing and clean my junk room noticed dust bunnies on the springs had mine over 6 ft. lbs and thought that was good but 16 joules WOW like to see video on that gun in action.
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Just curious but at 16 Joules is there a lot of recoil and can you get accurate and consistent results with it?
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cocking force has my attention. I used a spring out of a cat 966 hydraulic valve in my 5g . it fit the guide snug and was just the same length as the original spring but I gained almost 42 fps and didn't notice any extra force to cock it. but its not the 5 magnum. however I like the spring I used cause its always under a load compressed , figured it could be cocked for periods like when im hunting and I want my pistol in hand in case a tree nutter shows up
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I couldn't find a video of a 16 joule P5's performance but I did run across a picture of a person cocking the 16 joule P5 ...
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H&N make all of the Diana-branded pellets these days.
Paul in Liberty County
Hi,
as far as Diana-branded pellets are concerned the ones we buy here in Croatia (both in .177 and .22 cal) are
simply named "Diana High Power" -on the back of the tin can it states that the manufacturer is "Dianawerk, Karlstasse 34, 76437 Rastatt".
200 Diabolo-Baracuda pellets in .22 cal and 500 Diabolo-Baracuda pellets in .177 cal
I am not sure and do not want to argue but in my opinion they are made by Diana since this is the precise location of the Diana factory.
After all, they are so accurate and fit the barrel so well (always a little more effort to insert them into chamber than any other pellet) that I do not really care who is producing them. ;)
Even though I am new on this forum and just came back to airgunning after over 20 years pause (I am 47yrs. old) I noticed that there are some differences between the European and U.S. airgun markets especially when it comes to European (read German) arms exported to the U.S. from Germany.
I am not even sure that the packaging is the same for Euro. and U.S markets.
Remains to be seen.My brother in law lives in Germany and I am going to Hamburg for Easter.Will try to find out as much as I can about this subject.
Best regards and a happy new year from Oxy..
EDIT : I tried to post photos of both pellets tin cans where it states where and by whom they are made as well as the original boxes of the Diana P5 pistol and Diana Panther 31 I just bought just to see if you guys in the U.S. have the same "packaging" or are they different.It said that the files are too big to fit as attachement.I will find another way.
Forgive my bad grammar and synthaxe btw...
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Regarding the "power" with a new spring for a P5.
On the site where they advertise this new spring that increases power it states 16 Joules max.I had no problem whatsoever ordering it but I am in Europe.Since I am not a gunsmith and prefere to have the work done by a real gunsmith, I simply went to the store where I bought it and had it replaced for a modest fee.
After reading the few posts below since I am no expert but also was curious do I really have the declared power provided by the new spring :( I will go by the end of the week to ask the gunsmith what is the real power with this new spring.Till then I can only share my experience "before/after" the new spring.For sure the power have noticeably increased but does it reach 16 Joules I doubt it.Nevertheless with lighter pellets such as RWS HOBBY
0.77 grams as well as the standard DIANA HIGH POWER (1.4 grams) the damage done to tin cans or hard plastic shampoo bottles increased by at least 50%.Not at all an scientific measurement but the only one until I ll have the precise velocities of the pellets (expect them in a week to come since I do not have the equipment to do it yet).As far as the recoil is concerned this pistol had a fairly strong one straight from the box and it has increased but just slightly (10-15% max) so if you are used to the recoil of this pistol it does not pose a serious problems.On the other hand the cocking effort has increased quite a bit but not to the point where your only option is to call Hulk or Superman ;) to help you do it.As for the accuracy it has remained unchanged but one need to shoot a certain number of pellets to get used to the new parameters.
Much more accurate and professional information to follow as soon as I ll talk to the gunsmith.He owes me one but it s another story.
Cheers and a happy new year....
@Victor..If you are interested in buying the above mentionned spring (I ll have to check if legal) from Europe I ll be glad to help you since they have now arrived in my local gunstore and the price is a little below 12 euros.I have a good friend working in the Croatian Postal service and I can check the prices of shipping with him, my guess is that it can t be that expensive since it s not that heavy or oversized.
n.b. the offer extends to anyone really interested.It might sound like a silly proposition but why should we not help each others if possible? :D
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Got it on my to-do list. Not interested in more power, just a deburr and a new seal. I've got a spare seal, may look at the spring and see if I have something that may work. Couldnt imagine the jolt that thing would have with 11fpe though.
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I think the pellets we get are the same that Diana offers in Europe, perhaps with different labeling / branding:
http://www.diana-airguns.de/index.php?id=124&L=1&width=1600&height=900 (http://www.diana-airguns.de/index.php?id=124&L=1&width=1600&height=900)
You could look at the specifications on this list and compare it to Diana/RWS pellets available here, and see what looks the same.
EDIT: No, on second glance, the RWS pellets offered by Umarex and other places are not the same as the ones on the Diana website. The ones on the Diana website look like re-branded H&Ns, as H2Rider pointed out.
Although, at first glance, there seem to be significant differences between Euro and US pellets. For instance:
DIANA MAGNUM GREEN
Lead-free, lightweight high-velocity pellet with exceptional accuracy for competition and hunting.
Cal. 4,5 mm/.177“
200 St./Pack.; 5,56 grs
vs.
RWS HyperMAX .177 Cal, 5.2 Grains, Pointed, Lead-Free, 100ct
.177 caliber
5.2 grains
Pointed
Lead-free
Individually packed to prevent deformity
Superior penetration
30% faster than standard lead pellets
100 pellets
These look to be the same, but the European version is slightly heavier (5.56 gr, vs. 5.2) and you get 200 pellets, vs. only 100 in the U.S. packaging.
Hmmm... those magnum greens on the Diana site do look like the H&Ns on Pyramyd Air's website...
H&N Field Target Trophy Green .177 Cal, Lead-Free, 5.56 Grains, Domed, 300ct
.177 caliber (lead-free)
5.56 grains
Domed
300 pellets
Although these are lead-free pellets, the tape that goes around the tin has warnings about the hazards of lead exposure. Be assured that the contents of the tin are, indeed, lead-free. This is just the standard tape H&N uses on all its pellet tins.
And it looks like the U.S. version gives you 300 pellets, rather than 200.
Hmmm... Interesting to know.
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Hi Chris,
Interesting analytics regarding the pellets for Euro.vs.U.S. market.Read it over a few times.The differences are not enormous but nevertheless can not be ignored.One has to wonder where lies the logic in that since we all know that there has to be a reason for these differences.
If that is the situation regarding simply the pellets I really do wonder is there any minor or major differences between the actual weapons sold in the U.S. and the Euro. markets.I guess I ll know a bit more after a talk in my local gunstore and much more after Easter when I am due to visit my brother in law in Germany.
Since I always liked Diana products I ll do my best to keep you informed.
I already asked a friend in Germany (many of my compatriots live and work there for mostly better wages)to send me all the catalogues and all stuff related to Diana if possible...
In the meantime wish you lots of fun with your pistols...
Cheers,
Sanjin....
p.s. what are the lightest pellets you have used with your pistol?
When I got the new stronger spring the lightest were RWS HOBBY 0.77 grams but I am going to try something lighter (round 0.5 grams) just to try it out.Did not try hollowpoint ammo neither with the new spring.
Any suggestions for the light ammo?
p.p.s. Shortly I ll receive the original German catalogue for all Diana arms boxed and unboxed...I can scan it and forward it to you if you are interested.
n.b. just found this site, since you like Dianas also I think you might find it interesting (for me it was)
http://www.sportwaffen-schneider.de/product_info.php/products_id/21479 (http://www.sportwaffen-schneider.de/product_info.php/products_id/21479)
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Well, I don't really mind re-branded ammo, as long as it performs well. I have never used H&N ammo, but that is about to change. I ordered some H&H Field Target .22 cal. pellets, with a head diameter of 5.55mm, which is the most snug fit, because I saw somewhere (maybe GTA, maybe elsewhere, can't remember) that the Crosman Titans shoot really tight groups with the 5.55mm pellets. If it performs well in the Crosman, I will probably start using them in my other guns as well.
In my P5, I normally shoot the 8.2 grain Meisterkugelns. (I thought about getting the pistol version of those pellets, which are 7.0 grains, but I tend to favor heavier ammo.) I have noticed that the heavies seem to be more accurate. The 8.2 Meisterkugelns shoot incredibly well in the P5. Very accurate.
I have tested the Hypermax (5.2 grain / 0,34 grams) and the Crosman SSP (4.0 grain / not sure what gram weight they are, perhaps around 0,25?) in the P5. The results of these tests can be found on my blog, here:
http://thescientificairgunner.blogspot.com/2011/11/diana-p5-magnum-second-range-test.html
If I wanted to shoot light on a regular basis, I would probably not go lower than 5.0 grains; the SSP (4 grain) pellets were flying out of the P5 at an average of 785 fps, but considering the normal weight pellets (8.2 grain MKs) averaged only 507 fps, I can imagine that the super-light stuff has to be putting a lot of extra wear and tear on the spring. I don't think the extra power is worth shortening the spring life.
In case you're wondering, the other pellets I tested (and the results of those tests) can be found here:
http://thescientificairgunner.blogspot.com/2011/11/pellet-data-chart-for-diana-p5-magnum.html
Yes, I would love a copy of the German catalog. Message me, and I will shoot you my email address.
By the way, here is a post I made about the accuracy of the MK pellets:
http://thescientificairgunner.blogspot.com/2013/08/another-range-day.html
Happy Reading! :)
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Hi Chris.(you ve got a PM)
Thank s God Friday s coming so I could read all of your posts and blogs during weekend with no rush (hate to be in a hurry when reading).It s now 1.00 am in Croatia and I got to wake up for work in some 5 hours so this will be a short post just to thank you for your kind reply.BTW, have you tried out the RWS SUPERPOINT EXTRA FIELD LINE (0.94grams=14.5gr in .22 cal-quite expensive but worth every penny or Kuna that is our local currency since we just entered in the Eurozone and Euros have not been introduced yet) these superpoint extra are really something else at least my pistol sorts of love them.....
Funny that the word KUNA means Mink in English , in middle age and up to late XVIII century there were lot s of minks in Croatia and their furs were used to trade so when we begun to mint coins and print money it was named Kunas.Take the Dianas and let hunt Kunas (just joking lol)
p.s. below you ll find an interesting link regarding GAMO range and specs of their pellets in .177 cal , .22 cal
they definitely have some interesting stuff.
Cheers ,
hope to hear from you soon...
Oxy...
EDIT : -> here is the link regarding GAMO pellets with all the specifications ;
http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/gamo-pellet-characteristics.htm (http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/gamo-pellet-characteristics.htm)
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Hey Oxy,
Do you know what the coil count is for the 16 joule Diana spring?
I couldn't get it from Waffentipp, because they won't ship to the U.S. At all. For any price.
However, Vortek in the U.S. says they have a similar spring, but before they say for sure, they'd like to know the coil count.
The spring that they believe is the equivalent costs $15.00, so I am pretty sure we're talking about the same thing. Here is the link to the one they believe is the match:
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/airgun%20Springs/Air-Gun-Springs?product_id=106
It also says on their website that they will cut springs to custom coil count if requested. I'm feeling pretty confident about it :)
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HI Chris, just read your post, will get back to you in a few hours, I am in a terrible rush right now, wait for my answer...it s important that you do not buy the wrong one
regards,
Sanjin
EDIT : Chris , you ve got PM
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Diana P5 Magnum .22 cal successfully suped up with a new spring. (Exportfeder) to a 9.2 Foot-Pounds/12.47 Joules! :D
Even though Diana advertised maximum power of this replacement spring up to 16 joules it is obviously not the case but the result approaching 12.5 joules for a pistol (even with a very long barrel like the P5) is excellent in my book.
The pellets used for the testing were RWS HOBBY 11.9 grains.Average speed in fps was 590 after 30 pellets.
The testing took place indoors at some 20 degrees centigrade and 55% humidity.
The muzzle energy we calculated was therefore 9.2 Foot pounds or 12.47 Joules.
The recoil augmented slightly, the cocking effort by at least 30% but it is still manageable.I am just breaking in my new panther 31 classic and that is some real cocking effort :P....
Since I could not find any material on Youtube covering a suped up P5 I will film this shooter in action because it is not only a beauty but also a very powerfull piece that deserves to be filmed in action.
Kind regards from Croatia
Sanjin
link to the spring used to increase muzzle energy ;
http://www.waffentipp.de/exportfeder-diana-fuer-modelle-24-25-70-p5-5g/a-7161/ (http://www.waffentipp.de/exportfeder-diana-fuer-modelle-24-25-70-p5-5g/a-7161/)
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Wow, the Hatsan I have only puts out 520 fps / 8 ft lbs with the exact same pellets.
That's amazing. See here:
http://thescientificairgunner.blogspot.com/2013/10/discoveries-hobbies-and-3-inch-metal.html?m=1
If I could get the Dianas shooting at that level, I would be extremely happy.
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If you manage to find the right spring ( with the same specs. that is) I am confident you will, on the other hand I had it done by a gunsmith so I am wondering does the caliber yours being .177 and mine .22 plays any role in the final muzzle energy.(silly question but I am more of a shooter then techician) but am getting interested more and more in the tech. aspect .....
Next project is increasing power of my Panther 31 classic by min 35% -40% by the gear in the link below :
http://www.sportwaffen-schneider.de/product_info.php/products_id/21479 (http://www.sportwaffen-schneider.de/product_info.php/products_id/21479)
Will provide details for this one and open a separate topic for that
Video of my P5 suped up in actionn this weekend....
EDIT : VIDEO OF DIANA P5 MAGNUM SUPED UP WITH ORIGINAL DIANA SPRING WILL BE AVAILABLE AROUND 15th OF FEBRUARY DUE TO LACK OF TIME AND SPACE TO DO IT RIGHT.
Kind regards from Croatia...
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Well, folks, I have some news: the local gunsmith, who has both of my Diana P5s, is soldering on a picatinny rail onto each one, and mounting red dots on them. They should be finished by the middle of next week. I will post pictures when I get them back :)
Chris
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Well, folks, I have some news: the local gunsmith, who has both of my Diana P5s, is soldering on a picatinny rail onto each one, and mounting red dots on them. They should be finished by the middle of next week. I will post pictures when I get them back :)
Chris
Nice .....post as soon the photos as possible....
What about power/spring replacement?....waiting for the count?
Will let you know as soon as I receive the springs....
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Wow, the Hatsan I have only puts out 520 fps / 8 ft lbs with the exact same pellets.
That's amazing. See here:
http://thescientificairgunner.blogspot.com/2013/10/discoveries-hobbies-and-3-inch-metal.html?m=1
If I could get the Dianas shooting at that level, I would be extremely happy.
Price to pay for the increase in power-cca. 20% increase in recoil...
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I think they got offended; they told me to count the coils in the picture, and then I pointed out the disclaimer below that states "picture is for general display purposes only; actual product may vary." I then asked them to go get one from their inventory and physically count the coils, and they never replied. Ha ha.
So I guess I will have to wait until you get your springs :)
Chris
P.S. On the pics: will do!