GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Benjamin Airguns => Topic started by: shootstraight on December 04, 2010, 02:12:02 AM
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Guys, I'm starting to loose hope. I am 250 pellets into my gun after changing the piston seal (so about 1750 pellets total) and I am still shooting a 6" group. In ten shots I have 1 or 2 high 3 or 4 low and the rest on top of each other slightly off from where I'm aiming. What is this? Do any of you know?
The 1 or 2 high I might be pulling because I've been shooting quickly but what about the rest? I'm shooting a triangle pattern
Also My shots seem to gravitate to being low. I sight in shoot for a while and I'm low again. My power feels off from yesterday which felt off from the day before. I can see my pellets sticking in the wood I'm shooting where I couldn't see them before. My recoil also varres just slightly. This gun has acted this way since i took it out of the box. Worst of all, I get some great accuracy then its drasticly gone. It makes me want to keep the gun but it just will not do this every time like it should. Finally I know its not me, I'm shooting 3 distinct tiny patterns 4" apart.
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Heck with it. I'm shooting the last 250 pellets I have and if it doesn't improve the back it goes. What a drag.
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What distance are you shooting at and also are you using a rest. Mine was doing the same thing but I was using a rest at 10yds dime groups were the norm but a 20yds it was all over the place. I went back and thought about what I was doing at 10yds, I had the scope at 4x but when I went to 20yds I moved it up to 10x it changed the POI and also made it more hold sensitive, it was acting the same way you described your is doing now, I could get some in the black even some touching but then go all over again "dang" thing almost drove me crazy. I got rid of the rest that I was using and turned the scope back to 4x used the artillery hold with my left hand about 4 inches in front of the trigger pressed against my shoulder and started shooting and the problem was gone, now I get dime size groups at 20yds if I do my part.....hope this helps....
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What about the scope? Are you using the same one that came with the gun? It very possibly is a bad scope. But you have fought this thing and I commend you for that. But due to the frustration level and the amount of time you have already invested in this gun, I'd suggest just contacting Crosman and ship it back. Ask them to set up and shoot the replacement to verify it's accuracy.
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
8)
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When you installed the new seal,....
1. Did you deburr the edges of the cocking slot first ?
2. Did you thoroughly clean out the tube.
3. Did you use a shim between the tube's end cap threads and the seal so that the seal didn't touch the threads ?
Do you have another scope, that you know is good, that you can swap onto the Trail ?
Paul
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What distance are you shooting at and also are you using a rest. Mine was doing the same thing but I was using a rest at 10yds dime groups were the norm but a 20yds it was all over the place. I went back and thought about what I was doing at 10yds, I had the scope at 4x but when I went to 20yds I moved it up to 10x it changed the POI and also made it more hold sensitive, it was acting the same way you described your is doing now, I could get some in the black even some touching but then go all over again "dang" thing almost drove me crazy. I got rid of the rest that I was using and turned the scope back to 4x used the artillery hold with my left hand about 4 inches in front of the trigger pressed against my shoulder and started shooting and the problem was gone, now I get dime size groups at 20yds if I do my part.....hope this helps....
Thanks Jerry. I'll try it today. Today is a new day and I'll find some optimism some how.
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A chrony would go a long way to determining whether or not it was the scope or the power giving the problem. But it would seem to me that the scope is jumping around in a "zone", giving you that triangular pattern. The XL's are scope killers as are most of the magnums. As far as the variations in penetration, I've has pieces of pine that have had grain structures as tough as ironwood, struck in one spot it goes right through a 1/4" to the side, only penetrates to the skirt( with the 1100). You might try a penetration test with an old phone book or get a chrony, it would be money well spent. I resisted one for a time, but realized as I was getting more deeply involved that I had little choice. That is; if I was to save any grey hairs I have left! ;D
pv
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When you installed the new seal,....
1. Did you deburr the edges of the cocking slot first ? YES. VERY CAREFULLY
2. Did you thoroughly clean out the tube? ABSOLELUTELY. BRAKE CLEANER
3. Did you use a shim between the tube's end cap threads and the seal so that the seal didn't touch the threads ? YES, SODA CAN LIKE OTHERS HAVE SHOWN.
Do you have another scope, that you know is good, that you can swap onto the Trail ? I DO NOT.
Paul
Paul, I have been thinking/hoping "scope" or "rings" all morning before I saw this post. I just have never heard of a scope letting go like that(up/down). Its always side to side, I shoot a lot of Iron sights and I think any of my rifle scope might be destroyed by my XL1100. I won't risk it. Plus, I have never "failed" a scope. I don't know where to start judging it.
In my shooting, I'm not floating around the target much. I'm hitting 3 distinct dime size areas. Like a triangle. I think the high shot is me pulling, the on target (almost) is my shooting, and the 4" low is the gun (or scope???).
PS I know I did the seal right
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A chrony would go a long way to determining whether or not it was the scope or the power giving the problem. But it would seem to me that the scope is jumping around in a "zone", giving you that triangular pattern. The XL's are scope killers as are most of the magnums. As far as the variations in penetration, I've has pieces of pine that have had grain structures as tough as ironwood, struck in one spot it goes right through a 1/4" to the side, only penetrates to the skirt( with the 1100). You might try a penetration test with an old phone book or get a chrony, it would be money well spent. I resisted one for a time, but realized as I was getting more deeply involved that I had little choice. That is; if I was to save any grey hairs I have left! ;D
pv
I'm think chrony after Christmas but thats 3 weeks from now ya know? I'm sorry, I can't leave the gun alone that long! Would 2000 pellets break the scope. Thats where I'm at
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Shootstraight, I thought mine was the scope to so I went and bought another but it was doing the same thing, that's when I went back to 10yds got rid of the rest and backed the scope back down. here is a tip that helps me, while you are looking at the target through scope just before you shoot, close your eyes for about 3 or 4 seconds then open them and see if you are still on target if not then there is some kind of pressure taking you off target that you are unaware of, make adjustments and keep doing this until you can open your eyes and it is still on target....hope this helps....Jerry
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Shootstraight, I thought mine was the scope to so I went and bought another but it was doing the same thing, that's when I went back to 10yds got rid of the rest and backed the scope back down. here is a tip that helps me, while you are looking at the target through scope just before you shoot, close your eyes for about 3 or 4 seconds then open them and see if you are still on target if not then there is some kind of pressure taking you off target that you are unaware of, make adjustments and keep doing this until you can open your eyes and it is still on target....hope this helps....Jerry
Sound like great advice. I'll try it as soon as I start shooting today for the next 250 pellets. Also, anything I can do NOT to buy a new scope, I'm doing that today!
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The scopes are warranted by Crosman, call them and send it back and they'll likely send you an illuminated one for nothing. I sent one back and asked if I could swap it for a fee for the 4-16X40 which most have had a bit better luck with. They gave it to me as an even swap as there is no price difference on their site. It's been great so far. I've got a M-rod on my Christmas Wish List, I've got a feeling I'm going to find out why its called a wish list!
LOL :'( ;D
pv
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You might want to try a buch of different pellets too, if you have not already. Most of my springers will have a definitive favorite and the worst pellets of the group will throw crazy fliers in the realm of what you are mentioning. When i really started to take note of the differences between different pellets, i bought a digital micrometer and a electronic scale. I was amazed to see the differences in size and weight between certain pellets,, namely crosmans. The pellets that were closest in size and weight were of course the most consistent. These, for me were usually jsb and rws pellets. Thats about all i'll shoot now. Funny how the marauder will throw anything you feed it with accuracy but a springer just is so much pickier. I wonder how much of that is due to the choked barrel on the Mrod? J
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Yes, a scope can go bad in less than 2000 pellets, especially on a hard hitter like the XL's.
The original Gamo scope that came with my 22 Whisper went bad within a few hundred, and then the Leapers mini swat I replaced it with started going bad about 1000 pellets - maybe less ???
And the Leapers didn't just die outright, it got progressively worse as I continued to shoot it. The Whisper has an Air Venturi gas ram, but nothing near the recoil power of the XL.
When the Leapers started going bad, it would group two or three, then change POI and group two or three again a few inches away at 20 yards. And, it wasn't always side to side grouping changes. Very frustrating because this was happening while I was still getting used to the gun and I couldn't be sure (then) if it was me, gun, pellets, or scope. The more I shot it, the more extream the POI changes got as the scope's condition went steadily down hill.
I put an old Bushnell Sportview 3-9 on the Whisper and the group POI stays where I adjust it to. Then I was able to find that it REALY likes JSB Jumbos. It does it's best with the Jumbo RS, but still gives good groups with Jumbo Exacts, Express, and Heavies.
My XL also likes Jumbos, but with Predators it can make one ragged hole at 30 yards if I do what it likes.
And as JonnyRed mentioned, Crosman CPHP's are not as uniform. The XL will cluster them so that it kinda looks like it's trying to do differant groups. I noticed the clusters have more to do with how pellets of similar fit (pellet size) go into the breach. The snugger fitting ones being better groups, but all the CPHP's I have are a loose fitting compared to other pellets I've tried it it. About half the CPHP's are so loose in my XL that they drop into the breach, I don't have to push them in at all if the barrel is pointed down while loading.
The JSB's and Predators fit snugly and uniformly in my XL. The Preds being a slightly tighter fit than the JSB's, which I guess, may be why it does so well with them ?
Paul
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My new XL1100 was shooting fist size groups at 30 yards. After about 1500 shots or so. The frustration was agonizing. Especially after having already sent one back to the manufacturer. They had promised that this one had been accuracy tested but they did not send any targets or any other documentation that they had tested it. So, I dont know. Then I installed a grtIII trigger and went through a whole new set of problems with all my shots being extremely low. By low, I mean over a foot low at 10 yards. I absolutely know that the trigger job had nothing to do with it, but here I was, faced with yet another set back. After reading everything that these guys in here suggested and getting tons of super info from them, I took off and remounted the scope. I also cleaned the barrell and completely started over tryin to sight in. With a very limited range of pellets to choose from, I quickly narrowed them down to the ones that did the best out of the few I have. I still hope to try many more to see if I can find (THE) pellet for this gun. But I just shot a 12 shot group from 30 yards and can cover 9 with a quarter in the bullseye and of the other 3, 2 of them are less than a half inch out and 1 is about a inch out. The only thing I did different was to move from one shooting bench to another. Go figure! This was a few days ago and I havent been able to shoot since then. Actually, I am kinda leary to take the gun out of the case in fear that something may have changed again. I know that this probably doesent help you much but as you can see, I feel your pain and good luck.
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Thank you all for the insite. I've put the gun down for a few days to preserve my sanity
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This is outstanding information regardless of the brand of air gun in question. Thank you all for the time and information you have contributed. I just ordered an XL 1100 and hope it is not related to shootstraight's problem child. This is a great forum. Thanks