GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: bildio on September 04, 2013, 09:38:42 AM
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The manual for my Baikal IZH-46M says to lubricate the air compression chamber with a high-flashpoint oil designed specifically for use inside an air compression chamber --- lubricate chamber & seal.
Would Crosman Silicone Chamber Oil be okay, or is there a more appropriate product?
Any product recommendations, & where to purchase would be appreciated.
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I rebuild the IZH 46M with Upgraded 90 durometer seals and I give each customer a Bottle of secret sauce with each repair.
http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/secret-sauce-small-dripper-2-fl-oz-p/m1ss2po.htm (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/secret-sauce-small-dripper-2-fl-oz-p/m1ss2po.htm)
I've seen several 46M's get seized up running pellgumoil. It leaves an amazing level of goo inside guns. It is antique airgun lubrication but it is everywhere so it is gonna get used. It requires a wire wheel to get it off internal parts it has glued together.
Chamber oil is for springers and I'm not sure I would even put it in those. Spring gun lubing should be done on assembly for the most part.
Secret Sauce is Modern Oil technology with Anti Wear (AW)properties. Pump Airguns get happy when lubed with the Sauce.
This is blatant product promotion because I believe this is the best stuff you can use. It has exceeded the manufacturers & my expectations. It has proved itself in Hydraulic systems running 5 times the normally expected service intervals.
TimmyMac1
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Secret Sauce sounds good.
The 46M instructions say to lubricate the compression seal & put a few drops of oil into the compression transfer port.
Can the Secret Sauce be used for the transfer port too?
Is the Valve Upgrade Kit "easy" to install?
I'm new at this, & don't want to mess up the pistol.
Thanks very much for the reply, Timmymac1
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I agree with Tim about the Pellgunoil. It is gummy stuff, and I would stay away from it. I have been using the RWS Chamber oil in my 46, and it works just fine. It is very slick stuff, and only takes a light film. Compression is excellent, and it seems to last a long time as well. 8)
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I rebuild the IZH 46M with Upgraded 90 durometer seals and I give each customer a Bottle of secret sauce with each repair.
http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/secret-sauce-small-dripper-2-fl-oz-p/m1ss2po.htm (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/secret-sauce-small-dripper-2-fl-oz-p/m1ss2po.htm)
I've seen several 46M's get seized up running pellgumoil. It leaves an amazing level of goo inside guns. It is antique airgun lubrication but it is everywhere so it is gonna get used. It requires a wire wheel to get it off internal parts it has glued together.
Chamber oil is for springers and I'm not sure I would even put it in those. Spring gun lubing should be done on assembly for the most part.
Secret Sauce is Modern Oil technology with Anti Wear (AW)properties. Pump Airguns get happy when lubed with the Sauce.
This is blatant product promotion because I believe this is the best stuff you can use. It has exceeded the manufacturers & my expectations. It has proved itself in Hydraulic systems running 5 times the normally expected service intervals.
TimmyMac1
Well I hope my Silver Streak that I gave you to steroid, at Morro Bay, that I had been lubing with pellgunoil before I found about your Secret Sauce won't be to hard to clean.
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I agree with Tim about the Pellgunoil. It is gummy stuff, and I would stay away from it. I have been using the RWS Chamber oil in my 46, and it works just fine. It is very slick stuff, and only takes a light film. Compression is excellent, and it seems to last a long time as well. 8)
Do you use it (RWS Chamber Oil) on both the seal & in the transfer port too?
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Secret Sauce sounds good.
The 46M instructions say to lubricate the compression seal & put a few drops of oil into the compression transfer port.
Can the Secret Sauce be used for the transfer port too?
Basically it wicks about everywhere eventually. I put it on the pivots and the piston and it finds it's way to everything. Pump systems need to be putting a small amount of lube through the system constantly to keep the debris and moisture pumped flowing out the barrel. Otherwise all the debris turns into a dirt clod.
Fitting the upgrade kit is no harder than putting factory seals in. In just lasts forever(so far). It comes with the sauce.
Tim
Is the Valve Upgrade Kit "easy" to install?
I'm new at this, & don't want to mess up the pistol.
Thanks very much for the reply, Timmymac1
I do the Upgrade for $75 plus shipping if you are not handy. It takes tools and skills. I never try to judge others ability. They know best I'm sure. I sell a lot of them and only a few come back for a punt.
TimmyMac1
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I do the Upgrade for $75 plus shipping if you are not handy. It takes tools and skills. I never try to judge others ability. They know best I'm sure. I sell a lot of them and only a few come back for a punt.
TimmyMac1
I'm currently satisfied with the pistol's performance. Just want to do PM at this time. Trying to decide whether to get just the Secret Sauce or the Upgrade kit for a future install.
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I've seen the pellgun oil turn shellac myself, never using it again. Except for right now as a target! ;D
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A lot of folks have said that Pellgun oil is nothing more than 30W non-detergent.
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$4 for secret sauce seems like a very good price.
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Put me down for some sauce to. I found a use for my pellgun oil though.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/TDubleDs/101_2124_zps729466d7.jpg) (http://s471.photobucket.com/user/TDubleDs/media/101_2124_zps729466d7.jpg.html)
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I ordered the upgrade kit. I'll use the Secret Sauce for PM, & install the valve when the seal needs to be replaced.
I found this link that shows how to replace the seal. It's the lower download ---.exe file.
http://airgunenthusiast.weebly.com/replacing-a-baikal-izh-46-piston-seal.html (http://airgunenthusiast.weebly.com/replacing-a-baikal-izh-46-piston-seal.html)
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I ordered some secret sauce right after posting that Pellgun oil pic. So I ordered around 8pm Thursday and it was in the mail this afternoon on Saturday. Mac 1 is in California and I'm in Kentucky. That's incredible shipping. A+ service!
Thanks!
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I agree with Tim about the Pellgunoil. It is gummy stuff, and I would stay away from it. I have been using the RWS Chamber oil in my 46, and it works just fine. It is very slick stuff, and only takes a light film. Compression is excellent, and it seems to last a long time as well. 8)
Do you use it (RWS Chamber Oil) on both the seal & in the transfer port too?
I took the pistol apart, cleaned out the old Pellgunoil, and then lightly lubed the seal and chamber with the RWS Chamber Oil. I haven't shot enough to relube through the transfer port yet, but, yes, I would lube there as well with the Chamber Oil. Sorry I didn't respond sooner!
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TimmyMac1,
Please confirm that the installation of the upgrade kit parts go in this order: thick seal, thin seal, valve with bevel toward piston.
Also, is the original seal replaced by the two seals in the kit, i.e., one seal is replaced by two seals?
Thanks,
Bill
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That is the sequence. And yes we replace the original 50 durometer U-Cup seal with two orings that are 90 durometer O-rings.
One of the things I want people to understands is you never need to place lubricant directly in a pump systems chamber. The wicking will essentially have the Sauce going everywhere on it's own plus the system is pushing the lube into the valve with the pumping of the gun. There is no point in dumping oil in the valve, as the oil will not compress and displacing valve volume with oil can stress the system. Lube the piston pivots of the lever hinge arm and the piston seal itself. Very little goes a long way and for a while it will be cleansing the other lubes out of the system gradually.
When people talk chambers they are also talking about lubing Spring guns. I never used Sauce in the Chambers of springers. I never put anything in the chamber of springers as it will light off most of the time. Spring gun lubing is done on assembly. It stresses out springers to fire them with a 3 inch flame coming out the barrel.
I've never tested the Sauce long term on anything but the Steroids. I figure if it can manage the wear on those it is the bomb on anything pump-up. Single or Multi it will all but eliminate wear. I would not hesitate to use it on any CO2 gun but I would not put it in a spring gun chamber. I would not put anything there. Beeman started that Nonsense and as far as I know the Barracuda Ether injected HW and the Mendoza guns are the only guns that were ever intended to dump stuff in the piston chamber.
It is a source of power but so inconsistent it is laughable.
When pressed on the issue of lubricant being dumped in the chamber Hans from HW recommended 2 drops every 10,000 rounds and the springs normally last 5-6000. So two drops approximately every other spring. I think it was Hermann the Germans' idea of a Joke.
TimmyMac1
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what about a NO FLASHPOINT oil like Krytox in a springer chamber
That is what I use for springers, but they are talking about pumpers and Tim's oil works best.......