GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: NickB79 on August 09, 2013, 10:21:11 PM
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I decided to try out some really cheap wadcutter and pointed Daisy pellets in my Benjamin Trail NP. For $5/500. How bad could they be, right?
For a baseline, CPHP's will shoot 1/2" at 15 yards. In comparison, the Daisy pointed pellets were scattering 5 shots in 1" groups. Ugh.
The wadcutters showed more promise. They were cutting ragged one-hole groups! With my hopes up, I moved the target stand to 30 yards. Bad idea. I fire a shot, and WHOOP! The sound of the impact on the wood is twice what it usually is. Fired another shot, that one is 2" away from the last one. Fired 3 more shots, and 1 more of those was unusually loud. 2" group, no good. Fired another 5-shot group with CPHP's to double-check, and those were under 3/4".
Walking up to the target stand, I can see the silhouette of the wadcutters in two of the shots. Aha! That explains that loud impact sound. I then dug the flattened pellets out of the wood with my knife; they didn't even penetrate the 1/4" board I tack the targets to. Now, my question is: why?
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Cause they're junk. I don't think Daisy is exactly doing R&D into creating a superior airgun pellet (hence the $5/500), they just make pellets for kids to shoot at random stuff.
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The phantom knows.
Richard
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Besides the Daisy pellets being cheap junk, wad cutters where only design to cut clean holes at about 10 meters with low power guns. They where not design to travel any great distance.
Pushing a wad cutter past (fps and distance) what they were design for makes them unstable.
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everybody is correct :)
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As stated wadcuters are made for 10 meter matches essentially. As their name suggests they cut a nice round wad from the paper target for clear visibility of a hit. Having a large flat nose makes them less than aerodynamic so they destabilize very quickly and viola, there's your keyholing.
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Cause they're junk. I don't think Daisy is exactly doing R&D into creating a superior airgun pellet (hence the $5/500), they just make pellets for kids to shoot at random stuff.
That JUNK statement, simply isn't warranted JR. The pellets don't fit well with that rifle. Try some in the lower powered daisy rifles, and the results will be quite different.
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Oh, I think it's plenty warranted. Pellets that measure 3 or 4 thousandths undersized (~0.1mm) and have many molding defects, flashing, etc. have properly earned the right to be called junk. Here are measurements from 3 different types of Daisy pellets from my log:
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If you compared it to numerous barrels, and could say there isn't a fit possible, it would be valid. The point being the fit to the barrel. They may not work for your rifle, but that surely doesn't constitute "junk". I personally had decent fit and 10m groups, with the wadcutter in my 953, (Same with the old TF wadcutters), and I didn't find them undersized as your data. Of course, it's subject to the mic and operator. The Bottom line was they weren't poor shooting in the 953.
Perhaps it would be better to say, "they didn't work for my airgun"?
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If you compared it to numerous barrels, and could say there isn't a fit possible, it would be valid.
Well, they shot horribly in 3 rifles. A low/med-powered Daisy 880 pneumatic, a Beeman RS2 springer, and a QB79 on HPA which is not pellet-picky in the slightest. In my estimation, that is enough of a sampling to be valid.
Heads so undersized, rattling back and forth against the rifling as they accelerate toward the muzzle and emerging into the world without proper spin stabilization, have no real chance of delivering acceptable consistency (accuracy). No rifled barrel designed for a 0.177" pellet can properly stabilize a pellet that is 0.173" or 0.174" in diameter. It's just that simple. You might as well be shooting a smooth bore, in which case you may get acceptable results at only 10 yards.
I maintain they are a cheap pellet for dinking around, shooting soda cans in the back yard. They are not for serious target shooting at any appreciable range and certainly not something that a responsible hunter would use for small game hunting. True, if I were to buy some new tins today they might be different. But that is the very nature of cheap pellets: a lack of consistency and quality control. For anyone taking the time to sight in a rifle with an intent of long-term airgunning enjoyment is sure to be disappointed the next time he/she picks up a new tin of pellets and finds them to behave entirely differently than last time.
So while one man's trash (junk) is another man's treasure, they obviously don't meet Nick's expectations nor mine. That's all I'm trying to say.
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I learned about using the, "I didn't have luck", with any ABC specific item; rather than bashing or posting something that might mistake "me" as thinking I'm the "be all, end all" authority on the item. Keeps posts short too.
Nick: Wadcutters should have a "10m use or you are on your own" sticker on them! LOL :D
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i agree that most daisy pellets are not made for mag springers. i tried and failed. however if you look on a tin of winchester round nose pellets (9.8g) the name daisy is there on the back and these are real nail drivers in my cfr.
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I have tried daisy pellets in all my guns, just to see if they shoot any good at all. I have not had success with any daisy's (pointed or wadcutters) in any of my guns...
To me, they're junk ;D
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my stoeger digests cheep daisy pointed hunting pellets real good. only gun I own that likes them. even my $17.50 pioner trining rifle don't like them .
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I think the Daisy pellets are made for lower powered airguns. Never had too much success with them....the round nose ones are pretty hard though. Penetrates pretty deep.
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Thanks for the info, guys. I knew that wadcutters lost accuracy at longer ranges, but never saw one out-and-out keyhole before. As for the quality debate, these pellets actually looked good and shot VERY well out to 15 yards in my rifle (like I said, ragged hole groups).
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Cause they're junk. I don't think Daisy is exactly doing R&D into creating a superior airgun pellet (hence the $5/500), they just make pellets for kids to shoot at random stuff.
That JUNK statement, simply isn't warranted JR. The pellets don't fit well with that rifle. Try some in the lower powered daisy rifles, and the results will be quite different.
Sorry, plenty others seemed in agreement. ??? You're entitled to your opinion as am I. :D
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My 1377 loves Daisy HP. No idea why, and I've tested many other brands with it. Can't complain I guess, they're cheap.
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Now My Crosman 2289 loves Daisy point .22 cal pellets, and my Crosman 66 loves .177 cal Daisy Pointed, as well as Winchester .177 Pointed (made by daisy if I am not mistaken).
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the Daisy pointed only do well to 15 yards in my 853 which is also able to shoot the Daisy wads.
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Strange I should run across this thread today.
Last night I cleaned the barrel on my 24 inch .177 2400 crosman.
I laid out my tin of cp boxed pellets (easier to seal up the tin at the range, and only carry 250 or so to the range rather than the whole box.) on the kitchen table.
My wife in setting the table for breakfast moved them.
I went to the range, and realized I was missing my tin.
The only pellets I had on hand was a 300 round container of Daisy pellets, (100 pointed, 100 wadcutters, and 100 hollow points) I had bought them for $3 to try them out.
The rifle is sighted in at 50 yards with crosman premier domes from the box.
When I fired the first shot from a clean barrel, I watched my pellet hit the X ring,
I thought Oh yea, I am going to like this!
The next pellet hit the 8 ring (a 2 inch black) and for the next 30 pointed pellets, I never even touched the black again.
Some of them even missed the 8.5x11 paper. At 50 yards.
I moved closer, to 25 yards, and went to the wadcutters.
They were accurate enough to hit 7.62x39 (sks/ak47) empty hulls reliably.
I shot all 100 of the wadcutters, accurate enough for pinky sized targets at 25 yards.
I moved to the hollow points.
They were accurate enough for empty shotgun shells out to 25-35 yards reliably..
I tried the pointed pellets again, at 25 yards at the same shells I had been hitting, and the impacts were all over the place.
So apparently, my gun kind of likes the HP's, I would buy more of the wadcutters for backyard fun.
But won't waste any more of the pointed pellets in this rifle.
Here are the photos of the pellets, and the nice 3 divider carrier, (I like this carrier)
And the 50 yard target, 1x, and it went downhill from there..
If they all would have been like the first, oh yea baby!!
(http://i57.tinypic.com/34sff39.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/1fh7d2.jpg)
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In .22, the pointed Daisy ammo was not bad in the Trail I had. About an inch at 15 yards with a couple of flyers. Of course with a proper rest I could drill a 2.5" spinner out around 70 yards with fair consistency using H&N barracudas.They actually shot pretty good in the Daisy 822 I had as well. But the skirts had to be fixed on about every pellet, because they were so easily damaged. I used a field point stuck on a wooden dowel for a handle. Made them shoot quite a bit better. That said, other than those two guns, I have never been able to make them shoot well in anything else. They have been horrible, lol.
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the small size sounds like a smooth bore thing to me...
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i only trust JSB and RWS - JSB exact heavies for long distance and RWS basic wadcutters for 10m rifle, and JSB Match midweight wadcutters for 10m air pistol. Didn't even know that daisy made pellets :P
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my daisy880 likes the wad cutter,and daisy pointed......long live daisy. cheep and picky.....
5M=one hole group....
long live daisy 880.....................hopefully
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I really wish they'd bring back an anniversary edition of the 880 with a metal pump arm and receiver- and even a smoothbore barrel for better accuracy with BB's. Or maybe if Crosman put out a similar 766. Because we know Daisy pellets are not so great hehehe. Would be nice to have a legitimate 700 fps BB shooter that could keep em in an inch at say, ten yards. Daisy figured out how to do it with the really low powered Avanti models. But maybe that is the secret- low power. The daisy pellets obviousely don't do well if they shoot much faster than a cheap MSP can sling them. I wonder if the trick is to put an upward spin on the bb, a little "English" on it. Apparently it works on paintball guns. I do believe the smooth barrels on the Crosman 760 hav a couple spots in the bore intentionally put there to boost accuracy with BB's..
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Statements such as "junk" annoy me. Is QC what it could be? Not likely.
Daisy round nose pile up on each other at 10 yards with my P17 offhand. They shoot almost as tight out of my 880 as Crosman heavydomes do out of it. My Powerline 856 really likes the hollowpoints out of the daisy sample pack. Actually prefers them over any pellet other than the Crsman heavy domes from the box.
Now my luck with the Daisy wadcutters hasn't been so good. Could just be my tin. Not sure. BUT load those wadcutters in my P17 and every 3rd or 4th one slides right out the barrel. The 880 and 856 will shoot ok ish with them. Good enough for plinking random cans but not for target shooting.
Bottom line for me.... they work well in some AG's and are not junk. BUT there is a reason they are cheaper than most ANY other pellet. Think about it for a 1/2 a second. $3 cheaper than CPHP's are for 500 count. At that price you certainly should not expect match accuracy. That would be plain silly
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Once I have a rifle set up, and I am confident in its consistency with a given pellet at several distances.
I rarely shoot paper after that.
Mostly reactive targets, (empty rifle or pistol or shotgun shells)
At random distances from 5 or 10 yards all the way out to 50-60 yards.
With my 4-16 mildot scope, it helps me with range estimation, hold over/hold under.
And when you connect with a .40 caliber hull at 50 yards, it is very satisfying..
The daisy pellets were just an experiment, I really wanted the 3 compartment holder, the pellets are just for shooting, and it just happened that the wadcutters worked.
The others will be tried in another air rifle, or let my nephew burn the in the crosman 761xl..
The daisy wadcutters will find a place in my backyard plinking (30 yard max)
But my more expensive pellets for more "formal" shooting...