GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Hunting Gate => Topic started by: Nomadic Pirate on July 15, 2013, 06:17:22 PM
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Close quater hunting the Wild Boar with an airgun gotta be one of the most exiting hunts out there, even more when the Small bores are used.
But to pull it off we really need to get the anatomy right to be able to make the perfect shot.
How many times you heard " I shot that big Boar with my 30/30 or .223 right between the eyes and it just run away ".....I would never consider hunting them with a lowly airgun.
Ok then, lets have a look at the boar skull
Looking at you
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/001_zps8beaaaf2.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/001_zps8beaaaf2.jpg.html)
and the broadside
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/002_zpsc9e37b1c.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/002_zpsc9e37b1c.jpg.html)
so here we have the famous between the eyes shot
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/008_zps7ea62580.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/008_zps7ea62580.jpg.html)
now you can clearly see from the side pictures that that shot is hitting at such a slant that even the high power centerfire round would have a hard time in been effective.
Here is the shot I like to take:
Wait for the boar to put the head down, and most times I try to set up on a slope or rock to have some elevation just in case
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/004_zps6f7f895e.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/004_zps6f7f895e.jpg.html)
now you can see that shot hitting square with high chance of great penetration
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/003_zpsd6cb5fd3.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/003_zpsd6cb5fd3.jpg.html)
Now, let's open that skull to see where we really wanna go and the best path there
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/012_zps285af234.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/012_zps285af234.jpg.html)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/011_zpsed994272.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/011_zpsed994272.jpg.html)
now we have a good look at where the brain really is
and with this picture we can make a really educated decision where to put that side shot at
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/013_zpsce001169.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/013_zpsce001169.jpg.html)
I never tryed it, but if the Boar is looking right at you and your gun has enought Juice the rigth in the nostrils shot is gonna be by far the best shot
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Great post, Manny!!
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so the side shot should go to the eye?
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I can tell you with 100% certainty a 452 dia, 300g Jacketed Slug traveling at 1250fps and a .700 dia Lead slug traveling at 1500fps will penetrate the skull. :o :o :o
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Hunting/Briansdualboars.jpg)
Somehow the sound and the picture came out of sink on this one...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Hunting/th_HeadshotPig.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Hunting/HeadshotPig.mp4)
I think about it with my Talon....
CW
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so the side shot should go to the eye?
Nope, on a straight line behind the eye, you have a good 2" to play with
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I can tell you with 100% certainty a 452 dia, 300g Jacketed Slug traveling at 1250fps and a .700 dia Lead slug traveling at 1500fps will penetrate the skull. :o :o :o
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Hunting/Briansdualboars.jpg)
Somehow the sound and the picture came out of sink on this one...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Hunting/th_HeadshotPig.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Hunting/HeadshotPig.mp4)
I think about it with my Talon....
CW
Yeah but I'm talking more about hunting them with .25 cal airguns or maybe .357 airguns,...you're going after them with cannons, LOL
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Manny I gotta admit you really do a great service to AG hunters. Nice visual aid. But I'd kinda disagree about the nostril shot. You're right that it's the path of least resistance due to the long hollow sinus cavity and the brain is directly behind it. But if the shot gets even slightly deflected by that dense snout flesh or the boar moves his snout even 1/8" in any direction it stands a greater chance to be a wounding shot.
As you mentioned, between the eye & ear there's a lot more wiggle room and not as much tissue and bone to go through.
Again, thanks for the share.
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True enough brother, true enough... I would consider it with my Talon Magnum 25!!
CW
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Manny I gotta admit you really do a great service to AG hunters. Nice visual aid. But I'd kinda disagree about the nostril shot. You're right that it's the path of least resistance due to the long hollow sinus cavity and the brain is directly behind it. But if the shot gets even slightly deflected by that dense snout flesh or the boar moves his snout even 1/8" in any direction it stands a greater chance to be a wounding shot.
As you mentioned, between the eye & ear there's a lot more wiggle room and not as much tissue and bone to go through.
Again, thanks for the share.
Ho yeah absolutely, that is just a last resort shot, and I wouldn't attempt it with anything less than .308 and 100 FPE,...the good part of the nostril shot is that if it's farely on point even a slight missalignment the walls would ridirect the bullet up the path, of course I'm talking barely off line here,
Never had the chance to try it, but maybe one day I will ;)
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;D Gotta admit I give anyone who takes a wild boar with an air rifle has huge stones last time I went I rushed my shot with a Ruger red hawk .44 magnum and had to follow him around for 1/2 hour to get a clean kill shot and he treed me twice before I could make my shot. That was not fun way too much adrenaline for me
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Good stuff Manny...
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What is the cavity above the brain cavity?
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What is the cavity above the brain cavity?
Sinuses
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Thank you!
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Thanks, Manny!
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Great insightful post Manny.
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Nicely done Manny.
Richard
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great stuff Manny !
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Great post. Thanks for sharing!
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Wow that was an excellent post and very informative. Thanks a lot Manny.
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Good info here - thanks for posting - and I agree that you should pass on the snot shot.
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I wanna make things perfectly clear now,.....I'm not advocating the nostril shot, however if a porker is looking right at you and you only have those 2 seconds to act the nostril shot would be way higher percentage than the in between the eyes shot.
so lets say for example that I have a boar pointing his nose at me and I know his not gonna hung around for long now, and I'm carrying my 130 FPE .357 I might well consider the shot, ( I would never with a 60 FPE .25 )
never had the chance in the past, but has always been a shot I've been thinking about :) ......when you out there in the thick stuff, Wild Boar territory, you do alot of thinking, LOL
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ok I got it . thank you manny
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Cool post. It's interesting how tiny the pig brain is (esp. considering how intelligent pigs are). That animal is just one giant snout with large nasal airways and teeth/jaws.
Waiting for the critter to put its head down (so you can get a top of the noggin shot) - sounds familar. This shots works great with coyotes and coons.
Possums have similar slanted pointed snouts and tiny brains. I'm not a pinpoint shooter and have difficulty with possum head shots. My solution is to use more power (100 fpe Condor), 71 grain slugs, and go for body shots.
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Yeah this Thread pretty much translates to every bigger mammal hunted with Airguns.
.....Overkill is good brother :) :) :)
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Thanks for the write up and photos. Never seen a wild hog up close and not sure I want to from what I have seen on shows where they capture them.
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As Manny posted they are tough critters to kill and if you ever hunt one make your shot is effective. They usually heavy scaring around the neck and shoulders from fighting they are naturally mean and tough along with being smarter than the average dog. After reading up on some of the pcp rifles sounds doable but I think I would prefer shooting from an elevated position
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Does this look correct to you Manny? The red line is the pellet going directly perpendicular through thinnest part of skull just shy of the center of the blue circle which is the eye then down into the brain.
(http://imgnook.com/OkYaco.jpg)
(http://imgnook.com/7AQ6fo.jpg)
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remember now that you are looking at the orbital cavity, the actual eye ball would be at the edge of the 4 O'clock position, so if taking that shot you'll have to aim 1" above the eye line, I personaly prefer to go 1" higher than that with the head tilted down more
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Ahh 2" above the eyes while they're feeding. Sounds good. ;)
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This is really good stuff.
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We don't have wild pigs in MN but those are some great pics and discussion of getting to the brain. If we could see the same type pics with other critters it would be enlightening. That for the great info.
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I can attest to the failure of between the eye shots. It works with powder-burners with fragmenting bullets but when I tried it twice with my .25 Mrod it did not kill the first hog and sloppily killed the second hog.
Traditionally between the ear and the eye is the preferred shot with a .22LR. Both times though I hesitated to try that shot with my air gun. Next time I get a chance though I am going to try it.
This is an good thread Manny BTW. I'm learning a lot studying the cross-section of the skull.
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Good stuff Manny!
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Close quater hunting the Wild Boar with an airgun gotta be one of the most exiting hunts out there, even more when the Small bores are used.
But to pull it off we really need to get the anatomy right to be able to make the perfect shot.
How many times you heard " I shot that big Boar with my 30/30 or .223 right between the eyes and it just run away ".....I would never consider hunting them with a lowly airgun.
Ok then, lets have a look at the boar skull
Looking at you
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/001_zps8beaaaf2.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/001_zps8beaaaf2.jpg.html)
and the broadside
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/002_zpsc9e37b1c.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/002_zpsc9e37b1c.jpg.html)
so here we have the famous between the eyes shot
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/008_zps7ea62580.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/008_zps7ea62580.jpg.html)
now you can clearly see from the side pictures that that shot is hitting at such a slant that even the high power centerfire round would have a hard time in been effective.
Here is the shot I like to take:
Wait for the boar to put the head down, and most times I try to set up on a slope or rock to have some elevation just in case
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/004_zps6f7f895e.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/004_zps6f7f895e.jpg.html)
now you can see that shot hitting square with high chance of great penetration
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/003_zpsd6cb5fd3.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/003_zpsd6cb5fd3.jpg.html)
Now, let's open that skull to see where we really wanna go and the best path there
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/012_zps285af234.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/012_zps285af234.jpg.html)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/011_zpsed994272.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/011_zpsed994272.jpg.html)
now we have a good look at where the brain really is
and with this picture we can make a really educated decision where to put that side shot at
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/013_zpsce001169.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/013_zpsce001169.jpg.html)
I never tryed it, but if the Boar is looking right at you and your gun has enought Juice the rigth in the nostrils shot is gonna be by far the best shot
LOL.....kinda like huntin' hornets with a fly swatter to me! You'll probably be able to swat a couple before gettin' "educated under fire"! :o
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Huhhh ?
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LOL.....kinda like huntin' hornets with a fly swatter to me! You'll probably be able to swat a couple before gettin' "educated under fire"! :o
I've been to this man's house and have seen pics of the MANY 'hornets' he's swatted. A couple. LOL
I think you may need to rethink who needs educated.
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In most elimination Houses of old most of the cows and pigs were killed with a 22 rim fire.
Cows draw X between Eyes and Ears.
Pigs in the ear.
And that is the way we did it on the farm. But in the wild it's a little different. ;)
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In most elimination Houses of old most of the cows and pigs were killed with a 22 rim fire.
Cows draw X between Eyes and Ears.
Pigs in the ear.
And that is the way we did it on the farm. But in the wild it's a little different. ;)
Farm raised animals aren't as tough as their wild born counter parts. Their hides and bones tend to be softer.
LOL.....kinda like huntin' hornets with a fly swatter to me! You'll probably be able to swat a couple before gettin' "educated under fire"! :o
If a hunter has enough respect for his quarry to learn about its anatomy thoroughly in order to find the best spot for a clean kill, you might be surprised to see how much they can accomplish regularly and reliably with very little tools.
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You are rite and I wouldn't want to go against a bore with a small cal. gun.
A friend of mine and I shot one in his back yard a few years ago with pistols mine was a 357 mag. at close range. Toughest dern thing I ever seen to put down.
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You are rite and I wouldn't want to go against a bore with a small cal. gun.
A friend of mine and I shot one in his back yard a few years ago with pistols mine was a 357 mag. at close range. Toughest dern thing I ever seen to put down.
It's not entirely about what you shoot it with, or how many times it gets shot. It's a matter of where you shoot it. I've taken 30+lb game animals with a .177 ag's in one shot more than a few times. Get the lead into the brain or heart/lungs and its over.
When hunting with ag's the key is precision. Always has been, most likely always will be.
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You are rite and I wouldn't want to go against a bore with a small cal. gun.
A friend of mine and I shot one in his back yard a few years ago with pistols mine was a 357 mag. at close range. Toughest dern thing I ever seen to put down.
It's not entirely about what you shoot it with, or how many times it gets shot. It's a matter of where you shoot it. I've taken 30+lb game animals with a .177 ag's in one shot more than a few times. Get the lead into the brain or heart/lungs and its over.
When hunting with ag's the key is precision. Always has been, most likely always will be.
100 % Correct.
and that is why I started the post the way I did, so many story's I hear like that, ....man I would never hunt wild boar with anything less than so & so centerfire, but the reality is that if you learn How/Where to shoot them, and be disciplined, the mighty Big Wild Boar will fall to your powerfull (off course you need to use one of the most powerfull ones out there ) small bore airgun, everytime :)
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It's funny. Last night at work, I was talking to a couple of my buddies about rifles, and they agreed that you would need at least a 300 win mag to take down an elk. They also agreed that the .270 was not a good long range cartridge, despite the fact that it shoots flatter than a 300 win mag, because it doesn't have enough energy, and also that a grizzly couldn't possibly be taken down by anything weaker than a .30-06. I'm pretty sure that more grizzlies have been killed with a 30-30 than any other cartridge out there. Including the largest grizzly ever taken, if I recall. It wouldn't be my first choice as a defense weapon in Alaska, but I am just saying. Both of the guys are experienced hunters, and claim to have taken a lot of deer- what could I possibly say to them? The best part is that they think a red ryder should be sufficient for rabbit or squirrel hunting. Another of my buddies told me he took a deer at 275 yards with a 30-30 and iron sights. I just kept my mouth shut- except for the part about the red ryder I told them I think it would not penetrate the skull of anything except maybe a small bird- if you could even hit it. I haven't killed anything bigger than a snapping turtle so what could I possibly say to these guys? Another good story is the one my stepson told me, about the 200 lb feral hog his dad and grandpa killed with a shotgun shooting slugs, and a 30-06. He told me they shot it over and over again and it kept running around and getting knocked over. They shot it so many times that by the time they killed it, they were afraid to dress it and eat it for all the damaged meat and slugs in the animal, so they just left it. I wonder how many times that poor animal was gut shot at close range. There is so much misinformation out there, usually spread by word of mouth. I wonder how many "hog hunters" out there even realize where to place a shot on a hog for a clean kill- or if they've even tried to look it up?
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Bryan, keep in mind that empty barrels do make a lot of noise. I'm sure we've all as hunters met guys like you're describing. I've met fellas that claim to be avid and experienced hunters. When I invite them on my outings some of them decline. Most of those that do accept usually want to go home before the second night out. Then there are those with the long jaws when they see what a air driven pellet can do for someone that knows how to use it. Now I'm not saying that people should go out hunting moose with a cO2 bb gun. Its just that we all need to know the limits of the most and least that our chosen guns can do & respect those boundaries.
There is such a thing as over kill in hunting, & IMHO that is a form of abuse/cruelty. Shooting an animal more than 2-3 times to put it down is going to cause that critter more pain than it deserves. Taking game animals like deer, elk and hogs at 250+ yards is not hunting in my book. That's just testing one's luck as far as I see it. A skilled hunter is the one that can sneak up on an animal, be it possum, coon ,hog or elk , and get within 30-50 yards for a shot without spooking the critter. That takes not just skilled marksmanship, but stealth, patience, restraint, discipline and most of all respect for the game (both the animal & the sport).
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Great stuff!
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;D For my sons 18th b-day I took him wild boar hunting in North Carolina He was using the Remington 30-06 that I bought him for his 17th. His shot was a frontal that entered between the neck and right shoulder and exiting behind the last rib on the left side. The pig dropped like a stone one shot one dead boar. The heart and lungs were mush no running and no suffering a , the shot was taken at about 35 yards.
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;D For my sons 18th b-day I took him wild boar hunting in North Carolina He was using the Remington 30-06 that I bought him for his 17th. His shot was a frontal that entered between the neck and right shoulder and exiting behind the last rib on the left side. The pig dropped like a stone one shot one dead boar. The heart and lungs were mush no running and no suffering a , the shot was taken at about 35 yards.
That will do it 10 times outta nine. ;D ;D ;D
GOOD JOB!
CW
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It's funny. Last night at work, I was talking to a couple of my buddies about rifles, and they agreed that you would need at least a 300 win mag to take down an elk. They also agreed that the .270 was not a good long range cartridge, despite the fact that it shoots flatter than a 300 win mag, because it doesn't have enough energy, and also that a grizzly couldn't possibly be taken down by anything weaker than a .30-06. I'm pretty sure that more grizzlies have been killed with a 30-30 than any other cartridge out there. Including the largest grizzly ever taken, if I recall. It wouldn't be my first choice as a defense weapon in Alaska, but I am just saying. Both of the guys are experienced hunters, and claim to have taken a lot of deer- what could I possibly say to them? The best part is that they think a red ryder should be sufficient for rabbit or squirrel hunting. Another of my buddies told me he took a deer at 275 yards with a 30-30 and iron sights. I just kept my mouth shut- except for the part about the red ryder I told them I think it would not penetrate the skull of anything except maybe a small bird- if you could even hit it. I haven't killed anything bigger than a snapping turtle so what could I possibly say to these guys? Another good story is the one my stepson told me, about the 200 lb feral hog his dad and grandpa killed with a shotgun shooting slugs, and a 30-06. He told me they shot it over and over again and it kept running around and getting knocked over. They shot it so many times that by the time they killed it, they were afraid to dress it and eat it for all the damaged meat and slugs in the animal, so they just left it. I wonder how many times that poor animal was gut shot at close range. There is so much misinformation out there, usually spread by word of mouth. I wonder how many "hog hunters" out there even realize where to place a shot on a hog for a clean kill- or if they've even tried to look it up?
Bryan,
I surely hate to read such stories even tho I do know that they happen... I HOPE and pray people have more respect for the animals than that.
Something I like to use as a guide is FPE, just like we like here when really rating AG power.
Deer sized game is 1000/1500 FPE
Elk and Moose sized game 2000/2500 FPE
Dangerous game (USA) 3000+FPE
These are IMPACT NUMBERS and they are a GUIDE, NOT stead fast rule. So the lowly 30-30 is a elk buster if you get him close enough. YES IT IS PLENTY and YES it is humane. IF shots are properly placed on calm animals. The 270 has accounted for unbelievable numbers of Elk. Know why? Most people shoot a 270 FAR better then a 300 Magnum. ;) A good, vitals shot with a 270 with a good bullet, will kill faster and more humanely that a poor shot with a 600 Tyrannosaur. (YES it is a REAL bullet)
Many outfitters will prefer a client with hunting experience who can shoot well with a minor adaquite caliber to a city slicker/flat lander with a Manaus magnum. ;) I know I would!
This is not even considering that some animals ''kill'' easier than others. Pigs are tough critters for example. Especially and exponentially the bigger ones. While the big Moose are killed by the tanker truck loads with the a fore mentioned 30-30.
CW
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Stay tuned, I got some goodies coming, all I'm saying is .22 cal :)
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Waiting with bated breath ;D
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Waiting with bated breath ;D
Here
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=51532.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=51532.0)
textbook side and frontal shots,...all in 20 minutes :) :)