GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: harleyflhxi on June 02, 2013, 02:03:05 AM
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I noticed that the join screw (the screw that the breech pivots on) was very loose, so I removed the stock in order to tighten it. Previously, the barrel would simply drop to the cocked position if I were to let go of it before securing it in the locked, firing position.
As I adjusted the screw, I broke the barrel so I could feel that amount of friction I was adding. In doing so, I accidentally let the rear cocking arm come out of the slot in the compression tube, where it contacts the piston. I put the arm back in place (or so I thought) and reassembled the gun.
Now it makes a loud ratcheting spring noise when I attempt to cock it, so I apparently didn't reassemble it properly. I've removed the action from the stock several times, now, attempting to correct my mistake, but I just can't see what I did wrong.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Dave
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Sound like you damaged the tube that sits around the spring. Now when the spring compresses it is rubbing on the tube where the damage is.
Gene
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Gene hit the nail on the head. You dented the piston sleeve. It can be fixed, but I would recommend just getting Mike at Flying Dragon to send you a Delrin tophat and then just remove the sleeve entirely.
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Thanks, guys, for the speedy responses. That tube must be very fragile, because I didn't use much force.
I guess it's time for me to build a spring compressor; do you have a preferred design?
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Gene hit the nail on the head. You dented the piston sleeve. It can be fixed, but I would recommend just getting Mike at Flying Dragon to send you a Delrin tophat and then just remove the sleeve entirely.
I'm looking at the exploded diagram of the Ruger Air Hawk that's in the GTA Library. Are you guys talking about #35, what they are calling the "casing pipe?"
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That's it. Just make sure when you put the new one in that you place the split of the casting pipe on the opposite side of the cocking slot of the piston.
Gene
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That's it. Just make sure when you put the new one in that you place the split of the casting pipe on the opposite side of the cocking slot of the piston.
Gene
Paul is talking about removing this part, altogether, and using a delrin tophat. This is confusing to me as they seem to be very different parts. Where does the tophat go in the exploded diagram? Does it take the place of the sleeve? I'm searching on GTA to see what I can find about this, too.
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Generally on the Ruger there is a thick washer under the casting pipe. That may be what Paul meant. It is sometimes hard to remove. Plus you need a lathe to machine the top hat/washer and the spring guide.
My suggestion is to just replace the casting pipe and leave it alone. Or send it to a pro tuner for a tune.
Gene
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I found this image of a disassembled Air Hawk:
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz300/Dukemeister_photo/Ruger%20Air%20Hawk/TophatAirhawk_zps67ce0f81.jpg)
The casing pipe is on the lower right, just below the spring, correct?
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Generally on the Ruger there is a thick washer under the casting pipe. That may be what Paul meant. It is sometimes hard to remove. Plus you need a lathe to machine the top hat/washer and the spring guide.
My suggestion is to just replace the casting pipe and leave it alone. Or send it to a pro tuner for a tune.
Gene
Yes, that is the casing or sleeve.
Yeah, sleeve is a little tough to pull out, but doable with a pair of needlenose. I suggested getting a tophat from Mike because he makes them all the time for his XS25's which are the same rifle, and they are effective at quieting spring noise and smoothing the shot. You basically just remove the sleeve, smooth the spring ends, and put the tophat on the end of the spring with some lube before sliding it into the piston.
If you aren't confident in cleaning up an repairing the rifle, yeah, consider sending it to someone.
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Thanks, again, guys!
I did a search for [ " air hawk " sleeve ] and I found that I am not alone with this experience: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=41305.msg386550#msg386550 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=41305.msg386550#msg386550)
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it's a common problem, thats why I remove them and make a top hat for the spring to replace it...the top hat in the picture is way to long, the rear guide would need to be really shortened as they both have to fit inside the piston when it's cocked...
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Also, you need to put a well fitted steel washer between the spring and the top-hat or the spring will tear down the flange on the top-hat in a big hurry.
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A piston sleeve is actually pretty useful in that it:-
1) helps stop lube migration off the spring
2) reduces lateral movement of the spring within the piston body (reduces noise & vibration)
3) stops the cocking foot bouncing along the spring coils so cocking is smoother
4) tends to make things a bit quieter
5) the sleeve is probably a smoother surface than the inside of your average Chinese piston.
My B26 + B25 both came with piston sleeves and i saw no reason to remove them.
I put a sleeve in my TF99 made from stainless shim and it's quieter than ever.
All that's needed is a steel washer to cover the end tabs of the sleeve, then a delrin slip washer for the tophat to bare down on. If you then put a delrin washer on the spring guide (i.e. at the other end of the spring), the spring can slip at both ends and will negate any torque and adds a little preload, resulting in smoother operation and increased power.
A lot of guys here in the UK are making sleeves from 0.25mm PTFE sheet, which is pretty cheap & easy to get hold of
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Great points. It really helps to keep the cocking shoe from dragging on the spring which will give you a rough cocking cycle. Your other points are very good as well. Thanks for taking the time to list them. This is the kind of information that the new and some seasoned air gunners need to know.
Gene
A piston sleeve is actually pretty useful in that it:-
1) helps stop lube migration off the spring
2) reduces lateral movement of the spring within the piston body (reduces noise & vibration)
3) stops the cocking foot bouncing along the spring coils so cocking is smoother
4) tends to make things a bit quieter
5) the sleeve is probably a smoother surface than the inside of your average Chinese piston.
My B26 + B25 both came with piston sleeves and i saw no reason to remove them.
I put a sleeve in my TF99 made from stainless shim and it's quieter than ever.
All that's needed is a steel washer to cover the end tabs of the sleeve, then a delrin slip washer for the tophat to bare down on. If you then put a delrin washer on the spring guide (i.e. at the other end of the spring), the spring can slip at both ends and will negate any torque and adds a little preload, resulting in smoother operation and increased power.
A lot of guys here in the UK are making sleeves from 0.25mm PTFE sheet, which is pretty cheap & easy to get hold of
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All 3 of my rifles mentioned above are set up in much the same way.
As I expect most of you know, in the UK we are limited to 12 fpe muzzle energy.
However, this kind of setup is still very energy efficient and will make the best from any spring.
One of our tuners was developing a tune kit for his business and had a bit too much spring and a couple of delrin washers too many and a B25 was producing 22 fpe without too much bother. As a registered firearms dealer he's wasn't breaking the law and his retail products use a spring that needs v. little preload such that a spring compressor isn't needed but still provides max legal power.
Power isn't the be and end all, but with a few delrin / ptfe parts, a little time to smooth out some internal parts and a light application of some moly grease in the right places, you'll get a smoother shooting rifle and more power too.
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I noticed that the join screw (the screw that the breech pivots on) was very loose, so I removed the stock in order to tighten it. Previously, the barrel would simply drop to the cocked position if I were to let go of it before securing it in the locked, firing position.
As I adjusted the screw, I broke the barrel so I could feel that amount of friction I was adding. In doing so, I accidentally let the rear cocking arm come out of the slot in the compression tube, where it contacts the piston. I put the arm back in place (or so I thought) and reassembled the gun.
Now it makes a loud ratcheting spring noise when I attempt to cock it, so I apparently didn't reassemble it properly. I've removed the action from the stock several times, now, attempting to correct my mistake, but I just can't see what I did wrong.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Dave
i know this is an old thread. I was directed to this thread after posting the same questions with the same problem. I had removed the stock to tighten the pivot bolt. while the stock was removed, the shoe fell out due to the design of the 2 part cocking linkage. as I was reinserting the shoe into the receiver, the loose barrel "free-fell and caused the shoe to bind slightly without going into it's slot completely. I got it back in, reassembled the stock to the action, and now have a very harsh/bad "ratcheting" noise while trying to cock it.
After reading this entire thread, and a few other threads on the same subject, I am now convinced I have fallen victim to the same exact thing. DANG IT !
And this is not even MY rifle !
It is a buddies BRAND NEW rifle, that he purchased 2 days ago, for the 4H shooting project that we just started last week.
I am the assistant leader on this 4H project,... and supposedly the resident "Guru" on AG's !
Boy, do I feel dumb now!
I think that since I have never yet done a springer tune myself, AND,... this is a brand new gun I dont even own,... I should do the right thing and have a "Pro" fix my screw-up.
Just what I needed right now too. (NOT)
I guess I'll be giving Mike Melick a call and seeing what this is going to cost me.
Man,... You just can't imagine how dumb I feel right now.
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You just can't imagine how dumb I feel right now.
Oh yes I can!
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Old thread, good suggestions, here's another one...
Usually the dent will be made by the cocking lever foot. The dent is usually pretty short.
Get a socket wrench with a diameter that matches the interior dimension of the casing. Drive it into the casing, carefully. Play a little blacksmith tune on the outside of the casing where the dent was, while the socket is still inside. Make it smooth.
Now drive the socket out of the casing from the opposite end of the casing - use your socket extension.
And 'yer dun. Takes about 45 minutes, from tear-down to re-assembly (assuming you have a compressor, and if you shoot these things you should have one for sure).
And it don't cost nuthin'.
Ben
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follow -up,
I sent the rifle to Flying Dragons to fix my screwup.
BOY ! I am SOOooo Glad I did!
I can not describe how nice this thing is now !
Smoother cocking than I would have EVER imagined, No noise, smooth as butter, beautiful firing cycle, (it almost does not feel like you are shooting a springer at all),... ZERO Twang what-so-ever, and WAY MORE power than I had expected.
Mike knows his stuff !
I want MORE of his guns now.
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I think Mike can do the 25's in his sleep. Ruger AH's are just sweet little rifles once cleaned up right.
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Yes, yes they are. It's pretty satisfying to set 'em up to where they just "thunk" and you absolutely positively know that the pill is going exactly where you intended.
I love these guns. Simple, accurate, reliable, great trigger, tune-able and inexpensive. The "go-to" gun, absolutely.
Ben