GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Edtampa on February 26, 2013, 09:21:37 PM
-
Looking into gettting a PCP and wanted opinions on what everyone thought about the comparison from the two listed above. I can't find much information on the BAM 50/51 but I know MM has them now at a really good price and they are a copy of the Daystate Huntsman.
I have also been looking at the Disco for a while now reading about it. Looking at keeping under $400.00. I have two scuba tanks so I might use them to fill but I also need a portable way to fill the gun so a pump might be part of the purchase.
Ed
-
What do you intend using the gun for and how handy are you are adjusting/simple modding?
-
im gonna go out on a small limb here and say buy a MM QB79 with a power tune for $150 and a 13ci bottle on amazon for $59 with free shipping. that puts you to $210 shipped. that leaves you $190 for a fill adaptor. like $25 on amazon for k valve yoke free shipping too ;D then you have $165 for a scope. i say buy the CP 4-16x40 at walmart for $69. then you still have some cash for pellets and with a bit of tinkering you can have a regulated 20fpe gun that will do 60+ shots on a fill. ;D
Josh
-
What do you intend using the gun for and how handy are you are adjusting/simple modding?
Nutters and Chippers 25 to 45 yards out.
im gonna go out on a small limb here and say buy a MM QB79 with a power tune for $150 and a 13ci bottle on amazon for $59 with free shipping. that puts you to $210 shipped. that leaves you $190 for a fill adaptor. like $25 on amazon for k valve yoke free shipping too ;D then you have $165 for a scope. i say buy the CP 4-16x40 at walmart for $69. then you still have some cash for pellets and with a bit of tinkering you can have a regulated 20fpe gun that will do 60+ shots on a fill. ;D
Josh
I have a QB78 Full Tune by MM. I want a different gun with no tank no CO2 gun to add to my collection.
Ed
-
Well in that case i would say Disco Disco 8) lol that way you would get tons of fills from your scuba tanks since its made to run on 2k fills from the box.
Josh
-
For that, the Discovery. Much more power than you need for 45 yards on those critters, but it would certainly do the job.
Can make the BAM 50/51 work as well, but they are usually much much faster/powerful as delivered and have a rather short shot count because of that. Harder to pump fill (and with a high pressure fill, you're tanks won't last as long if you go the SCUBA route). BAM is a much heavier gun as well, whih makes no real difference for most shooting, but for long walking hunts, I do appreciate the lite/slim (but long) Discovery.
-
I would get the Bam, I did it is my first and only PCP and I'm glad I chose it. Very solid and well made, it may need a little smoothing out in the breech (mine did) but for the money a solid foundation to start with. There is a lot of info out there but you'll have to search on some other forums to get at it. I'm not sure what condition Discos come in or if your interested in getting your hands dirty but the Bam is quite easy to work on and mine is a straight shooter.
-
Only picture I could easily find with a BAM51 standing next to a Discovery (the two middle guns).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/DSCF0577.jpg)
BAM is much more powerful, which really isn’t all that much of an advantage for 45 yard squirrel shooting. Is also a whole lot heavier (as seen, about 9 ½ pounds). About twice as much work to fill (pump filling) for about half the number of “good” shots, so works out to about 4 times as much work for the use you intend.
Don’t get me wrong, I do like the BAM. But because I do have a choice, it’s not the one I’d take out for the job you describe. If i were likely to shoot things bigger than that, or farther, it might be the better choice. I do hunt tree squirels with the Discovery at about the same ranges you mention, and find that 19 foot pounds does the trick just fine (and even 15 would).
-
Ribbonstone
That BAM is much bigger sitting next to the Disco. A lot more wood on that stock which for me weight is a factor especially when you add a scope and a bipod.
My shooting is in the range stated because the pests are on the other side of the yard and very little places to hide between them and me.
How does the accuracy compare between the guns?
-
BAM weight mostly comes from being all metal (except for the o-rings and other seals). Not only that, has a surprisingly thick air tube. Stock is typical Chinese mystery-wood, and not really as heavy as it would be if made from traditional hardwoods. Gave up on it being a light weight, so went ahead and mounted a 30mm scope in one piece mounts ( could have saved a few ounces here...but really, 9.2 pounds vs 9.6 isn't enough to worry about).
Ignore the stock...bought that gun used, and the talented previous owner did the stock work. My wood working skills are about on a par with a dull toothed spastic beaver.
Both of them are hit-or-miss accuracy wise, with most shooting well but also with a "$)((#" now and again. Would guess the BAM's have fewer turds (but a new Crosman barrel is something like $23, so getting a second ticket to the barrel lottery is cheap for Discoveries). BAM is more accurate than the Disco now, but I had to cure a transfer port burr first (and that's not all that easy BAM uses a barrel glued into the breech).
For shots at squirrels at 45 yards or less, keep in mind:
They both need LDC's...but the Discovery will be quieter (less energy/less air use/less noise)
Everyone and their momma makes Crosman add-on parts.
BAM parts are getting harder and harder to find.
Discovery and a pump...you won't need tanks. BAM, you may.
-
Ribbonstone
I really appreciate all your insight to both platfoms and spelling out the pros and cons in detail. Sounds like the Disco has many more options and better shot counts with less effort and as accurate as I need it to be.
Thanks,
Ed
-
Just my two guns, whih oesn't prrove "snot" about any other two guns, but at least it's an honest opinion.
Takes a bit of fiddling around, but with standard striker spring, standard striker, but with a power adjuster (just not maxed out) can get a good shot count at a 45-50yard killing energy.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Disco/DSCF1827.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Disco/DSCF2463-1.jpg)
20 yard practice target:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/Disco/DSCF2464-1.jpg)
So it’s only about 17.8 foot pounds…but so far, the squirrels at 45-50 yards haven’t noticed any difference.
This is the BAM51 tuned DOWN. Lot more power (likes the 21gr. pellet), but the shot count is a good bit shorter.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/BAM51/DSCF2029.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/BAM51/IMG_0068-1.jpg)
20 yard practice target:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/BAM51/DSCF2571-1.jpg)
So, in my two guns, the BAM is good bit more powerful and more accurate, but considering what it takes to kill squirrels at 45 yards, they’d never know the difference.
(Or as my old buddy would say, “Having the pellet come out the other side going faster doesn’t help for jack-ship.”)
-
The B50/51 can be tuned relatively easy to what ever power level suits you as well it is still 1/2 a pound lighter than a TX200 carbine. Its made of metal and a solid unit. Regardless of what you may choose maintenance will likely fall on your shoulders, in the process of tuning my rifle and learning how it ticks I must a disassembled mine a couple dozen times and it is no worse for wear, a testament to its robust construction also it already comes with an excellent adjustable trigger.
-
ed
my vote would be for the b51
mine in ,177 with the mcmaster carr spring (thanks garth) has a nice shot count and will still throw the cph 10.5 's plenty fast
good luck
-
With a disco your sweet spot will be around 1,800-1,200psi which will give you 2 mags worth of shots. Refilling to 1,800psi from 1,200psi doesn't take that many pumps and they are easy unlike at higher pressures. You could get a power adjuster to set it at lower fpe where it would shoot around 3 mags in the sweet spot too. I'd personally recommend the mrod trigger with it for non pulled shots.
-
Or you could double tube it and double your shot count without risking a hernia while pumping it to 1800psi.
-
No hernia to only 1,800psi since pumping is easy there but past 2,500psi yes I could see it happening since a lot of people have to lean their weight into it to get the pump all the way down. The double tube is a nice option though and doesn't increase the weight much. Under 1lb if I remember right.
-
After I installed the new spring in the b50 I only needed 16-1800 psi max to be in the sweet spot.
-
Josh, I am going to put a vote in for the B51. Consider that I have not owned a Discovery but in the few short weeks I've owned a B51, it has astounded me in every respect:
1. accuracy - I can turn in 0.25" groups at 25 yards time and time again. Not an exaggeration. I haven't shot much at greater ranges yet but my very first carefully-shot group at 45 yards was covered with a dime.
2. power - 30fpe with heavy JSB 25.4gr pellets, 26fpe with Crosman 14.3gr pellets and I haven't touched a single adjustment yet.
3. shot count - With common 14gr pellets, I get over 20fpe for 68 shots! Mind you the extreme spread for such a long string is about 100fps, and at some distance I'm sure that matters but at 25 yards I'm not seeing more than maybe 1/4" of vertical stringing.
4. hold sensitivity - What, are you kidding me? Hold it or rest it however you want and it puts the pellet right on the crosshairs every time.
If you've been searching the forums, you may have come across my thread already but if not, following is a link to it. In it I have some example groups and a graph of a long shot string (fps and fpe plotted together), among other things that came up along the way.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=41186 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=41186)
Whichever direction you take, I think you will be very happy. Good luck and happy shooting!
-
I also meant to say that I did not find the B51 to be heavy at all, and I'm an almost gaunt 5'11" 145lbs. The rifle's front/back weight distribution is good and offhand shooting feels natural. Compared to my XS46U, it feels like a lightweight. That's probably not so much due to a big weight difference but the XS46U, being an underlever, has a forward bias that's just harder to support.
This morning I stood outside on my back porch with the rifle supported offhand for 12 solid minutes, long enough that a squirrel came down to the base of a tree 10 yards away and stood there eating a nut with the crosshairs resting on the side of his noggin. I'm letting the population swing back, though, so he got a pass.