GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: oakey on February 19, 2013, 01:24:05 AM
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I have a great interest in a PCP just concerned about filling them. What are the options?
Thanks
Oakey
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Only Hand Pumps here done that for yers now, and I had some guns with huge 500cc tanks and/or guns that where serioud airhogs
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Full size compressor, no shoes box, here. All the air that I could need is out in the shed, 24/7.
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I used handpumps for a while. Had no problem even with the big bore air hogs. Once I started working on them more (also after I received several free SCBA cylinders) I purchased a shoebox. It is a nice accessory that allows me to shoot more and degas a sun without the dread of having to air it back up from zero.
Depends on what you want. Below is listed from cheapest to more expensive.
Hand pump = a refill in 3-4 minutes whenever you want.
Compressed air cylinder (scuba or scba) = a refill in a minute and after several of those you get to drive to a store and pay a few bucks to refill it.
Cylinder and shoebox = The best of both. Quick refills and once you are done shooting you hook the cylinder up to the shoebox and refill at home.
Cylinder and professional compressor = Same as above but probably overkill if you don't have several cylinders to fill. Quick refills though.
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I used handpumps for a while. Had no problem even with the big bore air hogs. Once I started working on them more (also after I received several free SCBA cylinders) I purchased a shoebox. It is a nice accessory that allows me to shoot more and degas a sun without the dread of having to air it back up from zero.
Depends on what you want. Below is listed from cheapest to more expensive.
Hand pump = a refill in 3-4 minutes whenever you want.
Compressed air cylinder (scuba or scba) = a refill in a minute and after several of those you get to drive to a store and pay a few bucks to refill it.
Cylinder and shoebox = The best of both. Quick refills and once you are done shooting you hook the cylinder up to the shoebox and refill at home.
Cylinder and professional compressor = Same as above but probably overkill if you don't have several cylinders to fill. Quick refills though.
Rescue35,
I own a 4500 psi SCBA tank and have been happy with the many refills that it provides for my rifles that take a 2900 - 3000 psi max fill. I use the SCBA tank to fill my rifles long after its pressure has dropped below their max fill pressure because low pressure shooting in my basement (close range stuff) during the winter months can easily be accomplished without filling my rifles to their max pressure. For example, I can enjoy tons of basement shooting while refilling my Talon SS to 2000 psi and shooting it down to about 1000 psi. Generally, I'll use the SCBA tank that way until it falls to about 2000 psi and then I'll go have it refilled back to 4500 psi.
I'm also curious about your observation that a hand pump refill takes 3-4 minutes. Doesn't that depend on how much volume you need to refill and what pressures you are trying to achieve? I've also read that pumping sessions should be done slowly and have breaks to allow the pump to cool in order to avoid damaging it. Have I missed something in my reading?
Eric
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Good old hand pump here. 8)
It takes me about 5 minutes and around 60 strokes to fill my .25 Marauder from 2400 - 3100 psi. I get 20+ shots per fill. Some guns are easier to pump up like the Discovery. They only need to be filled to 2000 psi. Generally speaking, the smaller the caliber, the more shots you will get per fill.
I would like to own a shoe box and a tank one day. But for now, the hand pump is fine and much cheaper.
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Hill pump here and a 22 MRod. Takes me around 90 strokes to go from 2000 psi to 3000 in 25-30 minutes; including a 10 minute cooldown at 50 strokes. I get two mag's out of that. I haven't degassed it yet, but IIRC the first fill from zero was around 300 strokes - that took a while.
A tank and a Shoebox would be nice, but I get along pretty well without them...
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Rescue35,
I own a 4500 psi SCBA tank and have been happy with the many refills that it provides for my rifles that take a 2900 - 3000 psi max fill. I use the SCBA tank to fill my rifles long after its pressure has dropped below their max fill pressure because low pressure shooting in my basement (close range stuff) during the winter months can easily be accomplished without filling my rifles to their max pressure. For example, I can enjoy tons of basement shooting while refilling my Talon SS to 2000 psi and shooting it down to about 1000 psi. Generally, I'll use the SCBA tank that way until it falls to about 2000 psi and then I'll go have it refilled back to 4500 psi.
I'm also curious about your observation that a hand pump refill takes 3-4 minutes. Doesn't that depend on how much volume you need to refill and what pressures you are trying to achieve? I've also read that pumping sessions should be done slowly and have breaks to allow the pump to cool in order to avoid damaging it. Have I missed something in my reading?
Eric
Eric,
Like I said, it depends. Depends on intended uses (how often one plans to need to refill) and availability of support (no sense in spending $700 on a Great White if you can not get it filled)
I agree with using the cylinders well past there ability to refill a particular gun to it's max fill pressure. If I have one sitting around with 1200 psi I will use that one for the initial fill of an empty gun. I'll also tether one (once below max gun pressure) when shooting from the bench. It is really nice when target shooting, pellet selection, or chrony testing.
As for the pump. Yes it depends on the size of the vessel, and the slower the better. I used the rough second count on both the down stroke and up stroke. So roughly 2 second per cycle. The Prod only needs about 40 strokes to fill so 80 seconds. The Mrod and Dragon Slayer would take 75-80 and I would do 35-40 strokes (70-80 seconds) and then let it rest for minute or two and then finish up. So 2 minutes for the Prod and 6 for the Mrod. would give us an average 4 minutes.
Papa Foxtrot has the patience of a Saint. My shooting time is to hard for me to come by for me to take a half hour to pump up the Mrod for another round.
Also O-rings are cheap and the Benji pumps are easy to service so I had no problem opening it up and repairing it about every 3 months on average.
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Using the Benjamin pump that came with the Discovery. From 1000 to 2000 is about 40 strokes, 3-4mins with a 1 Mississippi count at the top and bottom. I prefer slow and steady for pump longevity. Really, it's not a pain, and I get about 25 shots per fill down to 1000 psi. And unless I am target shooting, that's a lot of hunting.
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I have a 4500PSI tank and a pump. From zero I use the tank. To top off I use the pump.
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I have a 80cubic foot 3500psi steel tank and a Benji Hand pump. Currently the tank only has 2700psi, needs a new hydro in August and a visual inspection... I have not used it for a few months, actually like pumping up my Marauder which right now is my only pcp.
So I am good with just my pump, my forearms are starting to look like popeyes
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I use two 80cfm alum scuba tanks. I fill with one and top off with the other. I fill from 1200 - 2700 or what ever is the psi of the 1st tank. I top off with the 2nd tank from 2700 to 3000. I tried my Hill pump and it is not bad from 2700-2800 up to 3000. Takes about 5 mins. going slowly. I have topped off a dozen times with my 2nd tank and still no pumping is needed for 3000 psi. The highest fill in my area is 3500 psi. If someone ever opens a 4500 psi fill I will upgrade one of my tanks.
Mike
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Thanks for the insight about using the pump. The thing that I most fear would be a need to rebuild in order to replace burned o-rings, etc. Same with a shoebox compressor. As you might imagine I'm not Mr. Handy, and mechanical repair of anything is just not in my skill set. My Wife once told me I couldn't pound sand at the beach with a plastic shovel after I screwed up what she thought was an easy house repair.
Eric
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I started out with a MRod and a Benji pump but soon decided that was not for me as it seemed I was pumping more then I was shooting. So I now have a ShoeBox compressor, a Joe Brancato Guppy 4500 PSI tank w/fill assembly and a SCBA 45 minute 4500 PSI tank.
The hand pump was OK but if you have a PCP that has a magazine and are target shooting it just seemed like I was not truly enjoying it the way I am now.
JMO
Norm
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i use a 6k(rated) 5500(actual) psi nitrogen tank and a small portable 4500 scba tank. the big nitrogen tank last about a year or slightly longer depending on how much air i waste. i dont really count air or pellets. just fill and go.
the fill assembly is from Tim at mac1. i use a double female fosters on each end. it will attach to either tank to gun or between the 2 tanks. Thanks Tim very convenient setup.
regulator and other stuff sold separately. lol :D ;D
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New solution coming soon from Ninja Paintball. weighs about 5lbs, you can get 6+ fills on a Benjamin Marauder, and the solution will cost roughly $300-$350. Slated to be released in about 1 more week :)
Here's a link if you want to see a picture and detailed information about the product. We have switched where the hose attaches per your guys' recommendations so the overall setup will look slightly different. As a heads up, we've already started redesigning the bleed block/valve to be smaller and cylindrical in shape. We've also received feedback from Pyramyd Air and they asked us to include a gauge on it as well, which we've already started planning for the 2nd version.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=42430.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=42430.0)
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Still just using a Hill handpump for Disco and TalonP which I use for hunting. My german springers are more for target.
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It's too is far to drive for tank fills and I'm too old to hand pump a tank up to 4500 psi so I purchased a Shoebox to fill my Joe B. Great White tank.
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2 years as a tank-filler, the last 7 years as a pump filler. Am only 60, so won't be going back to tanks until I'l old and feeble.
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Can I use something like this for a MROD fill? is the Pressure too high? If so how do I fit such a tank to do the job?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tank-Aluminum-Cylinder-Carbon-Fiber-Wrapped-5000-Psi-/271153944978?item=271153944978&ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME%3AX%3ARTQ% (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tank-Aluminum-Cylinder-Carbon-Fiber-Wrapped-5000-Psi-/271153944978?item=271153944978&ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME%3AX%3ARTQ%)
Thanks
Oaks
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I just got myself a 50 L 300bar tank, and I just have my 9L 300 bar for visiting friends.. 8)
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Can I use something like this for a MROD fill? is the Pressure too high? If so how do I fit such a tank to do the job?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tank-Aluminum-Cylinder-Carbon-Fiber-Wrapped-5000-Psi-/271153944978?item=271153944978&ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME%3AX%3ARTQ% (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tank-Aluminum-Cylinder-Carbon-Fiber-Wrapped-5000-Psi-/271153944978?item=271153944978&ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME%3AX%3ARTQ%)
Thanks
Oaks
that tank would likely work just fine with a valve assembly. and then you would need a fill assembly to connect the tank to the gun.
one thing to keep in mind is, where are you going to get the tank filled. if using scuba shop, paintball shop etc. the tank will need to be in date and hydro tested, or they won't fill it. ;D not to be so negative but stuff you should consider. ;D