GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: kelly on January 11, 2013, 11:59:12 PM
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First off sorry for the log post and many pictures but I am looking for some opinions and I wanted to provide all the info ....
After about 150 pellets my scope started changing POI. I made sure everything was tight even blue loctite'd mount and rings.
Scope mounts were SportsMatch 2 piece with arrestor pin and the scope was a Vortex Diamondback 4-12x40 AO.
So at 200 pellets I took scope off and this is what I found ....
The recoil shoved the scope back digging into tube even with the mounts so tight that they made impressions on the tube.
The AO distance ring lost a screw and came loose
The elevation adjuster came apart
After taking the scope and rings back to AOA and hearing well I have never seen that before they suggested that I go with the SportsMatch Dampa Mount DM60 with the AB3 arrestor block. They took my original mounts back and told me I have to send the scope back to Vortex myself (not to happy about that).
I mounted another Vortex identical to my previous one with the new mount and arrestor block all with blue locktite and properly torqued
My question is will this new setup keep my scope alive ???
I did get a chance to put 20 or 30 pellets though her today and the arrestor block moved back about 1/8 of an inch from the mount so I am thinking its useless ...
Help ....
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WnPeWzVfwPI/UPC-lLWTZMI/AAAAAAAAAxU/FmGtV35xD18/s640/CIMG0031.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mr6xJVll9NY/UPC-jBGyjRI/AAAAAAAAAxI/UKdmKbjRIAE/s400/CIMG0033.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RTlkaz7ZDb8/UPC-j20eN4I/AAAAAAAAAxM/2qrGlj76cdY/s400/CIMG0032.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6OQgETZ2HOM/UPC-jsg880I/AAAAAAAAAxQ/NYk5ss-U534/s400/CIMG0034.JPG)
My original setup
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZklBNpuf2R4/UPDDDfiyauI/AAAAAAAAAxY/tQ33iHZU7Zo/s400/20121227_191626.jpg)
My new setup
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ekocrzRPrSE/UPC-Y7WujQI/AAAAAAAAAxE/sM7XjuDQ8MU/s400/CIMG0038.JPG)
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When I first started in Airgunning back in the early 90s everyone was recommending the sportsmatch dampamount blah blah blah ...... huge dollars and they always sucked in my personal opinion.
Try this mount,
Nothing will move here brother. ;)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002TUSJV6/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_SC_dp_1 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002TUSJV6/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_SC_dp_1)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VCVPK6-CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
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Get some 3M Old style cloth electrical friction tape and line your rings. I have had great luck using it and my friend is using it on his RX-2
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Is the recoil that significant compared to the smaller calibers? I've never shot a 25cal before and the fact that it trashed a 300.00 scope is surprising, it's not like you used junk components to build it up with.
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Chuck - The recoil of the HW90 in any caliber is significant from what I understand ...
Its just a beast of an air gun that is for sure ... Probably why I like it so much ... lol
I plan on doing so shooting this afternoon with her and see how it goes ... Sure do hope this dampa mount works ....
Pro - If this mount doesnt work I will give the one you recommenced a shot ...
Tom - With the cloth tape how many wraps did you do ??? I like that idea ... kind of a shock absorber for the shock absorber
Thanks for the reply's gents
Peace
Kelly
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Only use 1 layer of tape, anything more will crush your tube when tightened. The tape is not so much to absorb shock as it is to stop the scope from sliding in the rings. Don't wrap the scope line each half of the rings.
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and i thought my diana 54 was scope hungry . i have a bucket full of dead scopes from my 54 so you might need to invest in a scope company . i think i need to
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When I first started in Airgunning back in the early 90s everyone was recommending the sportsmatch dampamount blah blah blah ...... huge dollars and they always sucked in my personal opinion.
Try this mount,
Nothing will move here brother. ;)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002TUSJV6/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_SC_dp_1 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002TUSJV6/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_SC_dp_1)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VCVPK6-CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
That is a nice mount for $15.00....
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When I first started in Airgunning back in the early 90s everyone was recommending the sportsmatch dampamount blah blah blah ...... huge dollars and they always sucked in my personal opinion.
Try this mount,
Nothing will move here brother. ;)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002TUSJV6/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_SC_dp_1 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002TUSJV6/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_SC_dp_1)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VCVPK6-CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
That is a nice mount for $15.00....
Built like a Russian Tank - Indestructible
Even without scope stop pin I would trust it,
with pin down = Not going anywhere - EVER.
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Yup got that mounted on my magnum springer and the scope has lasted 2500 rounds so far... It's a leapers 4x16x50 much cheaper than your vortex!!
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Line the rings one layer, it sure stops the sopes from sliding. I found it of all places Autozone and Home Depot. Only get the 3M brand its uniform in thickness. I had one scope that must have been undersize in OD slid in every mount I tried since using this to line rings it has not budged.
2nd ...Invest in a small inch pound torque wrench you will never damage a scope. I also suspect overtightened ring caps distort and REDUCE clamping area in contact with tube.
I also swear by BKL260-D7 mounts
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Using a 1 piece mount assembly gives you much more clamping area, over just using scoperings. On a magnum gun, only use scoperings if it is equipped with a Weaver'Picatinny mount. Lapping the I.D. of the rings will take the edges and high points off of them. It'll surprise you. You get the advantage of more solid metal to metal surface contact with your scope tube. Then use the tape to prevent scarring. Even tightening is also needed.
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Update - The gun shot spot on yesterday with no scope movement and all things stayed tight. Today after about 20 pellets my poi moved. Took a look at the marker tape I placed on the scope to detect any movement in the rings and sure enough she shifted back a bit ...
Looks like I am going to lap the rings and install the cloth tape and try again next weekend ....
<rant> I have to say I am a little more than frustrated / disappointed with all this ... I buy good quality stuff so I dont have to tinker with it .... bummer <end rant> Start Fixing ... ::)
Peace
Kelly
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Take that dampamount overpriced junk back and get a refund.
The mount I showed you doesn't need lapping or tape or any other thing. Its all built in for 15 bucks.
Just your time is worth more than that.
If your stuck on trying to save your mount, forget the lap and go right to the tape. If it slips, dump the mount.
I understand your frustration, but marketing hype does not mean better.
Good Luck.
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I've gone to the 1pc setups on all my dovetailed rifles, lap the rings, deburr the edges and use a 3M clear heavy box tape on the rings. It's mainly a BR trick to keep from scarring ring tubes. I use mineral spirits to clean them then apply the tape and trim with a razor. I do use a sharpie and apply a witness mark and have had no problem with mounts moving but the hardest kicking rifles I have are a RWS45 and Airhawk but they frankly seem mild compared to that HW90 your describing. I'm also using the UTG mounts.
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The old slippage cure used to be rubber cement but I'm not even sure where to find it these days. Is the arrestor block like the old Beeman pro stop? I have Dampa I bought for the 54 but haven't installed it yet. Those were designed for the Theoben rams BTW. They do work but I understand the isolating rubber can compress over time. I shoot my RX with the iron sights. Planning on a Beeman peep for that one.
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Take that dampamount overpriced junk back and get a refund.
The mount I showed you doesn't need lapping or tape or any other thing. Its all built in for 15 bucks.
Just your time is worth more than that.
If your stuck on trying to save your mount, forget the lap and go right to the tape. If it slips, dump the mount.
I understand your frustration, but marketing hype does not mean better.
Good Luck.
Oh really?! ???
Never had any bad experiences with my two Dampa mounts in over 15 years. I had more problems with those mounts you posted a picture of.
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Don't sweat it. Lost me at "Forget the Lapping". Mass produced is mass produced. BKL, UTG, etc. doesn't matter. Any good gunner wouldn't assume it's "good to go" outta the box. Surface area counts. Tape is a good scratch preventor, but not a patch fill. For the price of a scope you like, it's cheap.
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lapping I agree is the proper fix contact area matters. Absent the tools to lap the rings I believe the 3M cloth electrical friction tape is the easy way to get stable.
Get the torque wrench since starting to regularly use one on scope mounts my troubles with them have greatly decreased.
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Get a 10 or 12" piece of plain old 1" round HR bar. Then, add tape and a strip of wet to 1 side of it, to build it up to 30mm . This will do the job for guys on a 1" or 30mm scope. Just mount the ring and rotate it away with the steel, some pumice or compound. Start loose and go tighter from there. You get the idea. Dress off the edges, and you'll be miles ahead.
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Get a 10 or 12" piece of plain old 1" round HR bar. Then, add tape and a strip of wet to 1 side of it, to build it up to 30mm . This will do the job for guys on a 1" or 30mm scope. Just mount the ring and rotate it away with the steel, some pumice or compound. Start loose and go tighter from there. You get the idea. Dress off the edges, and you'll be miles ahead.
You can pick up some cheap lapping compound from any auto parts store too...
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Any good gunner wouldn't assume it's "good to go" outta the box.
Your right bullit, why would anyone expect a $100 mount to be good out of the box ??
And for sure rubber doesn't move/compress/degrade over time ect .....
Only 'good airgunners' like you should be allowed to state their experiences.
What do people who have actually owned both on magnum springers know ???
There is a reason people tell you to not bother to respond to their posts.
Add me to that list.
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Well PRO the truth is the truth. It's been that way for a long time, and long before me. Just a question of what you want to call as "good to go". Dollars isn't insurance to the QC. Grab a cup on me, and don't take it personal.
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Bullit: thanks for the info on lapping the scope rings! Im all about simple and figuring out ways to do it cheap and easy.
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Actually, lapping scope rings is good advice; better than a lot of other cures mentioned...certainly professional, unlike the perception of condescending barbs. Just sayin'; play nice!
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Hey Kelly, just drop the rig off at my place next time your on my side of town and Ill do all the dirty work for you, dont forget to bring a tin of pellets also ;)
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HaHa Donny - Be careful I just might do that ... I picked up an FX Independence in .25 yesterday @ AOA ... (I have a post in the general gate)
All thanks for tips and advice ... I plan on doing the cloth tape this weekend and seeing how that goes
If I get any movement then I will look for a 1 inch piece of stainless bar stock and if I am unable to find its off to ordering the lapping kit from Midway USA
I will post an update this weekend
Thanks again all
Peace
Kelly
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You don't need Stainless Steel Kelly. Hot rolled or Cold formed bar will do just fine.
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ok cool Bullit ... thanks for the info .. I have valve lapping compound already so I am half way there ...
Peace
Kelly
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Get some 3M Old style cloth electrical friction tape and line your rings. I have had great luck using it and my friend is using it on his RX-2
The RX2/HW90 is capable of +400 gravity acceleration levels. Tom's tape suggestion is the only thing that has kept scopes from moving on me. The mount interface with the rifle took an RWS Lockdown mount with 4 screws and added another three and *THEN* locktite'd it to the dovetails in order to lock everything up. My RX2 wrecked a Vortex Crossfire and I never had to pay shipping to return it...and they upgraded me for a wee bit extra to a diamondback. I am glad that scope mever made it to my RX2...it is doing fine service on my Marauder.
cheers,
Douglas
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You guys are not going to believe this ... The tape worked scope didnt move an milometer ... But at pellet 42 my gun dropped poi by 4 inches and shooting like a shotgun ... Broke out the crony to make sure it wast the gun ... All good 5 shots average 625fps... The HW90 just killed it's second Vortex DiamondBack .... For a $300 scope I am not having much luck ... Well this one is going to be off to Vortex .... Any suggestions on a scope that can handle this beast ?? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Peace
Kelly
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You might want to look at a Magnum "AIRGUN" rated scope. Vortex are nice scopes, (I'd like to have a Viper for one PB), but you won't find them mention air rifle applications. The bi-directional piston shock is a "standard rifle" scope killer. The Leapers top line scopes are made for the magnum air rilfes. The new UTG 4-12x44 SWAT glass etched reticle is very nice. I've used these scopes for a few years on my Diana Magnums, They're tough. Leapers focused on Magnum airgunners. My 1st was a 3rd Generation, and it's still kickin' squirrels on a D48 .22 and a young gunner. I know that thing had over 15k when I refit it. FWIW.
Here's the link, just posted it for another member with the same problem w/Hatsan Magnum:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/leapers-utg-3-12x44-ao-rifle-scope-ez-tap-ill-mil-dot-reticle-1-4-moa?a=4319 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/leapers-utg-3-12x44-ao-rifle-scope-ez-tap-ill-mil-dot-reticle-1-4-moa?a=4319)
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I use a Simmons 8point rifle scope I picked up for $49.95 at the local shooter shop.....
Have over 500 pellets through the gun with the new scope, no problems.....
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You guys are not going to believe this ... The tape worked scope didnt move an milometer ... But at pellet 42 my gun dropped poi by 4 inches and shooting like a shotgun ... Broke out the crony to make sure it wast the gun ... All good 5 shots average 625fps... The HW90 just killed it's second Vortex DiamondBack .... For a $300 scope I am not having much luck ... Well this one is going to be off to Vortex .... Any suggestions on a scope that can handle this beast ?? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Peace
Kelly
I have had decent service from the big Leapers SWAT. 4-16x56 SWAT and etched glass reticle. First one served for about 4000 rounds this summer and Leapers was quick to replace it. Accelerometer measurements showed +400 G of shock...nothing to sneeze at. I've been playing with the idea of lowering its power a bit by letting some air from the ram...maybe head for 19 FPE instead of nearly 22.
cheers,
Douglas
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Leapers or hawke will handle.it. and if a leapers gets.killed.they are very easy to deal with. I have had to replace 2 theat went on my 350 before tune and leapers replaced them quickly.
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Well all I have fixed the problem once and for all
I traded the HW90 along with my HW97 in on a .22 cal FX Independence
Way too many issues to deal with ... Just not worth the time and aggravation
HELLLLOOOOO Dark Side 8)
Peace
Kelly
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Booooooooo!
;D ;D ;D
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Well all I have fixed the problem once and for all
I traded the HW90 along with my HW97 in on a .22 cal FX Independence
Way too many issues to deal with ... Just not worth the time and aggravation
HELLLLOOOOO Dark Side 8)
Peace
Kelly
You think so??? the Independence is plauged with problems...hopefully yours will be an improved updated version
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Nikko - I know I am a quitter ... lol ???
Tom - Well at least I wont be replacing scopes every week lol :D
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Nikko - I know I am a quitter ... lol ???
Tom - Well at least I wont be replacing scopes every week lol :D
Just kidding, my friend ;)
Enjoy the new shooter! 8)
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Oh I know Nikko ... I still have my HW95 and HW30s ... Great rifles for sure
Peace my friend
Kelly
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do some research there are a couple FX factory fixes to weak spots......some have even been sent the updates for free