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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => UK Airgun Gate => Topic started by: David.Soliman on September 29, 2012, 07:00:57 PM

Title: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: David.Soliman on September 29, 2012, 07:00:57 PM
I went hunting with a friend of mine and he had a wicked looking BSA air gun it said 1 of 1000 on it and the only information I found is that it is a 1982 model that looks exactly like this one:

(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/5287/brc1yo5.jpg)

I am borrowing the pic, and hope the owner won't mind. The gun is dead accurate with very little recoil, anyways he asked me if i could make a ldc for it and I started to take some measurements. When I looked down the barrel I saw the strangest thing ever, the last 2 inch of the barrel were not rifled and about a mm wider than the rifeled barrel. At first I thought it was a tube fitted over the barrel but when I looked closer I found that it wasn't, the actual barrel had the last 2 inch drilled wider than the .22 hole and was not rifled.

Has anyone seen anything like this before?
Is that strange barrel design the secret behind this rifle's accuracy?


Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: Motorhead on September 29, 2012, 07:13:14 PM
Only a guess ... But likely idea was to allow gas pressure behind pellet to surround pellet and over take it for a short distance in help of further stabilizing pellet before exiting muzzle ? .... a 180* approach to what Air strippers are doing.

Only speculation here ...
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: sghr220 on September 29, 2012, 07:46:54 PM
I guess this is called "Counterboring". Normally it's a way of restoring a worn muzzle (damaged crown or rifling) and BSA could've used it to preserve the barrel accuracy over use in the field. Here's a photo of the concept of "Counterboring":
(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l601/sghr220/counterboring.jpg)
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: Raizer on September 29, 2012, 09:55:07 PM
My Meteor and all other Meteors I've looked at have been like this too, I think its normal for BSA barrels?
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: jpsgunworks on September 29, 2012, 10:15:16 PM
I have a .177 AR2078 with a counter bored barrel. Makes them a  pita  to recrown.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: jct842 on September 29, 2012, 10:37:17 PM
A barrel such as those  should never ever need a re-crown.  If a crown is right it will stay that way in a recess like that.  I believe that any manufacturer that went that far to protect the crown is going to put a perfect crown in that hole.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: Motorhead on September 30, 2012, 02:16:55 AM
Are WE catching the comment that counter bore go's in muzzle end near 2 inchs !!
IMO that's no crown saver but something else  :o
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: David.Soliman on September 30, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
I agree motorhead, that is definitely not a crown saver, I have heard of recessed crowns and seen some pictures, but honestly the thing is too deep to be a crown saver, pluse there is not enough left for a crown. I mean the 1 mm size difference is not enough for a crown (I am not sure whether it is 1 mm or more). I'm gonna see my friend next week and will try to shoot some pictures down that barrel.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: 1nmartin on September 30, 2012, 11:30:31 AM
I would guess that its an attempt to Salvage a barrel with a bad crown... Sounds like a REAALLLYY bad crown... Just a guess. I know they counterbore the muzzles on a lot of Mosin-Nagants since the crown on those is usually pretty stinky. WOuld like to see some pics.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: ako on September 30, 2012, 02:16:22 PM
This is going to sound funny, but it could have been wasps or some insects built a nest when the rifle was laid up for a long time.

After the nest was removed, the rifling may have been damaged and hence the 2 inch counter bore.

The first time i heard of it, I didn't believe that wasps would make a nest in a barrel but you can google if if you want.....
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: David.Soliman on September 30, 2012, 04:15:08 PM
I am sure that this is not some repair, the gun is in perfect condition it does not have a scratch on it, and it was very rarely used.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: Lambchops on September 30, 2012, 04:41:35 PM
I think Motorhead's answer was most logical lol.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: David.Soliman on October 02, 2012, 05:36:03 PM
I didn't stand waiting till the end of the week, so I paid the guy a visit and measured the recess. It is 3 cm deep, that is 1.18 inch for all of you imperial out there. A lot less deeper than what I thought, but still too deep.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: Raizer on October 02, 2012, 08:44:09 PM
Same depth as my Meteor.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: lillysdad621 on October 03, 2012, 01:50:55 PM
BSA has had that from way back. had several supersports, airsporter and meteors and all had that .30 caliber look down the barrel.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: David.Soliman on October 03, 2012, 01:56:15 PM
Ya but does it affect accurcy or is it just a crown saver? If so why make it so deep? I think a .5 inch would be more than enough to save any crown, right?
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: rsterne on October 03, 2012, 02:00:23 PM
At that depth, it's can't be just a crown saver.... It is either intended to increase accuracy, or is part of the manufacturing process (eg. guiding the rifling broach).... Perhaps they discovered that it didn't HURT accuracy, and allowed them to save time, setup, and/or materials while making the barrel?....

Bob
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: 1nmartin on October 03, 2012, 02:19:01 PM
Bob has a very good point. That may be the case. I hadn't thought about any purpose such as that but it seems like a good point.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: K.O. on September 21, 2019, 12:07:41 AM
Hmm that would take out the choke on my BSA barrels.. ;) wonder if the had some that were over choked... considering it for nixxing the choke on my Hatsan AT long .22 so I can keep the 1/2 UNF threaded muzzle...
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: Novagun on September 21, 2019, 12:16:25 AM
Gamo CFX CFR have a barrel end like that. I am told they are a BSA design. Those that I have are much improved by cutting the peculiar end off and recroning.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: BackStop on September 21, 2019, 12:34:11 AM
............ the actual barrel had the last 2 inch drilled wider than the .22 hole and was not rifled.

Has anyone seen anything like this before?
Is that strange barrel design the secret behind this rifle's accuracy?

The crosman NP fire has the same design. 2" of widened/unrifled barrel right at the tip.  Also thought it could be the plastic barrel/cocking handle, but further inspection it was the barrel.


Im to assume 2 things. It helps with accuracy, or silence. A shorter barrel in general is good for accuracy but has a faster decline in speed over distances. Either that "pocket" simulates a shorter barrel or it acts as a super semi air stripper (if thats what im to understand)

As loud as the .177 NP Fire is, I doubt it had anything to do with "silence" or accuracy.  As Bob noted above, it is probably due to the manufacturing process and the manufacturer finding that they can make the barrel cheaper and not lose *much* in accuracy, while still claiming a "rifled" barrel length that is no all rifled.

Anyway...  (grin)
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: BackStop on September 21, 2019, 12:49:18 AM

As loud as the .177 NP Fire is, I doubt it had anything to do with "silence" or accuracy.  As Bob noted above, it is probably due to the manufacturing process and the manufacturer finding that they can make the barrel cheaper and not lose *much* in accuracy, while still claiming a "rifled" barrel length that is no all rifled.

Anyway...  (grin)


Sure it has a small bark, but a shortened barrel has ben proven to be more accurate  (within shorter distances) than a longer barrel. Idk what to beleive, but that is still a possibility on the table, for the "pocket" at the end of the barrel. I dont know squat about sound reduction but i threw that "perception" out there.

Cheaper to produce now questions me, how? Your buying/using the same steel "slab" but your removing more material (creating that pocket) to sell it cheaper?

Faster (manufacturing) is cheaper.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: Rick67 on September 21, 2019, 02:16:09 AM
Randy of Connecticut Precision (10/22 god-level expert) does counterboring on Ruger Target bull barrels..

There are pics that you can see if you visit his site
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: BackStop on September 21, 2019, 02:33:41 AM
............ the actual barrel had the last 2 inch drilled wider than the .22 hole and was not rifled.

Has anyone seen anything like this before?
Is that strange barrel design the secret behind this rifle's accuracy?

The crosman NP fire has the same design. 2" of widened/unrifled barrel right at the tip.  Also thought it could be the plastic barrel/cocking handle, but further inspection it was the barrel.


Im to assume 2 things. It helps with accuracy, or silence. A shorter barrel in general is good for accuracy but has a faster decline in speed over distances. Either that "pocket" simulates a shorter barrel or it acts as a super semi air stripper (if thats what im to understand)

I just checked my Crosman NP Fire and the rifling goes all the way to the crown.   Did you buy your Fire used?

BTW, it does actually have a crown and the grooves are visible at the crown.

They are not as pronounced as you would see in a PB, but they are there.

I would take pics, but my cellphone (flip-phone) camera is not capable of that close detail work.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: BackStop on September 21, 2019, 02:43:46 AM
Straight from PA new. Il try to get a picture probably tomorow. Right now its loaded(not cocked) for a garbage panda invasion soon to happen tonight...

Well, it is an extremely cheap gun, so it is possible that they changed how the barrel is made (or just buy from the cheapest Chinese bidder) after I bought mine from Walmart several years ago.

I was a fan of the gun until it became hard to hit anything consistently with it and I finally got a chrony and found out that it could not even produce 100fps which explained why I could not hit anything.

I have considered giving it away, but I am leaning toward sending it to the dump... where it really belongs.   :o 8)

Oh, and it IS really LOUD without a moderator/LDC.

BTW, I noticed this in your signature:

"Crosman Fire NP .177 (soon to be gone)" 


(chuckle)
 
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: BackStop on September 21, 2019, 03:07:01 AM

I was a fan of the gun until it became hard to hit anything consistently with it and I finally got a chrony and found out that it could not even produce 1000fps which explained why I could not hit anything.

I have considered giving it away, but I am leaning toward sending it to the dump... where it really belongs.   :o 8)

Oh, and it IS really LOUD without a moderator.


Since new, it has declined performance. 850fps~ with 16g pellets. Loud, its still more quiet than a 1377 or 2240. My buddy wants mine.. he just shoots garbage. I paid $75 but I'll give it to him for 20 I really don't care I'm done with it. Its still quiet, just crappie performance over time. I got a steal deal from pyramyd air with 3 promotions at that time.

I never shot 16g pellets out of mine.  10.5 Crosman .177 pellets was what worked best and those were still very loud without my DIY moderator/LDC.

The heavier the pellet the quieter the AG... generally...


I did try the H&N Sniper Magnums 15g pellets, but they didn't do well on accuracy in the Fire/F4 and don't do well in the Freedoms either, but I may need to revisit that with the Freedoms.

I think I paid either $59 or $69 for mine and it was from Academy, not Walmart as I said earlier.   No more NP AG's for me.   If I was younger and steadier, I might consider a higher end springer, but now that I have the Freedoms...   for now, I don't see any reason to get a springer of any kind.

P.S.

I just looked it up in Quicken and I purchased the Fire/F4 in May of 2017.   It didn't last very long, IMHO.  Much less than 2 years and it was not even shot much at all for the first 6 months/year...

How long have you had/used your Fire/F4?
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: BackStop on September 21, 2019, 05:18:50 AM
.........
......
How long have you had/used your Fire/F4?



Looked at pyramyd orders, Mar 3, 2018.


Shot maybe 4000 pellets out of it so far.


Even mentioned in a thread a month or so ago. It did literally spit fire.... freaked me out big time....

Too much oil/wrong kind of oil and all springers/NP AG's will "diesel".

They can easily, literally "spit fire" under some conditions.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: Yogi on September 29, 2019, 03:38:26 AM
Hmm that would take out the choke on my BSA barrels.. ;) wonder if the had some that were over choked... considering it for nixxing the choke on my Hatsan AT long .22 so I can keep the 1/2 UNF threaded muzzle...

That would be my guess.... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Show use more.

-Y
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: nced on September 29, 2019, 08:30:45 AM
Only used silicone oil on the breech oring every 400~ shots.
The gun is no Bueno for real application, just plinking.


Anyways, back to OP


Im curious how many other airgun share the same "feature".
I found silicone oil to be a bad steel to steel lube. This an be easily proven by spinning a steel rod in a lathe chuck, put some silicone oil on a steel bar, then apply the oiled surface to the spinning rod taking note of how long it takes to start galling relative to petro based greases.

Anywhoo....I don't use any "silicone oils/greases" in my springers.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: lillysdad621 on October 15, 2019, 08:35:08 PM
8580 with 16g is a real healthy number... most nps shoot 14.3 at between 740 and 700 when broken in. and that is plenty punch for any kinda shooting.
Title: Re: strangest barrel I have ever seen
Post by: Mossonarock on December 04, 2019, 11:13:15 AM
Perhaps its a megaphone to make the airrifle sound louder.  ::)