GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: arubino19 on August 29, 2012, 12:57:47 PM
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If my scope is sighted in at 20 yards. And my shot is about 40 yards away which mil dot is generally the correct one to use? Does anyone have a cool diagram showing how to use mil dots at different yardages?
Andrew
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Depends on a lot of things, including scope height, what magnification your on, your fps, bc, and more. Hawke Optics has Chairgun, a free downloadable program that is awesome!
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I suppose so because I just nailed a shot at 40 yards or so using the first mil dot low from the center. But according to the YouTube videos I've seen that shouldn't have been the correct dot lol.
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This is just off the top of my head, but if your sighted in at 20 your second zero is probably about 35 so 40 is just a little down. I use MPBR (chairgun figures) and I think my zeros are 18yds and 33yds. I think 40 drops off pretty rapidly for me though. Oh, &^^&, I'll just crank it up. Zeros at 15yd and 37yd. Down about a quarter inch at 40yds. 2 inches down at 50. Wow, I'm sooting really flat.
So what I have to remember, or write down, is zero at 15, half up at 25 and zero again at 37 (40). Use a different ammo and it's different. Also I should verify this by shooting at 25 and 40, but my backyard is only 10.
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Andrew, just download Chairgun Pro. It's free.
You'll be happy you did. It'll answer your questions, and even has a illustration thru a mildot scope at whatever target you choose. It's a good tool!
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Easiest and most fun is to go out and set up some targets, choose your pellet and use same pellets, check zero. Then learn which holdover/under works with magnification chosen. Even if you make a range/magnification card with Chairgun, it's foolish not to verify.
8)
Sam
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Yes Sam....it's foolish not to verify. We give the folks credit, that they use Chairgun as a tool. It is a very good tool.
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I suppose so because I just nailed a shot at 40 yards or so using the first mil dot low from the center. But according to the YouTube videos I've seen that shouldn't have been the correct dot lol.
There is no correct way to use a Mil dot reticle as far as zeroing goes. Most guys like to sight in so they can use the center of the crosshairs for the as much of the trajectory as possible. Any distance closer and further away than that PBR you will have to hold over for. Like was mentioned above, it entirely depends on you gun as to what kind of trajectory you are working with. The goal is to figure out where the pellet is going to be at each range so you can accurately compensate using the reticle.
Andrew
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I use chairgun, but you have to keep in mind that unless your scope is HAWKE the program isn't made for the exact scope you have, and if your scope doesn't go to 10 power, some OTHER calculations will be off too, i.e. the hight of a given target at 100yds, 50 yds (twice as high) etc.
Well, there is a selection of generic reticles in the chairgun program, so you MIGHT luck out!
I like to shoot alot, so I enjoy the job of verification. I set up targets at 10, 25, 40, 50, 55 yards and jot down on paper which mildot gets me the hits I want.
PaperPunch1
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It works fine with Mildots. They're standard Milspec.
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Chairgun is very accurate if you enter all your data correctly (does not have to be Hawke). The only change I see is when you do not hold the same way and wind (but, wind can also be calculated).
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Easiest and most fun is to go out and set up some targets, choose your pellet and use same pellets, check zero. Then learn which holdover/under works with magnification chosen. Even if you make a range/magnification card with Chairgun, it's foolish not to verify.
8)
Sam
This is the best way.
Get out there and shoot! That's the fun part.
It wouldn't hurt to make a data book for each gun you have. That way, you can keep an accurate history of your shooting sessions. You will learn more about your gun and shooting ability than you ever could just plinking around.
Chairgun is amazing software but imo, you still need to verify with your particular rifle.
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No posts other than that one made any implications or reference to using the Chairgun Pro program as a substitute for shooting. It affords the user some insights to variables, that they would like to investigate, without having to make extra purchases or physical changes to his/her setup. Again, we give credit to our GTA members, that they are using it as a tool...It's a good tool. Why own one and invest the time...if it's not to be shot?
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Andrew, just download Chairgun Pro. It's free.
You'll be happy you did. It'll answer your questions, and even has a illustration thru a mildot scope at whatever target you choose. It's a good tool!
+1 Chairgun is the bomb.
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No posts other than that one made any implications or reference to using the Chairgun Pro program as a substitute for shooting. It affords the user some insights to variables, that they would like to investigate, without having to make extra purchases or physical changes to his/her setup. Again, we give credit to our GTA members, that they are using it as a tool...It's a good tool. Why own one and invest the time...if it's not to be shot?
I assume you are referring to my post.
It was never my intention to imply that one might use a substitute. The original poster's question, in it's purest form, was how to use the mil dot system. The member's second post stated that their results did not match other data found online.
Given this information alone, does it seem too far stretched to suggest "your results may vary"? That was my point.
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Go to youtube and do a search for Teds Holdover.
He has two different videos dealing with mil-dots, one shows him making targets that aid
in judging size at certain yardages and the other shows how to read the mil-dots and dial in for that range.
He makes awesome videos and has made some really impossible looking long range shots.
This will help you with your mil-dot question.
Ray
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I found them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_ZNjBUmKq4&feature=relmfu#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_ZNjBUmKq4&feature=relmfu#ws)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X3SLslalJE#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X3SLslalJE#ws)
Ray
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Chairgun is good software and somewhat useful and actually may be of some help. I learned how to shoot without computers, actually learned how before I went to Marksmanship training which was taught by a real Instructor only using visual aids. So all you need is trigger time and chairgun doesn't provide any. Practice, practice and more practice is the only way to learn?
An I still don't need software, trigger time before cyber time will make an accurate shooting marksman. But if you are interested in some cyber reticle range finding practice with FFP mil-mil is state of art or you can test your math skills with SFP moa-mil or moa-moa scopes to learn the fundamentals of reticle range finding before launching a projectile/pellet down range towards a bullseye. Is the shooter ready, no?
http://www.shooterready.com/lrsdemo.html (http://www.shooterready.com/lrsdemo.html) This is the intended use for Mil-dots! You may want to attend the class room before jumping into the simulation. Use your mil-dots however you choose and have fun.
Nowhere have I ever made the statement that chairgun replaces actual real world trigger time and KYmike is making a false statement that I did. Read this post for yourself.
Sam :P
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Sam...
None of us "NEED" it. No one but you imply that folks are using it as a substitute for practice time.
It's a fine program, that gives us a tool to work with, BEFORE we get to the range. Understand that we all don't have 50, or even 30 yards at our ready disposal. For those folks, it's very useful. Don't worry Sam, they are shooters that are trying the best they can, to be their best
I am a veteran Sam, as are many of us. We are well versed. We don't wear it on our shoulders. We are also shooters, that enjoy...and INVITE...any new innovations that helps to bolster interest in this hobby. And technology is something that shouldn't be met with disdain or condescension. Mike
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it is universally known the chairgun is such a benefit to all airgunners. it is also known that trigger time is invaluable and cannot be duplicated. but with both and applying them, there is no limit to what you can do and/or achieve.
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I agree with that last statment Mike and I am going to ask you guys to play nice, especially Sam. Choose your words carefully when posting and be mindful and respectful. I do not wish to receive any more complaints..
Harry
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I just deleted chairgun, I shall never have use of ever again. You need to read my post again as you have made a false statement. Admin you should read the post again, also. I will not be falsely accused of posting chairgun is a substitute for practice.
Sam ::)
(Duely noted and Admin sees. Also note NO name calling or bickering in open forum. Will not be tolerated.
D Ez)
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I found them.
Ray
Excellent videos, knows his mil-dots and even got the metric mils correct. Threw me off at first saying one mil equals 100mm at 100m which is true, but it usually said as one mil equals 10cm at 100 meters. Have watched 'em before and will again. Enjoy
Sam ;D
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I agree with that last statment Mike and I am going to ask you guys to play nice, especially Sam. Choose your words carefully when posting and be mindful and respectful. I do not wish to receive any more complaints..
Harry
;)
Not trying to ruffle one's feathers.
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Using mil-dots is not rocket science and if you can read or have any experience what so ever, you can figure 'em out. It's so simple, just go out and set up some targets and shoot. I removed the chairgun software,........You really don't need any software to go out and have fun. I don't take my computer to the shooting range or never have I ever had to consult chairgun while hunting, never had that much time to setup my laptop, when game/varmints presented themselves. Someone savvy should suggest to Hawke, they need to adapt chairgun into a cellphone APP., then everyone could have chairgun everywhere and it would be simple to mount the phone onto his scope or as a hand held trajectory calculator ;D
If you would like to try Chairgun, be prepaired to spend adequate time reading the manual, at least once because mulling through it is not an option and you'll find out if you put garbage in, garbage out is the results. Chairgun is not an easy program to use, read the manual and buy a chronograph. one is required for accurate chairgun use. http://www.hawkeoptics.com/apps/chairgun-pro.html (http://www.hawkeoptics.com/apps/chairgun-pro.html)
I do promote the shooter ready simulation, free demo online or complete program on CD which is for sale. Just stating nicely, ;D This is not a substitute for any actual real world trigger time and it won't help you zero or plot any holdover/under points on a mil-dot reticle. What this simulation will do is Teach you the proper way to use mil-dots as intended for reticle range finding. Mil-dots were not designed for hold over/under as used with airguns, but they have been adapted to serve that purpose quite well. http://www.shooterready.com/lrsdemo.html (http://www.shooterready.com/lrsdemo.html)
Sam 8)
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bottom line on Mil-dots. Mil-dots are a representation of arc based on angle. Imagine that the center is the center of a circle and each mill dot is equivalent to some portion of a degree of arc within that circle. Mil-dots where originally used on a 10x magnification. The manufacturer of the optic should indicate at what power their mil-dot is calibrated to. As for 10x 1mil is basicly3.6in at 100yrds. You can scale it from there, which is what happens when you change the magnification from the set magnification for the mill dot. For me the set magnification is 10x. Mil-dot are mil-dots and they represent a scale. Trajectory is flight path dependent upon velocity. Faster = less time of flight, thus less time for gravity to influence the drop of the pellet. Zero is where you choose it to be and where the pellet hits with in the scale of mil-dots is a product of flightpath. Chairgun is a tool to asses the flight path and help you decide where you may want to establish a zero and give a realistic range of potential performance. If you enter the correct parameters you will find that it is very accurate. In fact I've used it for accurate bullet placement past 100yrs with out adjusting elevation knob. Once you have a solution that matches performance it is all on. You do have to prove everything in the field of course. You can use it for accurate ranging also but i'll not go there unless there is an interest.
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Thank you,
Dave