GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Haso on July 06, 2012, 07:01:22 PM
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Well I think U R all familiar with this rifle... I will tell U everything I know about it...
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/jki8.jpg)
Hatsan .22 barrel:
Mine has Lothar Walther .22 barrel... I know that someo of you may doubt in this( and I have doubt in that and still not sure) because barrel looks same like regular bt65 barrel with 12 grooves and because of that I had email message to LW and they told they indeed selling barrels to hatsan... Then they forwarded my email with rifle serial number to hatsan and they confirmed by my serial number that I have LW barrel. I even have original emails from them if someone wants I can post them...
My conclusion about barrel is following: material processing is 100% same as on regular barrel and they look 100% same except laser barrel sing "made by LW".
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/P6270665.jpg)
So Hatsan probably have LW barrel blanks, and my barrel probably is LW barrel but that does not means that regular barrels are bad... Regular barrel is copy of Lothar Walther barrel so if Hatsan made their homework good U should not have any problems with regular barrel.
Although plenty of hatsan owners in my country had big accuracy issues with regular .22 barrels( I am not lying here) and plenty of first series BT65 .22 were returned to stores because they had accuracy issues. Because of that BT65 .22 is not wanted rifle in my country. BT65 .25 is greatly accepted but BT65 in .22 caliber is not... People in my country prefer AT44...
General thoughts:
Weight:
- For plenty PCP rifle enthusiast this rifle comes to heavy. But however it is not to heavy for me... But it is surely not rifle for kids... For example BT65 is heavy like HW 97 springer rifle...
Synthetic Stock:
- Very nice and adjustable stock in every way(cheek pad, but pad). Very few and much expensier PCP rifles have that kind of stock. Stock is very well balanced with picatinny rail... Some guys were not satisfied with this stock so they did this: :)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/kundak.jpg)
Quattro trigger:
- For me this trigger is pure perfection. U can adjust it to fit your needs by unscrewing trigger protector. All data how to adjust available on google. But however after some use gold plated trigger will became white :) So don't expect that gold will last.
Accuracy in stock untouched version:
- Well I can say if you don't have shooting chronograph U will not be too happy with accuracy. Why? Because of big pressure loss after each shot. So for example you will get 3 shots in 1100 FPS speed with JSB heavy, than next 3 shots in 1030 etc...
But you can be very accurate with this rifle if U find its hotspot. Mine had best hotspot around 190-160bars and that was only 10 shots... I could shoot very accurate but only in this hotspot. It can do more than 30 shots from 200-100 bars but only 10 shots are fully regulated and most accurate... And I was tired of pumping so I decided to go on regulator;
Altaros regulator and accuracy
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/altaros.jpg)
- This is best add on you can buy for this rifle. It is very easy and simple to install.. Follow this procedure:
Unscrew, put air out of cylinder and put it into benchwise(put some rubber on bench vise) and then use either key 17 or french key for unscrewing air valve part. It will go very hard first time but after that you will not need bench vise.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/PB150059.jpg)
Then put regulator into air tube just slightly below threads, and then tighten air valve part without bench vise.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/regla.jpg)
Now take PCP pump and take around 200 pumping from 0-200 bars :) or U can do same without effort if you have Air bottle...
Now regulator is in the air tube but it demands some fine tuning.If U R happy with 20 regulated and high power shots don't touch anything.If U want more shots than that U will have to do following:
Unscrew all screws from synthetic stock. and put rifle out of the stock. In this stage U will have to adjust hammer spring inside rifle( very simple follow 3 stage procedure on picture belov). In order to adjust hammer spring you must unloose 3 tiny allen screws that are holding hammer spring...
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/procedura-1.jpg)
So now U can adjust hammer spring. Use appropriate allen wrench and start loosening to desired FPS speed. For start try to unscrew only 1 full circle, and than try the speed on chronograph.
U should get about 30 regulated shots in about 1000 or more FPS with JSB heavy.
If U R not happy with that shot count adjust hammer spring for desired level. Loosening means less FPS and greater shot count. So U can reach more than 50 regulated shots in 900 FPS range for example.
Now U can pump it up to 215 bars without any problem. And this is recommended by Altaros personal.
U can set it up from 100-150 bars. Mine is set up to 135 bars.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/PA200080.jpg)
This is my current shooting string(add 3 more shots in it because I had 3 "empty shots") with JSB Jumbo 15,9 grains shooting at average 976 FPS... More than 40 regulated shots from 215 - 135 bars.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/Jsb-Jumbo-BT65-9768-fps-1.jpg)
Magazine
- I think magazine does not hold pellets well. Pellets are bouncing and protruding more and more after each shot and I don't like that. This rifle needs better magazine or single shot adapter...
Reloading mechanism or side bolt
- You can see it in pictures above. When you will receive new gun reloading process will go heavy like Mauser M98 :) and then after some time it will unloose and become much smoother than in new stock version. I like SB but I don't like magazine...
mechanical sights
- This is nice feature of this rifle if you don't have rifle scope. Truglo fiber optics. For fans of such shooting discipline. If you have rifle scope take front and rear mechanical sight out.
What groups you can expect with this rifle?
I use CTC measuring method and my average groups at 50 meters are 20 mm, while best groups on same distance are from 10-15 mm.
I have video in which I am shooting first time over scope cam and groupings are not the best... I can do much better without scope cam... But they are good. Especially first group. U can check on tube by typing bt65.
I am member of WFKS® (World Federation of Kalikakia Shooting) you can also check other great shooting videos from other WFKS® members on tube.
Review will continue...
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Haso,
great report and welcome ;) please keep us posted.
Gary
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Welcome Haso, thanks for an excellent post. I have a BT65 in .25 cal and only wish mine was a LW barrel.
David
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Welcome Haso, thanks for an excellent post. I have a BT65 in .25 cal and only wish mine was a LW barrel.
David
You know that at some point I expect to see you and that rifle, yes?
cheers,
Douglas
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Welcome Haso, thanks for an excellent post. I have a BT65 in .25 cal and only wish mine was a LW barrel.
David
I think U don't have to get LW barrel for your .25... Plenty of people in my country reported great accuracy with stock hatsan barrel in that caliber... Even better than my .22 with LW barrel... If U R not happy with it for now little work on this rifle will lead you to great accuracy...
You can get more shot count by loosening hammer spring tension... Or by simply putting some rubber seal under valve look this:
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/2229045CIMG5424.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/faso.jpg)
It will do for increasing shot count but it is not near as good as regulator... So I recommend regulator only...
Some regulators needs drilling, and they disable front bar pressure gauge so U can only rely on pump or fill station pressure gauge...
Altaros regulator is plug & play... No drilling... Easy adjustable... Shows correct bar pressure on bar pressure gauge, and when I compared to other regulators from my friends my is more consistent then their...
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Thank you Haso, again some great advice here. Can you tell us where to get the Altaros regulator ?
David
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The man has his own web page here:
altaros.cz/
It has regulators for marauders, condors, air arms series, bsa etc...
And I can tell U that they are simple and working 8)
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Hi Haso,
I've ordered a regulator from altaros, in the instructions he says to remove the O ring from the cylinder valve. I notice you haven't done this, does it make any difference?
Peter
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Friend U got the latest version from him...
I got older and longer version...
I can not put link on the forum but go on you tube & write altaros bt65,
You have installation video of newest regulator there...
I decided to set mine at 1080 FPS with JSB Jumbo .22...
I got only 23 regulated shots with max spread 10 FPS but accuracy remains very good...
I hardly wait to get JSB Jumbo Heavy 18,1 gr because I expect average groups 20 mm or less...
Now average groups are around 1 inch (the best groups much better than that of course)
U will see my 50 meters shooting video on you tube when typing words above so U will see how regulator works...
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As much as I wanted to like my BT65SW I had to sent it back for a refund. The fit and finish work on these guns leaves a lot to be desired. Hope your guns are better then mine.
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Great post and very good information. Pictures and links are always welcome.
Click on the English Link at top right. Some fantastic info on many PCP's and regularors.
http://www.altaros.cz/ (http://www.altaros.cz/)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMlOZw0oOxk# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMlOZw0oOxk#)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlM_9Unqyhw# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlM_9Unqyhw#)
Gene
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It is very nice and easy handling/tuning rifle... You shouldn't return it...
This is rifle that needs simple additional tuning that consist off following:
1. Put barrel in free float mode:
- Just shoot without barrel band or
- Drilling of barrel band that holds barrel to tight... Why? Well in 12 joules versions this is not necessary because float of barrel is minimal. In 1100 FPS version this is necessary because heavy pellet and enormous amount of air coming through barrel push pellet and barrel up for 2 or 3 mm.
2. Buy regulator
3. U can set up quattro trigger to desired level in two minutes because rifle is set to hard by default.
I can tell U that accuracy at 1080 FPS is 1 inch average at 50 meters and with light pellet like JSB JUMBO... In fact it is same accuracy I had with same pellet shooting at 900&976FPS but of course with less regulated shots...
I expect 20 mm or less groups with JSB JUMBO Heavy 18,1 that is very hard to get at my place...
Gene this is old first line regulator... I got second line and now third line of regulator is active...
So your you tube video is not good...
If U can please put video of new altaros regulator...
Or if someone can tell me why I am not allowed to put any video? I just want to help people because I know a lot about this rifle?
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I really wanted to like this gun but after 1, it was not cheap at nearly $700.00. 2, I returned one gun due to some serious scratches in the stock. 3, the replacement came with scratches both in the wood and bluing. That was it for me after that. Now if we were talking a gun maybe 1/2 its price I may have been able to overlook these flaws.
For 100.00 cheaper I was able to find a used BSA Lone star which I know has much better quality control.
Again nothing personal against the BT65, I really really wanted one badly, but if they cannot get the outside of the gun to look as it should, I was very concerned about the inside of this gun..
Hope you all have better luck then I did.
Grumpy
It is very nice and easy handling/tuning rifle... You shouldn't return it...
This is rifle that needs simple additional tuning that consist off following:
1. Put barrel in free float mode:
- Just shoot without barrel band or
- Drilling of barrel band that holds barrel to tight... Why? Well in 12 joules versions this is not necessary because float of barrel is minimal. In 1100 FPS version this is necessary because heavy pellet and enormous amount of air coming through barrel push pellet and barrel up for 2 or 3 mm.
2. Buy regulator
3. U can set up quattro trigger to desired level in two minutes because rifle is set to hard by default.
I can tell U that accuracy at 1080 FPS is 1 inch average at 50 meters and with light pellet like JSB JUMBO... In fact it is same accuracy I had with same pellet shooting at 900&976FPS but of course with less regulated shots...
I expect 20 mm or less groups with JSB JUMBO Heavy 18,1 that is very hard to get at my place...
Gene this is old first line regulator... I got second line and now third line of regulator is active...
So your you tube video is not good...
If U can please put video of new altaros regulator...
Or if someone can tell me why I am not allowed to put any video? I just want to help people because I know a lot about this rifle?
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I agree with you...
For 700$ there should not be any scratches on stock or bluing... I would returned it also...
I wonder how is so expensive? My synthetic SB model cost 640$ with lothar- walther barrel? 700$ is to much for model with stock barrels... It should cost 500$...
In synthetic version is 300 grams lighter...
So I recommend synthetic version with side bolt...
BT65 is high power rifle...
I could easy tune it more than 1200 FPS with JSB Jumbo but 1080 FPS is enough for 1 gram pellet...
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Mine was 669.00 with the walnut stock. I did run one sting over the chrony. Don't remember the numbers exactly but there was really no power curve. It started out around 1040 FPS and went straight down to around 990 after around 12-13 shots.
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Mine too...
Without regulator I had only 10 usable shots shooting from 185-160 bars... And it is also good shooting from 150-120 but also 10-12 shots...
So I bought regulator...
Power is nothing without a control 8)
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I had planned to order a regulator this week once the replacement gun came. As soon as the Bt65 in synthetic comes back in to stock I may give it another try.
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David, what weight pellets did you use for that string. I have a 44 and it was lousy with 14.3 but excellent with 18.1. They seem to like heavier pellets with factory adjustments.
Regards, Tom
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Sorry for any confusion. Mine was a .25 cal shooting JSB kings.
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I'm meaning it would shoot better with say, 30+ gr pellets. Regards, Tom
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Well this is newest regulator from Altaros that requires different treating than older series like mine... It should be more consistent than older versions... Instalation on AT44 and BT65 is same:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRYeMRDA7Hg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRYeMRDA7Hg#)
This is my first and only shooting video with camera and seben mount. JSB Jumbo 15,9 at 976 FPS... I shoot much better without it but groups are still fine...
You can look here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOXsozKhz48#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOXsozKhz48#ws)
I will make new shooting video with JSB Heavy 18,1 when I get them... But probably without scope camera because U can not be 100% accurate with it...
This are groups from video on picture. 50 meters = 54,6 yds
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/PC120028.jpg)
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Some of you asked how to adjust or remove hammer spring so here is BT65 diagram.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/bt65-diagram.jpg)
P.S.
It is sad but I can not get JSB 18,1 in my country so I am not to active in this thread...
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Well I think U R all familiar with this rifle... I will tell U everything I know about it...
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/jki8.jpg)
Hatsan .22 barrel:
Mine has Lothar Walther .22 barrel... I know that someo of you may doubt in this( and I have doubt in that and still not sure) because barrel looks same like regular bt65 barrel with 12 grooves and because of that I had email message to LW and they told they indeed selling barrels to hatsan... Then they forwarded my email with rifle serial number to hatsan and they confirmed by my serial number that I have LW barrel. I even have original emails from them if someone wants I can post them...
My conclusion about barrel is following: material processing is 100% same as on regular barrel and they look 100% same except laser barrel sing "made by LW".
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/P6270665.jpg)
So Hatsan probably have LW barrel blanks, and my barrel probably is LW barrel but that does not means that regular barrels are bad... Regular barrel is copy of Lothar Walther barrel so if Hatsan made their homework good U should not have any problems with regular barrel.
Although plenty of hatsan owners in my country had big accuracy issues with regular .22 barrels( I am not lying here) and plenty of first series BT65 .22 were returned to stores because they had accuracy issues. Because of that BT65 .22 is not wanted rifle in my country. BT65 .25 is greatly accepted but BT65 in .22 caliber is not... People in my country prefer AT44...
General thoughts:
Weight:
- For plenty PCP rifle enthusiast this rifle comes to heavy. But however it is not to heavy for me... But it is surely not rifle for kids... For example BT65 is heavy like HW 97 springer rifle...
Synthetic Stock:
- Very nice and adjustable stock in every way(cheek pad, but pad). Very few and much expensier PCP rifles have that kind of stock. Stock is very well balanced with picatinny rail... Some guys were not satisfied with this stock so they did this: :)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/kundak.jpg)
Quattro trigger:
- For me this trigger is pure perfection. U can adjust it to fit your needs by unscrewing trigger protector. All data how to adjust available on google. But however after some use gold plated trigger will became white :) So don't expect that gold will last.
Accuracy in stock untouched version:
- Well I can say if you don't have shooting chronograph U will not be too happy with accuracy. Why? Because of big pressure loss after each shot. So for example you will get 3 shots in 1100 FPS speed with JSB heavy, than next 3 shots in 1030 etc...
But you can be very accurate with this rifle if U find its hotspot. Mine had best hotspot around 190-160bars and that was only 10 shots... I could shoot very accurate but only in this hotspot. It can do more than 30 shots from 200-100 bars but only 10 shots are fully regulated and most accurate... And I was tired of pumping so I decided to go on regulator;
Altaros regulator and accuracy
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/altaros.jpg)
- This is best add on you can buy for this rifle. It is very easy and simple to install.. Follow this procedure:
Unscrew, put air out of cylinder and put it into benchwise(put some rubber on bench vise) and then use either key 17 or french key for unscrewing air valve part. It will go very hard first time but after that you will not need bench vise.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/PB150059.jpg)
Then put regulator into air tube just slightly below threads, and then tighten air valve part without bench vise.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/regla.jpg)
Now take PCP pump and take around 200 pumping from 0-200 bars :) or U can do same without effort if you have Air bottle...
Now regulator is in the air tube but it demands some fine tuning.If U R happy with 20 regulated and high power shots don't touch anything.If U want more shots than that U will have to do following:
Unscrew all screws from synthetic stock. and put rifle out of the stock. In this stage U will have to adjust hammer spring inside rifle( very simple follow 3 stage procedure on picture belov). In order to adjust hammer spring you must unloose 3 tiny allen screws that are holding hammer spring...
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/procedura-1.jpg)
So now U can adjust hammer spring. Use appropriate allen wrench and start loosening to desired FPS speed. For start try to unscrew only 1 full circle, and than try the speed on chronograph.
U should get about 30 regulated shots in about 1000 or more FPS with JSB heavy.
If U R not happy with that shot count adjust hammer spring for desired level. Loosening means less FPS and greater shot count. So U can reach more than 50 regulated shots in 900 FPS range for example.
Now U can pump it up to 215 bars without any problem. And this is recommended by Altaros personal.
U can set it up from 100-150 bars. Mine is set up to 135 bars.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/PA200080.jpg)
This is my current shooting string(add 3 more shots in it because I had 3 "empty shots") with JSB Jumbo 15,9 grains shooting at average 976 FPS... More than 40 regulated shots from 215 - 135 bars.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Rakijash/Jsb-Jumbo-BT65-9768-fps-1.jpg)
Magazine
- I think magazine does not hold pellets well. Pellets are bouncing and protruding more and more after each shot and I don't like that. This rifle needs better magazine or single shot adapter...
Reloading mechanism or side bolt
- You can see it in pictures above. When you will receive new gun reloading process will go heavy like Mauser M98 :) and then after some time it will unloose and become much smoother than in new stock version. I like SB but I don't like magazine...
mechanical sights
- This is nice feature of this rifle if you don't have rifle scope. Truglo fiber optics. For fans of such shooting discipline. If you have rifle scope take front and rear mechanical sight out.
What groups you can expect with this rifle?
I use CTC measuring method and my average groups at 50 meters are 20 mm, while best groups on same distance are from 10-15 mm.
I have video in which I am shooting first time over scope cam and groupings are not the best... I can do much better without scope cam... But they are good. Especially first group. U can check on tube by typing bt65.
I am member of WFKS® (World Federation of Kalikakia Shooting) you can also check other great shooting videos from other WFKS® members on tube.
Review will continue...
Just so I have this clear. Because I was under the impression that the hammer spring adjustment would be the same as the at44. Unscewing the screw ccw- thats counter clock wise = less power and more shots
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Like this guide here
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=18756.msg163784#msg163784 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=18756.msg163784#msg163784)