GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: D14Jeff on May 27, 2012, 01:59:30 PM
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i'm trying to choose my first modern air gun . last time i had one was as a teen in the 70's ... just a 760 . i'm considering break barrel and co2 guns . as for break barrels ATM i'm leaning towards a XS25 from MM in .22 (.22 will be easier for my fat fingers to play with) . but i'm also interested in the 78 and the 60 . the 60 looks to be more solidly constructed since the barrel is mounted to the receiver and not a breech mounted on a tube . since either will be got from MM i'm not concerned about the leaking issues the 60's had because he goes through every gun before it leaves his shop . the 78 has much more after market mods and options and some of them do look pretty cool , but i doubt i'd invest in them if i have a solid accurate shooter to start with . so what's y'alls opinion of the 78 and the 60 ?
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I would think the best person to ask would be MM. Being that he is easy to talk to. Have not talk to him personally but conversed in personal messages. I know you are not asking about the xs25 and I have heard great things about them. But MM is bringing in a order of B26s. You may ask him about those being that they have a Rekord trigger.
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i spoke to mike a few days ago and he was very helpful and and took the time to answer all my questions . my problem is .... answers usually cause new questions for me . i'm thinking i'm getting a grip on what i want and i do intend to call MM next week after whittle down my questions and have time to digest the info i'm getting . hopefully i'm not being a P.I.T.A. , but i absolutely hate buyers remorse .... even a little bit :( . but i hope to make my purchase in next week or 2 .
thanks again for putting up with me folks . ;)
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The 78 platform has a very good track record of late. Quality has improved greatly. A lot of mod's can be made to improve even further. Lots of possibilitys. The 60's really haven't cought on from what I can tell, not much talk about them.
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Have you looked at the Hammerli 850 Mag it is a repeater. Also the Benjamin Discovery can be shot with CO2.
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the 850 is a pretty gun with nice specs and features , but those big co2 canisters are expensive IMO compared to the little powerletts . i know they make a adapter to use the little ones , but i think it's almost $100 by itself :( .
thanks for the recommendation though . :)
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the 850 is a pretty gun with nice specs and features , but those big co2 canisters are expensive IMO compared to the little powerletts . i know they make a adapter to use the little ones , but i think it's almost $100 by itself :( .
thanks for the recommendation though . :)
paid $26 for the B$A long adapter and 20.00 for 2 9oz tanks,and it cost me 2.57 to fill a tank at DICK'S and i get 320 good shots per fill with my 850 fully mod'd 22 cal.and you don't have to shoot it empty you can leave it charged or remove the tank.
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"the 60 looks to be more solidly constructed since the barrel is mounted to the receiver and not a breech mounted on a tube".
This assumption is incorrect. It is much easier to maintain barrel/receiver alignment on one that has barrel and receiver rigidly mated such as the QB-78.
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Are XS60C's even available or are they still waiting an updated release?
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Mr. DJ14 , I've have both guns and both guns are very well designed.
The xs60 stands out more to me. There is some pros and cons to every AG. The xs60 pros are: very accurate barrels in .22 and .177 cal., light weight, good trigger, and good shoot count. the cons are: not many upgrades, safety is ( in wrong location to me) so-so.
The 78 pros: tons of upgrades ( you can and will change it ) for you in the future, more available knowledge on forums about the 78. So if there is something that you don't like about it you can change it. The cons: none because there are so many upgrades.
Go with the MM tuned qb78 for you first AG.Believe me once you get the first in the door and start shooting you are going to want the AG to shot the best. So the more upgrade that are available for you the better.
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thanks for the continuing comments folks ;)
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A gas gun is a great first choice, a good one shooting CO2 or Air just hits what you aim at. The XS60c and its name branded Ruger equivalent had a rocky start with leaks and other issues. For a first gun I wouldn't want to be there until its reintroduced and proven (ask Mike he was at the factory in China helping them square it away). The QB from MM is hard to beat for a price/performance platform. I have 3 and my friends have several as well, we are mainly shooting them on air now but they are a fine gun.
Be sure to ask Mike, and listen to him like a waiter. If he says don't order the fish today - don't do it, you will be up all night heaving. If he says he's waiting for a new shipment cause the last one's where not up to snuff, ya best wait till he says they are good. It's insider info that you don't get anywhere else on Chinese guns.
The Hammerli is an outstanding general purpose gun. A bit more upfront but its simple and reliable 10 shot repeater, inexpensive clips and great barrel make it an out of the box shooting behavior about as good as CO2 can get. Get a Bryan & Associates long adapter for 9oz paintball tanks and with no modification you have an incredible amount of shots on a great handling platform (agreed the 88gm & caplet options don't make sense).
If I could only have one CO2 gun and especially out of the box with only bolt on options the Hammerli has it all. Downsides, I'm not a plastic stock fan and its already in a high state of tune. It realy is just out of the box and shoot.
Mark
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The new XS-60's will be on the way soon, better safety (down by the trigger) easier cocking and will have all the bugs out. The valve is being changed also for higher shot count with about the same velocity...the one piece reciever will make the rifle more solid than the 78. Price will be about the same as the 78 (possibly lower) and will be available from more than one dealer.
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Be interested to see how that new 60 works out......
IF it were me....and I could save enough (if that is applicable)
I would buy a tuned blackhawk with trigger mod from Mike AND a power tuned AR2078.
I would go with whatever caliber I wanted in both, and hopefully you will find a pellet that works for both.
I usually go .22, so this would warrant either a blackhawk with an extra .22 barrel, OR a b-25 synthetic.
The b-25/blackhawk can shoot very good, and year round. Good overall weight for a spring gun, and you can have Mike shorten the bbl and do a trigger mod that makes the gun a really SWEET all around gun.
The AR2078 is good for about 15 ftlbs on carts and a decent shot count, and will provide MATCH accuracy.
Or you could dedicate the b-25 as a hunting gun, and go .177 and stock config on the AR for a target plinker. Get the bulk fill option for the AR, and go buy some used paintball equiment for cheap bulk options.
For what you are looking for, and probably less than an HW95, you can have 2 fine starter guns from a respected tuner. And he knows the guns he tunes well, he can most of the time walk you thru any "issues" on the phone.
God bless,
Farmer
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Be interested to see how that new 60 works out......
IF it were me....and I could save enough (if that is applicable)
I would buy a tuned blackhawk with trigger mod from Mike AND a power tuned AR2078.
I would go with whatever caliber I wanted in both, and hopefully you will find a pellet that works for both.
I usually go .22, so this would warrant either a blackhawk with an extra .22 barrel, OR a b-25 synthetic.
The b-25/blackhawk can shoot very good, and year round. Good overall weight for a spring gun, and you can have Mike shorten the bbl and do a trigger mod that makes the gun a really SWEET all around gun.
The AR2078 is good for about 15 ftlbs on carts and a decent shot count, and will provide MATCH accuracy.
Or you could dedicate the b-25 as a hunting gun, and go .177 and stock config on the AR for a target plinker. Get the bulk fill option for the AR, and go buy some used paintball equiment for cheap bulk options.
For what you are looking for, and probably less than an HW95, you can have 2 fine starter guns from a respected tuner. And he knows the guns he tunes well, he can most of the time walk you thru any "issues" on the phone.
God bless,
Farmer
x2
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Buy a QB79 for $79 and run it off a 9oz CO2 bottle all summer. When old man winter sets in, buy a 13ci HPA bottle regulated at 1100PSI and support gear (pump, SCBA, etc) and keep on shooting. Best deal in the airgunning world right now are those 79's from Flying Dragon...
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That is a very good option also....if the funds warrant, you could do this QB option......very good advice actually.
I personally would regulate the HPA to the same pressure as the bulk C02...but thats tow-may-toe, tow-mah-toe.
This would give you ONE gun that is capable of year round shooting. The problem that so many of us get into is we get so many guns, that we never really can shoot any one of them to our full potential.
The support equipment is expensive, but may well be worth the price if it means knowing the POI all the time.
I agree with this suggestion as well.
If you like spring guns, buy the two.....but the 79 will pull year round duty and no breaking a bbl between shots.
Good advice Rescue.
God bless,
Farmer
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well , i'm still listening . my local Dick's will refill 9 oz tanks for $2.99 ..... much cheaper than the little bulbs and way way way cheaper than the new air source thingies . so now the MM QB79 is on top of the Co2 list . i think i may be leaning more towards the 79 than the break barrels i'm considering too . as for temp extremes .... i don't like heat and humidity and during summer here in Va you almost never have one without the other :( so when it hit's 90 i'm running inside like a vampire from the rising sun :) . is the 79 still usable in upper 50's to 60 degrees for 20 - 30 yard paper punching ? i'm guess i'd need to shoot higher to compensate for the lower FPS in cold weather .... and that a milidot scope would be real handy for that ???
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I am late to this post, but I have a ar 2079 from a unmentional source. I have the 9 oz. tank and get near 700 shots per fill. It is very accurate and a joy to shoot. especially fora 69 yr.old. My break barrels and pumpers make me tired. I am looking strongly at a zs60 from MM. Didn't know there was a MM when I bought my AR2079, for way too much money. I pay 2.50 at Sports Authority for a fill. That is really cheap shooting. Mine is 177.
Darrell
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I just received a 4x32 Bug Buster for my QB78, and this is how she's shooting, 5m standing. Fantastic rifle, no mods. RC
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D14, if you even look at this post again, I would highly recommend the QB79 from Mike Melick. I bought mine a little while ago, with the two stage trigger installed, and peaked up for speed. At this price, even adding a scope you can shoot alot with the 9oz tanks, and it's accurate!!
I also bought the offset tank adapter because alot of 9oz tanks are over 2"dia., and you need to offset for them. I put a TKO muzzle break on mine too, and it's quiet as heck! DIABLO 18.1gr pellets are my choice for now at least.
PaperPunch1
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I too would go with the now available QB78 or QB78 Deluxe. I will say the stock trigger can use some polish, and the adjustment screws some blue lock tite when you get them where you want them. Other than that, I haven't done a thing to mine and get great enjoyment from it. As for 79 vs 78, price CO2 cartridges in boxes of 25 or 40 from amazon. Sure, cost per shot with the 79 is lower, but at some point it is so cheap to shoot it just doesn't matter. I like the asthetics of the 78 compared to the 79. Don't like that large canister look hanging off the tube.
As regards your springer choice, the B25 is a great rifle. The B26 is a superb rifle. I'd spend the extra coin on the B26 if getting my first springer from MM. Can 't go wrong with either though.
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thanks for the comments folks , but i decided to go with a referbed 392 from R&L along with the INTEGRABASE and a can of benji .22 pellets for $154.89 and qualifies for free S&H ;D
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Well lets see some pictures..... All words and no pictures.... :(
:( :( Gene
D14, if you even look at this post again, I would highly recommend the QB79 from Mike Melick. I bought mine a little while ago, with the two stage trigger installed, and peaked up for speed. At this price, even adding a scope you can shoot alot with the 9oz tanks, and it's accurate!!
I also bought the offset tank adapter because alot of 9oz tanks are over 2"dia., and you need to offset for them. I put a TKO muzzle break on mine too, and it's quiet as heck! DIABLO 18.1gr pellets are my choice for now at least.
PaperPunch1
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LOL , i hear ya ... i'll be ordering it in about 2 weeks :)