GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: Petey on May 10, 2012, 11:10:26 PM
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I got my HW30s a few weeks back ...I love it ...when I first got it I could hit anything at will.. It was like cheating. Take few shots ,,Laugh do it again. Too easy.
But lately everything is going out the window.
I think some of it may be a optical thing ...my RX and the scope at certain angles I know does not work.
I tried three pellets, all were disappointing. I started with JSB Express 7.87. when I got the 30 that's what I was shooting. I was literally picking numbers on the target . It was that easy.
Life couldn't be better.
Now I don't know why... but i can not hit the center target.....and when I go to the right or left the shots are way off.
I can not shoot open sights to save my life....but I can do better than this with my little Norica 56.
Targets are at 15yrds all 5 shots/ AG has just short of one tin through her and still Diesels.
What a smell :o
JSB 7.87 ( these are what I started with in the beginning)
JSB 8.44
FTT 8.64
I've heard of some ag's wondering about a bit and then settling. Don't know about HW's. Never had one before.
What to do?
Thanks
Petey.
Target one:JSB 7.87.. Center -first 5 shots // 2 left- 4 shots ///3 =8 shots all over /
/4= 5 shots //5 = 5 and very low
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/HW30%20TRGT/IMG_1892.jpg)
Target Two: JSB 8.44 Center 5 // left#2 =5 shots // right #3 = 5 shots //4 = 4 shots//5= 3
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/HW30%20TRGT/IMG_1893.jpg)
Target three: FTT 8.64 Center = 5 low in the ten ring // 2 left- 2 low //3 right= 2 low //4 lower= all over// 5= 5 vertically. From picking number out of the target at will to this.... :'(
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/HW30%20TRGT/IMG_1894.jpg)
back to the JSB 7.87.....all out the window at this point.
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/HW30%20TRGT/IMG_1896.jpg)
My $80.00 Norica with 10 pound trigger.
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/IMG_5080.jpg)
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First, clean the barrel. Nothing aggressive, just pull a few patches.
Second, scope parallax can easily cause shot inconsistency. If you can rig up some open sights and a benchrest, see if the rifle is still capable of shooting a tight group. That can help you narrow down the issue to scope or shooter.
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usually when I see vertical stringing like that it IMO its your hold on the rifle or you have a seal issue, check your stock screws and if all else fails try a new scope! also you could have gotten a bad batch of pellets JMO :P
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usually when I see vertical stringing like that it IMO its your hold on the rifle or you have a seal issue, check your stock screws and if all else fails try a new scope! also you could have gotten a bad batch of pellets JMO :P
^^^^^^^^^ Mark beat me to it. Theses are all worth taking a look at. Will more then likely fix you right up
Bart
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Dieseling still occasionally is fine, but every 10 or so shots (if that frequent) lends me a clue that seal may be nicked or just not sealing well.
It s the HW version, so you should have decent open sights....remove the scope, and see what she does open.
God bless,
Farmer
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Seal possibly! Have you seen any velocity discrepancies in a shot string?
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Ok , like Mark said....get back to the basics.... funny how we forget these things at times.
So I gave it some thought..
what has changed?
1) My shooting position for one..couldn't find my favorite rest(Pillow) ....The puggies took it. So my height and usual alignment were different.
It was also 90 degrees out :P
2) Although I inspect my pellets before loading.. I was getting more undesirable pellets from the bottom of the tin = Got a new tin...much better in appearance. I think that because the progression rate to the end of the tin is so slow ..I didn't notice the steadily degrading quality. After all , every time you pick up a tin, the pellets get jumbled about and incur small amounts of damage whether we notice it or not.
3) I need to work on my breathing....this i have discovered causes me more missed shots.
4) Checked all the screws.... whoever put this AG together was a gorilla. *** The adjustment screw for the trigger weight....unbelievably hard to turn..It's causing my screw driver to twist..I put some penetrating oil on a q-tip and applied it to the screw & let it set.
Aluminum in steel without any lube ? been sitting a while not much better. In fact the aluminum is starting to yield. If it fails , 'ill just grind off the top and re-slot it..but I don't think it should be this tight. any one else have experience with these?
5) Ran few patches down the barrel...clean.
I still want to run it over the Chrony , but it's darn hot out there right now.
Today I went out to yard...reclaimed my pillow from the puggies. Set the 30 on the pillow....attempted to be as hands off and neutral as possible.. things got better.
On the pillow hands off.....The 2-3 flyers were all me.
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/HW30%20TRGT/IMG_5094-1.jpg)
On the rest A hold loose as possible.
Shots 1-3 lower right. 3-6 upper right// Then clockwise..i went for the numbers 3,5,6,7,8 and the bull.
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/HW30%20TRGT/IMG_5095.jpg)
The numbers are only 1/8 inch //15 yards
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/HW30%20TRGT/IMG_5096.jpg)
The Puggies....not happy I took back my pillow while they were watching TV.... oh yes the little one is very talented with the remote. ::)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/allphotos941.jpg)
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OUT the window again....breaking out the Chrony.
Be back soon.
back....here they are
Chrony numbers, JSB Express 7.87gr
Hi 622.5
lo 608.5 this came right before the hi.
AV 613.1
ES 14.05
SD 4.12
616.6
609.6
611.7
613.6
613.0
614.9
610.8
609.7
608.5
622.5 Dieseled = smelled horrible
Now compared to these numbers for the same round it would seem i'm doing ok. http://www.straightshooters.com/weihrauch-hw30s-.177-beech.html (http://www.straightshooters.com/weihrauch-hw30s-.177-beech.html)
** hit the "our take" tab.**
if I can believe the chrony tape I got with the AG it's come down from the mid to hi 630's as I believe it should...don't know....my previous two break barrels never made it to broken in stage...both failed miserably.Nuff said. if anyone sees something in the numbers please let me know.
Going or the scope next and check it out. Shooting with open sights is never pretty for me...with my RX I can never hit the Bull... i will make two very nice tight groups....one under the bull and one over the bull....LOL it's true.
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exhale before squeezing the trigger petey , that might help also
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Thanks Robert.
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Lookin good Petey! :P
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Lookin good Petey! :P
Mark,
How long does it take for these things to settle down? seems to diesel about 33 percent of the time.
I'm thinking i developed a bad habit some where..i went out a again and I'm hitting everything to the left.
I got it!
I have Air gun Madness..that's it. :o
How else can i go from sniping numbers to couldn't hit a bullet with the broad side of a barn.
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It could take a 1k shot or more! the problem is HW over lubes their gun some of the time and the only way to correct this problem is to take it apart and remove the excess lube, I'll bet the face of the seal is pact full of lube I've seen this many times with new HW guns! even my own! :P
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Yikes! I do not wish to break down my new AG.....I'll give it till 12-1500 rounds then see.
Thanks Mark!
Petey.
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the issue is gonna be they use a grease and not an oil for lube it my never burn off and will cook your piston seal! here's some info that will let you see what I"m talking about :P
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1240111527/The+Anatomy+of+a+Tune- (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1240111527/The+Anatomy+of+a+Tune-)
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@ Mark ,
I follow you 100% and greatly appreciate all the wonderful information you share,but I just can't warm up to the idea of having to take it apart..
I went there with two previous AG's .a Titan and a NP. That's why i bought a HW. This is starting to become no fun. Let's say I open it up....I should clean it out and put in a new seal ? So why not wait till it bakes? For all i know it's cooked already. My Titan was fried in less than 500 rounds.
I like the kink you posted.
The HW30s I have is very smooth and quiet....The 50s I picked up the other day could use some help.
If I were to open it up ..i would just clean it and inspect the seal...if good ,put it back. Taking the NP apart was straight forward.....not too certain about the 30s.
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try setting it muzzel down in a very warm room prefereably in the sun and shoot it after setting for 2 days . i did that to a gun that was packed full of grease and the first 5-6 shots were loud and smoked like black powder but it cleaned up faster. if it seems to help , set it like that several more times as heat will soften the grease up and setting upside down lots might work its way out of the chamber . might not do it all but its a free try
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Robert... I can always count on you ! I got nothing to loose and only stand too gain.
guess what? my 30 is doing a head stand. LOl
maybe i should take a hair dryer to it? Hehe
I'll let ya know happens.
Petey.
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I really, REALLY hate to be the one to tell you Petey but you have obviously contracted a case of BAS. (Bullseye Avoidance Syndrome) ;D
Even Weirauch can miss a few burrs in the compression tube and a cut seal could well be your problem. HW overlubes and Diana underlubes so you'll need to open it up to correct it in any case so delaying doing so will only exacerbate the pain.
FWIW----if the HW-30 uses a 25mm piston seal I have been using the Crosman Quest seals on everything that size very successfully-----and they're TRULY 'Cheaper Than Dirt'. HTH, Tom
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Pete chances are you'll be ok, I'd take it apart clean it up lightly re lube it and shoot it! but while you have it apart add the cocking in cert to protect the tube from galling while your at it JMO bro :P
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I really, REALLY hate to be the one to tell you Petey but you have obviously contracted a case of BAS. (Bullseye Avoidance Syndrome) ;D
Even Weirauch can miss a few burrs in the compression tube and a cut seal could well be your problem. HW overlubes and Diana underlubes so you'll need to open it up to correct it in any case so delaying doing so will only exacerbate the pain.
FWIW----if the HW-30 uses a 25mm piston seal I have been using the Crosman Quest seals on everything that size very successfully-----and they're TRULY 'Cheaper Than Dirt'. HTH, Tom
FINGERS in EARS....Blah Blah Blah ....nenenenenene dadadadadaada can't hear you !
Seriously, I'm not having fun with this...
I'll send it to you...you do it,...LOL
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Pete chances are you'll be ok, I'd take it apart clean it up lightly re lube it and shoot it! but while you have it apart add the cocking in cert to protect the tube from galling while your at it JMO bro :P
(Stomping my feet) NO....i don't want to... :P LOL
I was going to ask if had to open her up to install the insert.
really I'm not used to having too work on new items...i love the 30 but this blows.
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well petey i try but sometimes i fail. haha cheep advice . i had a quest that was soaked in oil n grease . stood it up barrel end down in the hot sun inside the house for 2 days . when i opened it ,there was a bunch of lube running down the barrel . cleaned it and stood it back in the same spot . it shortly cleared out and quit dieseling . oh yes the wife went to get her relatives . its outdoor time for 2 weeks remember what i pm ed you .
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Mine are still standing on their heads..... I'm going to try your idea before i give in to taking apart a new $$$$ airgun. This is just like when I used to race.....buy a new bike , take it home , rip it apart.
polish this hone that ,,port ,,new suspension.....
2 weeks and $$$$$$$$$$$$$ Cubic dollars later..you could go have fun..
I want to be done with that kinda stuff. I have no more $$$$ and very little patience.
But I do wish for everyone to know how much I appreciate their help. It truly means a great deal to me.
Thank you all.
Petey.
And Robert,that little two week problem of yours....Let me suggest Ether and Duct Tape! ::)
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Pete I know its not what most of us expect to do with a new gun but I've had to do the same thing with almost every HW/Beeman gun I've ever bought and a few of my AA guns, if you need some help feel free to ask! :P
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Pete I know its not what most of us expect to do with a new gun but I've had to do the same thing with almost every HW/Beeman gun I've ever bought and a few of my AA guns, if you need some help feel free to ask! :P
The mechanical aspects of working on the 30 don't concern me ....my true concern lies in changing the characteristics of the 30... Right now it's so smooth and quiet.... If I go in there and clean everything out , how much of this and that do I put back and will the 30 have the same characteristics when reassembled? (All my previous experience is with pumpers)
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good question! if you can live with it the way it is don't touch it unless you have to! :P
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Ok ..so should I just open it up and wipe off the face of the piston only ? Or Clean out the whole thing?
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if your gonna do it do it right! you'll need to clean out the tube and all! if you just pull out the spring and piston clean the piston and seal and the tube and relube the seal with moly lightly and reassemble the gun and you should be ok JMO :P
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Unless you spend $1000+ on a springer you need to stop thinking of it as a 'rifle' and consider it a rifle kit. The parts are there to make a rifle but they're unfinished. That's why the tuners make the big $!;o)
Sorry to inject too much reality into the thread. Tom
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What would be my best course of action? Sending it away to be tuned is not an option.
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What would be my best course of action? Sending it away to be tuned is not an option.
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Just what Mark 611 recommends in post #19. Plus deburr the inside of all holes in the compression tube. Polish the cocking slots in both piston & tube and don't ignore Mark's advice about adding Macarri's cocking link insert! The way the cocking link is made means that it becomes a course but effective file. I've worked on heavily used R-7s that had the tube filed over half-way through by the link!
Edited to add:
<http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,7246.0.html>
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We can walk you thru what need's to be done it's not that hard to do at home and can be done without a lot of money but their are parts you'll need to buy like the JM cocking arm incert $3.50 and some lube and sand paper if thats all you can afford we'll help ya! :P
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refer to post #19... didn't notice we had gone this far..HaHa.
Ok .... I have the insert and the Moly paste. 400 and 600 wet dry, A spring compressor, brain and tools. Lol
What else do I need?
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thats about it unless you have a brake hone and some tar for the spring? :P
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I have tar.... . Funny .... I don't recall who , but someone had suggested the insert when I first got the 30...as I was ordering the insert I noticed $9.00 shipping :o...so I got the moly and the tar..Just in case.
Didn't figure I would get to use it this soon.Lol
But what the heck...let's learn something here.
A Hone....I have many ...just no brake hones.(I do my own straight razors)
I think they are fairly inexpensive....what grit?
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Pete any further tuning info from me will need to be done in privet, I don't want to upset anyone who my have a differing opinion on how I do things + their is certin info I don't post openly cause it causes problems! so PM me and I'll give you my # :P
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"What else do I need?"
Start with the thread address I pasted in as an edit in post # 31. Open all the references in that thread and get to know your R-7/HW30 intimately before turning the first screw. The only fiddly part in working on a R-7 is getting the holes in the compression tube and breech plug lined up absolutely correctly to be sure that you don't crossthread the screw that holds it all together. Tuning an R-7 is about as easy as it can get!
If you have questions use both a new thread about the tune and PMs to get our attention BEFORE you take a wrong tune. Tom