GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: American Arms on May 04, 2012, 12:08:15 AM
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Hi guys I received the Hatsan Gas Ram today this is the samples and we Will be doing testing before launch in the market. This one is 75 Kg = 150 Lbs. spring for the 125, 135. and 155. more models are coming soon.
Anybody interested e mail me tacticalzone@aol.com to make a mailing list for the prospective buyers.
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Hi guys I received the Hatsan Gas Ram today this is the samples and we Will be doing testing before launch in the market. This one is 75 Kg = 150 Lbs. spring for the 125, 135. and 155. more models are coming soon.
Anybody interested e mail me tacticalzone@aol.com to make a mailing list for the prospective buyers.
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This might boost Hatsan sale and make already Hatsan owners happy.
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This might boost Hatsan sale and make already Hatsan owners happy.
the piston sure looks nice
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Any idea what kind of fps you can get from it?
This might boost Hatsan sale and make already Hatsan owners happy.
the piston sure looks nice
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Hi guys I received the Hatsan Gas Ram today this is the samples and we Will be doing testing before launch in the market. This one is 75 Kg = 150 Lbs. spring for the 125, 135. and 155. more models are coming soon.
Anybody interested e mail me tacticalzone@aol.com to make a mailing list for the prospective buyers.
75kg = 150lbs.. no it don't..
1kg = 2.2lbs
75kgs x 2.2 = 165lbs ... in fact yer under selling it....
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John,
Is that "75 kg = 165 lbs" the Final force, the Initial force, or the Average force for that Gas Ram ?
The reason I am asking is that, here in the TURKISH Gate, we have already been testing a Gas Ram in a Hatsan 125 with these specifications :
Moeller "RED" 140 BAR Initial Force = 158 lbs / Final Force = 236 lbs / Average Force = 197 lbs
The NEXT Gas Ram will have:
Moeller "YELLOW" 180 BAR Initial Force = 203 lbs / Final Force = 304 lbs / Average Force = 253.5 lbs
As you can see, they both exceed 165 lbs of force, in all areas . . . Your Gas Ram sounds like it may be a "BLUE" level gas ram and will be much weaker than "original factory" performance levels, when tested.
Thanks . . .
Dave
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I'll wait and see what the results are......
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If these Gas Rams are rated "75 kg = 165lbs", I believe that we will see "de-tuned" performance in the rifles, when tested by JOAO . . . The Laws of Physics say it can't be EQUAL or HIGHER . . .
Mike was already getting 900 fps with the Moeller "RED" gas ram, using 14.3 gr CPHP's, with an Initial Force of 158 lbs / Final Force of 236 lbs / Average Force of 197 lbs.
Velocity with the Factory Spring was 958 fps with 14.3 gr CPHP's . . .
Anything less in performance is a "de-tune".
We should be getting numbers soon for the Moeller "YELLOW" gas ram - Initial Force 203 lbs / Final Force 304 lbs / Average Force 253.5 lbs . . .
My "fingers are crossed", hoping to see 1000+ fps w/ CPHP's at full 180 BAR pressure ( 950 fps w/ 18.1 gr . . . 870 fps w/ 21.1 gr ) . . .
The "numbers" predict a "ballpark" 14% increase in performance over the "RED" gas ram ( 1029 fps w/ 14.3 gr CPHP's, generating 33.6 FPE ) . . .
A second formula predicts performance to be slightly lowed at 32.9 FPE ( 1018 fps w / 14.3 gr CPHP's ) . . .
Remember, these are just "hypothetical numbers", until Mike can test the Moeller "YELLOW" gas ram to see its full potential . . .
Dave
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And I am getting about 30 fpe with the Crosman XL gas spring...after a new piston seal, honing, deburr and lube.
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And I am getting about 30 fpe with the Crosman XL gas spring...after a new piston seal, honing, deburr and lube.
Mark,
If you can post the Cocking Effort numbers ( throughout the cocking cycle ) again, we can determine "Force Numbers" for the NP XL gas ram, based on mechanical advantage values.
Dave
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Smackey54, what is the shipped cost on the Crosman XL gas spring ? I think they are about half the cost of a aftermarket gas spring . Brent
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Since the guns you are working on will be apart. Could you give the existing spring size O.D. of spring x wire thickness x number of coils. Also the O.D. of the piston seal.
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Smackey54, what is the shipped cost on the Crosman XL gas spring ? I think they are about half the cost of a aftermarket gas spring . Brent
Brent,
From what I have heard, I think they are about $30.00, plus shipping ( not verified )
Dave
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And I am getting about 30 fpe with the Crosman XL gas spring...after a new piston seal, honing, deburr and lube.
Ok you got everyones attention! Must be the WFH 22 cal. What fps and what size pellets.
How was the fit? JM seal? Less force than the yellow gas rams to cock I bet.
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Smackey54
where are you my brother ??
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Tarheel....I have nothing to measure cocking effort in pounds through the cycle.
Crosman XL Gas Springs are $30 shipped.
30 FPE with 14.3gr CPHPs in .22 WFH with Crosman XL gas spring.
Been out of town for the weekend.....sorry guys!
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Thats about 970 fps with a 14.3 gr cphp. Not bad...how does it feel cocking compared to the yellow moller. How smooth is the shot cycle?
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Since the guns you are working on will be apart. Could you give the existing spring size O.D. of spring x wire thickness x number of coils. Also the O.D. of the piston seal.
I will pm you that info when I get back into mine if you have not already receive it by then. be glad too/ it will be a while but I'll make sure i get you that info.
Mike
I
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Thats about 970 fps with a 14.3 gr cphp. Not bad...how does it feel cocking compared to the yellow moller. How smooth is the shot cycle?
Cocking effort with the XL gas ram was much, much easier and smoother. I did polish the piston, hone the cylinder, deburr, replace the piston seal with a JM seal, lube it properly, and make the centering adapter for the base of the piston and the brass tophat for the piston shaft. I doubt that it will last as long as one of the Die Gas Springs, but for now it shoots great and consisitently. And...I can get 2 XL gas springs for the price of one of the die gas springs.
I lied again.....it was 29.45 fpe in the .22 with the XL spring.
This was back on the "Inside the WFH" thread.....
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,29419.80.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,29419.80.html)
Mark
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Cocking effort with the XL gas ram was much, much easier and smoother. I did polish the piston, hone the cylinder, deburr, replace the piston seal with a JM seal, lube it properly, and make the centering adapter for the base of the piston and the brass tophat for the piston shaft.
I lied again.....it was 39.45 fpe in the .22 with the XL spring.
Mark,
Please re-check your math . . . There is no way a Crosman NP XL piston is going to generate 39.45 FPE . . .
(1114.45 x 1114.45 x 14.3 ) / 450240 = 39.45 FPE ( Your gun would have to be driving 14.3 gr CPHP's at 1114.45 fps - NO WAY ! )
The NP XL rifle struggles to break 900 fps w / 14.3 gr pellets ( 25.8 fpe )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJbsw1_KKCg#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJbsw1_KKCg#ws)
Dave
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No need to check the math! Peckin' Pingers!!! Typo...supposed to be 29.45 fpe. I modified the post...thanks for catching that.
Mark
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No need to check the math! Peckin' Pingers!!! Typo...supposed to be 29.45 fpe. I modified the post...thanks for catching that.
Mark
WHEW . . . LOL !
29.45 fpe = 963 fps w / 14.3 gr. CPHP's . . . That is with the Crosman / Benjamin Trail NP XL "Nitro Piston" .
Mike got 958 fps with the stock spring 29.15 fpe, for comparison
Moeller "Red" 900 fps = 25.73 fpe
Moeller "Yellow" Hoping for 1000 fps + w / 14.3 gr CPHP's . . . 31.76 fpe + ( "Numbers" say 1019 - 1029 fps = 32.98 - 33.62 fpe )
Waiting for the gas rams and chrony numbers . . . Fingers Crossed !
Dave
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I got 980fps with stock spring.....30.5fpe...But the shot cycle is so much better with the gas spring....no buzz, twang...simple "thump"
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After removing the Nitro ram and putting the spring back in the WFH .22 mine shot around the 980fps but the gun is a handfull!!! BUZZ,TWANG,JARS YOUR JAWS. Not even like the same gun.
I ordered the XL ram and it is not the same ram that they install new in the WFH. I now understand more about the mod thread and the reason for some of the made parts. I mocked it up last night against the original ram and by a rough measuring it looks as if it will be real close to the original ram. The XL ram IS 1/4" shorter and the shaft is 1/4" shorter as well vs the WFH conversion. This tells me the inventor of the mod in the thread did some home work and shared it with us. So thanks for sharing. Saving the other parts for OLD YELLAR.
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If this "yellow" ram gives the same or more FPS,in .25 cal., I may be in for the swap.
I like the power of the current spring,but not so much the spring twang.
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I think in this conversion we are going to need the bushing for the ram like AIR GUN TOYS sell for the crosman to help stabilize the piston on the cocking. The WFH nitro I broke down has it. The only difference is this one is it will spin on the ram body where as AGT one you glue on and is rigid. The WFH one must have a step that locks on the grove on the ram body. Also the rear bushing will also allow the ram to spin as well.
The kits they are going to sell may have all this in them. Prior to these kits being advertised only the vendors would install them. I think this goes back to what the forum has encountered. Liability!!!!! You are assuming all the liability for your mods and not just anyone can do the mods due to knowledge. The tuners are all taking on the liability when they do a tune. These guns are not TOYS and cause serious injuries. Stored energy can be a killer.
We have to remember that the GTA IS READ ALL OVER THE WORLD BY ALL TYPES OF PEOPLE. Even though we share our mods the GTA has the say on what they concider SAFE or not. Again it is a liability issue and safety issue that they have to deal with. Also as all forums, there are RULES that apply on the front end of joining and we some times forget or push the envelope unintended. JMO I stand to be corrected.