GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: Nicholas440 on April 04, 2012, 01:02:15 AM
-
When I got my new 135 I put a few pellets through it that I had on hand, and I was getting the loud supersonic crack from it, much like the .22 rimfire rifle I have. The pellets were 7 grain and they were breaking the sound barrier.
After posting about my new 135, many of the guys here mentioned that I should go to a heavier pellet, something like 10 or 10+ grain pellets to avoid damaging the gun due to this hard slam it was giving me.
I was going to order a tin of 10 grain pellets to try and see how they fly, and if the crack was toned down some, when I came across a tin of pellets I had in my supplies box. A few years ago I bought some Gamo Rocket pellets, the ones with the little steel ball in the center that resembles a BB . The only problem I had was I had thrown away the cardboard that the pellet tin comes with that tells the pellet weight etc, on it, and the tin has a clear plastic lid, and does not say anything about the pellets on it other than a warning label on the bottom.
Upon doing some online research on these pellets I found that they are a 9.6 grain pellet, which was better than what I was using, so I thought I would try a few of them out. Well, no luck, the 9.6 grain Gamo Rocket, still flies supersonic and cracks just as loud as the lighter ones I was using. Luckily I didnt use many of the lighter ones, probably a dozen at the most I think, maybe a few more. My first thought was that a 9.6 grain pellet should be fine since it's really close to a 10 grain. So my theory, is that even a 10 grain is going to go supersonic in this magnum gun, and I'm almost willing to bet that this is the scenario with any of the new Hatsan 1250 FPS guns.
I don't think this 9.6 grain pellet is going to harm the gun any, I'm sure this gun is built tough enough to handle the shock and recoil. I'm not sure how happy the piston and spring mechanism is though each time that it slaps out these heavier pellets with a thundering crack. I was hoping that 9.6 grain pellets would have toned it down some and it may have, it's just that the sound is about the same. When Hatsan said these new guns were capable of 1250 fps they were not joking.
Now' I've got to get an even heavier pellet and see if it tames this beast a little more. I've seen some really heavy .177 pellets and I'm not sure I want to get into a 14 grain or more pellet, Im sure this gun can handle them, but to be honest I really do like the loud crack, it feels like I'm shooting my .22 magnum rimfire almost, but I don't want to be doing any damage to this new 135 magnum.
What I plan on doing is getting a heavier pellet to try out, have any of you guys with these 1250 fps guns tried a 12 grain pellet yet? What weight have most of you guys been using? Do you think that anything from lets say a 12 grain on up will tame these beasts so they stay under the sound barrier? Has anyone put 14 grain pellets through these 1250 fps guns yet ? Some say going at 1250 fps is not good because accuracy falls off and pellets begin to tumble or curve easily. I don't know because I am a novice to air rifle shooting, but I am learning, and I am having fun, and all you guys here at GTA are great, you all have a tremendous amount of knowledge and I appreciate all your comments, both good or bad on how I'm doing of not doing something right with my new Hatsan 135.
Any thoughts on this supersonic shooting are welcome, I'm just amazed that you can get such a punch from a pellet rifle.
These are the Gamo Rockets I found in the supply box with some older light weight pellets..
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/Nick49_photos/gamorockets.jpg)
Nick,
-
Your Hatsan 135 is just still dieseling. They shouldn't be going supersonic. And I've never heard of a magnum .177 sending a 10.2 gr JSB or 10.5 gr Crosman Premier past 1,100+ FPS, so I doubt those will go supersonic. Keep shooting your gun more... You need to fully break it in.. it's fine to use the Gamo's you've on hand, but put in an order for some heavier pellets.
-
Too bad there isn't a chronograph available to get some accurate velocity numbers .
IDEA : Is there a "Paintball Field" near you ?
If there is, most of them have chronographs to check gun velocities. Give them a call and see if they will let you test your rifle . . .
PS - Don't be a "Bonehead" and shoot the Chrony, as so many on GTA have done . . . LOL !
Dave
Dave
-
Any thoughts on this supersonic shooting are welcome, I'm just amazed that you can get such a punch from a pellet rifle.
Nick,
There is nothing to be gained from allowing your AG to send pellets to SS velocities except noise. Your accuracy will be severely degraded, the gun internals placed under a lot more stress than necessary, and you'll lose a lot of enjoyment simply because you have gun that can't hit anything with consistency that needs to be fixed often. PLus, with heavier pellets you'll not only be more accurate, but you'll get more energy onto the target as well.
I'd get some Crosman Premier Heavy 10.5 gr, H/N Barracuda Match 10.65 gr, JSB Diabolo Exact Heavy 10.34 gr and go from there till I found pellets the gun likes, and avoid anything below 10 grain entirely. From what I've read, anything 9 grain or less goes SS out of these guns.
-
Here's some hopefully useful fps comparisons for you,, based on the model 135 giving off "no more" than 24 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle, which I personally doubt it would in .177 cal, but that's still huge...
7 gr = 1242 fps
7.5 gr = 1200 fps
8 gr = 1162 fps
8.4 gr = 1134 fps
9 gr = 1095 fps
9.6 gr = 1060 fps
10gr = 1039 fps
10.5 = 1014 fps
Remember, these are a guide only to help you pick and choose your pellet weights and end velocity range... Also remember that the way maunfacturers arrive at their quoted velocities is unclear and usually misleading, so use their figures like you use a loan sharks promise of a good and fair repayments plan - With caution...!!! Hahahahahahaha...
-
And further to the choice,,,
Also remember that it's not all happening at the muzzle or the first few yds/meters of flight. Try to look at downrange performance too, as many of the lighter pellets have a smaller BC (ballistic co-efficient), meaning that velocity and therefore energy will quickly fall off the further they travel and what looks good on paper and at short to moderate ranges, can turn to custard at extreme ranges. While it's not a hard and fast rule,, heavier pellets seem to retain more of the intial energy for a longer time because the diameter stays the same but both weight and length may get larger and depending on the shape and other characteristics of the pellet in question, the BC gets higher, resulting in better ballistics performance and possibly a better overall trajectory. Don't get fooled or drawn into the argument about velocity, velocity, velocity, because velocity is only one factor in airgunning... Velocity has its uses but also has its drawbacks, especially around that 1120fps (give or take) at sea level mark - the sound barrier. Accuracy should also be in amongst your primary concerns and should be placed slightly ahead of velocity. I'd settle for a 1050 fps single hole performer rather than a 1250 fps shotgun type grouping pattern any day of the year...
Try to choose a balance bewteen weight & velocity. One particular way to get started on the right path is to stick to known performers. I wont name names here as this is another hotly contested area of contention full of mostly opinions as opposed to fact. People have their favourite brands and individual pellets but please read as much as possible from others who use certain pellets and try to learn of the pellets' habbits in flight and try to take heed of at least some of the offerrings when it comes to pellet preferences from others...
Just personally, I have said and will say again, that in a rifle of power such as yours, I'd use a pellet of about 10+ grains as many of the pellets available in this range are usually also known performers. You can get the best of all worlds - taming the velocity,, retaining energy and starting out with accuracy...
-
I have the 125 hatsan, when it was in working order. It would send crosman ultra mags 10.5 at 970 fps, after being broken in.
-
Thanks for the replies guys, I've been doing a lot of reading, and I want to try a heavier pellet.
I've read a lot of pellet reviews, and it seems the magnum speeds really need something heavy , which would be at least 10.3 grains or more. I'm curious as to what pellet weight did Hatsan use to come up with these velocity's of 1250+ in these magnum guns. They must have used a 5 or 6 grain pellet to get those speeds I think.
So, I'm going to see if I can find some decently priced 10, 13, and 15 grain pellets and see how they work. I made sure the barrel was cleaned, and there doesnt appear to be any oil residue in this barrel so I don't think it's dieseling. In order for an airgun to diesel from what I have read you have to have an oil residue to get a loud rifle crack out of it, correct me if I'm wrong, but thats what I read on all the articles that I Googled up on airgun dieseling. The reason they gave for loud cracking sound was breaking the sound barrier with light pellets that zip along faster than the speed of sound, or at ultra high velocity's. You can do this in almost any pellet rifle by applying a drop of oil to the skirt of the pellet, and it will snap when you shoot it they say. This is very bad for your gun however, and you should never have oil on the pellet, or in the chamber this can ruin any airgun.
I saw several youtube videos of guys adding oil onto a pellet to get it to smoke and diesel when they fired them. Not recommended unless you like throwing your money out the window.
For me, the pellet Brand isn't important right now, it's the weight, because I'm looking to cut down on the sound , then I can check the accuracy. So I'm looking at some cheaper heavy weight pellets to break this gun in with.
-
If it where my gun I would not be to worried about damaging the gun with anything heavier than 7.9 grain pellets like the Crossman Premier hollow points. If Accuracy suffered then I would try different pellets and go up in weight till I was happy.
-
I've read a lot of pellet reviews, and it seems the magnum speeds really need something heavy , which would be at least 10.3 grains or more. I'm curious as to what pellet weight did Hatsan use to come up with these velocity's of 1250+ in these magnum guns. They must have used a 5 or 6 grain pellet to get those speeds I think. So, I'm going to see if I can find some decently priced 10, 13, and 15 grain pellets and see how they work.
If you see the weight vs fps table I did above, you can see that the 7 gr pellet is very close to 1250fps that they claim, which in itself isn't that far out of the realm. Who knows, it may well be a fact that 1250 fps may be able to be reached in this rifle... I have heard of compaines using pellets less that 6gr to get their stated velocities. I based the above table on what I know from these rifles - that they "can" hit lower to mid 20's fpe so I used 24 ft-lbs as the upper limit, not an unrealistic figure... Here's another, based on "approx" 22 ft-lbs at the muzzle...
6.5gr = 1235 fps
7gr = 1190 fps
7.5gr = 1150 fps
8gr = 1115 fps
8.5gr = 1080 fps
9gr = 1050 fps
9.5gr = 1020 fps
10gr = 995 fps
10.5gr = 970 fps
Just a little less velocity but still heaps any way you look at it, and 22 fpe is a very realistic expectation from this rifle...
I know you've been bombarded with numbers and advice but DON'T go too high in pellet weight in a .177 cal springer... Pellets weighting in at 13 and 15 grains are getting far too heavy for this rifle. I bought some Rabbit Ammo at 16 gr in .177 for a PCP I used to have and wouldn't ever entertain any thoughts of using them in any springer I have, even those of the same power levels of your model 135... Absolutely No Way...!!!
I saw several youtube videos of guys adding oil onto a pellet to get it to smoke and diesel when they fired them. Not recommended unless you like throwing your money out the window.
This is air rifle suicide. Nothing more, nothing less... It burns seals like no other process and the extra BANG will kill springs quickly. This is fact, not opinion...
For me, the pellet Brand isn't important right now, it's the weight, because I'm looking to cut down on the sound , then I can check the accuracy. So I'm looking at some cheaper heavy weight pellets to break this gun in with.
Ahhhh, breaking it in, Yes, very important. There seems to be as many different ways as there are people who care to tell you about running in an airgun. I have been told a few over the years which appear to contradict each other at certain points, so I don't feel fully qualified to recommend anything here. The only single piece of advice I can offer here is, again, don't use lighter pellets to run it in,, but for slightly different reasons this time. It is a time when things scrape and grind a little and sometimes full contact between mating surfaces is not completely made.. e.g - piston seal to cylinder and pellet to barrel,, simply because there are minute particles of metal which need to be scraped away during the break-in or settle-in period, therefore some friction may not be as high as when it IS run in,, believe it or not. Using lighter pellet may not give those highly needed cushioning effects at this crucial time. it MAY help to use a slightly heavy pellet at this time for maybe 500 - 1000 shots (at least one containers worth anyway). After that, clean the bore etc then begin to use as normal. I believe that those mid 10 grainers will be good enough to not only use in the long run, but to also run it in with... Always take note of any unusual activity while running in, such as the usual harsh recoil etc etc etc and adjust to suit, although with 10+ grainers I doubt if you'll experience much if any of this. Apart from this, I am not qualified enough to fully help you on this one,, apart from - to say that I have never had anything go wrong during or after the run-in time with any of my multiple airguns...
-
Who knows, it may well be a fact that 1250 fps may be able to be reached in this rifle... I have heard of compaines using pellets less that 6gr to get their stated velocities.
Hatsan don't use light weight pellets for there ratings like a lot of other companys do.
-
Yeah, Hatsan is pretty much straight forward with their advertised velocities. I guarantee if you put one of them 4.2 gr Crosman SSPs in a Hatsan Magnum it will go well over 1450+ FPS.
-
Yeah, Hatsan is pretty much straight forward with their advertised velocities. I guarantee if you put one of them 4.2 gr Crosman SSPs in a Hatsan Magnum it will go well over 1450+ FPS.
I got 1376 fps out of my RWS48 with the .177 SSP's. You'd most likely get close to the 1600fps claimed by the Gamo Socom Extreme.
-
Yeah, Hatsan is pretty much straight forward with their advertised velocities. I guarantee if you put one of them 4.2 gr Crosman SSPs in a Hatsan Magnum it will go well over 1450+ FPS.
I got 1376 fps out of my RWS48 with the .177 SSP's. You'd most likely get close to the 1600fps claimed by the Gamo Socom Extreme.
I believe it, that's pretty scary, 22 FPE out of a .177 magnum springer.
-
to break it in i would use the 10.5gr cpum,they are great in my r.a.m and it has a lot of tins threw it,mostly 16,1gr eunjins for the longest time,now i just shoot 10.5gr.cpum there cheaper,and i don't hunt with it.i use my 22cal wth np for that,those light pellets less than 10.5gr go SS in my r.a.m,i can't shoot anything less than that,i have tried,even 8.9gr go SS.they say that 950fps is the ideal ,so if you get 950 with 10.5 that's near 21fpe,or with 16.1 then its 32.2.but as said earlier you don't need those 16.1 eunjins,my r.a.m is tuned and has a vortek kit in it.besides those heavy pellets are expensive,after 500 or so 10.5gr pellets your canon will tame down some and hopefully settle into a norm,as the barrel seasons if its anything like my r.a.m 120 yard accurate shots with 10.5 cpum pellets should be no problem,so congrats on your new 135 hatsan,enjoy it,best buy on those pellets imo is p.a buy 3 get 1 free.
-
I agree on the heavier pellets, I picked up some 10.34 JSB's at the gun shop, and I put 50 shots through it and there is no difference with 10.34 and the 9.6 grain I was using. It has a long way to go, I'm thinking it's going to need about 200 shots before it gets a little smoother.
It sure is a power house though, you can punch holes clean through a 1/2 inch plywood board at 10 yards. Accuracy isnt bad, it's still giving me large patterns on paper, they group about 2 inches or so at 20 yards. Open sights, I took the scope off until I get enough shots in it to tame it down some. 10.34 grains are still going SS with a loud crack too.
What type of oil are you guys using for the piston? After 250 rounds it says to lubricate the piston but doesnt say if regular gun oil will work or not. I think these piston seals are synthetic material so oil type may not be as important as it is with leather seals.
-
Do not put oil in it.
-
I agree on the heavier pellets, I picked up some 10.34 JSB's at the gun shop, and I put 50 shots through it and there is no difference with 10.34 and the 9.6 grain I was using. It has a long way to go, I'm thinking it's going to need about 200 shots before it gets a little smoother.
It sure is a power house though, you can punch holes clean through a 1/2 inch plywood board at 10 yards. Accuracy isnt bad, it's still giving me large patterns on paper, they group about 2 inches or so at 20 yards. Open sights, I took the scope off until I get enough shots in it to tame it down some. 10.34 grains are still going SS with a loud crack too.
What type of oil are you guys using for the piston? After 250 rounds it says to lubricate the piston but doesnt say if regular gun oil will work or not. I think these piston seals are synthetic material so oil type may not be as important as it is with leather seals.
I kinda thought 10 grain pellets would still go crack. These guns are powerhouses. Only springer I know of that might compete with them in power is the Gamo Socom and hunter extremes.
I already want one in .177 and .25 too.
-
When I got my new 135 I put a few pellets through it that I had on hand, and I was getting the loud supersonic crack from it, much like the .22 rimfire rifle I have. The pellets were 7 grain and they were breaking the sound barrier.
Nick,
Nick,
What does your Hatsan 135 weigh, without the scope attached ?
Thanks !
Dave
-
When I got my new 135 I put a few pellets through it that I had on hand, and I was getting the loud supersonic crack from it, much like the .22 rimfire rifle I have. The pellets were 7 grain and they were breaking the sound barrier.
Nick,
Nick,
Can you help me out with a few measurements ?
1 - Outside diameter of Piston Tube.
2 - Length of Piston Tube ( just the cylinder )
3 - Weight of action, by itself, when removed from stock ( no scope attached ).
4 - Type of stock & weight ( Conventional, Thumbhole, or Wood )
5 - Large, clear pics, if possible.
Thanks, in advance, for your help !
Dave
-
I got 1376 fps out of my RWS48 with the .177 SSP's.
When the Diana 52 first came out I bought one, and at the time Diana claimed they were the first spring airgun manufactutrer to put out a rifle that could break the sound barrier in the "out of the box" form. I don't know if it was fully true (maybe there were others companies that did also),, but mine sure hit above the sound barrier, with lighter pellets anyway... I only fired them a couple of times because I knew it might not be the wisest thing to do, but it was surely impressive. Nowadays, it's not uncommon to buy such rifles, from so called quality manufacturers, and also from manufacturers of more average quality. I have a couple of them but I use much heavier pellets to try to prevent this occurance...
-
I agree with you Al, using a pellet thats to light isn't a good idea in these magnum springers. I am using 10.34 grain pellets now and I really doubt that I can do any damage to the gun at the weight. I would think a 5 or 6 grain might be hard on the piston but not a 10 . What puzzles me is Hatsan knows the power and force these magnums produce and you think they would include a " Warning" label on the rifle, not to use anything under say a 8 grain pellet or you might damage the gun.
Just my thoughts, because this 135 is so loud I'm constantly looking over my shoulder when I'm out in my yard hoping the neighbors dont call the law because it's exactly like a .22 rimfire sound. I doubt that the law would do anything because it is a pellet gun however looking at it you could mistake it for a 30-06 easily. It also shoots through 2 x 4's with ease.