GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: gene_sc on March 24, 2012, 07:09:10 PM
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I had two full 88 CF 3000 psi tanks full from my last fill. Started working on a couple pcp projects and had run both tanks down below 2700 psi.
I fired up my Shoe Box compressor for the first time this year to top off tanks. Well unfortunately it would shut off after about 3 minutes. I then logged into the Shoe Box Compressor Forums for some help. It turns out that Tom the owner posted right back to my plea for help... :) After a couple emails and a phone call from Tom got me up and running again.
I have to say that Tom definitely supports what he sells and is ready at a drop of the hat to help out.
Just a thanks to both Tom and Carol for there great product.
Gene
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I've had the same experience with Tom and his compressors. When help is needed Tom's customer service is second to none. Great products with first class service.
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yep. I saw your post over there Gene...and saw how Tom resonded quickly. Customer Service is awesome.
I have a 4500 Shoebox too, and have posted a few times over there too.
My very first post IIRC was when I used the shoebox for the first time and couldn't get any pressure to fill with.
Come to find out, I had both the bleeder valves open, on the fill tank and the shoebox. :-[
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Tom & Carol are awesome! I have had Tom's help a couple of times on a couple of issues and one was a major one. Seems like the O Ring on the bottom of the Air Block began to leak and I sent Tom an E Mail. He got back to me and said do not touch anything till I call. Within a 1/2 hour the phone rang and it was Tom and he walked me through the procedure to replace the O Ring. I had to remove the air block but doing so can put things out of alignment and cause major damage. With Tom's help on the phone all went well. What more could one ask for customer service, a personal call within a half hour to help a customer with a problem! Great product FANTASTIC service.
For those of you who have not upgraded to the new belt drive you should look into it. My little 1st stage compressor is now louder than the Shoebox Compressor
Norm
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They had a sale in January only. $30 off plus free hardened piston upgrade.
I was waiting patiently for my tax refund to come in to get an MRod, tank & shoebox, and was not going to be able to order until February.
I emailed explaining my predicament asking if they planned to extend the sale or if they gave a Veteran's discount or anything like that?
I got a reply that they did not intend to extend the sale nor did they give any other discounts.
But, that for a small deposit they could hold the special price for me for 30 days. What more could I ask for. Excellent gesture that shows how great these folks really are.
I also got a good deal on a Guppy tank from Joe Brancato as he was having a sale too (another great guy BTW).
I have only filled the tank once so far, but will be using the shoebox again tomorrow to top it off.
I might even fill or partially fill my 80cf scuba for the Disco too.
It is a nice setup and works very well. It is a good feeling knowing that that you are self sufficient and can fill your tanks yourself whenever you like.
we are quite fortunate to have so many great people in this hobby to acquire gear from.
Oh, and Norm........ The belt upgrade is on my wish list.......soon I hope.
JT
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Tom & Carol showed up at the Extreme Benchrest match in AZ and I hadn't seen him since the early 90's. Carol and Tom met playing painball and they have been together joined at the hip ever since. They are about as nice a couple as you would ever want to meet. They raffled off one of the shoeboxes and sold everything else they brought to a very enthusiastic (and chilly) crowd. I'm waiting for supershoebox cause I have needs and air is something I could not get enuf of. My 2000 Cubic foot tank cascade cries for a high pressure high volume compressor so I can start filling peoples tanks.
Tom was the most innovative guy (spelled most copied)ever in painball and he is a super nice guy who did not deserve that kind of abuse. He learned by experience that niche markets are the key to success and the shoebox is a perfect product for the average airgunner.
Tom's never ending desire to make the best products possible means the shoebox will always get better even if a new platform is adopted.
Airgun Designs represented the best of the best in painball and his Shoebox effort will not be his last innovation. Tom is the kinda guy who obsesses over stuff like a few others I know well. I call it passion squared. Tom has a very fertile mind and always seems to accomplish what he sets out to do. He and I talked a lot in AZ about what we have both been up to since the painball days.
Tom's passion for development means we are in for a treat when he finally gets his arms wrapped around a meaningful Airgun project. I don't think anyone did Semi-Auto quite like Tom and we have a lot to look forward to when he finally decides to draw something up. Since it will be AMERICAN he will get all the help I can muster.
I have a lot of experience in airguns and I was one of the top guys in the development side of painball in the mid 80's. Tom blew by me and everyone else and would have been unstoppable if it hadn't been for the lawyers and ripoffs which became the industries downfall(the pain in painball).
Shoebox is just the beggining of a very good thing. Airgunners are really lucky to have Tom & Carol thinking about airguns. They are a class act.
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I'm trying to convince my father to get a shoebox compressor. Too bad he already has like 3 200 PSI compressors....
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You said a mouth full Tim. Although I have never met Tom, just dealing with him and talking to him a few times told me he was a straight up guy.
Thanks for guys like him who help develope our world of air gunning.
Gene
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I'm trying to convince my father to get a shoebox compressor. Too bad he already has like 3 200 PSI compressors....
Shoeboxes are 2 stage high output compressors as Tom has said it is much cheaper to go 100+ psi inlet and just make the high pressure stages. You will need shop air dedicated to the showebox while it is running so it can boost that pressure up to the output pressure.
At AZ Extreme Tom had one of those round tank Harbor Freight Shop air compresors supplying the Inlet air for the Shoebox. At the insignificant production numbers TK is running there is no way in tarnation he can make a competitively priced 3 stage unit if he has to incorporate the high volume low pressure function.
He did the most pragmatic thing and eliminated that from the build.
So you will need one of those shop air compressors turned down a bit and you want to make sure you have a really good water trap downstream of the low pressure system to take as much of the water out of the first stage as possible.
In your copper tubing system from the shop air to the Shoebox it is a really good idea to take your air from the system as far away from the source as possible so the supply line acts as a condenser for the moisture being ironed out of the atmosphere in the first stage. If your copper runs uphill the moisture will condense and run down to the lowest spot.
By having a storage tank at the high spot and the ability for all the moisture to gravity feed back to a low spot you can get rid of a great deal of the atmospheric moisture in a way that it will never get anywhere near the second and third stage. My Plumber put a gate valve at the lowest point so I could disconnect via Quick Connect my compresor from the piping and take it outside to drain the tank. You can open the gate valve and drain the shop piping anytime without unhooking the compressor.
Cold air holds less moisture so if youy build the system in a way that takes advantage of the condensing charachteristic of hot air and the thermal charachteristics of Copper pipe it will serve you better, last longer and be easier to service.
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I'm trying to convince my father to get a shoebox compressor. Too bad he already has like 3 200 PSI compressors....
Shoeboxes are 2 stage high output compressors as Tom has said it is much cheaper to go 100+ psi inlet and just make the high pressure stages. You will need shop air dedicated to the showebox while it is running so it can boost that pressure up to the output pressure.
At AZ Extreme Tom had one of those round tank Harbor Freight Shop air compresors supplying the Inlet air for the Shoebox. At the insignificant production numbers TK is running there is no way in tarnation he can make a competitively priced 3 stage unit if he has to incorporate the high volume low pressure function.
He did the most pragmatic thing and eliminated that from the build.
So you will need one of those shop air compressors turned down a bit and you want to make sure you have a really good water trap downstream of the low pressure system to take as much of the water out of the first stage as possible.
In your copper tubing system from the shop air to the Shoebox it is a really good idea to take your air from the system as far away from the source as possible so the supply line acts as a condenser for the moisture being ironed out of the atmosphere in the first stage. If your copper runs uphill the moisture will condense and run down to the lowest spot.
By having a storage tank at the high spot and the ability for all the moisture to gravity feed back to a low spot you can get rid of a great deal of the atmospheric moisture in a way that it will never get anywhere near the second and third stage. My Plumber put a gate valve at the lowest point so I could disconnect via Quick Connect my compresor from the piping and take it outside to drain the tank. You can open the gate valve and drain the shop piping anytime without unhooking the compressor.
Cold air holds less moisture so if youy build the system in a way that takes advantage of the condensing charachteristic of hot air and the thermal charachteristics of Copper pipe it will serve you better, last longer and be easier to service.
Yes, Gene already let me know that "shoebox compressors" are only good for PCP airguns and nothing else. So really my dad would have no use for it.
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Once I get my Regged tank for my LD this week it is time to save for a Shoe Box
I have access to a paintball shop 10 mins away with a 5000 PSI compressor and a 3 tank Cascade system they fill me up at 1 dollar per 1000 PSI regardless of tank size!
but I would like to fully independant on my air supply for the disco and LD
I need a Shoe box and a new Bow lol
I basically hunt with air guns my bow and sometimes my pistols but mostly airgun and bows!
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I haven't received my Ninja order yet so it will be at least another week before you can get weened off the 12 grams.
I talked to Ninja when they got back from the show they were at and Ray said they got buried with orders from painballers for the new style regs.
The new reg has three set screws that allow you to index the position of the tank gauge/inlets so they don't interfere with the shooter/barrel/gear. Not so important on the LD but more on the US FT & Hunters we do could benefit from that new feature. What they don't have is the higher pressures in the new reg so we are staying with the old style till they get the higher pressure thing worked out. They make shims to be able to index the current style and you can always machine the bonnet to get it to stop where you want.
LD's normally run on 800 PSI. I'm testing 1200 on my own gun and the jury is still out till I have a few more matches under my belt. IT doesn't seem to make any difference on the POI as I think I'm on the high pressure side of the bellcurve and at the same velocity as 800. Any higher pressure and the valve will slow down the pellet due to approaching lock-up.
It is important to make sure you do not try to screw the tank in to the adapter under pressure. I put the MT tank on the adapter off the gun and then screw both into the gun till I get to the point where they are bottoming in the threaded nut. Then I back the tank out of the adapter (1/16th of a turn) so it isn't bottomed in that thread and back the adapter out of the gun a fraction of a thread so the assembly can free float and center up upon initial charging.
Open the bolt, cock the gun to low power and then charge the tank at the fill nipple. The reason I open the bolt is assuming the worst case scenario of loaded gun and failed valve. Open bolts are the sensible approach to all bolt actions I know.
LD's have MORE hammer spring preload than they have valve return spring tension(Read; the valve is held open by the hammer when the gun is uncocked). If the gun is not cocked prior to charging a rush of air or CO2 flowing thru the valve can blow a hole in the microscreen that protects the valve from contamination from chunks in the inlet air/CO2. Once you blow that screen the valve will not last very long and it can last for decades if you are careful.
ALWAYS cock the gun prior to chargingto make sure you don't compromise the integfrity of your valves protection.
Further to that warning it is really important to NOT fire the LD absent of Pressure. Any debris in the barrel and breech area can fall into the valve from the outlet side when the hammer/valve is cycled with no pressure in the system. It is reality that more than 50% of the valve jobs I do for free are contaminated with a perfectly intact microscreen. Most of the blown Microscreens are on systems using HPA regulated air. I believe it is due to guys trying to charging the gun by screwing the tank in quickly under charge with the gun uncocked. If you do it that way your gun will have problems.
LD's should always be stored uncocked, charged with bolt lug disengaged from cam face. CO2 or Air doesn't matter the gun wants to be always charged and always cocked when charging.
It doesn't hurt them or most CO2/PCP's to be fired with no pellet but it really taxes your luck when you overtravel the valve group and pound the hammer against the front of the valve body.
Enjoy!
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i love my shoe box. innovation at its best for the cost
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You should have seen the look on my wife's face when I said "Some guy in Arizona makes these in his garage." :o
Then I told her the truth. "Well I think he has a real workshop now." ;D
I love mine too. Last night I filled my Joe Brancato Guppy tank with the shoebox for the second time.
It only took 1hr & 18mins to go from 2900psi to 4500psi.
The motor gets a little hot and smells a little hot.
I asked on the Shoebox forum and Tom and the Tech and a customer or 2 all said that it is normal during break in period.
It is really nice to be filling my own tanks and guns with this piece of gear.
JT
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JT, I use two small desk fan pointed directly on mine with the cover off. It stays warm to touch. Should prolong the life of the compressor.
Gene
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JT, I use two small desk fan pointed directly on mine with the cover off. It stays warm to touch. Should prolong the life of the compressor.
Gene
I drilled a hole and mounted a small electronics fan on the back of the Shoebox.
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Rico I did pretty much the same as you except I used some aluminum tape and covered the holes on the left side of the cover and drilled new holes on the right side. This gives better air flow all across the cylinders and through the motor.
Norm
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I had seen the fan mods on here before buying the Shoebox so from day one I have used a 12v computer fan.
Rico, Your install is nice and clean.
I have not talked myself into drilling a hole in the Shoebox yet though, so I bolted mine on the outside of the cover through the existing holes on the left side.
It blows in through the intended holes, over/around the cylinders and out through the motor.
A Friend at work brought me in 2 smaller fans that are about 2" in diameter. For being as small as they are the seem to move a lot of air.
My thoughts are that these 2 fans might be small enough to fit over the factory cover holes on the inside of the cover for a cleaner install.
JT
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Tom is working on a new case for the Shoebox compressor that will have a fan built in. He is always working on ways to make the little compressor better. Things like the belt drive that make the Shoebox compressor quieter than my small pancake 1st stage compressor, new cylinders that have fins for helping to cool them down and now the built in fan. Just keeps getting better and better.
Norm
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That is cool to hear Norm.
I wonder if it will be avail as an upgrade?
Such as the belt upgrade.
JT