GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Benjamin Airguns => Topic started by: Remo on January 28, 2012, 09:18:38 AM
-
I couldn't resist its plastic good looks and rifled barrel, and I picked up an M4-177 from PA. The rifle shot great with open sights, but I couldn't get a scope or red dot on target without running out of adjustment. Since I'm not going to buy adjustable rings for an $80 rifle, I decided to try another so I did an exchange at PA for another M4-177. The new rifle arrived and I am pleased with it's accuracy using the open sights or a red dot. Only thing ruining my mood is that the rifle chronys at about 530 fps using 8 grain H&N sport wad-cutters. That's after lubing the pump head with pellgunoil. Before the lube it shot about 500 fps.
Should I go through the exchange cycle at PA again, or is my rifle shooting at real world velocities?
Eric
-
Thats about the right FPS with that pellet. I will test mine later and get back to you. If your not happy with it just send it back to PA.
Mike
-
Mike,
I know that PA will do another exchange for me. I'm just cranky at the thought of going through the whole exchange cycle twice (packing up the rifle, driving it to the FedEx dropoff site and then waiting for the return to arrive, get processed by PA and then wait again for the replacement to arrive while arranging for a signature upon delivery). But, if 530 fps is truly on the low side of reality, I'll undertake the exchange effort a second time.
Eric
-
Mike,
I know that PA will do another exchange for me. I'm just cranky at the thought of going through the whole exchange cycle twice (packing up the rifle, driving it to the FedEx dropoff site and then waiting for the return to arrive, get processed by PA and then wait again for the replacement to arrive while arranging for a signature upon delivery). But, if 530 fps is truly on the low side of reality, I'll undertake the exchange effort a second time.
Eric
FedEx will pick it up just let PA no you want a pick up.
Mike
-
Not for nothing dude, but instead of going through all that trouble and time and energy waste, if your looking to generate more powere, (or the same power with less pumping) you could go flat-top valve and piston in that baby. That should give you about 625fps or more on 10 pumps and should still get you into the 500's with 6 or 7 pumps. I did that flat top mod to my 1377 pistols and its gotta be the best mod you can do to these things! Just a thought, and if your handy with a dremel, you can machine your valve by hand and just buy a piston for cheap. Good luck dude.
-
Handy with a dremel? Wish it were so. My Wife says I can't pound sand with a shovel...and she's right.
-
Dude stop trippin...You are shooting an 8 Grain pellet, the advertised fps for that gun is 600fps with pellets. With bb's it is rated @ 625fps. Soooooooo Try a lighter pellet if you care about fps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDAiwZ_oubI&feature=channel_video_title#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDAiwZ_oubI&feature=channel_video_title#ws)
-
Crosman specs the rifle at 600 fps with a 7.9 g pellet. That's the reason that a 500 to 530 fps figure bothers me. Achieving higher velocity with a lighter pellet is not the issue.
-
Almost all Crosman ag's are over rated in the fps when they advertise.530 fps for a factory ag that shoots pellets and b.b.s isn't ungodly bad .I really Dought you got a bad one .if it will shoot dime size groups at 10 meters its a keeper .my m417 will and its a blast to play around with .
-
Check out my video of theM417
Mike
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7r2PilcBRKY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
-
Nice video mike these m4 are a joy to play with and can shoot straight for what they are .its not like a power house springer or top notch pcp .
-
Nice video mike these m4 are a joy to play with and can shoot straight for what they are .its not like a power house springer or top notch pcp .
Yes Sir they are a fun shooting gun and as you can see will shoot just about any pellet straight.
Mike
-
mine shot 575 fps with 7 gr match wad cutters at 10 pumps. and about 640 fps at 20 pumps with same pellet. ;D
-
Are you supposed to pump these 20 times ? I thought that only after mod's you can pump over 10 times without hurting something. Brewerja, can you post the parts numbers and maybe a desciption of how to modify these to get that additional fps.
brent
-
Are you supposed to pump these 20 times ? I thought that only after mod's you can pump over 10 times without hurting something. Brewerja, can you post the parts numbers and maybe a desciption of how to modify these to get that additional fps.
brent
I think they say that because pumping over ten times can leave air in the valve after you shoot it, and you no what that means "not safe". But he could have a FT setup.
Mike
-
mine dumps all the air even at 20 pumps. no residual at all. ;D there was another debate previously and most of the more knowledgeable members/gurus said it didn't hurt.
-
http://www.airgunsmith.com/cros1377/pistdrw.jpg (http://www.airgunsmith.com/cros1377/pistdrw.jpg)
This is where it shows how to make your own flat-top valve. The piston is slightly more difficlut to manufacture, but charlie melon has the entire setup with the valve already ported if you dont want to mod it yourself. http://mellonair.com/ (http://mellonair.com/) for power mods. I think the m417 is a great rifle platform to start out on, a great pumper, it would be cool of they made it in .22 but then you would lose function if the bb repeater. Oh well, i hope that clears up some of your questions. Check out http://www.airgunsmith.com/1/gallery1/valve.jpg (http://www.airgunsmith.com/1/gallery1/valve.jpg) if you want to go psycho on valve mods. Good luck fellas!
-
Since so few GTA members have chimed in to give their real world M4 velocity figures I gave PA a call and asked about the apparently low muzzle velocity for my M4-177. PA responded that in their 10 for $10 test, it was common for the M4-177 to shoot in the low 500s fps range. While this was comforting, it still troubled me that Crosman rated the rifle at 625 fps with a specified pellet weight (7.9g). Perhaps something was wrong with my rifle's internals? Just for curiosity, I fired a string over the chrony using 7.0g pellets and the M4 produced about 550 fps at the muzzle.
I gave Crosman a call and asked the same question of them. They advised that their QC passes all M4s that shoot over 500 fps and confirmed PA's observation that the performance of my rifle is within the expected range.
Hope others find this info useful.
Eric
-
Eric i really don't no of many if any manufactures that clam a higher velocity then it will shoot in hand. Some rumors will say they use a very light pellet/BB when testing. This is just something we as air gunners just have to except.Yeah it not worthy but that's the way it go's. I've been using RWS hobby 7.0 in my M417 and she shoots fine and can take a squirrel with one shot to the head at 15 yards.If your looking to bump your power up go for the FT piston and valve http://www.mellonair.com/. (http://www.mellonair.com/.) I picked up 100 fps after installing Charlies FT set in one of my 1377s. If the gun was inaccurate i would be more concerned but it seems like you have a good shooter as is.
Mike
-
IMO Crosman and many other manufacturers claimed fps is high on purpose. It's due to marketing. Their target audience is kids or unknowledgeable buyers in walmart for example. just the other day I heard two people that were looking at pistols and all the asked about was fps. they put really no more thought into it than looks and fps. So what do companies that sell these guns do? claim high fps and make them look all tactical. Why? Because it sells guns. I could tell you about the same thing with pixel density in cameras but won't waste your time here.
How many people in the intended audience would ever shoot over a chrony or even know what a chrony is? Almost none. I'm not trying to bash crosman in this thread (did that in another thread) for this but just saying that it is a reality. We have to use our knowledge and thankfully there are places like GTA where we can weed out the BS from fact. And this thread is helping with that.
I have two issues with crosman, deceptive marketing practices and poor quality control (not saying it was always that way with Crosman). I absolutely love some of their designs and am a sucker for any pistol that looks like a luger because I love the design. Others have commented how great their customer service is, and that's fine but I could care less about that, I want a gun that works as advertised out of the box. I don't want them to trade me a new poor quality contol gun for my old poor quality control gun.
I had one usable gun out of the last 5 crosman purchases. But that one that works well, a crosman 2240, I love it. And that prompted me to order another one from the custom shop. I cringe at their quality control (and HATE their marketing) but if you want a particular design it is an unfortunate fact. Wish I had more to offer but all manufacturing seems to be going toward the walmart ethic. Cheap stuff with hit and miss quality control and if it doesn't work trade it in for another. mnufacturers know that a very, very low percentage of people will ever return anything. People like us will but how many of the target audience will? If the bb actually comes out of the barrel, it makes a noise, and once in a while a can falls over, they are happy. That is the target audience and many of the the guns are made down to that IMO. I am sure you could probably say the same thiing about Gamo. I don't know much about them but the one pistol I bought had ridiculous, joke-like accuracy and had depp milling marks in the barrel going almost perpendicular to the rifling lands. The pellets were hitting at a 45 degree angle at 10 yards. I'm sure lots of kids bought that same gun and are happy with it's 5 inch groups at 10 yards.
-
Bobster,
I've had the exact opposite experience with Crosman. Good quality, excellent customer service to remedy glitches. Now, back on topic.
Like most of us, I discount velocity claims made by manufacturers since many such figures are based upon shooting an extremely light, non-lead pellet. What caught my attention about the M4 maximum velocity claim by Crosman was that they specified the pellet weight. It was this specification that created a performance expectation. After all, how much slower would my gun shoot a substantially similar pellet (7.9g vs 8.0g ) ? While not expecting "maximum" velocity of 625 fps, I did expect to see real world performance more than 100 fps less than "maximum".
More importantly, it is accurate and I enjoy shooting it so it is a keeper anyway!!
Eric