GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: tkerrigan on January 15, 2012, 01:56:50 PM
-
I bought a 1400 about a month ago, I read in the Blue book that these are desirable to those that want a hard shooting pumper that can't experience valve lock. I also read that if it is pumped more that 8 times, you risk extruding the exhaust valve. Could somebody explain what the real situation is on this? Bye the way, it shoots very well, 14.66 pellets at 590 fps. Regards, Tom
-
"I bought a 1400 about a month ago, I read in the Blue book that these are desirable to those that want a hard shooting pumper that can't experience valve lock. I also read that if it is pumped more that 8 times, you risk extruding the exhaust valve. Could somebody explain what the real situation is on this?"
The reason that the valve won't lock up on the 140/1400 series and others that use that valve is that it doesn't HAVE an exhaust valve in the traditional sense. It has a 'pop-off' cap that is retained by the sear. When the trigger releases the cap ALL of the air is dumped instantly, unlike the traditional exhaust valve which can retain air---and does if over-pumped, gummed up by old oil or the use of WD-40 or the hammer spring simply gets tired. Because of the way that the sear blocks the pop-off on the 140/1400 valves the trigger pull becomes increasingly harder with each pump because it is holding back ALL of the accumulated high pressure charge. They can be extremely crisp if well polished and adjusted however and I have found them entirely satisfactory in the field if a PIA at the bench.
The valving system was originally designed to eliminate Crosman's most common service problem----valve lock-up caused by over pumping the 100 series guns. Customers simply pumped them up so much that the hammer weight and spring were unable to knock the exhaust valve off of the seat. So they were sent to Crosman with a complaint even though it was entirely the fault of the customer for ignoring the instruction manual recommendations. No more lock-up! Returns plunged!
As for over-pumping it there should be no problems. Throughout the course of the production life of the 140/1400 series the valve and charging system changed little if at all. But Crosman recommended a maximum number of pumps ranging from 6 to 10 in various years with 8 being the most common. For that reason I have used 10---for hunting only---for at least 30 years with no mechanical issues. But I DO maintain my hunters in a high state of repair!
<Bye the way, it shoots very well, 14.66 pellets at 590 fps.>
A good 1400 that isn't simply worn out should creep into the lower 700s with Premiers after a fresh rebuild and careful blueprinting to eliminate losses between pump cup and pellet. They easily equal the energy output of the average RWS/ Diana M-34 which is one of the universal standards of what a quality mid-power springer should do.
The 140/1400 and Sheridan along with the little known or recognized S&W M-77A pumper are 15 fpe rifles when in good repair. The Benjamin 312/342 comes in just a wee bit lower---@ 14 fpe on a good one. They are ALL excellent woods cruising hunters that are easy to carry, shooter friendly, accurate---and pure poison on small game. All of them will leave you wondering why we ever bought the springer 'snake oil' spiel from Robert Law and Robert Beeman. They both built businesses amounting to minor empires on the self-serving BS that our familiar domestic multi-pumpers were a POS. Nothing could have been further from the truth! It wasn't until the advent of the R-1 that the imports could challenge the domestic product in raw power---at the expense of pellet pickiness and hold sensitivity that many could never master---at 3-4 times the cost.
HTH, Tom
-
Thanks for the very informative post Tom, The 590 fps was at 8 pumps. I've been hesitant to pump more, the gun looks practically brand new, still has two stickers on it, and the box and pamphlets.
Regards, The other Tom
-
I don't want to hijack your thread but I have one of these guns I'm working on know. I have replaced 90% of the internals. The pump is pumping air but you can hear it coming out the barrell as soon as its pumped. Any ideas on what could be going on here? Thanks.
-
My guess is that the gun is not cocking properly, or the quad seal is leaking.... In the 140/1400 there is a cup containing a quad seal that slides on the outlet spigot of the valve.... It rests against a steel sleeve that is held forward by the trigger sear.... hence why the trigger pull gets harder as the pressure increases....
When the gun is fired, the cup and the sleeve slide back, the quad seal uncovers the end of the spigot and releases the air.... A spring behind the steel sleeve then recocks the gun so that it can be pumped again.... If air is leaking out as you try and pump it, either the quad seal is leaking (usually a slow leak).... or the cup and sleeve are not staying forward (big, whoosing leak).... It may be something as simple as the trigger sticking in the groove in the stock.... or the steel sleeve hanging up in the tube and not being pushed forward by the spring after firing....
Bob
-
It is a (big, whooshing leak). I've got it tore back down and I'm going to go back together with it one more time and make sure that I didn't put something back together wrong....
-
Pretty sure the sear is not catching the sleeve.... ie the gun is not cocking....
Bob
-
." All of them will leave you wondering why we ever bought the springer 'snake oil' spiel from Robert Law and Robert Beeman. They both built businesses amounting to minor empires on the self-serving BS that our familiar domestic multi-pumpers were a POS. Nothing could have been further from the truth! It wasn't until the advent of the R-1 that the imports could challenge the domestic product in raw power---at the expense of pellet pickiness and hold sensitivity that many could never master---at 3-4 times the cost. "
Can I give you a high-five, or some props, or a fist-bump (whatever is cooler) on that statement.....
-I own a Crosman 101.....brass tube and barrel.....little bit larger groups than I like....but decent power, lightweight, 2x older than me, looks 10 times cooler than anything else I own.
-A 392 Steroid that will knock the bottom out of anything, and hold inch groups at 50.
-A Daisy 880 that was my first airgun ever....great gun.
I wouldn't trade any one of these guns for any springer I have ever owned.
Well spoken, sir.
God bless,
Farmer
-
Thanks Farmer!
That paragraph was recycled from a post to an e-mail group of airgunning geezers like myself. I've been getting a lot of mileage out of it---perhaps even in other posts on the GTA.
Doing some testing recently I found it beyond interesting that my 2 keeper 1400s, 3 rocker safety Sheridans and an S&W M-77A all deliver virtually the same energy as my 2008 RWS/Diana M-34 in .22. And are FAR easier to shoot accurately! Nor does the 'new' Benji 312 in my arsenal lag far behind. When---or if---I ever complete the rehab on my original M-101 I fully expect it to be in the same ballpark since it's put a LOT of game on the table in the last 60+ years.
Some things "just work" and it's foolish to pass them by and forget them for the new, but not necessarily better. Tom
-
Pretty sure the sear is not catching the sleeve.... ie the gun is not cocking....
Bob
Bob, off-topic but, glad to see you back on here, hope you are feeling MUCH better!?
-
A-OK, thanks!
Bob