GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Hunting Gate => Topic started by: Mebits on September 08, 2010, 09:58:06 AM
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I couldn't bring myself to take another nasty pic, but I had to comment...
I hit a non-native weaver finch (hosp) dead center in the head from the front with a Crow Mag in just .177.
There was nothing but two bits of skin left on either side.
Those pellets do the trick, if you catch a bit of bone.
I'm buying the H&N's 500 at a time from Pyramyd Air, and I'm pretty happy with them at up to 25 yds, despite an occasional keyholer.
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Yup, those crow mags do work well on birds.
Jeff
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That's just a lot of damage for such a small pellet.
I did have one similar shot that I'll try to put up. This one (if it shows) is of a sparrow that was hit and yet was still active and able to move around. I had to take a pic before I went to ease his passage.
Had I hit him a bit lower, I suspect that he would have looked like the one I terminated today.
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That big, hollow cup in the front of the pellet really does a number on those tiny birds. I've used them to shoot English Sparrows at the duck farm and when hit the birds just explode into a puff of feathers. It's really quite awesome.
Jeff
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Yep, the Crow Mag is just downright mean ;)
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The CM's are awesome at "close distance" inside 30yds on squirrels too! They are absolutely devastating on birds. I have taken 3 maybe 4 squirrels using the 350 .22 and the 18.2gr CM's and they expired almost instantly. They were mostly chest/vitals body shots and they bled out every time very quickly besides taking out half their chest in the process with a big exit hole (or no exit hole once or twice on the 30yd shots) sometimes. They flatten out like a pancake if shot from a Magnum gun and transfer most of the energy to the critter. They do not penetrate very well though, because they flatten quickly, unless they are carrying a lot of FPE (>20), so I would not use them at long distance. And I do not recommend them for medium sized critters like G-hog, raccoon and possum, unless they are pretty close or you have minimum a 25-30fpe gun.
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Hey, Harry. My BC is probably throwing those .177 pellets out with 15 fpe. I get some pretty good flattening, but penetration is NOT a problem on Birds. Over-penetration is (sub 90').
This is probably due to the small diameter.
I'd feel very comfortable taking out a ground hog at 22yds with a head shot with these pellets and this gun. Nothing any bigger, though and not much further out, either.
On the other hand, I wish I had LESS power on starlings. I was hitting them at 27 yds with these same pellets, passing through their bodies, and burying the pellet flush in the p/t fence panel behind.
One day, I'm going to take a pic of my fence panel behind the feeder with all those pass-through pellets. :)
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How do crow mags perform on groundhog sized game???? i have some in .22 caliber.. and despite there fantastic performance on feathers and small fur... i dont' know if i'd use one on larger prey... i'd take penetration over expansion... make sure i hit the vitals on those critters. my aim could be right on, but if the pellet doesn't penetrate deep enough... not my cup of tea.
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BBC,
I'd never use these pellets with anything but a head shot on anything bigger than a rat. And then, nothing bigger than a ground hog or rabbit, unless it was point blank (<10yd).
I'd hate to have a shot off 2" and a critter with a .177 pellet in his body to suffer with. I'd also hate to bounce a pellet off a critter's head.
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i did not intend that as a, uh... attack or insult. i am purely curious at how they do. crow mags do expand big and fast... more curiosity than anything. if something comes my way, in the shape of a bandit, groundhog, or country rat, it will eat a pred to the dome... and nothing more... however with that said... minus the red polymer tip.... which pulls out quite easily... a crow mag, and a polymag, look nearly identicle....
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I took no offense, and knew none was intended, but I figured some noob might be reading and I wanted to be clear. I didn't want anyone thinking that I'd be shooting GH's at range, center mass.
That's all! :D
And after all of that, I am also curious as to how they do and what their real limits are beyond starlings.
I'm still waiting to shoot my first pigeon with them. I was shooting silver bears at them before.
M
i did not intend that as a, uh... attack or insult. i am purely curious at how they do. crow mags do expand big and fast... more curiosity than anything. if something comes my way, in the shape of a bandit, groundhog, or country rat, it will eat a pred to the dome... and nothing more... however with that said... minus the red polymer tip.... which pulls out quite easily... a crow mag, and a polymag, look nearly identical....
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Ed, not sure if you saw my post above from earlier. I wrote that I do not recommend them for medium-sized game like Groundhog, bandit and country rat, unless you are close, confident of your shooting, and go for a head shot. Having said that, they work great on Squirrel (and rabbit) and birds, even crows up to 30yds. The penetration is not there since it's a "full" hollow point, unless you are shooting the .22cal CM's out of at least a Magnum Springer. I have conducted many of my own penetration tests, and the CM's had just 1/2 the penetration of most of the domed pellets I tested. They offer awesome expansion, but at the expense of penetration. Still at 25+yds it went through squirrels I have shot with vitals placement, and it put them down fast and hard with big exit holes.. but this was with a 350 .22 shooting them at almost 23fpe. At 30yds, I did not get penetration on the squirrels. Any other domed pellet, and it would have gone through 2 squirrels at 30yds, shot from a 350. So you see why I don't recommend them for medium-sized night critters and G-hogs. I think Jeff also tried them on G-hogs and he didn't have much luck. The key with the CM's is distance if you don't have the "horsepower". If you have a 30+fpe PCP, I don't see an issue taking out a medium-sized critter at 25-30yds with a CM. I took a Groundhog with a CM at 25yds with the 350 .22 but hit him in the spine in the neck, and cut a major artery as well which put him down and he bled to death. I couldn't find an exit hole and he took a little longer than usual to die, rolling around a few times, so that's when I performed my own penetration tests and decided to use them only on squirrels and feather. I would not hesitate using them in my Condor .22 at 30-35yds however. CM's need decent power to penetrate. There was a lengthy post on the Yellow 2.5-3yrs ago by an engineer who performed some pretty good tests with the CM's vs. other domed pellets. It was actually very scientific-like and detailed. He concluded that the CM needs to be shot at 26fpe out of the muzzle, to match the penetration of a 14.x domed pellet shooting out of his test gun (a Webley Exocet I think or some other Webley) at 16-17fpe. I ran into pretty much the same conclusion with my own testing before I saw that post. I litterally had the CP's, CPHP's and the JSB Express 14.3 penetrating almost twice as much as the CM's. It just needs mucho FPE to penetrate well which to me is very important when it comes to medium-sized critters.
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*cough* PREDS *cough*
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Preds, preds, preds, that's all I hear. It's not the only pellet in the world. What would we do without Preds? How are we going to take game when Preds are back-ordered and we run out? Oh the humanity..! hehehe :) They 've only existed for about 4yrs.. How in the world did they kill small-game with airguns for 100yrs before Preds were invented? Beats me! :D
Could it be we placed those other disguisting worthless pellets in the "fuse box"? or did they bounce off? hehehe ;D
Just venting a little.. I 'm on my 5th cup of coffee and still working!! :o :(
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oh trust me... i use enough cphp's and other's... i was a huge fan of pointed pellets for the longest...
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Cool.. :) Hey check out my new personal message (under the avatar).. ;D
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You guys should really try the Skenco "Ultra Shock" fantastic in my gamo .177, devastating in .22 they don't open up like a Crow Magnum but tranfer the energy real, real well, and fly much better
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i found this article interesting
http://www.velocitypress.com/predatorpellets.shtml (http://www.velocitypress.com/predatorpellets.shtml)