GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: microsalmo on December 11, 2011, 04:26:48 PM

Title: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 11, 2011, 04:26:48 PM
So I took my 90 day old Walmart Ruger Air Hawk apart today.  It sprayed every pellet other than the Polymags.  No surprise - there are two huge chunks missing out of the seal... actually, they are both sitting in the compression tube up against the stop.  I don't expect anything special form this gun and don't want to get crazy upgrading it, but where is the best place to get a new seal?  Would I have any luck calling Umarex and asking for a free replacement?  Or would I be better off ordering one aftermarket?

Thanks guys - Steve

(http://i42.tinypic.com/1z35bhi.jpg)

(http://i43.tinypic.com/2l8jafq.jpg)

(http://i40.tinypic.com/9qboup.jpg)



Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: Mpac on December 11, 2011, 05:11:54 PM
Probably will void warranty if you ask umarex just order order one from vortek the rws seal and debur the rough edges before installing new seal.Usually umarex will want you to send the gun in. http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Seals-Tuning-Parts/ProSEAL28 (http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Seals-Tuning-Parts/ProSEAL28) heres the link.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: TOM aka critter99 on December 11, 2011, 05:59:33 PM
Standard UMAREX tactic to get out of honoring any warranty....

They are all about max profit when the brand demand goes under they just move on to another product to import and pump for profit

Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: mikeiniowa on December 11, 2011, 07:16:21 PM
call flying dragon, have everything and more that you need
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: porkfrog on December 11, 2011, 11:50:51 PM
I used a Tesla seal in mine ( i didnt wait 90 days!) minimal sizing with some 300 grit sandpaper and its awesome now. It needed ALOT of deburring...

Good luck!

Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 12, 2011, 12:05:49 AM
Thanks guys.

I couldn't stand it.  The inside was a mess.  I polished everything up tonight... edges, tube, piston, chamber hone, spring, lever, etc..  I'll get a seal coming tomorrow.  Are the trigger assemblies difficult to open up without everything flying apart on these guns?

  
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: porkfrog on December 12, 2011, 12:16:03 AM
That trigger is a Jack-In-the-Box. Took an extra half day to find all the parts scattered across the basememt.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 12, 2011, 12:36:51 AM
I just emailed Umarex.  I doubt they will bat a lash, but I felt they needed to know what the perception is.  Here it is:

Umarex, Quality control is disappointing in a recent purchase I had.  I picked up a new Air Hawk at Walmart and the velocities & groups were terrible... after break in and after pellet experimentation.  I disassembled the gun and found the piston seal to be missing two huge chunks of material.  This gun is 90 days old, and only has about 250 rounds through it.  Knowing you would not simply send me a new seal under warranty, I ordered a replacement on my own.  If you are interested, there are photographs on line in the GTA forums/Chinese Air Guns.  The thread is titled "Ruger Air Hawk Woes."  I feel you have a great product and deserve to know that assembly on this one was careless.  Feel free to call or email me if you want those photographs or have any questions.  P.S. I recently had a similar incident with Crosman and they had new seal in the mail to me the next day.  When I called your service center about the issue, they told me to send the gun in at my expense... The perception is that Crosman is spoling me, and that Umarex is making it's customers work to hard to get relief.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 12, 2011, 12:37:32 AM
That trigger is a Jack-In-the-Box. Took an extra half day to find all the parts scattered across the basememt.

Thanks for the heads up!
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: tpw on December 12, 2011, 04:50:01 AM
thats what you get with them rifles. hit and miss cause they dont care how they put them together. and im speaking from experience. its better to save a few bucks and get something made here. IMOP. go pcp. take it back to walley and wait a tad to get a 34. dont mess with the clones cause they are junk
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: Rocker1 on December 12, 2011, 07:25:01 AM
thats what you get with them rifles. hit and miss cause they dont care how they put them together. and im speaking from experience. its better to save a few bucks and get something made here. IMOP. go pcp. take it back to walley and wait a tad to get a 34. dont mess with the clones cause they are junk
     Not always junk Tom  people shoot what they can afford please no air gun bashing on what people shoot.  David
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: pappa on December 12, 2011, 08:16:09 AM
that's what you get with them rifles. hit and miss cause they dont care how they put them together. and im speaking from experience. its better to save a few bucks and get something made here. IMOP. go pcp. take it back to walley and wait a tad to get a 34. dont mess with the clones cause they are junk

I take exception to this idea. I have used a Ruger Blackhawk for years and it is one fine rifle; super dependable, super accurate and very powerful, also very trouble free. I now have 3 Rugers and they are the most dependable and useful rifles I own. I started with an RWS 34 years ago and it turned out to be a piece of junk too. You pays your money and you takes your chances!!!

By the way, if you are speaking of an RWS34 when you say 34, they are not made here.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: tpw on December 12, 2011, 11:56:51 AM
i wasnt bashing anything. just talking from personal experience and i know the 34 isnt made here. they are german guns and thats why i suggested taking the clone back and save for one. and i did say the china guns are hit and miss. i didnt put them all down so dont know why you said i was bashing anyone
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: porkfrog on December 12, 2011, 07:52:05 PM
Well i'm not about to start a debate, but while those 34's may be ASSEMBLED in Germany, I believe I have heard many to most of the parts are coming from China. I will even go out on a limb and say thier parts are coming from BAM who is making the Air Hawk.  A good example... I have a supplier in China that provides product for my company. When I was taking the tour, I was brought into a large manufacturing area that made a whole slew of various components for BMW!  The laws allow the "made in" statements to be made in the country where the major transformation takes place. So while something may say "made in XYZ" it may really not...
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: tpw on December 12, 2011, 08:00:25 PM
they stopped getting barrels from the Chinese because of quality issues. all german made now
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: porkfrog on December 12, 2011, 08:05:24 PM
OK. I have no information that could prove this otherwise.  200 bucks still seems very inexpensive for a german rifle
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: tpw on December 12, 2011, 09:37:43 PM
it is worth it
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: shadow on December 13, 2011, 03:10:01 AM
Sometimes you get what I call a bad day at the assembly shop airgun but it's basically still a solid shooter just need's some TLC. I have German shooters China shooters and the list go's on and in my book their all darn good shooters. All of them including the German made shooters have required some TLC to bring out the best in them. My Turbo Tuned B25 has no problem going head to head with my Turbo Tuned RWS34 Panther. You may have a good shooter there but will need to giver her some TLC to bring out the best in her. Ed
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: Brutuz on December 13, 2011, 06:38:03 AM
The trigger unit can be removed without parts parts scattered across the basememt, in fact I was pointed to the trick shown in the video here on the GTA from TJK.

The rifle shown in the vid isn't full power: allways use a spring compressor !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL2KLl6GNy4#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL2KLl6GNy4#ws)
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: mikeiniowa on December 13, 2011, 10:16:37 AM
Well i'm not about to start a debate, but while those 34's may be ASSEMBLED in Germany, I believe I have heard many to most of the parts are coming from China. I will even go out on a limb and say thier parts are coming from BAM who is making the Air Hawk.  A good example... I have a supplier in China that provides product for my company. When I was taking the tour, I was brought into a large manufacturing area that made a whole slew of various components for BMW!  The laws allow the "made in" statements to be made in the country where the major transformation takes place. So while something may say "made in XYZ" it may really not...

BAM doesn't make the Air Hawk, as far as I can tell no rws parts are made in China any longer, at one time some parts were made there but no longer...
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 13, 2011, 03:42:52 PM
Update... still no response from Umarex.  Sad.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: mikeiniowa on December 13, 2011, 10:20:16 PM
as you opened it up they will likely say no warranty....
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: steveiep on December 14, 2011, 03:22:31 PM
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/43075.htm (http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/43075.htm)
This is the seal I use in a B25 Thumbhole stock version.
It did need sizing down a fraction, but better than being too loose to start with.
I'm in the UK & know how good the Maccari seals are(also have a Small Apex in my B26 for example)and are cheap enough even after international shipping costs. So, for you "locals" they must be an absolute steal.
There was nothing wrong with my OEM seal, but as I was fitting a tune kit at the time it made sense to upgrade the seal at the same time.
12 months later & still going strong
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: SAADE on December 14, 2011, 03:27:02 PM
Shadow: Our fellow member noted that he "polished" everything? Isn't it true that the compression tube should be slightly rough even cross-hatched/ (maybe rougher than a 125 rms finish?)
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 14, 2011, 08:37:22 PM
look closer Saade.  Right after the ...

To hone is to do what you described in the chamber.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 16, 2011, 11:38:54 AM
Got the new seals from vortch yesterday. Will let everyone know how it goes.  I didnt know about you mike. Ill get you on the next one. Thanks for your comments. Are your seals different than the vortch ones?
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: mikeiniowa on December 16, 2011, 09:21:59 PM
I've found the factory seals yeald slightly high velocities in some rifles...
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 17, 2011, 07:05:37 PM
The tune & rebuild went great. I'll report back on if it fixed the accuracy issues. One thing i can say for certain is that the cocking and firing cycle are much improved. The firing cycle is as smooth as my NP guns now... solid "snick," and no twang.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: porkfrog on December 18, 2011, 11:27:03 AM
Was the seal the only part you replaced?
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 18, 2011, 03:49:49 PM
Yes, $11 and some elbow grease and its been converted into a good shooter.  I used to hate this gun. Now i love it.  Funny how work & accomplishment can make you change your mind.

The gun is one holing several types of pellets now, and is super smooth. Its amazing what a seal and a tune will do.  This was my first one. I couldnt believe how easy is was and what a difference it made. My "twang" is history... as is my shotgun!
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: porkfrog on December 18, 2011, 07:30:58 PM
Glad to Hear! I too got very satisfying results after tuning mine. I used a Tesla seal though instead.  Enjoy!
 I don't know about you, but my "twang" was so horrendous. The spring ends were so sharp, they were just digging in and "dang" near twisting the rifle out of my hands with every shot. I'm gonna go back in over the winter and replace the stock thrust washer on the trigger end. It's paper thin, and was looking beat up, but I was too impatient to get it back together..
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 18, 2011, 08:02:19 PM
thanks. It was really fun. Mine is paper thin too. Not sure what was causing the twang but it was terrible. All i did to the spring was sand the ends flat on glass with 400 grit paper. I lightly did the outside too. I mollied the washer so maybe it would last? Can i just drop anything in there as a replacement?  My spring was pretty dry... maybe that caused it too?  Or maybe polishing the tube helped too... i dont know? But its super slick and smooth now. Just a solid snick!
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: mikeiniowa on December 19, 2011, 08:11:54 AM
get the JM RWS 34 kit, I use them for tuned rifles if requested and they really work good. Some have used the Vortek 34 spring with good results also...
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: z28rod on December 20, 2011, 05:43:36 AM
microsalmo , you might want to take mikes advise, he has some experience with this stuff..
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 20, 2011, 07:12:20 AM
... about what? The thin washer? The gun is fixed now... and much improved too. Do I need the kit because something is going to break?  Im not sure what you want me to take his advice about? Thanks - Steve
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: mikeiniowa on December 20, 2011, 09:30:09 AM
Replace the washer with a hardened one but don't go to thick, some rifles won't cock with thick washers. The factory springs are good but if you want the very best out of the rifle replace with a JM spring kit....
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 20, 2011, 09:45:03 AM
got it. Thanks Mike.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: Bentong on December 20, 2011, 11:05:24 AM
Good thing you got it all sorted out. Don't it feel good being able to figure out to make it shoot the way you wanted it!
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 20, 2011, 01:29:31 PM
Its very fulfilling, yes... and a fun learning experience. Never would have guessed a bad seal could screw things up so bad for accuracy. Thanks GTA.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: daniel hagman on December 21, 2011, 06:29:05 PM
would you guys have me steer clear of the ruger airhawk or will the seal wear out on all these guns?     i was a bit surprise that the ruger is not made here in the usa.    i own ruger firearms and have been very satisfied.     i am new to airgunning and am in the process of buying my first nice gun if my sons do not come through at christams.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on December 21, 2011, 10:51:46 PM
The guts, fit & finish on the one I got a few months ago was very good.  The interior edges were just very sharp, so it tore up the seal during assembly.  The rifle is really quite wonderful.  If they made another one, I would be inclined to buy it.  For $108 at walmart, it's tough to beat.  The tune, which was quite simple to do made the gun feel much more expensive.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: porkfrog on December 22, 2011, 10:56:16 AM
would you guys have me steer clear of the ruger airhawk or will the seal wear out on all these guns?     i was a bit surprise that the ruger is not made here in the usa.    i own ruger firearms and have been very satisfied.     i am new to airgunning and am in the process of buying my first nice gun if my sons do not come through at christams.

Comparing the Air hawk to other guns in this price range, if your main concern is the seal, most other offerings will likely have same percentages of error. The ruger is fine out of the box, (a little rough while breaking in), but shoots well. It will really wake up with a tune. This gun has what I refer to as "good bones". For 100 bucks and a little elbow grease, you will wind up with a shooter that can compare to others at twice the cost. What drew me to the Air HAwk is that since its a clone of the RWS 34, replacement, and upgrade parts are abundant. Also the stock trigger is better than most other guns in price range. The barrel lock is ball detent, rather than chisel which you tend to see on many high end guns as well..  hope that helps..

AP 
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: Air Rifle Hunter on January 10, 2012, 06:49:10 PM
Does anyone know if there is an LDC that available that will help to quiet this gun down a little?
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on January 10, 2012, 07:47:46 PM
What is an LDC? Mine is as quiet as my npss and trail aw, after tue tune. No twang...just a smack of the piston and then the pellet.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: Air Rifle Hunter on January 10, 2012, 08:03:42 PM
What is an LDC? Mine is as quiet as my npss and trail aw, after tue tune. No twang...just a smack of the piston and then the pellet.

 An LDC is short for Lead Dust Collector. Basically it is similar to a muzzle brake except that it collects the lead dust as the pellets are fired. It also acts somewhat like a muzzle brake. Here in California, we can't own sound moderation devices, but I can put an LDC on the gun. If I can permanently attach a muzzle break to the gun, then it could have one. It just cannot be removable.

 I guess I should have phrased it this way, "Does someone knows if there is a muzzle brake that can be used with this air rifle (in California)." My Ruger BlackHawk seems to be just a little loud for my neighborhood and I would like to be able to use it for gophers and small pest birds instead of my .22 Benjamin Marauder. It's much louder than my Gamo Whisper .22 and my Benjamin Trail NPXL1100.

 Thanks for any help.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: Kailua on January 10, 2012, 09:23:53 PM
This a partial post from Crowpopper on his Disco
the Shroud is a Rpy Kasten Special  it is Full length and This thing makes the gun sound like a Gerble chewing a peanut!
Not sure if this will help.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: Air Rifle Hunter on January 10, 2012, 09:26:08 PM
This a partial post from Crowpopper on his Disco
the Shroud is a Rpy Kasten Special  it is Full length and This thing makes the gun sound like a Gerble chewing a peanut!
Not sure if this will help.


 Where exactly is the post located?
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: chaindrivecharlie on January 10, 2012, 11:09:40 PM
Hey ARH, heres a link.
http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/New_accessories_page.htm (http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/New_accessories_page.htm)
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: Air Rifle Hunter on January 10, 2012, 11:54:10 PM
Hey ARF, heres a link.
http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/New_accessories_page.htm (http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/New_accessories_page.htm)

Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: Kailua on January 11, 2012, 04:39:31 AM
You could send a personal message to Crowpopper.  He should know where he got his shroud from.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: microsalmo on January 17, 2012, 07:22:44 AM
Update: got the Ruger shooting .50" groups at 25 yards consistantly.  Now if only I could lighten the trigger pull.  The trigger pull is pulling it off target.
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: z28rod on January 17, 2012, 07:26:45 PM
Pyramid sells a RWS and a Beeman LDC'S or muzzle brakes for preaty cheap. one of them should fit your barrel, and they look real nice when installed. Here is the Beeman, you need to measure the outside diameter of the end of your barrel and make sure it fits. The one I bought was the RWS one but its for larger barrels than yours I think. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-ported-muzzlebrake-579-barrel-diameter?a=1128 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-ported-muzzlebrake-579-barrel-diameter?a=1128)
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/acc/BN-7127.jpg)
Title: Re: Ruger Air Hawk woes
Post by: chaindrivecharlie on January 18, 2012, 05:33:10 PM
the barrels on these rugers are very thick. I looked at the PA site and the RWS dust collecter looks right. But I would measure the barrel first. They, PA have some cool looking stuff.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-crow-mag-short-muzzlebrake?a=2965 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-crow-mag-short-muzzlebrake?a=2965)

cdc