GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Diana Airguns => Topic started by: WHITEFANG on December 08, 2011, 09:35:56 PM
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Here we go!!! As I have posted in another thread I am doing a tune on what I call my extra 350 to put my .177 12 land Pro Compact barrel on and do the tune to the .22 Pro Compact as well. I have ordered the JM drop in 350 MAG PRO SPRINGS. Having 3 of the RWS 350 Feuerkraft guns I have elected to us one for parts if I have to. After buying the .177 pro compact barrel and converting the .177 350 to the compact I am going farther into this Hobby. All guns are shooting great. So I took the stock .22 gun down tonight to start the overhaul. Just a walk in the park on the tear down of the complete gun. Usual roughness of the parts and the piston seal looked like you stock gun assembly. Piston seal looked like it had been laying out on the road. SHOT. Surprises me how all of these guns shoot as well and chrony out as they do out of the box with the seal looking like they all do. NICKS, CUTS METAL and so on.
So here are the questions:
1. Factory seal replacement or after market ( Like a dummy did not order any seals)
2. Hone the piston chamber or not
3. What all do I need to debur
4. Should I have just ordered a kit and bit the bullet.
I have a general ideal on the debur but would like the help to assure me of which way to go. I just thought I would leave the other 2 guns as they are and start with the extra. After buying the pro .177 barrel and then finding out the gun IMO needed the factory heavy muzzle brake I have invested a large amount of $$$ just in 2 items. That's why I say I can use the extra for parts and playing with. YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY. It has always cost me to learn.
So all you DIY PRO's help me out.
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since ya need a seal just bite bullet and get the Vortek kit and seal ;D
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Tuning-Kits/RWS350 (http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Tuning-Kits/RWS350)
I will bet after you try it you will buy another :P
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All ready got the JM springs coming. Yes I should have just ordered the kit. I'll get a seal from either UMAREX OR the JM and then on the next one get the Vortek kit and seal . I am willing to bet the other seals on the other 2 guns look the same. After looking I can tell what to hone out and I might as well give the piston chamber a light hone as well. Piston was the only thing that had any lube on it at all. Gun was bone dry.
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Get the seal from JM and get some buttons while your at it.
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Got all the parts to put the gun back together yesterday. I have done the deburr of the tube cocking slot and all other sharp stamped areas. All of the pin areas and the rail areas in the tube as well. Just did a light sanding of the recever and no work on the piston chamber area. Questions:
1. I assume I need to lightly lube the outside of spring guide that goes in the piston that the spring goes in
2. Tar the spring more so on the upper spring that goes in the guide
3. The rear guide is much tighter on the new spring so do I lightly sand and lube the guide as well.
4. Moly the piston seal on the outer sealing area
5. Lightly lube the outer piston ram area
6. Now the new spring is set and is much shorter than the factory spring. I don't quite understand the setting procedure. I guess the spring will uncoil from the set after cocking so how long till the spring is from the set position and utilizing its full strength
7. The spring guide in the piston is a bit loose. As you know this guide is swagged in 3 places to hold it in the piston so is it usual for these to be some what loose. I can tear down the other 350 and see if the same condition exist if I have to.
8. Also the area behind the piston seal has some roughness from what appears to be from the back and forth cocking and firing. Is this normal? I am going to smooth it out some but just enough to not cause any slack.
9. The ends of the new spring is not what I would call polished. Much better looking than the factory so do I need to polish them out
Please someone tell me the rights and wrongs for this RWS 350. I feel that I am going the right direction but trust the FORUM's experience.
The .22 pro compack is next after I see how this turns out
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OK I'll give you my 2ct first off you don't polish the spring guide! you want that to fit as tight as possible! and yes you want to polish the spring ends, and when you lube the spring you want to put moly on the ends of the spring! and put the other lube on the body of the spring length ways, string it on so it looks like a spider webs and don't put it on to heavy a little go's along way! the scuffing on the piston tells me its a little lose so you might want to get some JM old school buttons to put on the piston! :P
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since ya need a seal just bite bullet and get the Vortek kit and seal ;D
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Tuning-Kits/RWS350 (http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Tuning-Kits/RWS350)
I will bet after you try it you will buy another :P
What behaviour does the Vortek kit provide? I only have 40 pellets through mine at the moment it seems quite good out of the box for a magnum. The boxed CPH's are in the 920's currently. I would not mind loosing some velocity for easier cocking though I was surprised it wasn't as bad as I had anticipated.
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ALRIGHT here we go: This will give all of YOU a good laugh. I have completed the job and the gun is shooting after my 2 ND attempt. Yes that's what I said. The safety is a trick and that's why they say don't remove it. Been there done that but I got that figured out now. Got the gun together but was having problems compressing the spring even with my spring compressor. Didn't make sense due to the spring being set and shorter. OH well got it together with some effort. Now for the moment of truth. Out I go and load up the gun and bloop!! Yes bloop not bang!!! Tried a couple more times and the same. :-\ :'( :o :( So back to the bench. Tore the thing down thinking the worst. Pull the piston out with not much effort and the seal looked just like it did out of the box. What is going on I think. So I go over everthing and find nothing. Looked down the piston chamber and low and behold a piece of my rag had come off when I cleaned it the other nigh and lodged in the upper chamber. I had washed the chamber out with hot water and dawn and put a small bit of silicone chamber oil on the rag to make sure it did not rust. WHAT A SURPRIZE. Gun up and running. :o
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Install on the 350 .22 pro was a cake walk. Seal looked new and this gun was some what lubed. Chrony the thing before and after and after 25 shots back as it was. I realize that I still have the more molly on the piston seal and the tar. I don't thing these springs will increase the fps. They are drop in replacement springs that are heavier duty. I do believe that the biggest part of the twang is gone. Since they were set springs I still would like to know how long it takes for the springs to set in with the gun or do they not do that. Not ever been around this term. I know the coils are larger in dia. which would make them stronger and that is some of the difference of the length. Please correct me or give me a clue if I am on the right direction.
On the 350 .177 I think I may have lost 10-20 fps but now that one has the new seal and the tar and the molly. I dont see that the plugged chamber hurt the spring.
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The term set means this, the spring is set and to do this is to compress the spring to its maximun stack height that's what sets the spring, an un set spring will be longer until set! you can install an un set spring in a gun and the first time you cock it it will set! theirs allot more to this than meets the eye! this is just to give you a basic idea of what your wanting to know! :P
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Only other thing i do is polish the piston weight. It touches the spring and piston so you want it to slide nice and smooth also. Everything you can do to prevent spring torque from being transfered to the gun will help accuracy.
Loosing 20 fps really is no big deal. It equals out to just under 3/4 of a fpe. If you want that small amount of velocity back you can add washers between the piston and piston weight. Just make sure you polish them also. Remember though your spring will have more stress because its trying to push more weight and it could increase felt recoil due to having more weight coming to an abrupt stop. I lost about 20-30 fps with the vortek kits but the smoothness was well worth it. Smoth is accurate and accuracy kills.
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Thanks MARK 66!!! This gives me a window to look out of. Both guns have not lost their accuracy. Took the .177 apart again to see how the spring and all looked and as I THOUGHT THE PISTON SEAL WAS OVER LUBED DUE TO MY LAST ATTEMPT. Got that all cleaned up and back together.
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I do think that these guns have smoothed out some. They shoot so hard anyway with the power they have it's hard to tell. The Wather Falcon, even with the NP shots hard on both ends. Both of these brands of guns are SLAMMERS. Recoil out the butt!!!!
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say , whitefang thanks for the detailed description of the tune. is there a source or pamphlet that walks one through the steps for a successful tune? i have always taken apart, cleaned and oiled my firearms but the inner workings of the airgun are very different. thanks for any information or advice you can give me
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since ya need a seal just bite bullet and get the Vortek kit and seal ;D
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Tuning-Kits/RWS350 (http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/Tuning-Kits/RWS350)
I will bet after you try it you will buy another :P
x2 on that vortek kit
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On the install of the vortek PG2 DO YOU LEAVE THE PISTON WEIGHT in the piston. How much difference is the vortek seal vs factory seal? Got the kit today but have not ordered the JM kit yet. I am ordering it next week.
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yep the instructions tell you for max power install the washers back in the piston,on my r.a.m clone of the 350,only 1 washer would work or it would not catch the seer,with 2,yours could be different,good luck and have fun,,, ;D oh and the vortek seal seems to be more flexible,and a bit thicker,my factory seal had a gouge in it.so i replaced it with the vortek seal.
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off to the garage for the experiment thanks
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I always leave the weight in the piston.
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Well that was a piece of cake since I had already done the drop in spring and lube and seal. I put this one in the .177 pro conversion without the vortek seal. Fired some shots to check out the install and then later fired some more. Gun feels good with no twang. Gun is still dead on and still a handful. Put it on the chron and it is shooting and average out of 10 shots 970 fps with the DISCOVERY HP 10.5s. This only the beginning of the #s. The kit has not slowed it down. I am ordering the JM ZRT kit and the SOFT KIT for the other 2 350s. I can at least compare the 2 .177s even though it will not be a true comparison since one is the compack barrel vs the standard. Man this is FUN!!!!
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yes it is a lot of fun,,also there was a post a while back where someone did a comparison test between the vortek kit and the maccari kit on 2 350 ,s and the vortek was more powerful and smoother, ;D glad all went ok.
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This thing is still a powerhouse but taming down. Done for the day. Smooth to cock and dead own still and NO twang. Still loud at this speed. Very noticeable down stream from the muzzle direction.